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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => The Basement => Topic started by: frank kayser on October 20, 2019, 04:27:37 pm

Title: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: frank kayser on October 20, 2019, 04:27:37 pm
As the title says, you gotta' love Apple.


So, I have this 10.5" iPad Pro that I got early 2017 sometime.  I broke the screen last Christmas, and that cost me $319 to repair from an authorized MAC repair place.


Fast forward to late spring - Touch ID was getting intermittent, and after much cleaning and hard booting, it finally failed all together.  Annoying, but not critical.


Last week I had it in the same repair place concerning a charging issue - they ran diagnostics, and found nothing wrong (turns out I had not 1, but 2 bad cables that would charge an iPhone, but not an iPad.  Figure the odds...


Anyway, Chris said the home key was getting unresponsive, and he offered to put inna third-party button at a reasonable price. BTW, third party buttons cannot be programmed to utilize Touch ID, unless installed by Apple. 


Self, I said, if I'm going to get a new button I'd like to have Touch ID fixed while I'm at it.  So I go on the web and find Apple will replace the home button for $80.  I had asked originally about an iPad, and thought that was the answer I received.  It may or may not have been...


So I go on to Apple repair site, click for the iPad, and click there are problems with the button.
They said make an appointment.  So off I went today to my appointment.  Of course, they moved the store to another location in the mall...


After about 30 minutes, a tech comes out to look at it, runs diagnostics which confirm the only thing wrong with the iPad is the TouchID, button function aside.


So he fiddles some more, and says "we offer a replacement kind-for-kind, as we do no repairs on any iPad".  Lovely.
How much?
fiddles some more...
$485.00.
What?
Well we may be able to offer something to you for trade... He said this one is in excellent shape, looked for scratches, and checked whether it was straight.  We should be able to give you something.
Ok.  He fiddles some more, then goes to talk with another employee.
That employee scans the info from my iPad, looks at the result.
The iPad is worth ZERO dollars, because the Touch ID does not work.
But, if you had the extended AppleCare, we'd replace it for free!
The tech asked me what I wanted to do.  I put the iPad back in its case, and after saying "I understand", left.


So, I will eventually go back to the "authorized repair center" that can't initialize a new button, and get a button that works reliably.


So some questions come up:
1. Why did the website not tell me button "repair" was an exchange, not actually a repair?  They could have also prepared me for the cost there.  I guess they wanted my fat little hiney in their already overcrowded store.  Easer drawing blood that way.
2. Apple claims to be "sustainable".  And just what would they have done with my old, Zero worth iPad?  Trash?  One has to wonder just how many working high-dollar electronics end up split between the recycler and the dump.
3. Oh yeah, if Apple itself won't repair it, what does an Apple Authorized Repair Facility do?


And on a separate note, Apple's treatment of "found" devices.
We've had an iPad PRO in the lost and found for nearly two years.
It's been powered up and connected to the network, but is iCloud locked.  Find-My-iPad has been broadcasting its whereabouts for at least six months now., but no one has come looking for it, put a "I'm lost" message on it or ...anything.
I called it into Apple, but they did not, as a policy, contact the original owner through their iCloud account to say it's been found, and can be found at (Police station, Apple Store, or Apple will mail it back to you". (wherever safe place they want me to drop it off)  Nope.  Useful as a brick. 


Now, if it gets turned into the Police, they'll catalog it, and stuff it into a closet somewhere.  After some time, they may return it to the finder (or not).


So Apple will only remove the lock if there is a legitimate bill of sale with the original owners name and the new owners name.  Now if I were to get it back from the police with official paperwork saying when I turned it in, when Apple was contacted, when LEO judged it abandoned property, and when it was returned to the finder, Apple would take all the documentation and the iPad it back and scrap it.


Useless to the world.


grrr!


/rant





Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on October 20, 2019, 04:38:52 pm
that seems like a reason to like apple stock, not their products.

They did squash the app that hong kong protesters were using... China is a big market, HK protesters not so much.

Does this count as political?

JR
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Jeff Lelko on October 20, 2019, 05:21:37 pm
I understand your frustration Frank.  I think you hit the nail on the head by saying ďearly 2017Ē.  Sadly, Apple products donít seem to have the longevity that they used to.  Thereís a reason why AppleCare is only for 2 years.  That said, Iíve gotten lucky with mine and gotten my moneyís worth on AppleCare.  Last year my iPad Pro 12.9Ē had issues with its touchscreen (I suspect a small crack somewhere) and I got a replacement iPad for free.  Another iPad Pro 12.9 developed a swollen battery, and while having been beyond the 2 year life of AppleCare was replaced in whole for the cost of a new battery ($99).  I canít complain about that either. 

I donít want to make assumptions about your usage, but all my Apple products are business expenses and see heavy use.  To me, the added cost of AppleCare is well worth it, not to mention that it can often be negotiated as part of a purchase package when buying new equipment.  I also only plan for 2-3 years of life for my Apple devices, but again, thatís from a business perspective.  For personal use this would be much more difficult to justify, especially given the rising cost in Apple products with relatively little innovation as of late.  Best of luck sorting this out though! 

FYI - while Apple says your device is worth $0, eBay would beg to differ.  If a trade in isnít worth it to you, buy a replacement and put your old device up for bids!  A few hundred dollars is better than nothing!
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: John Halliburton on October 21, 2019, 08:36:34 am

Last week I had it in the same repair place concerning a charging issue - they ran diagnostics, and found nothing wrong (turns out I had not 1, but 2 bad cables that would charge an iPhone, but not an iPad.  Figure the odds...


About 3:2 in favor...

Best regards,

John
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Steve Litscher on October 21, 2019, 10:51:22 am
Try calling their phone support. I've had much better luck with things like this via the phone. It sounds counter-intuitive, but it's worth a try.
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Dave Garoutte on October 21, 2019, 12:23:46 pm
I believe Apple sells them in bulk to online resellers, based on their availability on ebay.
I always buy a couple of generations old devices on ebay. 
You can often find brand new, old devices.
The cutting edge isn't worth the cost for what I use them for.
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Bob Stone on October 21, 2019, 11:16:08 pm
I understand your frustration Frank.  I think you hit the nail on the head by saying ďearly 2017Ē.  Sadly, Apple products donít seem to have the longevity that they used to.  Thereís a reason why AppleCare is only for 2 years.  That said, Iíve gotten lucky with mine and gotten my moneyís worth on AppleCare.  Last year my iPad Pro 12.9Ē had issues with its touchscreen (I suspect a small crack somewhere) and I got a replacement iPad for free.  Another iPad Pro 12.9 developed a swollen battery, and while having been beyond the 2 year life of AppleCare was replaced in whole for the cost of a new battery ($99).  I canít complain about that either. 

I donít want to make assumptions about your usage, but all my Apple products are business expenses and see heavy use.  To me, the added cost of AppleCare is well worth it, not to mention that it can often be negotiated as part of a purchase package when buying new equipment.  I also only plan for 2-3 years of life for my Apple devices, but again, thatís from a business perspective.  For personal use this would be much more difficult to justify, especially given the rising cost in Apple products with relatively little innovation as of late.  Best of luck sorting this out though! 

FYI - while Apple says your device is worth $0, eBay would beg to differ.  If a trade in isnít worth it to you, buy a replacement and put your old device up for bids!  A few hundred dollars is better than nothing!

You know it's sad when AppleCare is "worth it" because their devices fail outside of normal warranty period with surprisingly regularity. These devices should last 5 years of use without issue, not 1-2 years. Now accidental damage coverage is another matter, but for failing batteries and buttons and wearing out...it's ridiculous that it isn't covered. Apple devices just don't hold up.

I have an old blackberry phone and various lenovo laptops...both just keep going, without fault. The 6+ year old blackberry has probably been dropped dozens of times, gotten splashed, in my pocket every day for all those years and there isn't so much as a scratch on the screen or faulty key on the keyboard. It just works and is the way hardware should be built.
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Brian Jojade on October 22, 2019, 03:18:23 am
FYI, Apple does not authorize ANYONE to do repairs on iPads.  That 'authorized' repair place certainly isn't doing authorized repairs.  If they replaced your screen, it wasn't an original screen.

All Apple offers is flat rate exchanges on iPads, and that's been the case since the first one.
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Jeff Lelko on October 22, 2019, 07:17:20 pm
These devices should last 5 years of use without issue, not 1-2 years.

According to who?  These days itís hard to find anything in the field of consumer electronics thatís built to last a half-decade or more, especially if itís more than a desk ornament.  Can it happen?  Sure!  Being realisting though, the days of a MacBook lasting 10+ years are gone.  Consumers demand smaller, lighter, longer battery life...  All that comes at a price.  While Apple is certainly in business to make money (and is very good at it), they donít hide the fact that their devices are limited life.  Reading between the lines in their white papers will reveal an anticipated iPad life of 3 years.  You get a 1yr warranty for free.  AppleCare extends that to two plus coverage for accidental damage.  Beyond that, youíre on your own, but are also free to sell or trade your device to recoup the cost of purchase whenever you like.  Apple products also tend to hold value better than most electronics too. 

I think we all agree that consumer electronics are a depreciating asset anyways, so Iíd personally prefer something on the cheaper end with a lifespan of three years versus something very expensive with a lifespan of 10, everything else being equal.  Theyíll both become obsolete around the same time.  Just my two cents though!
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Kent Clasen on October 23, 2019, 12:41:49 am
Problems suck. And sometimes it takes a bit of time to work them out. As a business owner and a user I have found Apple computers  a much better investment than a dell pc. My best windows machine is a MacBook Pro running parallel. I can say the Apple phone support is great. I had an apple tech scheduling calls with me on weekends to fix a problem that ended up not their fault. He literally spent hours helping me.
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on October 23, 2019, 12:53:07 pm
 
I think we all agree that consumer electronics are a depreciating asset anyways, so Iíd personally prefer something on the cheaper end with a lifespan of three years versus something very expensive with a lifespan of 10, everything else being equal.  Theyíll both become obsolete around the same time.  Just my two cents though!

Since when does that apply to any Apple product??

I get the "new and improved"-I just wish they would allow for a more consumer friendly upgrade/path schedule.  I get tired doing things their way on their schedule.
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Bob Stone on October 23, 2019, 01:27:57 pm
According to who?  These days itís hard to find anything in the field of consumer electronics thatís built to last a half-decade or more, especially if itís more than a desk ornament.  Can it happen?  Sure!  Being realisting though, the days of a MacBook lasting 10+ years are gone.  Consumers demand smaller, lighter, longer battery life...  All that comes at a price.  While Apple is certainly in business to make money (and is very good at it), they donít hide the fact that their devices are limited life.  Reading between the lines in their white papers will reveal an anticipated iPad life of 3 years.  You get a 1yr warranty for free.  AppleCare extends that to two plus coverage for accidental damage.  Beyond that, youíre on your own, but are also free to sell or trade your device to recoup the cost of purchase whenever you like.  Apple products also tend to hold value better than most electronics too. 

I think we all agree that consumer electronics are a depreciating asset anyways, so Iíd personally prefer something on the cheaper end with a lifespan of three years versus something very expensive with a lifespan of 10, everything else being equal.  Theyíll both become obsolete around the same time.  Just my two cents though!

They are conditioning consumers to want the new one because "better" but aren't really offering much for that $1000/year upgrade price. As mentioned, I have several devices that are 5+ years old that are still going strong hardware wise. It's entirely possible to do at reasonable prices but it's not good for business, so apple isn't doing it. Hell, apple release updates that purposely cripple devices (see the battery scandal) so people go out and buy the new one.

Also, since when is apple cheaper? They're one of the most expensive brands out there. My $500 blackberry has lasted 6 years now without fault other than one cheap $30 replacement battery that is removable myself. My wife has had a $800 Galaxy S3 and a $1000 iPhone 7 (on it's second screen) and is thinking about a new iPhone again because the battery life is getting shorter and it's getting slower without anything you can do about it. The kicker is, she got the S3 within a month or two of me getting my BB.
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Craig Hauber on October 23, 2019, 01:58:00 pm
According to who?  These days itís hard to find anything in the field of consumer electronics thatís built to last a half-decade or more, especially if itís more than a desk ornament.  Can it happen?  Sure!  Being realisting though, the days of a MacBook lasting 10+ years are gone.  Consumers demand smaller, lighter, longer battery life...  All that comes at a price.  While Apple is certainly in business to make money (and is very good at it), they donít hide the fact that their devices are limited life.  Reading between the lines in their white papers will reveal an anticipated iPad life of 3 years.  You get a 1yr warranty for free.  AppleCare extends that to two plus coverage for accidental damage.  Beyond that, youíre on your own, but are also free to sell or trade your device to recoup the cost of purchase whenever you like.  Apple products also tend to hold value better than most electronics too. 

I think we all agree that consumer electronics are a depreciating asset anyways, so Iíd personally prefer something on the cheaper end with a lifespan of three years versus something very expensive with a lifespan of 10, everything else being equal.  Theyíll both become obsolete around the same time.  Just my two cents though!

Sad that all my life the "consumer electronics" industry has just been one giant "make-work" project to dig or drill materials out of the ground, refine & process them then just smash them and bury them back in the ground not too long after.
It would be nice to see that flow slowed-down a bit, but unfortunately I feel it's only speeding up.

Maybe that's why I collect and restore a few old things (cars, tractors, tools, radio and hi-fi -even my home) It's penance for all the electronics I've had to displace landfill volume with over the years!
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Jeff Lelko on October 24, 2019, 10:09:38 pm
Since when does that (a cheaper product) apply to any Apple product??

Let me rephrase the point I was making, as I agree that Apple is definitely not an economy product - I would prefer to pay a lower price for a given item knowing that life-limiting compromises were made with the design compared to paying substantially more for the same item thatís only marginally future-proof.  Iím thinking of the late 90s/early 2000s laptops here that cost an arm and a leg with the promise that they could be upgraded and whatnot, only to still be obsolete within a few years. 

They are conditioning consumers to want the new one because "better" but aren't really offering much for that $1000/year upgrade price.

Thatís a whole other debate entirely that touches on the overall mentality of our society and economic priorities.  I use Apple products for business only (and the occasional personal use, such as writing this response), but to me for only personal use itís a tougher sell.  Do I need a $1000 iPhone?  Of course not!  Just like I donít need a $3000 MacBook Pro to only send email and browse the web with.  That said, for my company I need computers that boast strong reliability, tablets that work with the equipment I own (iPads running the iOS-only dLive app), and the assurance that my products are guaranteed to be there for me for the next 2 years regardless of if I accidentally smash it or drop it off a stage.  When actually added up for my situation, Apple wasnít substantially more expensive than non-Apple solutions, so it was worth it to me despite being a Windows/Android user prior to 2016.  Your mileage will vary of course!       
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on October 25, 2019, 01:06:47 pm
I agree with the reliability things-and I am slowly being won over to Apple use by my pastor and few others (though I enjoy the friendly ribbing when the Apple product that just works doesn't!).  My frustration with your comment regarding life limiting compromises/lower cost is this:  for our media setup/install my only choices are a Macbook (why pay for a battery that WILL fail-especially if charged all of the time), an iMac (why do I need a 27 inch 4K screen to cue slides-it's obnoxious in this setup, but tied to the powerful processors), or I can do a Mac Mini-which seems to be the best compromise, but the Mini end up with a tangle of adaptors to real work interface with it and ends taking up more space than a small form factor PC-and costing significantly more than the "MSRP" of the mini by the time you can actually interface with it.

Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: lindsay Dean on October 25, 2019, 01:31:26 pm
Apple has created a marketing Ploy and proprietary Loop that's very seductive.
Their stuff is really no better, their prices are super high, their losing market share they had
The Apple Kool-Aid is very addictive to some.
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 25, 2019, 03:13:39 pm
I agree with the reliability things-and I am slowly being won over to Apple use by my pastor and few others (though I enjoy the friendly ribbing when the Apple product that just works doesn't!).  My frustration with your comment regarding life limiting compromises/lower cost is this:  for our media setup/install my only choices are a Macbook (why pay for a battery that WILL fail-especially if charged all of the time), an iMac (why do I need a 27 inch 4K screen to cue slides-it's obnoxious in this setup, but tied to the powerful processors), or I can do a Mac Mini-which seems to be the best compromise, but the Mini end up with a tangle of adaptors to real work interface with it and ends taking up more space than a small form factor PC-and costing significantly more than the "MSRP" of the mini by the time you can actually interface with it.

The Apple closed-loop of hardware and software is biting you.  You have my sympathy.

Of the choices dictated by the church's choice of software I suggest the Mini, even with the kluge of adapters, as being the best candidate for your use.
Title: Re: Gotta' love Apple... grrr!
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on October 28, 2019, 06:17:12 pm
I feel quite fortunate that, here in the UK, there's a chain of shops that sell 2nd-hand DVDs and tech. They also put a 2-year warranty on most of the tech stuff, with some stuff (iPhones) being 1 year.

I buy iPads that are a couple of generations old, and use those for running the mixing desk apps. They don't cost much, and they work fine.

With Apple's iCloud etc enforced on every iDevice, I'd rather buy from a bricks-and-mortar shop than 2nd hand privately or online - it's good to have somewhere you can take the product back, pop it on the counter and say "It's not working. Here's the receipt."

Chris