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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Mal Brown on February 06, 2020, 02:30:50 pm

Title: rigging
Post by: Mal Brown on February 06, 2020, 02:30:50 pm
One of the outdoor venues I work is  installing a roof.  Haven't seen the drawings or plans.  The architect tells me at he'll have pipe across the top front for lighting fixture attachment.  Supposedly 500 lbs load per point.

So I want to hoist say 9m F33 Global truss with 8 or so fixtures.  A mix of led pars and Mid sized movers.  Call it 150 lbs on the high side after power disto.

from a work flow standpoint, I would like to work on lights at chest height and dhoist the assembled truss and fixtures into place.  I would also install the hoists in position and secure them place in a theft proof manner at the start of the weekly series in August and put them out in Sept.  This is a public space with no security.

so, I'll need 2 hoists, chain buckets and and the security locking arrangements.  I am visiting pole an hook gizmo to retrieve / store the chain week to week.

Is a safety factor of 10, meaning 1500 lbs appropriate  or over kill ?
Any preferred vendors for this part  stuff ?
any recommendations on the locking aspect ?

Thanks!
Title: Re: rigging
Post by: Scott Holtzman on February 06, 2020, 09:31:16 pm
One of the outdoor venues I work is  installing a roof.  Haven't seen the drawings or plans.  The architect tells me at he'll have pipe across the top front for lighting fixture attachment.  Supposedly 500 lbs load per point.

So I want to hoist say 9m F33 Global truss with 8 or so fixtures.  A mix of led pars and Mid sized movers.  Call it 150 lbs on the high side after power disto.

from a work flow standpoint, I would like to work on lights at chest height and dhoist the assembled truss and fixtures into place.  I would also install the hoists in position and secure them place in a theft proof manner at the start of the weekly series in August and put them out in Sept.  This is a public space with no security.

so, I'll need 2 hoists, chain buckets and and the security locking arrangements.  I am visiting pole an hook gizmo to retrieve / store the chain week to week.

Is a safety factor of 10, meaning 1500 lbs appropriate  or over kill ?
Any preferred vendors for this part  stuff ?
any recommendations on the locking aspect ?

Thanks!


Not sure what you mean pole and hook gizmo.  You could just use a chain fall to save money.  CM Lodestar is the leader in this space.  There are other brands but you want the CM.  With just two lift points you can simply drop the pickle from the motor to lift, you can also get a motor controller if you wish.  They are available in single and three phase versions.





Title: Re: rigging
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 06, 2020, 11:33:12 pm

Not sure what you mean pole and hook gizmo.  You could just use a chain fall to save money.  CM Lodestar is the leader in this space.  There are other brands but you want the CM.  With just two lift points you can simply drop the pickle from the motor to lift, you can also get a motor controller if you wish.  They are available in single and three phase versions.
I think he's talking about manual chain hoists and using the hook on a pole to put the chain up in a bag and to retrieve it, rather than using a lift or tall ladder.
Title: Re: rigging
Post by: Mal Brown on February 07, 2020, 01:05:08 am
yep.  That has been my plan. 
Title: Re: rigging
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on February 07, 2020, 01:54:14 am
For security and safety, GAC back-up with a proper shackle (for strength) and a lock throught the eyes would probably do it. You will need a ladder or a lift for the initial focus anyway. (I can't imagine trying to fix bounce focusing with manual chain falls. Ick.). You could strike the chain hoists and just let the truss be deadhung, too. 
Title: Re: rigging
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 07, 2020, 03:16:19 am
I would leave NOTHING outside.  For security (if you can get the chain down, so can a thief) and weather protection (does the wind blow when it rains, even a little?).  At the very least some meth head will come by and cut down wiring for scrap copper sale.

A new-ish outdoor venue here has 24/7 surveillance and they've watched various "rough camping" people try to steal chairs, stools, an extension cord left on the stage, and I think they tried to take a picnic table.  No production equipment is left out unless there is a security guard on the stage overnight and even then I wouldn't want my shop's stuff out.

How much labor must be saved to replace the gear you fly?
Title: Re: rigging
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on February 07, 2020, 05:15:21 am
Get yourself some prerig dollies and electric chain motors.
Prerig everything and roll it out of the truck, assemble on site and hoist it up in the air.

Easy and safer than having equipment outdoors for weeks.
Title: Re: rigging
Post by: Taylor Hall on February 07, 2020, 08:39:18 am
Get yourself some prerig dollies and electric chain motors.
Prerig everything and roll it out of the truck, assemble on site and hoist it up in the air.

Easy and safer than having equipment outdoors for weeks.
This. We made up a similar lighting rig for a series of 'screen on the green' events that also included a live band in the hours leading up to full darkness. It was a trivial matter to roll everything in and out, and easily saved us an hour of setup time.
Title: Re: rigging
Post by: Dave Pluke on February 07, 2020, 09:43:41 am
from a work flow standpoint, I would like to work on lights at chest height and dhoist the assembled truss and fixtures into place.  I would also install the hoists in position and secure them place in a theft proof manner at the start of the weekly series in August and put them out in Sept.  This is a public space with no security.

Plenty of good thoughts so far.  Are you using IP65 fixtures or risking rain damage?

What is the trim height of the proposed truss and could it be accessed by scissors lift for focusing?  If it were my rig, and assuming the truss would not be reachable once flown, I would either disconnect all cabling or tuck it up into the truss at the end of each show.

Dave
Title: Re: rigging
Post by: Mal Brown on February 07, 2020, 10:42:41 am
13 to 15 feet.  only the hoists would be left in my initial thoughts. I'm hoping for ip65 on a limited selection of fixtures by the onset of the series. The rest would be undercover.

My truss is pre rigged wiring and signal wise.  currently, we bring it out, assemble it to length.  get it up on duratruss stands and attach fixtures.  Test and crank it up.   I was envisioning something similar with this except chain hoists, not stands.

I think what I'm reading says we are going up the ladder each event regardless.  Backup safety chain...  The ladder trips were a part of what I was trying to avoid.  I see each of those as a risk...

Now that I am a knee biter I'm beginning to wonder if I should have stayed an ankle biter ;-)
Title: Re: rigging
Post by: Peter Kowalczyk on February 07, 2020, 04:26:43 pm
Now that I am a knee biter I'm beginning to wonder if I should have stayed an ankle biter ;-)

 ;D ;D ;D

What happens when you move beyond the knees?  I guess thats when it really starts to get your competition's attention !! 

... Following this post, I've been considering rigging options for my concert-in-the-park series this summer.  The Parks and Rec District is talking about installing a roof, like the OP's situation, within the next few years.  For now I'd be looking at crank stands I suppose.  Maybe better to just wait? 
Title: Re: rigging
Post by: Mal Brown on February 07, 2020, 09:14:39 pm
;D ;D ;D

What happens when you move beyond the knees?  I guess thats when it really starts to get your competition's attention !! 

... Following this post, I've been considering rigging options for my concert-in-the-park series this summer.  The Parks and Rec District is talking about installing a roof, like the OP's situation, within the next few years.  For now I'd be looking at crank stands I suppose.  Maybe better to just wait?

If you are going truss a set of the duratruss 3900L are great stands....  Mine came from Mike Pyle here.  The apron on this venue is very short so I can't really get out on front with crank stands.  If i could I would add another set like now...