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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Joseph Riels on April 25, 2020, 04:22:19 pm

Title: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Joseph Riels on April 25, 2020, 04:22:19 pm
I know Clair has a long history and the S 4 speaker will go down in history as one of the best in the industry. I'm very curious about another model of Clair speaker called the C 4. I have searched the interwebs without much luck.

Does anyone here have information concerning the Clair C 4 and willing to share?

Thanks!
Title: Posting Rules
Post by: Mac Kerr on April 25, 2020, 04:49:38 pm
I know Clair has a long history and the S 4 speaker will go down in history as one of the best in the industry. I'm very curious about another model of Clair speaker called the C 4. I have searched the interwebs without much luck.

Does anyone here have information concerning the Clair C 4 and willing to share?

Thanks!

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
admin
Title: Re: Posting Rules
Post by: Joseph Riels on April 25, 2020, 08:22:18 pm
Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
admin

So sorry. Not the first time I didn't read the rules....
Thanks for being patient with the FNG.
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 25, 2020, 11:21:07 pm
I'm having a hard time placing a Clair C4.  d&b from Germany had a C4 top box in their now-discontinued C series.
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Peter Morris on April 26, 2020, 05:22:34 am
I'm having a hard time placing a Clair C4.  d&b from Germany had a C4 top box in their now-discontinued C series.

same here ... S4 & R4 Clair , C4 D&B
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on April 26, 2020, 06:54:34 am
I'm having a hard time placing a Clair C4.  d&b from Germany had a C4 top box in their now-discontinued C series.


Hill sound had a M4. I heard them out with AC/DC back in 1985 or so.
https://youtu.be/M5PqvxtHC1s?t=311

Douglas R. Allen

Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Steve-White on April 26, 2020, 11:09:37 am

Hill sound had a M4. I heard them out with AC/DC back in 1985 or so.
https://youtu.be/M5PqvxtHC1s?t=311

Douglas R. Allen

Great video.
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Joseph Riels on April 26, 2020, 11:38:22 am
I'm having a hard time placing a Clair C4.  d&b from Germany had a C4 top box in their now-discontinued C series.

I reached out to Clair directly. Got my fingers crossed that they will respond.

As I understand the C4 was like a bigger version of the S4. I have only one picture and it is labeled as a Clair Brothers C4. If I can figure out how to post it I will give it a try.
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: brian maddox on April 26, 2020, 12:11:38 pm

Hill sound had a M4. I heard them out with AC/DC back in 1985 or so.
https://youtu.be/M5PqvxtHC1s?t=311

Douglas R. Allen

Great Video.  Heard my friend Mike Scarfe's name mentioned in there.  Good stuff!
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Art Welter on April 26, 2020, 02:19:11 pm
I reached out to Clair directly. Got my fingers crossed that they will respond.

As I understand the C4 was like a bigger version of the S4. I have only one picture and it is labeled as a Clair Brothers C4. If I can figure out how to post it I will give it a try.
Joseph,

The S4 was all front loaded, originally 440 pounds, "lightened up" in the mid 1980s by replacing the back panel with a foam core composite, dropping the weight to around 400 pounds. Dimensions were 45x 45 x 22.5 inches, standard truck pack integers.

As I recall, the C4 was developed sometime in the late 1980's. I got to see it visiting the Steve Miller tour rehearsals at the Met Sports arena in Bloomington, Minnesota. Steve Wiese, then Steve Miller's sound engineer (and recording engineer for Born 2B Blue) had chose to use it over the S4, as it had better pattern control.

The C4 had horn loaded low mid cone drivers, requiring the cabinet to be deeper, taller and far heavier than the S4. My recollection of the dimensions would be around 67.5 x 45 x 30, weight in the 600 pound range. The large size and weight made it unpopular for most applications, there probably was only one arena system made, and it didn't go out much.

The C4 introduction was not long before the shift to line arrays started, so had a relatively short history.

Art


Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Joseph Riels on April 26, 2020, 04:46:09 pm
I reached out to Clair directly. Got my fingers crossed that they will respond.

As I understand the C4 was like a bigger version of the S4. I have only one picture and it is labeled as a Clair Brothers C4. If I can figure out how to post it I will give it a try.

https://clairusedgear.com/collections/historical-photos/products/clair-historical-photo-3 (https://clairusedgear.com/collections/historical-photos/products/clair-historical-photo-3)
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Joseph Riels on April 26, 2020, 04:48:51 pm
Joseph,

The S4 was all front loaded, originally 440 pounds, "lightened up" in the mid 1980s by replacing the back panel with a foam core composite, dropping the weight to around 400 pounds. Dimensions were 45x 45 x 22.5 inches, standard truck pack integers.

As I recall, the C4 was developed sometime in the late 1980's. I got to see it visiting the Steve Miller tour rehearsals at the Met Sports arena in Bloomington, Minnesota. Steve Wiese, then Steve Miller's sound engineer (and recording engineer for Born 2B Blue) had chose to use it over the S4, as it had better pattern control.

The C4 had horn loaded low mid cone drivers, requiring the cabinet to be deeper, taller and far heavier than the S4. My recollection of the dimensions would be around 67.5 x 45 x 30, weight in the 600 pound range. The large size and weight made it unpopular for most applications, there probably was only one arena system made, and it didn't go out much.

The C4 introduction was not long before the shift to line arrays started, so had a relatively short history.

Art


Art,

Thank you so much for the information! I hope I posted a link to the Clair site where I found my one and only pic. Please check it out and let me know what you think.

Joe
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Matthew Knischewsky on April 26, 2020, 10:21:03 pm
Great Video.  Heard my friend Mike Scarfe's name mentioned in there.  Good stuff!

The video is a bit of entertainment, it's interesting to hear Malcom talk about the early days of his company, the coming of age of large festivals and stadium gigs. However... as someone who maintained a fair quantity of Hill Audio equipment WELL past it's best before date and into the modern era I can attest that "accuracy" was and is not the Hill system's strong suit. That quality would be it's ability to NOT DIE and force the owner to buy something else!
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Scott Holtzman on April 27, 2020, 02:18:24 am
I reached out to Clair directly. Got my fingers crossed that they will respond.

As I understand the C4 was like a bigger version of the S4. I have only one picture and it is labeled as a Clair Brothers C4. If I can figure out how to post it I will give it a try.


The best way to do this is to go to imgbb.com and upload the image. No account is required.  After uploading choose "bbcode fully linked".  A small bit of code will be generated with a button next to it that copies that code to the clipboard.  Paste that code into your message here on profound web.  The picture will be displayed in your post in the original resolution. 



Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: gordonmcgregor on April 27, 2020, 05:39:43 am
The video is a bit of entertainment, it's interesting to hear Malcom talk about the early days of his company, the coming of age of large festivals and stadium gigs. However... as someone who maintained a fair quantity of Hill Audio equipment WELL past it's best before date and into the modern era I can attest that "accuracy" was and is not the Hill system's strong suit. That quality would be it's ability to NOT DIE and force the owner to buy something else!
It was like that when it was new as well, however it was a relatively neat package and it did work straight out of the box. Chameleon amps not so much  >:(. The Hill desks were an interesting thing as well especially the EQ's though they had some interesting failure modes especially once they got a bit older.
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Art Welter on April 27, 2020, 01:13:15 pm

Art,

Thank you so much for the information! I hope I posted a link to the Clair site where I found my one and only pic. Please check it out and let me know what you think.

Joe
Joe,

From that picture, appears my recollections about the size are off, looks like the C4 is 57" tall. The depth is hard to tell from the photo, but the fork lift skids on the bottom give an indication of the weight...

Art
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Mike Caldwell on April 27, 2020, 03:46:09 pm
Be curious to see/hear what the pictured C4 rig would be like with some modern DSP processing applied.
And they find a tour that wants to carry and rig 17,000lbs of speakers in just 28 boxes! 
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Chris Hindle on April 27, 2020, 05:18:48 pm
Be curious to see/hear what the pictured C4 rig would be like with some modern DSP processing applied.
And they find a tour that wants to carry and rig 17,000lbs of speakers in just 28 boxes!
With everything else up in the air today, is there even weight allowance for a 8-1/2 TON PA?
And ya, who would want to carry it....
Chris.
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on April 28, 2020, 12:46:46 am
With everything else up in the air today, is there even weight allowance for a 8-1/2 TON PA?
And ya, who would want to carry it....
Chris.

To put it into perspective, a 48 box Meyer M3D system is heavier without subs.

Even today, most of the "big boys big linearray box" is in the 100-130 kg range.
So if we go for 115 kg a box, its 5520kg for 48 tops.
A lot of shows fly subs as well, they are around 80-140 kg. Again, targeting 36 subs of 110kgs is 3960kg.

That's a total of 9480kgs of speakers.

Granted, a modern system breaks down to smaller pieces, but if you put something like d&b SL-Sub 3 high on a dolly, it's 414kgs not including the dolly.
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Chris Hindle on April 28, 2020, 08:16:31 am
To put it into perspective, a 48 box Meyer M3D system is heavier without subs.

Even today, most of the "big boys big linearray box" is in the 100-130 kg range.
So if we go for 115 kg a box, its 5520kg for 48 tops.
A lot of shows fly subs as well, they are around 80-140 kg. Again, targeting 36 subs of 110kgs is 3960kg.

That's a total of 9480kgs of speakers.

Granted, a modern system breaks down to smaller pieces, but if you put something like d&b SL-Sub 3 high on a dolly, it's 414kgs not including the dolly.

Sorry Helge, I didn't crunch the numbers.
My back hurts just thinking of S-4's, never mind something bigger/heavier.
Thanks for the Reality Check.
Chris.
Title: Re: Clair Brothers C 4 Long throw speaker system
Post by: Mike Caldwell on April 28, 2020, 03:23:14 pm
The relative small number of boxes versus weight is what I was commenting on.
Lets not forget the weight of the bumper as well.