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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => AC Power and Grounding => Topic started by: Kevin Graf on January 09, 2020, 01:29:45 pm

Title: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Kevin Graf on January 09, 2020, 01:29:45 pm
Crazy Audiophile Ground System
I just saw this in an audiophile forum.

I also do something similar with the Verastarr AC Distro block Its a passive power strip with 3 x Furutech NCF R receptacles. I use mineral Goo as well, Quartz, Tourmaline and 4 others in a high performance compound. Its faraday shielded inside and has a ground lug on its chassis The wiring scheme inside uses pure solid silver bussbars that make a home run to every individual socket, with other pathways to make sure current delivery is fully equalized, NCF R IEC inlet as well and Ive run my Rig AC as a feed off the meter box outside the house to a secondary panel in my listening room closet wall, and Ive run 4 separate 8 foot long high purity 101 OFHC solid copper rods plated in pure silver just on the outside of the wall where the rig sits , so the actual Rods are no more than 12 feet from the rig. I have them paired off and isolated , so 2 and 2 rods, one pair for safety or chassis ground and the other pair for signal ground. all the feeds out of the panel are 10AWG Silver plated copper in PTFE and every feed has its live and Neutral twisted and inside conduit pipe and beside it is the ground wire in its own conduit pipe. I am about to test with dual massive 7Kva Isolation transformers that came out of Bel Labs in New Jersey . I will most likely put them behind the main diuplex receptacles feeding the rig as ive got 6 circuits on that front wall behind the rack. 4 of them are 240V because I like to run my mono amplifiers at 240V for more efficient lower current operation and ultimately balanced AC. 2 receptacles are 20A for everything else on the rig split in to dual Verastarr AC Power Distro blocks, one for digital gear one for analog.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Taylor Hall on January 09, 2020, 02:35:27 pm
Then there's all the people in Japan having their own personal utility poles installed to get cleaner power from the street and not having to settle for "dirty" shared power.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on January 09, 2020, 02:56:14 pm
Kinda makes you wonder how the studios (producing the source material) have limped along with dirty power and shared grounds for so long.

I guess if it makes the individual happy, whatever. "Fools and their money ...."
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 09, 2020, 03:15:28 pm
audiophool (pronounced fool)...

JR
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: frank kayser on January 10, 2020, 12:19:05 am
audiophool (pronounced fool)...

JR


Well, at least they're having fun, and putting money into the economy.  As long as they're not spec'ing any of my jobs...
frank
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Steve M Smith on January 10, 2020, 05:31:29 am
Kinda makes you wonder how the studios (producing the source material) have limped along with dirty power and shared grounds for so long.
With ordinary tin/lead plated PCBs, standard tin plated connectors and normal interconnecting cables.

It's easier to just buy a few of these... https://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-design-powerslave-marble-statement-power-center/ (https://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-design-powerslave-marble-statement-power-center/)


Steve.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Mike Caldwell on January 10, 2020, 07:51:39 am
With ordinary tin/lead plated PCBs, standard tin plated connectors and normal interconnecting cables.

It's easier to just buy a few of these... https://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-design-powerslave-marble-statement-power-center/ (https://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-design-powerslave-marble-statement-power-center/)


Steve.

I actually like the looks of the Powerslave Acrylic version for only $10,899 and with the money saved there I could put that towards their $18,500 two meter long speaker cables.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Jean-Pierre Coetzee on January 10, 2020, 07:52:54 am
With ordinary tin/lead plated PCBs, standard tin plated connectors and normal interconnecting cables.

It's easier to just buy a few of these... https://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-design-powerslave-marble-statement-power-center/ (https://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-design-powerslave-marble-statement-power-center/)


Steve.

I don't know if I'm more scared that that exists or that is costs that much money.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Steve-White on January 10, 2020, 11:26:49 am

Well, at least they're having fun, and putting money into the economy.  As long as they're not spec'ing any of my jobs...
frank

True enough - never really looked at it that way - let 'em have their fun.  :)
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 10, 2020, 11:34:10 am
I don't know if I'm more scared that that exists or that is costs that much money.
It is a typical marketing technique, especially for audiophool products. The easily led ASSume it must be good if it is very expensive.

JR
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Dave Garoutte on January 10, 2020, 12:17:15 pm
With ordinary tin/lead plated PCBs, standard tin plated connectors and normal interconnecting cables.

It's easier to just buy a few of these... https://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-design-powerslave-marble-statement-power-center/ (https://trueaudiophile.com/hb-cable-design-powerslave-marble-statement-power-center/)


Steve.

In the video, they spend more time on the looks than the technical aspects.  Oooo, bevels!
But it does have cork to damp the vibrations. ::)
I think the video makes it clear that this is about appearances.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 10, 2020, 12:48:06 pm
In the video, they spend more time on the looks than the technical aspects.  Oooo, bevels!
But it does have cork to damp the vibrations. ::)
I think the video makes it clear that this is about appearances.

What it should make clear, to any person with a thinking mind, is that this is utter bullshit.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Scott Holtzman on January 10, 2020, 03:47:46 pm
What it should make clear, to any person with a thinking mind, is that this is utter bullshit.


You ever read a power cable review in what they pass off as serious audiophile journals?  It's laughable.  Some studio geeks locally have bought into the cable thing which makes me nuts.  How can you be a sound engineer and believe that some esoteric cable improves sound?



Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: John L Nobile on January 10, 2020, 04:19:27 pm
If they spend 18k on a power bar, 12k on 2 cables, they'll hear an improvement. But it's hard to describe cause it's on a molecular level. And an alternate reality.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Steve-White on January 10, 2020, 05:25:45 pm
If they spend 18k on a power bar, 12k on 2 cables, they'll hear an improvement. But it's hard to describe cause it's on a molecular level. And an alternate reality.

More a psyhic (psychotic) thing.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Ned Ward on January 10, 2020, 08:26:04 pm
I smell a business opportunity. Use terms like "4K Sound. Add fancy sleeves to power cables to make them look better, but also block harmful gamma rays, which can make the music sound angry. Tubes with only the heater pins hooked up - the signal "passes by" the tube to be "warmed up" physically, but never in the circuit.

As PT Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Steve-White on January 11, 2020, 10:42:15 am
I smell a business opportunity. Use terms like "4K Sound. Add fancy sleeves to power cables to make them look better, but also block harmful gamma rays, which can make the music sound angry. Tubes with only the heater pins hooked up - the signal "passes by" the tube to be "warmed up" physically, but never in the circuit.

As PT Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute.

Don't forget "Green" & "Eco"...
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 11, 2020, 10:49:42 am

You ever read a power cable review in what they pass off as serious audiophile journals?  It's laughable.  Some studio geeks locally have bought into the cable thing which makes me nuts.  How can you be a sound engineer and believe that some esoteric cable improves sound?
I debunked the voodoo speaker wire whohah in my Audio Mythology column back in the 80s. As I recall there was a serious treatment in the AES journal back then quantifying and debunking funny speaker wire.

If you can hear a difference from changing a line cord either it was a faulty line cord, or incompetent product design.

Phools and their money will always be a target for snake oil merchants.

JR
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Taylor Hall on January 11, 2020, 03:18:28 pm
I smell a business opportunity. Use terms like "4K Sound. Add fancy sleeves to power cables to make them look better, but also block harmful gamma rays, which can make the music sound angry. Tubes with only the heater pins hooked up - the signal "passes by" the tube to be "warmed up" physically, but never in the circuit.

As PT Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute.
There was a "hybrid" tube amp I saw ages ago that claimed to do just that. The output signal wires were coiled around the tubes in order to warm them. So I guess that bit of marketing speak wasn't totally false in their case?
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Mike Sokol on January 28, 2020, 07:20:17 am
Don't forget "Green" & "Eco"...

I'm getting ready to do some demonstrations for the RV industry with solar panels, Lithium-Iron storage batteries and a 3,000 watt pure-sine inverter, and offered to power a live music stage from this setup at a big RV show as a promotion for the products. One of the promoters got really excited because I would be running the stage from "clean" solar power, and not that "dirty" petrochemical power. Go figure...
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Chris Hindle on January 28, 2020, 09:13:08 am
I'm getting ready to do some demonstrations for the RV industry with solar panels, Lithium-Iron storage batteries and a 3,000 watt pure-sine inverter, and offered to power a live music stage from this setup at a big RV show as a promotion for the products. One of the promoters got really excited because I would be running the stage from "clean" solar power, and not that "dirty" petrochemical power. Go figure...

I'll bet mining, processing, and disposing of lithium is real "environmentally friendly" too...... ::)
Chris.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 28, 2020, 10:20:15 am
I'll bet mining, processing, and disposing of lithium is real "environmentally friendly" too...... ::)
Chris.

Yeah, and the manufacturing of photo-voltaic panels is a "clean" industry in China, I'm sure....  :o
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 28, 2020, 10:45:49 am
Yeah, and the manufacturing of photo-voltaic panels is a "clean" industry in China, I'm sure....  :o
recycling old solar panels will be a big industry in a couple decades... not very clean either.

JR
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Dave Garoutte on January 28, 2020, 12:10:49 pm
I debunked the voodoo speaker wire whohah in my Audio Mythology column back in the 80s. As I recall there was a serious treatment in the AES journal back then quantifying and debunking funny speaker wire.

If you can hear a difference from changing a line cord either it was a faulty line cord, or incompetent product design.

Phools and their money will always be a target for snake oil merchants.

JR

I remember seeing a demo when Monster cables first came out. (70s?)
It compare a spool of 100' of 24(?) gage car speaker wire to like 10' of 12 gage monster, into a couple of car speakers.
You A/B-ed them with a switch.
Gosh, the crappy car speaker wire sounded really thin!  Monster must be magic!!!!!
Of course it cost 50 times what the same zip cord cost at the hardware store.
But it was effective, it definitely launched Monster.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on January 28, 2020, 12:33:35 pm
I remember seeing a demo when Monster cables first came out. (70s?)
It compare a spool of 100' of 24 gage car speaker wire to like 10' of 12 gage monster, into a couple of car speakers.
You A/B-ed them with a switch.
Gosh, the crappy car speaker wire sounded really thin!  Monster must be magic!!!!!
Of course it cost 50 times what the same zip cord cost at the hardware store.
But it was effective, it definitely launched Monster.
I don't think I have ever seen 24ga speaker wire... perhaps inside ear buds or high z cans.

Inside my drum tuner I am using a few inches of 20ga wire connecting two 8 ohm speakers wired in series (16ohm) and driven with roughly 1W....

===

I recall an interesting exchange on this very forum with another long time member who claimed the superiority of some exotic speaker wire... After inspecting his specific claims we resolved that the combination of his relatively high impedance speaker wire, and the changing impedance with frequency of his loudspeakers, explained a possibly audible modest frequency response shift.

When comparing expensive funny wire to heavier gauge zip cord, any perceived sonic difference is influenced by expectation bias as the more expensive option being the better sounding. I was able to bring this forum member in for a safe and logical landing but this is exhausting across the mass market where millions of dollars in advertising creates unrealistic expectations.

I used to write an audio mythology column and even those old myths I squashed last century can rise again.... Creating a situation like Sisyphus rolling that rock up the hill, again and again. 

JR
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Tim Weaver on January 28, 2020, 01:43:34 pm
Audiofileism is what happens when the size of your dork is inversely proportional to the thickness of your wallet.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 28, 2020, 03:05:07 pm
I don't think I have ever seen 24ga speaker wire... perhaps inside ear buds or high z cans.

Inside my drum tuner I am using a few inches of 20ga wire connecting two 8 ohm speakers wired in series (16ohm) and driven with roughly 1W....

===

I recall an interesting exchange on this very forum with another long time member who claimed the superiority of some exotic speaker wire... After inspecting his specific claims we resolved that the combination of his relatively high impedance speaker wire, and the changing impedance with frequency of his loudspeakers, explained a possibly audible modest frequency response shift.

When comparing expensive funny wire to heavier gauge zip cord, any perceived sonic difference is influenced by expectation bias as the more expensive option being the better sounding. I was able to bring this forum member in for a safe and logical landing but this is exhausting across the mass market where millions of dollars in advertising creates unrealistic expectations.

I used to write an audio mythology column and even those old myths I squashed last century can rise again.... Creating a situation like Sisyphus rolling that rock up the hill, again and again. 

JR

It wasn't me but I recall making popcorn and watching your guided debunking on the forum.  I might have stirred the pot a bit... ;)

Copper is copper, and had I known 40 years ago what I know now, I'd have purchased stock in a copper mine.  ;D
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Dave Garoutte on January 28, 2020, 07:21:40 pm
It wasn't me but I recall making popcorn and watching your guided debunking on the forum.  I might have stirred the pot a bit... ;)

Copper is copper, and had I known 40 years ago what I know now, I'd have purchased stock in a copper mine.  ;D

Hopefully, a high purity, deoxidized, electro-aligned, magic copper mine. :o

JR, I added a question mark.  It was definitely small gage.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Keith Broughton on January 29, 2020, 05:29:01 am
Just wait...we will soon get wire made in zero gravity from the ISS !
Those chumps that buy it will help finance space exploration ;D ;D
The Blue Danube will never sound better. ;)
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Dave Garoutte on January 29, 2020, 12:56:55 pm
Just wait...we will soon get wire made in zero gravity from the ISS !
Those chumps that buy it will help finance space exploration ;D ;D
The Blue Danube will never sound better. ;)

Niiiiice!  Ba da da da dum, tum tum, tum tum... ;)
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on January 29, 2020, 02:28:24 pm
recycling old solar panels will be a big industry in a couple decades... not very clean either.

As it is, they're now landfilling the blades from windmills that have been upgraded -- because either they can't or it's not cost effective to recycle the fiberglass/resin composites. I figure they should ship them to big cities and recycle them as housing for the less fortunate.
Title: Re: Crazy Audiophile Ground System
Post by: Steve-White on January 30, 2020, 11:39:08 pm
As it is, they're now landfilling the blades from windmills that have been upgraded -- because either they can't or it's not cost effective to recycle the fiberglass/resin composites. I figure they should ship them to big cities and recycle them as housing for the less fortunate.

Just set them up on jacks along the sidewalks of SF & LA...