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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Subwoofer Forum => Topic started by: Sean Brown on October 07, 2019, 02:54:58 am

Title: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Sean Brown on October 07, 2019, 02:54:58 am
Has anyone heard BASSBOSS's new quad 21" sub "The KRAKEN"? Looks very innovative (as far as I know it's not a manifold sub like the MTL-4) and impressive. Size 48 x 48 x 36. Powered sub- 8000w RMS. Going to a demo in a few days. 
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on October 07, 2019, 03:38:25 am
Looks interesting, although I can see a couple of issues with the design.
Will be interesting to see if those issues are borne out in listening.

Chris
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Taylor Hall on October 07, 2019, 08:43:58 am
Interesting indeed. Hard to tell if it's sealed or ported from the photos, unless those cavities in each corner are ports they seem like an excellent spot for unwanted harmonics to build up...
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Art Welter on October 07, 2019, 12:17:06 pm
Interesting indeed. Hard to tell if it's sealed or ported from the photos, unless those cavities in each corner are ports they seem like an excellent spot for unwanted harmonics to build up...
The four corner ports, like any bass reflex port, will have "unwanted harmonics", port resonances, above the sub passband.

The short offset horns used in the Kraken increase the upper sub pass band output compared to a front-loaded bass reflex. There is nothing particularly "innovative" about that approach, functionally it the same as the L-4 quad 15"s we used in the mid 1980's, or EV's MTL-4, only the "horn" (manifold) has moved from the cabinet center to the outside.


Art

 
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Aaron Weidner on October 10, 2019, 07:23:56 pm
Looks interesting, although I can see a couple of issues with the design.
Will be interesting to see if those issues are borne out in listening.

Chris

What are those couple of issues?  :)
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on October 11, 2019, 08:04:40 am
What are those couple of issues?  :)

Well, there's the limited upper bandwidth by putting the driver part-way down a short horn - when sound hits the (closed) back and comes forward, you've got a delayed source leading to cancellations. Might not be much of an issue, but depends on the crossover point.

There's also the potential for cone sag over a couple of years.


Just seems to me that there's not much advantage over a pair of 2x21" cabs, but the size/weight of the thing means there's no chance of moving it solo.

Chris
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Rory Buszka on October 15, 2019, 01:19:00 pm
Well, there's the limited upper bandwidth by putting the driver part-way down a short horn - when sound hits the (closed) back and comes forward, you've got a delayed source leading to cancellations. Might not be much of an issue, but depends on the crossover point.

There's also the potential for cone sag over a couple of years.


Just seems to me that there's not much advantage over a pair of 2x21" cabs, but the size/weight of the thing means there's no chance of moving it solo.

Chris

While I agree that there probably isn't any advantage with this approach over a pair of 21" cabinets based upon the relationship of output to enclosure volume, I don't think the loading of the driver is an issue as you stated. If it were, you couldn't horn-load any large woofer in the way Danley does in their DBH218 and many of their tapped horns, or in the way that Bassmaxx used to do it (with the driver offset along a horn), and you would need some kind of phase plug or very carefully designed throat section that normally is only pursued for mid-frequency horns. The path length distance here is 14-16" at most, and that would create cancellation only above 400 Hz; below that, the duct is being pressurized more or less uniformly. (And this is a subwoofer - it will never be asked to produce 400 Hz at any significant level.) The issue I see with it is that it is large, and probably very difficult to handle. It will sell to some customers who want to be able to say "Hey man, it's a quad-21", but it probably won't see much touring use.

Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Sean Brown on February 25, 2020, 05:09:39 pm
If any one is interested here's the production version:

https://www.bassboss.com/buy/kraken-powered-subwoofer/


#kraken
#Bassboss
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Doug Fowler on February 25, 2020, 10:58:57 pm
While I agree that there probably isn't any advantage with this approach over a pair of 21" cabinets based upon the relationship of output to enclosure volume, I don't think the loading of the driver is an issue as you stated. If it were, you couldn't horn-load any large woofer in the way Danley does in their DBH218 and many of their tapped horns, or in the way that Bassmaxx used to do it (with the driver offset along a horn), and you would need some kind of phase plug or very carefully designed throat section that normally is only pursued for mid-frequency horns. The path length distance here is 14-16" at most, and that would create cancellation only above 400 Hz; below that, the duct is being pressurized more or less uniformly. (And this is a subwoofer - it will never be asked to produce 400 Hz at any significant level.) The issue I see with it is that it is large, and probably very difficult to handle. It will sell to some customers who want to be able to say "Hey man, it's a quad-21", but it probably won't see much touring use.

David is catering to the DJ market. I'm sure he would be happy to sell to portable operators, though.

I'll wager this thing delivers the goods based on past BASSBOSS experience, but I have not heard it.  It was just released last month.
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Art Welter on February 27, 2020, 05:14:16 pm
If any one is interested here's the production version:

https://www.bassboss.com/buy/kraken-powered-subwoofer/


#kraken
#Bassboss
460 pounds of fun, did you hear the demo you mentioned last October?
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Steve-White on February 27, 2020, 07:49:49 pm
460 pounds of fun, did you hear the demo you mentioned last October?

460lbs OMG, what a behemouth.  Fine for an install, but would never ever on my lift gate.  :)

Way back in the day the first gen 1 DJ system had a pair of Altec A4's in it - those are rated at 395 lbs empty, add the 2205's and now it's 445 lbs each.

No more of that - my stuff is all single 18's and piled up as required.

Bet those SOB's will belt out the thunder!
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Taylor Hall on February 28, 2020, 06:12:25 pm
460lbs OMG, what a behemouth. 
I mean, a BC415 is 40lb heavier ;)
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 29, 2020, 12:53:52 am
500 lbs is not exactly heavy IF the work you do is in places and for clients that understand professional production is carted by tractor-trailer rigs.  A cart of 4 L'Acoustics K-1 is over 1000 lbs.  A half-pack caddy full of feeder?  A cart full of stage decks?  "Here comes 2000+ lbs of *fuck you up* so don't get in the way...

The calculus here is about what factors take precedence in YOUR situation.  If you're doing gigs in 5th floor walk ups, then the Bassboss or BC415 isn't on your list, no matter how much you might need the output or LF extension.  If you're doing gigs in venues with local crew and loading docks, things change, you don't need a big stack of single driver subwoofers.
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Scott Holtzman on February 29, 2020, 01:25:28 am
500 lbs is not exactly heavy IF the work you do is in places and for clients that understand professional production is carted by tractor-trailer rigs.  A cart of 4 L'Acoustics K-1 is over 1000 lbs.  A half-pack caddy full of feeder?  A cart full of stage decks?  "Here comes 2000+ lbs of *fuck you up* so don't get in the way...

The calculus here is about what factors take precedence in YOUR situation.  If you're doing gigs in 5th floor walk ups, then the Bassboss or BC415 isn't on your list, no matter how much you might need the output or LF extension.  If you're doing gigs in venues with local crew and loading docks, things change, you don't need a big stack of single driver subwoofers.


When those of us like me that somehow slithered out of the lounge gigs the first time I got to stand there with my truck backed up to a loading dock, with union stagehands and a forklift I thought I had died and gone to heaven.



Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Steve-White on February 29, 2020, 09:43:37 am

When those of us like me that somehow slithered out of the lounge gigs the first time I got to stand there with my truck backed up to a loading dock, with union stagehands and a forklift I thought I had died and gone to heaven.

Same here - I got the experience of working with IATSE stage hands and standing on the floor of a 10,000 seat arena the same day.  Those guys knew it was my "first" time and they were great to work with.  I had about 1/4 of the system I needed, but got it done and got paid.  What a learning curve.  That room looked much larger from the floor that day than it did from the seats where I had watched many shows.  :)
Title: Re: Bassboss Quad 21" Sub
Post by: Taylor Hall on February 29, 2020, 10:20:53 am

When those of us like me that somehow slithered out of the lounge gigs the first time I got to stand there with my truck backed up to a loading dock, with union stagehands and a forklift I thought I had died and gone to heaven.
Great feeling for sure. We're gearing up to have a lot more of those this year, exciting times!