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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Lighting Forum => Topic started by: Tim Weaver on October 06, 2019, 10:52:01 am

Title: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 06, 2019, 10:52:01 am
I kinda want to put up 3 ACL 4-bars in our youth room. I have been looking around for a modern LED version of this classic and can't really find one.

There are several moving, multi-headed types of lights, but it's not exactly what I want. I wish they made those heads in stand-alone par type fixtures, but with the super tight beam.


Maybe I could use some of the newer LED pinspots if they are bright enough. This is a smaller stage. I'll be using some 60 watt LED movers (Intimidator Scan 305) and your basic mismash of LED pars. So it doesn't have to compete with pro lights, but I want it to be bright enough to punch through a wash.

Got any suggestions?

Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 06, 2019, 11:08:13 am
Here's my wash lights. You can see this is a smaller stage. Maybe 25x15 or so.

Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Mac Kerr on October 06, 2019, 11:45:56 am
I kinda want to put up 3 ACL 4-bars in our youth room. I have been looking around for a modern LED version of this classic and can't really find one.

There are several moving, multi-headed types of lights, but it's not exactly what I want. I wish they made those heads in stand-alone par type fixtures, but with the super tight beam.


Maybe I could use some of the newer LED pinspots if they are bright enough. This is a smaller stage. I'll be using some 60 watt LED movers (Intimidator Scan 305) and your basic mismash of LED pars. So it doesn't have to compete with pro lights, but I want it to be bright enough to punch through a wash.

Got any suggestions?

There might be some, but there wouldn't be much motivation to package them as 4 bars. Aircraft Landing Lights (ACL) were 28V lamps, so were packaged as bars of 4 in series to use with 120VAC. Since any modern replacement wouldn't require the series wiring they could be packaged individually. Any bright narrow beam unit should be be able to simulate what ACLs did, which was usually beams in haze or streaks on backdrops.

Mac
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 06, 2019, 12:20:08 pm
There might be some, but there wouldn't be much motivation to package them as 4 bars. Aircraft Landing Lights (ACL) were 28V lamps, so were packaged as bars of 4 in series to use with 120VAC. Since any modern replacement wouldn't require the series wiring they could be packaged individually. Any bright narrow beam unit should be be able to simulate what ACLs did, which was usually beams in haze or streaks on backdrops.

Mac

True that.

It's mostly that I'm accustomed to seeing them in groups of 4. I figured there might be something out there to simulate this effect. It probably doesn't sell very well though since it's kind of a one-trick pony.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: John Fruits on October 06, 2019, 02:39:33 pm
Well, Elation has the cuepix4 and ChauvetPro has the Strike4 but they are rather overkill and no doubt above budget.  Looking around at Amazon, I was intrigued with the U'King and Donner "beam pinspot" fixtures.  They re 19W, RGB(maybeW), dmx control and have a yoke.  I could see rigging four of them in a quad. 
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Steve Garris on October 07, 2019, 02:25:53 pm
Well, Elation has the cuepix4 and ChauvetPro has the Strike4 but they are rather overkill and no doubt above budget.  Looking around at Amazon, I was intrigued with the U'King and Donner "beam pinspot" fixtures.  They re 19W, RGB(maybeW), dmx control and have a yoke.  I could see rigging four of them in a quad.

Here's the white only (I think) version of that light. These are all over eBay, and I've thought about making a 4-bar of these just to see how well they work.

https://ebay.to/2ASqSLm

This Donner light has a reviewer showing that it does have RGBW led's (see pictures):
https://www.amazon.com/Donner-Spotlight-Pinspot-Lightning-Control/dp/B019GFDK10
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on October 07, 2019, 06:56:38 pm
I have a 10w white only version of the above led pinspots and IMO it beats the 12v ACL, don't remember if I bought that fixture online or locally but I had to search for the white only version.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 07, 2019, 06:57:31 pm
Here's the white only (I think) version of that light. These are all over eBay, and I've thought about making a 4-bar of these just to see how well they work.

https://ebay.to/2ASqSLm

This Donner light has a reviewer showing that it does have RGBW led's (see pictures):
https://www.amazon.com/Donner-Spotlight-Pinspot-Lightning-Control/dp/B019GFDK10

Just not sure how much punch those little guys would actually have. I ended up buying 6 of the American DJ Saber Spot. https://www.adj.com/saber-spot-rgbw

I'll let you know how well they work. I figure I'll do three groups of two lights to start with. I just want to get some beams happening in there. If they work out I'll add some more next year.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 07, 2019, 06:58:28 pm
I have a 10w white only version of the above led pinspots and IMO it beats the 12v ACL, don't remember if I bought that fixture online or locally but I had to search for the white only version.

By 12v ACL do you mean a pinspot? It wouldn't be hard to beat that.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on October 07, 2019, 07:15:26 pm
By 12v ACL do you mean a pinspot? It wouldn't be hard to beat that.
Yes.. but to be clear this is comparing a chauvet 30w acl pinspot to the 10w led pinspot.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Steve Garris on October 08, 2019, 12:48:23 pm
Just not sure how much punch those little guys would actually have. I ended up buying 6 of the American DJ Saber Spot. https://www.adj.com/saber-spot-rgbw

I'll let you know how well they work. I figure I'll do three groups of two lights to start with. I just want to get some beams happening in there. If they work out I'll add some more next year.

Please do. Those ADJ's look like the real deal, and you can at least believe the 15W claim. With that narrow beam, those should be nice.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 08, 2019, 02:01:39 pm
Please do. Those ADJ's look like the real deal, and you can at least believe the 15W claim. With that narrow beam, those should be nice.

I like how the beam comes out collimated. It doesn't "flip" after it leaves the lens like the cheap ones do.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Don T. Williams on October 11, 2019, 07:27:44 pm
Tim, I was wondering what your conclusion was.  Searching on line I find a lot of aircraft LED replacement lamps, but nothing like the various 28V PAR lamps that were (are) used in concerts.

I have used both the 250W and 600W PAR 64 - 28V ACL's.  I also came across PAR56 30V locomotive headlights which made for slightly smaller lower powered "ACL" effects in the pre LED days.  The 28V PAR36 ACL lamp was used to make "mini ACL 4 bars".  When I first bought 4 light "audience blinders" I used these wired in series instead of the "correct" 120V 650W DWE wired in parallel.  A few of the audience member were very well lit!  I was corrected by the LD after the first show.  Now the new LED audience blinders contain some amber LED to emulate the glow of dimmed DWE's without needing 2600 watts of dimmer per set of four!
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 11, 2019, 11:50:16 pm
Tim, I was wondering what your conclusion was.  Searching on line I find a lot of aircraft LED replacement lamps, but nothing like the various 28V PAR lamps that were (are) used in concerts.

I have used both the 250W and 600W PAR 64 - 28V ACL's.  I also came across PAR56 30V locomotive headlights which made for slightly smaller lower powered "ACL" effects in the pre LED days.  The 28V PAR36 ACL lamp was used to make "mini ACL 4 bars".  When I first bought 4 light "audience blinders" I used these wired in series instead of the "correct" 120V 650W DWE wired in parallel.  A few of the audience member were very well lit!  I was corrected by the LD after the first show.  Now the new LED audience blinders contain some amber LED to emulate the glow of dimmed DWE's without needing 2600 watts of dimmer per set of four!

The lights have been delivered, but I took the week off to do a bunch of projects around the house. I'll get back to it this coming week.

Thats funny. I could just imagine a 4 light loaded up with ACL's! haha

Yeah we used both flavors of ACL in the bad old days too. If we had the 120k rig out we had four 4-bars of Par 64 sized ACL's/ For club shows we had another four 4-bars of par 38 ACl. They really made an impact in a club! We would routinely put up 24-36k of pars plus the 4 little ACL's.

Man, what a pile of work we gave ourselves back then........
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Hite on October 13, 2019, 05:04:57 pm
Let me know what you think please. I'm about to order 4 of the Saber Spot Go battery versions. They cost a lot more than pinspots but I think they will do a lot more, as well.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: John Fruits on October 13, 2019, 07:57:07 pm
Let me know what you think please. I'm about to order 4 of the Saber Spot Go battery versions. They cost a lot more than pinspots but I think they will do a lot more, as well.
I recently noticed that 4Wall/usedlighting.com has some ADJ B-stock units for sale.
https://www.usedlighting.com/44262/adj-saber-spot-go?ref=weekly
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 14, 2019, 04:50:47 pm
I recently noticed that 4Wall/usedlighting.com has some ADJ B-stock units for sale.
https://www.usedlighting.com/44262/adj-saber-spot-go?ref=weekly

I found probably the same supply but on amazon. I payed 99 each for 6 of them.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 14, 2019, 05:01:31 pm
Here's a little update on the "LED ACL" prject.

I got the Saber Spots in and I am fairly impressed with them. I also got some B-stock Intimidator 305 scanners as well. More on that later.

To be right up front about it, these are club level lights!. I will be using these on a stage with a 10 foot height, about 12 foot deep and maybe 25 feet wide. Not a big space at all! The seating in there is maybe 150 if they are packed in.


Now on to the show.

I unpacked one of each light and threw it in automatic mode just to see whats up.
White and white the Saber Spot seems a little lacking.
(https://i.imgur.com/XCd6Hyfl.jpg)

But things change dramatically when the Spots are using color. Colors out of the saber spot seem a good bit brighter than just the white.
(https://i.imgur.com/nrDCjhWl.jpg)

The Intimidator 305's are a 60 watt LED source. Pretty dang bright for the size, weight, and price I'd say! Here is a few shots of the two lights overlayed so you can see relative brightness. The 305's in a royal blue will allow beams from the Saber Spots to highlight pretty well I think.
(https://i.imgur.com/wQqTB2Tl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xwoWPzol.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7UOTXM4l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RRkFGG9l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/h49uQbDl.jpg)

Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 14, 2019, 05:09:10 pm
Just FYI I was about 20-25 feet away from that wall. No lights on in the room, but there are large windows on my right. It's an overcast day though, so make of that what you will. Ambient is brighter than a club, darker than most churches.

So here's a bit about the Intimidator 305's.

I chose these because the brightness is clearly there for a club sized fixture, but also they have one extremely important feature that makes them look like big-boy lights. Rotating Gobos. Yes. They only have one gobo wheel, but they rotate. Plus it has a simple 3 facet prism so you can split those rotating gobos and have some real texture on stage. The cracked glass gobo will be especially useful I think!

Did I mention they were small?
(https://i.imgur.com/IWFNDz5l.jpg)
The Saber Spot is in the window back there.

Gobos and prisms.
(https://i.imgur.com/GcuWkCbl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UBhS1oNl.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Don T. Williams on October 14, 2019, 10:15:33 pm
Thanks Tim.  I was hoping the Saber Spots were brighter, but they are what they are.  There are some LED ACL aircraft replacement lamps out there.  Some are very pricy!  I found a comparison video for incandescent, HID, and LED versions of the PAR 36's.  I don't have the link, but it was interesting.  I'll try to find it.  The LED and HID were very pricy compared the 28V PAR 36.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Hite on October 15, 2019, 03:11:19 am
That's awesome Tim.

I have to light a disco ball and the little pinspot go lights just didn't seem like I would even get another use out of them. Seems like the Saber Spot Go will be useful in more situations. Definitely plenty of light output for accent lighting at events. Wedding cakes will never be the same now.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Steve Garris on October 15, 2019, 02:31:15 pm
Thanks Tim.  I was hoping the Saber Spots were brighter, but they are what they are.  There are some LED ACL aircraft replacement lamps out there.  Some are very pricy!  I found a comparison video for incandescent, HID, and LED versions of the PAR 36's.  I don't have the link, but it was interesting.  I'll try to find it.  The LED and HID were very pricy compared the 28V PAR 36.

The non-certified aircraft lights are cheap enough:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008UBVC26/?coliid=I2PB1G77OUBIUN&colid=1ZA0LKMGHFMHQ&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

In the questions, the manufacturer states that they have a narrow beam version. Might be worth looking into.
https://amzn.to/2plk5qW


I'm interested in seeing the Saber Spots with some fog or haze.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 15, 2019, 02:41:37 pm
That's awesome Tim.

I have to light a disco ball and the little pinspot go lights just didn't seem like I would even get another use out of them. Seems like the Saber Spot Go will be useful in more situations. Definitely plenty of light output for accent lighting at events. Wedding cakes will never be the same now.

They also come with some lens options for making a wash, but I don't know how well those work. I'm only interested in the beam. If I get time to mess with that stage this week I'll take some pics of the different lenses. Maybe with some haze.
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 15, 2019, 06:16:31 pm
Set them up with some haze. Just doing automatic epilepsy mode.

By themselves in the dark
https://i.imgur.com/6HWOEGY.mp4

With the wall wash
https://i.imgur.com/nwQfjqz.mp4

Wall wash and rear wash together.
https://i.imgur.com/RZLdACY.mp4

Full spaz mode. This is what is running during the hype-up bit while kids are entering. It's a youth church service.
https://i.imgur.com/nKZJKs2.mp4
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Weaver on October 15, 2019, 06:22:51 pm
Also, I guess my phone can't handle shooting in the dark with a bunch of haze in the air. The image stabilization was going wacky. I had the phone resting on the doghouse while shooting these, thinking my hands were shaking, but it wasn't me!
Title: Re: Is there a basic LED "ACL" bar or just single light?
Post by: Tim Hite on October 16, 2019, 01:56:13 pm
Set them up with some haze. Just doing automatic epilepsy mode.

By themselves in the dark
https://i.imgur.com/6HWOEGY.mp4

With the wall wash
https://i.imgur.com/nwQfjqz.mp4

Wall wash and rear wash together.
https://i.imgur.com/RZLdACY.mp4

Full spaz mode. This is what is running during the hype-up bit while kids are entering. It's a youth church service.
https://i.imgur.com/nKZJKs2.mp4
\

Thanks for the videos, I was wondering if these Saber spots would stand up for use like this as stage highlights. Guess they will be OK. I just got my in and I'm underwhelmed with the jerky color fades on the auto shows.