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Title: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Jerry Dycus on October 02, 2019, 08:39:10 am
I have a church quartet that each singer uses a Sennheiser E835. I'm thinking of lightening my equipment load by using a Bose L1 Compact. Audience size: 15-20 people; Room size: 20x30. Would it work to use one L1 Compact out front of singers as a FOH speaker and a floor wedge for singer monitor? Thank you.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Taylor Hall on October 02, 2019, 09:08:29 am
For a room that small it should work, but in that price range what's keeping you from things like JBL SRX, QSC K-Series or EV ETX? There's nothing that's any more complicated  about any of those options compared to the L1 and would handily match or exceed their output.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 02, 2019, 09:46:55 am
For that size audience it could be an all-acoustic show.  No PA needed.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Chris Hindle on October 02, 2019, 12:29:56 pm
For that size audience it could be an all-acoustic show.  No PA needed.

Agreed. If the band is under control, a PA would not be needed.
It's the size of a living room, not a stadium.
Chris.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Ivan Beaver on October 02, 2019, 12:44:41 pm
For that size audience it could be an all-acoustic show.  No PA needed.
SOOO many times people look for a solution to a problem that does not exist.

WHY do you need a PA? in that size room?  Do what people did before sound systems-SING!!!!!

That is a lost art it seems.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Mike Caldwell on October 02, 2019, 07:43:45 pm
For that size audience it could be an all-acoustic show.  No PA needed.

THIS

If you must go electric ditch the monitor and get a pair SMALL powered speakers like six or eight inch two ways at most just to give
you a bit of vocal "lift".

Is that size of show the market your going after or do you plan to scale it up over time?
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Jerry Dycus on October 03, 2019, 06:20:37 am
For a room that small it should work, but in that price range what's keeping you from things like JBL SRX, QSC K-Series or EV ETX? There's nothing that's any more complicated  about any of those options compared to the L1 and would handily match or exceed their output.

Weight, I'm 76 years old!
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Jerry Dycus on October 03, 2019, 06:23:45 am
THIS

If you must go electric ditch the monitor and get a pair SMALL powered speakers like six or eight inch two ways at most just to give
you a bit of vocal "lift".

Is that size of show the market your going after or do you plan to scale it up over time?

Our primary purpose is nursing homes, but several times a year we get asked to sing for much larger groups in larger venues. Trying to reach a happy medium.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Rory Buszka on October 03, 2019, 10:34:49 am
Our primary purpose is nursing homes, but several times a year we get asked to sing for much larger groups in larger venues. Trying to reach a happy medium.

What is the largest venue you currently perform in where you must provide your own sound and cannot make other arrangements with the event coordinator (for them to provide the sound)?

The Bose product is not terrible. Some just look down on it because Bose seems to charge a premium price for a product that doesn't always exceed expectations for performance, even though it sounds nice and is certainly acceptable for most of what you want to do. You came to a pro audio forum, not a working musician forum, and the Bose L1 systems are targeted at the working musician ("prosumer"), not the more serious audio provider (and arguably have taken a lot of small gig work away from audio professionals as people now believe they can provide their own sound in situations where that's not advisable for other reasons).
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Mike Caldwell on October 03, 2019, 07:38:04 pm
If you want a Bose form factor speaker for you largerish jobs look at the RCF Evox J8Mix sounds better than an L1 for not much more.

For bigger as in outdoors, or bigger indoor couple hundred people events as Rory said have the promoter book a proper system and a tech to run it.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on October 05, 2019, 08:52:23 pm
The Bose L1 compact is a terrible Fisher Price kids toy dressed up as a pro audio speaker. Jerry are you a Bose fan or did you just see this unit as a potential solution to your problem? Don't fall the marketing BS on the website that claims this thing can do all sorts of magic, it's just not possible with a 6" line of tiny drivers The thing I really despise about Bose is the value quotient.. you really do not get good value for your money with a $1k retail price. This box in particular is pretty bad IMO, it's really flimsy and not very powerful with no more output than half of the average $300 home theater in a box. I get that you want something small and light and realistically for the small retirement home gigs you hardly need a PA but that is all the L1 compact would be good for.. it would be totally overwhelmed in front of a larger crowd. If you want some good value for your money I'd suggest you pick up a single EV ZXa1 and an aluminum stand, these sound really sweet.. are light at 19lbs and while they don't get as loud as a larger PA speaker a single box will easily outclass an L1c and you will have saved $300 or more.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 05, 2019, 09:29:50 pm
The Bose L1 compact is a terrible Fisher Price kids toy dressed up as a pro audio speaker. Jerry are you a Bose fan or did you just see this unit as a potential solution to your problem? Don't fall the marketing BS on the website that claims this thing can do all sorts of magic, it's just not possible with a 6" line of tiny drivers The thing I really despise about Bose is the value quotient.. you really do not get good value for your money with a $1k retail price. This box in particular is pretty bad IMO, it's really flimsy and not very powerful with no more output than half of the average $300 home theater in a box. I get that you want something small and light and realistically for the small retirement home gigs you hardly need a PA but that is all the L1 compact would be good for.. it would be totally overwhelmed in front of a larger crowd. If you want some good value for your money I'd suggest you pick up a single EV ZXa1 and an aluminum stand, these sound really sweet.. are light at 19lbs and while they don't get as loud as a larger PA speaker a single box will easily outclass an L1c and you will have saved $300 or more.

What I don't get is the emotional attachment.  To have a frank and logical discussion with owners of Bose products is impossible.  They break the laws of physics and sound "amazing".

Just two weeks ago I was doing a benefit for a good friend who's cancer has not spread to his pancreas.  He is a beloved vocalist for 30+ years and a warm and genuine human being.  It was a long and emotional day.  Some of the bands that played were not used to production and quick turns so my little team had worked our asses off.  We were getting up to the headliners and a popular act around town, who play other peoples songs of course, was setting up on stage.  We have done weddings and privates for them before, they know we are moving away from the bar scene so we don't get calls from them for bar gigs.  I had KW153's over two KW181's on the 10" stage provided along with DXR10's for sidefills, 5 HPR112's for monitors and a drum sub.  It was the right rig for the room and had tons of headroom.  The monitor rig was way more than needed.  Anyway this guy walks up to me and says he bought a Bose F1 system (that's the goofy rig with the telescoping polls and line array styled tops) blows this rig out of the water (the F1 sub is 60lbs and two 10"'s!!!).  I said, I really doubt that but politely added if it is working for you I am happy.   He then proceeds to tell me that they just played a popular outside venue that they always hired us to cover.  It's 250' feet to the back, outside, very noisy as it is a busy marina.  The aforementioned KW rig is barely enough rig for this venue and we always bring a pair of KW112 to use as delays about halfway back.  Bands that care at this venue pay for a bigger system such as 2 JBL STX828's a side with three Muse210's on top (dual 10" line array modules) or my new favorite system an HK projector rig (it's only new to me!).  The HK is a twelve box horn loaded monster.  It sounds wayyyyy better than the the improperly deployed line array modules that folks seem to fawn over.

Anyway, they he goes on to say they are going to use these at a 1400 cap soft seating theater with at least a 40' proscenium I became irritated and one of the guys separated us. 

Seems anyone dumb enough to buy these Bose systems also gets a dose of hubris too.  I really don't get it. 

That's OK one of my techs uses a pair of Mackie Thumps for his jam band and says they sound "awesome".  That brings his entire judgment into question, lol. 
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Doug Jane on October 05, 2019, 11:25:05 pm
What I don't get is the emotional attachment.  To have a frank and logical discussion with owners of Bose products is impossible.  They break the laws of physics and sound "amazing".
I agree completely. Amazing how something that breaks the laws of physics can be so feted. But then, theres gold plated a.c cables etc.....
You cant do much about stupid.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Tim Padrick on October 10, 2019, 01:01:37 am
I've not seen or heard the Compact.  I've mixed on a system comprised of a pair of L1MII - with the little subs - a number of times.

Is setup quick and simple? Yes.

Can it sound good? Yes, but not without just as much fiddling as a good standard box (some of which sound MUCH better).

Does the sound level change less with distance than "normal" speakers? No.

Is it better than a similarly priced "normal" system? It's not as good, let alone better. Especially if the musical genre "requires" a lot of kick.

At the price, I can't think of any reason to recommend it for any application.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Jerry Dycus on October 10, 2019, 07:47:14 am
I've not seen or heard the Compact.  I've mixed on a system comprised of a pair of L1MII - with the little subs - a number of times.

Is setup quick and simple? Yes.

Can it sound good? Yes, but not without just as much fiddling as a good standard box (some of which sound MUCH better).

Does the sound level change less with distance than "normal" speakers? No.

Is it better than a similarly priced "normal" system? It's not as good, let alone better. Especially if the musical genre "requires" a lot of kick.

At the price, I can't think of any reason to recommend it for any application.

Sometimes it just doesn't pay to listen to the "experts" and follow your own gut. I bought the L1 Compact a week ago, used it 2 days ago in a health facility. The audience was thrilled, my 4 singers were totally happy, and needless to say my back was a happy camper. From over 100 lbs. with three speakers to one at 26 lbs., far fewer cable strung across the floor, and setup time cut in half,  and as good if not better sound.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 10, 2019, 09:01:59 am
Sometimes it just doesn't pay to listen to the "experts" and follow your own gut. I bought the L1 Compact a week ago, used it 2 days ago in a health facility. The audience was thrilled, my 4 singers were totally happy, and needless to say my back was a happy camper. From over 100 lbs. with three speakers to one at 26 lbs., far fewer cable strung across the floor, and setup time cut in half,  and as good if not better sound.
Then why did you ask?

You posted your question in the "big dog" forum, where folks routinely provide production for many hundreds or thousands of audience.  Sure, we do stuff for small head counts, too, and I recall that advice was given for very small crowds (you don't need PA) that would mean ZERO weight.  If you were seeking confirmation for a Bose purchase you generally won't find it among these users due to Bose "better sound through litigation" or "better sound through marketing (take you pick).

Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 10, 2019, 06:13:16 pm
Sometimes it just doesn't pay to listen to the "experts" and follow your own gut. I bought the L1 Compact a week ago, used it 2 days ago in a health facility. The audience was thrilled, my 4 singers were totally happy, and needless to say my back was a happy camper. From over 100 lbs. with three speakers to one at 26 lbs., far fewer cable strung across the floor, and setup time cut in half,  and as good if not better sound.

I think you were just deluded because you spent too much money.  The fact you put experts in quotation marks clearly indicates you don't have an appreciation for the level of advice you get here.

You could have saved yourself $1000 if you had listened but you just had to prove us wrong.   Nobody cares but your wallet is can feel it. 



Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Don T. Williams on October 10, 2019, 06:48:15 pm
Jerry its good that you are happy with your purchase, and I actually hope it will work well for you.  In my opinion, its a shame you didn't do a little more research.  There are a lot of competing similar type systems for the same or less money that are far superior to the LT1.  It's not that its "bad" for its intended purpose (as Bose states it is a personal performing/monitoring system), but it probably has the lowest performance and highest cost for any system of this type.  Cost/performance ratio is important in the pro audio world.  I can understand it isn't a factor you.  Again, it is not inherently "bad", it just isn't a good value in my opinion. 

I think the reason the LT1 (and other speakers of this type) are so disliked by the pro community is that we see them misused more often that we see them used as intended (Bose says as a personal performing/monitoring system in small venues). As a main system for most events (and especially outdoor events of almost any size) they are horribly inadequate.  Jerry, I'm not saying that you are misusing your system and that it won't work for your application, but I don't think you receive much performance for what you paid.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on October 10, 2019, 07:00:34 pm
I have often read comments on the Bose L1 here-but never seen/heard one in the wild.  A few weeks ago a visiting musical family  was at our church-brought their own sound and had it set up when I got there-the Bose. I cringed, but my curiosity was up and it's their sound so none of my responsibility at that point so I listened.  At first, I was unimpressed-very dull/muddy sounding-but then my FOH position is poor-it is off to the side and up above most of the congregation(though our house system covers the room fairly evenly so it works for us as the best compromise). My pastor was standing at the back-and he usually is picky about sound-he didn't seemed too concerned, so I went to the back center of the auditorium.  Night and day!  It sounded decent and workable-and for a family traveling with tight space to a lot of churches with substandard sound-maybe not a terrible choice, though there could certainly be fair debate what would be the best cost vs benefit.

The take away to me?  I moved about 35 feet and there was a drastic difference in sound.  Far more than with our house system (an unfair comparison to be sure)-but also much worse than a similar setup using k12's as a pair of SOS in the same room a few weeks earlier. From my observation, the Bose would maybe cover half?? of our auditorium with a consistent sound-the QSC's easily covered all of it.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Brian Jojade on October 10, 2019, 09:18:06 pm
Sometimes it just doesn't pay to listen to the "experts" and follow your own gut. I bought the L1 Compact a week ago, used it 2 days ago in a health facility. The audience was thrilled, my 4 singers were totally happy, and needless to say my back was a happy camper. From over 100 lbs. with three speakers to one at 26 lbs., far fewer cable strung across the floor, and setup time cut in half,  and as good if not better sound.

Not a great way to gain support on forums here.

Yes, the Bose system makes sound.  In your usage scenario, it's probably just the ticket.  There were only a couple posts that said it was junk, and those clarified that it's junk based on what you're paying for.  You could get something that outperforms that speaker in just about every aspect for a fraction of the price.  But if you've got the funds, and the speaker works for you, then awesome!

To be honest, providing sound for such a small audience is more difficult than filling a large venue in many cases, as keeping things more compact adds to the challenge.  It's a totally different game to play.  When you do get into larger venues, don't expect the world out of that box.  Yeah, it'll make noise, and if that's all you need, then it'll be fine.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Robert Lunceford on October 15, 2019, 09:21:03 am
The Bose L1 compact is a terrible Fisher Price kids toy dressed up as a pro audio speaker. Jerry are you a Bose fan or did you just see this unit as a potential solution to your problem? Don't fall the marketing BS on the website that claims this thing can do all sorts of magic, it's just not possible with a 6" line of tiny drivers The thing I really despise about Bose is the value quotient.. you really do not get good value for your money with a $1k retail price. This box in particular is pretty bad IMO, it's really flimsy and not very powerful with no more output than half of the average $300 home theater in a box. I get that you want something small and light and realistically for the small retirement home gigs you hardly need a PA but that is all the L1 compact would be good for.. it would be totally overwhelmed in front of a larger crowd. If you want some good value for your money I'd suggest you pick up a single EV ZXa1 and an aluminum stand, these sound really sweet.. are light at 19lbs and while they don't get as loud as a larger PA speaker a single box will easily outclass an L1c and you will have saved $300 or more.

https://youtu.be/xzp9YiEhJPM
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Steve Crump on October 15, 2019, 10:52:38 am
https://youtu.be/xzp9YiEhJPM

I do not own a Bose system and never plan on purchasing one. I can admit that one reason, (not the only reason) that I have never even considered purchasing one is because of the guys that I work around that own Bose systems and think they are the end all-be all for sound. I know that is not much of a reason, but it works for me.

But, with all the bashing that goes on concerning the Bose systems this post by Robert made me laugh (at myself).

Pat Metheny...What would he know?.....LOL. ;D  I would say he is qualified.

Only artist to win Grammy Awards in ten different categories[21]
Down Beat Hall of Fame, 2013
Miles Davis Award, Montreal International Jazz Festival, 1995
Orville H. Gibson Award, 1996
Honorary Doctorate of Music from Berklee College of Music, 1996[22]
Guitarist of the Year, Down Beat Readers' Poll, 1983, 1986–'91, 2007–2016
Best Jazz Guitarist, Guitar Player magazine, 1982, '83, '86
Best Jazz Guitarist, Guitar Player magazine Readers' Poll, '84, '85, 2009
Best Acoustic Guitarist, Acoustic Guitar magazine Readers' Poll, 2009
Echo Award for Best Guitar Instrumentalist – International for TAP: John Zorn's Book of Angels Vol. 20, 2014
Echo Award, International Ensemble of the Year, Kin, 2015
Missouri Music Hall of Fame, 2016
Lifetime Achievement Award, JazzFM, 2018
Elected into Royal Swedish Academy of Music, 2018
2018 NEA Jazz Masters, 2017[23][24]
Honorary Doctorate of Music from McGill University, 2019
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 15, 2019, 11:41:42 am
I do not own a Bose system and never plan on purchasing one. I can admit that one reason, (not the only reason) that I have never even considered purchasing one is because of the guys that I work around that own Bose systems and think they are the end all-be all for sound. I know that is not much of a reason, but it works for me.

But, with all the bashing that goes on concerning the Bose systems this post by Robert made me laugh (at myself).

Pat Metheny...What would he know?.....LOL. ;D  I would say he is qualified.

Only artist to win Grammy Awards in ten different categories[21]
Down Beat Hall of Fame, 2013
Miles Davis Award, Montreal International Jazz Festival, 1995
Orville H. Gibson Award, 1996
Honorary Doctorate of Music from Berklee College of Music, 1996[22]
Guitarist of the Year, Down Beat Readers' Poll, 1983, 1986–'91, 2007–2016
Best Jazz Guitarist, Guitar Player magazine, 1982, '83, '86
Best Jazz Guitarist, Guitar Player magazine Readers' Poll, '84, '85, 2009
Best Acoustic Guitarist, Acoustic Guitar magazine Readers' Poll, 2009
Echo Award for Best Guitar Instrumentalist – International for TAP: John Zorn's Book of Angels Vol. 20, 2014
Echo Award, International Ensemble of the Year, Kin, 2015
Missouri Music Hall of Fame, 2016
Lifetime Achievement Award, JazzFM, 2018
Elected into Royal Swedish Academy of Music, 2018
2018 NEA Jazz Masters, 2017[23][24]
Honorary Doctorate of Music from McGill University, 2019

Pat is a wonderful guitarist and composer.  Probably the best reason to like him was his description of saxophonist Kenny G "...he has a limited improvisational vocabulary".  8)

If Mr Metheny likes Bose, he's close to the mothership (a few miles on the Mass Pike) and probably has a guest pass in his car... but he's not providing audio to The Masses, which I think disqualifies him from *our* profession.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Caleb Dueck on October 15, 2019, 11:49:50 am
Pat is a wonderful guitarist and composer.  Probably the best reason to like him was his description of saxophonist Kenny G "...he has a limited improvisational vocabulary".  8)

If Mr Metheny likes Bose, he's close to the mothership (a few miles on the Mass Pike) and probably has a guest pass in his car... but he's not providing audio to The Masses, which I think disqualifies him from *our* profession.

You didn't go see the Clair-provided tour with all Bose?   ;)
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Steve Crump on October 15, 2019, 12:06:24 pm
Pat is a wonderful guitarist and composer.  Probably the best reason to like him was his description of saxophonist Kenny G "...he has a limited improvisational vocabulary".  8)

If Mr Metheny likes Bose, he's close to the mothership (a few miles on the Mass Pike) and probably has a guest pass in his car... but he's not providing audio to The Masses, which I think disqualifies him from *our* profession.


Touche...
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Mike Caldwell on October 15, 2019, 05:39:12 pm
For what ever it's worth in Pat's video it looked there were multiple towers, I'm going to say each one had a different mix of something going to it.

Saw him in a theater some years ago on a very non Bose PA and it sounded great.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Robert Lunceford on October 15, 2019, 05:42:36 pm
If Mr Metheny likes Bose, he's close to the mothership (a few miles on the Mass Pike) and probably has a guest pass in his car... but he's not providing audio to The Masses, which I think disqualifies him from *our* profession.

Mr Metheney undoubtedly prefers the sound achieved by his Bose system to the sound system that you would supply to provide audio to the masses. Mr Metheney seems to care more about quality than quantity. Wish there were more like him in the music business rather than those that turn music into hamburger for mass consumption.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 15, 2019, 08:31:12 pm
Mr Metheney undoubtedly prefers the sound achieved by his Bose system to the sound system that you would supply to provide audio to the masses. Mr Metheney seems to care more about quality than quantity. Wish there were more like him in the music business rather than those that turn music into hamburger for mass consumption.

If it's on stage, it's part of the back line rig.  If he likes it, fine.  I'll enjoy the music either way.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Steve Payne on October 15, 2019, 08:46:21 pm
Mr Metheney undoubtedly prefers the sound achieved by his Bose system to the sound system that you would supply to provide audio to the masses. Mr Metheney seems to care more about quality than quantity. Wish there were more like him in the music business rather than those that turn music into hamburger for mass consumption.

From the video it is stated that there are approximately a dozen of the Bose systems spread around on the stage.  Looks as if each instrument is amplified and reproduced on it's own Bose system.  Essentially being used as backline amps that Pat can control the balance of and in essence performing as a sort of stage monitor system for Pat personally.  Ground stacked line arrays (ugh) are clearly visible stage left and right presumably as the house PA.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: dave briar on October 15, 2019, 08:50:07 pm
For what ever it's worth in Pat's video it looked there were multiple towers, I'm going to say each one had a different mix of something going to it.
The FOH guy said “we have twelve altogether”.  My guess is you are correct, each tower handles a different “instrument”.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Robert Lunceford on October 16, 2019, 03:47:56 pm
The FOH guy said “we have twelve altogether”.  My guess is you are correct, each tower handles a different “instrument”.
Pat Metheney is using the L1 as intended. One L1 per instrument. This is what Bose recommends.
If you have a 5 piece band you should be using five L1 speakers. The Bose L1 is intended to be used as both a FOH speaker and monitor simultaneously. The L1 is placed behind the performer just as Metheney is doing.
I am not sure why “ the experts” come unglued when someone uses a Bose product and is happy with its performance. The mention of Bose on this forum is like waving a red rag at a bull.
Whenever a professional musician such as Pat Metheney uses a Bose product, it is typical for someone on this forum to speculate that the musician is only using the Bose because they are being paid by Bose to do so.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 16, 2019, 04:28:42 pm
Pat Metheney is using the L1 as intended. One L1 per instrument. This is what Bose recommends.
If you have a 5 piece band you should be using five L1 speakers. The Bose L1 is intended to be used as both a FOH speaker and monitor simultaneously. The L1 is placed behind the performer just as Metheney is doing.
I am not sure why “ the experts” come unglued when someone uses a Bose product and is happy with its performance. The mention of Bose on this forum is like waving a red rag at a bull.
Whenever a professional musician such as Pat Metheney uses a Bose product, it is typical for someone on this forum to speculate that the musician is only using the Bose because they are being paid by Bose to do so.

Because most of us are familiar with Bose's long history of successful marketing and lawsuit-happy legal department, perhaps?

I take no issue if a performer as accomplished as Pat Metheny, or as un-accomplished as might be found, prefer to use Bose products on stage, in rehearsal or recording or at home.  I don't care if they pay full list price or Bose gives it to them or even pays them to be seen with their products.  Those are individual decisions for that performer/act.

The reality of professional live sound reinforcement is that Bose's consumer marketing hype doesn't wash in most of *our* applications.  Bose makes nothing suitable for the majority of work that makes 80% of my employer's revenue but that doesn't stop clients from asking for a Bose "system" in the 5,000 seat multipurpose hall.  I tell them "sure, we can do that".  I'll bring my mom's Wave Radio.

Note Steve Payne's observation about the video - yes, you see the Bose products on stage but can also see the ground stacked line array.  My comments about the Bose devices being backline will stand.  The performer is using them as a source of localized sound production solely for their own instrument or voice... and I don't care what the performer uses to achieve that, it's not my job to tell them what to use; it's my job to share their performance with the hundreds or thousands who came to hear the performance.  Because that is *my* responsibility, I tend to choose products with a track record of success in providing quality audio to thousands.

Use what you want, Robert - that's all good - but lets not bullshit ourselves into thinking a collection of L1 does a PA system make.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Robert Lunceford on October 17, 2019, 12:42:36 pm

Use what you want, Robert - that's all good - but lets not bullshit ourselves into thinking a collection of L1 does a PA system make.

I don’t own any Bose Professional products. I have K-Array, FBT, and Danley speakers.
If I recall correctly, Bose states the L1 will easily cover a 300 seat theater.
The rock group Foreigner does use a collection of L1 speakers as their PA system for their small acoustic performances.
https://youtu.be/sibKEEBlfWs



Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Don T. Williams on October 17, 2019, 06:47:10 pm
If the Bose L1 is so good, why does Pat Metheny need the house line array and additional wedges placed on stage as seen in the video. These 12 systems are being used as instrument amplifiers.  He still needs powerful professional monitors and a real FOH sound system.  There is nothing wrong with what he is doing, but that's not his PA system and not what he needs for monitors.  He still needs a real professional system for sound reinforcement and monitoring as shown in the video.

You will also notice some additional Bose speakers being used a floor monitors aimed back at Foreigner.  And look at the size of the venue.  I call that small!  Do you see any 300 seat theaters where the Bose L1 is used as a house PA.  I don't think so.  As a replacement for a personal instrument amplifier and a personal monitor system in a small venue its Ok, but again it is not a front of house system despite what Bose advertising implies.  I'm betting that Pat Metheny and Foreigner paid nothing for the systems.  This wasn't money out of their pockets.  Again as used, in these examples they are acceptable, but this very situation specific.  A pair as a FOH system in a 300 seat theater is not going to work.  A dozen scattered around the stage is really iffy and would only work with a very limited type of act.  This business doesn't work on iffy!

One other point.  Have you seen the specifications for a Bose L1?  106dB max. (112dB peak) at 1M and -3 dB at 65 Hz and sells for $1000.00.  This is acceptable for a 300 seat theater? Really?  There are dozens of under $300.00 speakers that are 20 dB louder and go 10 to 15 Hz lower.  I'm not saying those speakers are adequate for a 300 seat theater either, but its a lot closer - at about 1/4 of the cost of the L1.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Geert Friedhof on October 17, 2019, 07:17:14 pm
... Bose Professional products...
https://youtu.be/sibKEEBlfWs

Sounds (pun intended) like a contradictio in terminis to me.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Tom Roche on October 17, 2019, 08:13:00 pm
We used an L1 Model 2 with B2 bass module and ToneMatch mixer (~$3300) strictly as a stage monitor.  We never taxed it, only running two vox, one acoustic guitar and just a little bass guitar.  It performs fine in that regard, but it's a terribly expensive monitor.  And it isn't magically immune to feedback.  As FOH, it's woefully inadequate for pretty much anything other than coffee shop acoustic gigs.  Using it outside is the worst IMO.  I think my home stereo gets louder and sounds better doing it.  Given cost and real world performance, I'll take an MI-level 12" top and sub any day.
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Robert Lunceford on October 18, 2019, 05:04:56 pm
I was flown in to be a “band engineer” at the Siletz Bay Music Fesival. The FOH PA was two L1 model II speakers. I would estimate that the venue seated around 200-250. The band was grand piano, upright bass, drum set, and four singers using Omni headset mics. I had no problem getting the singers above the band, and no issues with feedback. The vocals were very intelligible and the volume was adequate to be heard easily throughout the venue.

Bose did not invent the column array but they certainly made it popular. Since the introduction of the L1, there have been copy cat versions by almost every other competitor. I know quite a few musicians who own L1s and they all absolutely love them. Most musicians don’t really care to be audio engineers. They would rather not haul in and set up mixers, monitors, speakers, etc.  The L1 is popular because of its performance and simplicity.
As far as the cost of Bose,  take Scott’s post as an example. One of his clients was a band that had
hired his services in the past. For around what they might pay Scott to do four or five shows, they were able to purchase a Bose F1 system. Scott had doubts about the capabilities of the Bose F1 system but band engineers for Aerosmith, Santana, Shakira, Miles Davis, etc. gave favorable reviews of the F1 system deployed in a 1000 seat venue.

https://youtu.be/keUtck_F7es
Title: Re: Bose L1 Compact As FOH Speaker
Post by: Jerry Dycus on October 19, 2019, 07:55:19 am
I was flown in to be a “band engineer” at the Siletz Bay Music Fesival. The FOH PA was two L1 model II speakers. I would estimate that the venue seated around 200-250. The band was grand piano, upright bass, drum set, and four singers using Omni headset mics. I had no problem getting the singers above the band, and no issues with feedback. The vocals were very intelligible and the volume was adequate to be heard easily throughout the venue.

Bose did not invent the column array but they certainly made it popular. Since the introduction of the L1, there have been copy cat versions by almost every other competitor. I know quite a few musicians who own L1s and they all absolutely love them. Most musicians don’t really care to be audio engineers. They would rather not haul in and set up mixers, monitors, speakers, etc.  The L1 is popular because of its performance and simplicity.
As far as the cost of Bose,  take Scott’s post as an example. One of his clients was a band that had
hired his services in the past. For around what they might pay Scott to do four or five shows, they were able to purchase a Bose F1 system. Scott had doubts about the capabilities of the Bose F1 system but band engineers for Aerosmith, Santana, Shakira, Miles Davis, etc. gave favorable reviews of the F1 system deployed in a 1000 seat venue.

https://youtu.be/keUtck_F7es

I am the one who started this thread with my question about using the L1 Compact as a FOH speaker. I had used it only once, and was totally inexperienced with its use. Here is a message I posted on Bose forum yesterday: "I have sought and received good advice several times on this board and now want to share my experience. Yesterday, our quartet sang in an L shaped room about 30'x60'. I lined the singers up shoulder to shoulder, each with a hand held microphone into a Yamaha MG12XU feeding channel 2 of the L1 Compact place about 3' directly behind the middle singer. The L1 filled the room with great sound for the audience, plenty of monitor for the singers, and the great news, no problem whatsoever with feedback. My speaker equipment load changed from over 100 lbs. to 29 lbs. My setup time was cut in half. Equipment footprint in the venue was drastically reduced. The mess of speaker cables and power cables previously spread across the floor was cleaned up. I couldn't be happier with my investment in the L1 Compact." I do not provide sound for hundreds or thousands like many of you do, and I apologize if I offended you ability to do so.