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Title: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 21, 2019, 10:14:12 pm
A couple of current threads got me thinking maybe I should get a more powerful WAP.
Yes, I have had AMAZING performance from my Airport Express routers  as I have commented on many times here but it would be nice to be able to get a bit more distance from the stage reliably sometimes.

A couple (?) of years ago, I was getting advice from folks here and the Ubiquiti Bullet ( I believe) was mentioned - since then I have seen some of the nightmares members have had trying to configure some models - this one in particular.
This is the kind of thing that makes me nervous upgrading to a dedicated WAP as opposed to a router.   " If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"  comes to mind.
Anyway, is there a suitable WAP that wouldn't cause me to lose sleep trying to configure it ? - I have limited knowledge about these things and I need something that will be a relatively easy set up.....
Currently - iPad controls A & H QU-PAC/ SQ6 and Art Net DMX lighting.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Bob Stone on August 21, 2019, 11:05:00 pm
Stick with what you have...Ubiquiti stuff is awesome, but it's not as user friendly and there are limits to RF.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Brian Adams on August 21, 2019, 11:37:33 pm
Debbie, I'm in the same boat. I use Airport Express routers, sometimes up to 4-5 of them at once, all sharing the same network between consoles or to extend the network to other areas. I'd love to replicate that setup with something more robust (in terms of performance), but I haven't been able to find anything that checks all the boxes I need it to.

I wouldn't mind a little setup on the front end as long as it works every time. I've programmed Ubiquiti point to point dishes before, and they were only a tiny bit frustrating. I can certainly handle that. I get into a lot of venues where my Airport Express wifi gets a little sketchy for a while, and a few who's spectrum is so crowded I can hardly get anything to work at all. I really need to find something better soon.

If you find anything that works, let me know!
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Dave Bednarski on August 22, 2019, 08:02:37 am
My Rack: https://dbmisc.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/IMG_6776.JPG

It’s been 2-3 years now without an issue.  As others have said the Ubiquiti stuff has a slight curve but has been set-it-and-forget-it.  I carry two access points as backup or when we do separate monitor & FOH positions.  The PoE power of the access points is wonderful.

Shallow 10” rack - no need to access the rear of the unit.  The drawer is great, keeps the rack self contained.  The Whirlwind PowerLinks are in all of my racks for low-power-draw devices - its very streamlined.

I carry a Amplifi Instant Router (https://amplifi.com/instant) in my backpack for walk-on jobs or if when I want to use the iPad as a nice to have supplement to the console.  Pro… tiny and I can power it from the USB port on consoles.  Range is decent in small crowds.  Con… needs frequent hard resets!  Would not recommend at this time (hopefully future firmware makes it more stable).  :-(

Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Scott Olewiler on August 22, 2019, 08:46:13 am
I'm dubious of some of the comments on here in many previous threads about the need for a high end wifi solution.

For the past 6 years I have been using 3 very cheap ( less than $40) consumer grade routers with wifi including a Belkin unit that is probably 15 years old now and we have only experienced a serious connection issue one time. None of our routers are 5ghz capable. Only mixers we've connected to are a dl1608 and an X32 Producer.

My experience makes it hard for me to understand why so many people seem to have issues with reliable connections.

On outside jobs I have stayed connected up to 200 ft away from routers that only publish a 75 ft range. Of course we are ONLY connected to the mixer router and the mixer  itself with no  cellular data network of any type or light controller etc. connected.

I have to wonder if the folks having issues also have cellular service enabled on their tablets or are performing other tasks with it. Maybe it's not the wifi connection, but that the tablets are being asked to perform to many functions at once?
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: John Schalk on August 22, 2019, 09:01:54 am
Debbie,

I decided to try adding a Ubiquity WAP to our Apple Airport Extreme strictly for outdoor, festival type situations.  My experience outdoors with the Airport Extreme was that I had maybe 40' - 60' of range, but beyond that, I would start to have dropouts.  Since we added an M32 core to our DL32 rack to allow us to use our own mics and normal stage setup for festivals (just give the house LR+Sub), I needed something with more range so I could mix the band on a tablet at larger events.  The Ubiquity Mesh AP (skinny one with 2 antennas in the picture above) worked really well for this so if you need more range for your band's LAN, then I think a WAP is worth the effort.  However, if you're not experiencing dropouts while you use your tablets and phones, then stick with what you have is my advice.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 22, 2019, 09:53:53 am
I'm dubious of some of the comments on here in many previous threads about the need for a high end wifi solution.

For the past 6 years I have been using 3 very cheap ( less than $40) consumer grade routers with wifi including a Belkin unit that is probably 15 years old now and we have only experienced a serious connection issue one time. None of our routers are 5ghz capable. Only mixers we've connected to are a dl1608 and an X32 Producer.

My experience makes it hard for me to understand why so many people seem to have issues with reliable connections.

On outside jobs I have stayed connected up to 200 ft away from routers that only publish a 75 ft range. Of course we are ONLY connected to the mixer router and the mixer  itself with no  cellular data network of any type or light controller etc. connected.

I have to wonder if the folks having issues also have cellular service enabled on their tablets or are performing other tasks with it. Maybe it's not the wifi connection, but that the tablets are being asked to perform to many functions at once?

I too wonder sometimes why folks have such a hard time staying connected but put it down to them living in heavier populated areas than me. 
Like I said, I get fantastic results from my little AE's and couldn't be happier with the service they have given me. Stability has NEVER been an issue. 
However, when I first started using remote mixing through routers a few years ago I hardly ever had problems using either 2.4/5gHz and kept my router in a rack. As the air waves have become more and more congested, I have had to adapt to using 5gHz every show and removing the router from the rack and raise it up nice and high.
Getting something to extend the range would be the next step for me I suppose....
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 22, 2019, 09:59:39 am
Debbie,

I decided to try adding a Ubiquity WAP to our Apple Airport Extreme strictly for outdoor, festival type situations.  My experience outdoors with the Airport Extreme was that I had maybe 40' - 60' of range, but beyond that, I would start to have dropouts.  Since we added an M32 core to our DL32 rack to allow us to use our own mics and normal stage setup for festivals (just give the house LR+Sub), I needed something with more range so I could mix the band on a tablet at larger events.  The Ubiquity Mesh AP (skinny one with 2 antennas in the picture above) worked really well for this so if you need more range for your band's LAN, then I think a WAP is worth the effort.  However, if you're not experiencing dropouts while you use your tablets and phones, then stick with what you have is my advice.

That's just it John, I get hardly any drop out - it is rare. I would just like to extend the range of what I have but I'm not going to cause myself any headaches doing it. What I have works so I don't NEED to make a change but on the odd outdoor show, I would like to be able to get better distance between me and the stage whilst using the iPad.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Brian Adams on August 22, 2019, 10:05:31 am
John, I've considered the Ubiquiti Mesh AP.

My typical setup is an Airport Express in each mixer case to "extend" the network to that mixer (connected to the LAN port on the Express), and then a master unit that each of them talk to over wifi. This keeps all the mixers (sometimes 3-4 at once) on the same network, which allows me to quickly switch between mixers, and the IP's are always the same no matter the quantity or configuration of the mixers. It's also nice not having to physically connect the mixer networks to each other. I can use any mixer by itself or with any others, and it's easy.

This setup works fine, until it doesn't. Venues with crowded spectrum are a problem, and shows with large audiences can make it drop out for a while (sometimes the whole show). The range isn't so much an issue for me, it's reliability in all situations. I really need to find a better solution.

I'm having a hard time figuring out if I could setup a few Mesh AP's similarly to my current setup, or if I'd have to entirely reconsider how I do things. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Litscher on August 22, 2019, 10:49:03 am
I was a strong supporter and proponent of the Airport Express - I had seven of them and regularly checked eBay to see if any decent used versions were available. They are great little devices.

That said... mine started acting-up with my old dLive rig. I'm not sure if it was a firmware update or what, but they went from having more range and reliability than they should to becoming flaky and finicky. In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have updated all of their firmware in one fell swoop, but what's the saying about 20/20 vision?

So, I made the switch to Ubiquiti. It was semi-painful, primarily because the Ubiquiti devices are so flexible and can be configured in an almost endless array of situations. Most of the tutorials are geared toward people who have a full network (WAN connectivity and so on), so extrapolating what's really needed was frustrating to me.

I eventually landed on what has proven to be a completely bulletproof configuration - the Ubiquiti Unifi Mesh AP, connected to a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter. The entire set-up cost less than $140 and is uber-compact and beyond rock solid.

My beginner's tip/trick: you *need* to connect the Mesh AP to an active, working network (doesn't have to be your "final" network, just something with a live router that has DHCP and internet connectivity) so that you can configure it with the Unifi application. Figuring this out was the key to success.

I've been re-homing the AEs ever since making the switch, and I just ordered two more Mesh APs and an EdgeRouter for an upcoming tour.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: John Schalk on August 22, 2019, 11:52:45 am
My beginner's tip/trick: you *need* to connect the Mesh AP to an active, working network (doesn't have to be your "final" network, just something with a live router that has DHCP and internet connectivity) so that you can configure it with the Unifi application. Figuring this out was the key to success.
This was my experience as well.  For more on my Ubiquity journey you can checkout this thread:

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,171524.0.html (https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,171524.0.html)

I have not yet dealt with turning off the uplink, so I'm curious to hear if Steve has done that for his setup or not?

My only other tiny con to going with the Mesh AP is that it's really designed for permanent installations so the cover for the Ethernet connection has a nice rubber seal, but it's not something that will probably survive a lot of connections.  I was thinking about using a 15' Ethernet cable semi-permanently attached to the Mesh AP, and then using a jumper to add more when I want to locate the WAP downstage for larger setups.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: frank kayser on August 22, 2019, 12:25:24 pm
Hi Debbie,
I'm also using the Airport for my console connection.


When I suspect I need more range, I add a small switch, and an additional WAP/Bridge - I'm using the Engenius ENH500, a 5ghz only directional device in AP mode.  Also, I've been needing a switch on the rig for other things, so it is plug it in, power it up and literally walk (farther) away. My Airport 2.4 and 5ghz use the same SSID, but I give the ENH5000 AP a different ID and frequency.  Works like a champ.  Configured once, and go anywhere.
 https://www.engeniustech.com/engenius-products/outdoor-wireless-bridge-enh500/


I use Ubiquity Unifi gear at home as a test bed for the network I've got set up at the cafe.  I do love the gear, but for our use for console control, a bit fussy for my liking.  The Airport, switch and ENH500 are plug and go.


YMMV.


frank


Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 22, 2019, 12:39:09 pm
Hi Debbie,
I'm also using the Airport for my console connection.


When I suspect I need more range, I add a small switch, and an additional WAP/Bridge - I'm using the Engenius ENH500, a 5ghz only directional device in AP mode.  Also, I've been needing a switch on the rig for other things, so it is plug it in, power it up and literally walk (farther) away. My Airport 2.4 and 5ghz use the same SSID, but I give the ENH5000 AP a different ID and frequency.  Works like a champ.  Configured once, and go anywhere.
 https://www.engeniustech.com/engenius-products/outdoor-wireless-bridge-enh500/


I use Ubiquity Unifi gear at home as a test bed for the network I've got set up at the cafe.  I do love the gear, but for our use for console control, a bit fussy for my liking.  The Airport, switch and ENH500 are plug and go.


YMMV.


frank

Hi Frank... I already have a rack mount switch installed so adding an extender wouldn't be a problem.
So you keep the extender with the router? This is what I am thinking - just something I can quickly connect to the switch (router) and raise up so I can walk farther away.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Garris on August 22, 2019, 12:43:38 pm
I've been using the AE for about 8 years now. It has gradually gotten worse and the past couple of years it is becoming a problem. Mine is still set for dual 2.5/5, but I don't want to mess with it during my busy season. Tonight is my last summer concert show, so next month I'm ready to make a change. My iPads are all dedicated for mixing so their not the issue. I recently did an outside show on a street patio, and the 25 people there caused so much rf interference that my connection was only good about 50% of the time. I had the AE up on a stand with mostly clear line of site.

I've been following the Ui24 facebook page and a few people there have had excellent results with the Ubiquiti: https://bhpho.to/2Zb6zqM
So I'm going to set up my Ui with the Ubiquiti, and then change my DL1608/AE system to 5GHz
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 22, 2019, 12:50:11 pm
I've been using the AE for about 8 years now. It has gradually gotten worse and the past couple of years it is becoming a problem. Mine is still set for dual 2.5/5, but I don't want to mess with it during my busy season. Tonight is my last summer concert show, so next month I'm ready to make a change. My iPads are all dedicated for mixing so their not the issue. I recently did an outside show on a street patio, and the 25 people there caused so much rf interference that my connection was only good about 50% of the time. I had the AE up on a stand with mostly clear line of site.

I've been following the Ui24 facebook page and a few people there have had excellent results with the Ubiquiti: https://bhpho.to/2Zb6zqM
So I'm going to set up my Ui with the Ubiquiti, and then change my DL1608/AE system to 5GHz

I've been ONLY using 5gHz now for a couple of years and it changed everything for me - before that even though the AE should be choosing the band most suitable, just having the 2.4 available caused problems.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 22, 2019, 12:52:46 pm
So should I get an extender and use it with the AE OR replace the AE with a WAP??
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Jason Joseph on August 22, 2019, 01:11:56 pm
Like everyone said if its not broke dont try to fix it.. If you wanted to get something that works like all three to extend your range look up the DODOCOOL AP750.

It can be setup as a repeater to your existing AE for times when range becomes an issue. Wireless N and AC bands..
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: frank kayser on August 22, 2019, 01:19:15 pm
Hi Frank... I already have a rack mount switch installed so adding an extender wouldn't be a problem.
So you keep the extender with the router? This is what I am thinking - just something I can quickly connect to the switch (router) and raise up so I can walk farther away.


Once you have it configured once (at home), plug and go.  It is fairly directional so it can reach out a bit farther than the Airport.  I velcro-strap mine to the pop-up leg or a speaker/light pole.  You can set it out farther as a satellite extension, but in that case, you'd want to set the SSID the same as the airport, but a different frequency, so you can roam between the two.  SSID password must also match...


As far as roaming among APs, I've got three Ubiquity/Unifi APs in the cafe, all running the same SSID so we can seamlessly roam from one room to another.  For that location, the Ubiquity Unifi system is the right answer.


I keep the AP handy the router, switch, and AP stored with the QU-Pac.


To be clear, this AP needs hard-wire to a switch - this is not a wireless range extender.


frank
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 22, 2019, 01:37:55 pm

Once you have it configured once (at home), plug and go.  It is fairly directional so it can reach out a bit farther than the Airport.  I velcro-strap mine to the pop-up leg or a speaker/light pole.  You can set it out farther as a satellite extension, but in that case, you'd want to set the SSID the same as the airport, but a different frequency, so you can roam between the two.  SSID password must also match...


As far as roaming among APs, I've got three Ubiquity/Unifi APs in the cafe, all running the same SSID so we can seamlessly roam from one room to another.  For that location, the Ubiquity Unifi system is the right answer.


I keep the AP handy the router, switch, and AP stored with the QU-Pac.


To be clear, this AP needs hard-wire to a switch - this is not a wireless range extender.


frank

Thanks Frank. What kind of distances are you getting?
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Taylor Hall on August 22, 2019, 01:39:41 pm
For a second I was very confused and trying to figure out why Debbie wanted to start using a 20 year old mobile device data protocol.

One thing that could help would be to do a wifi spectrum scan to see if there's a lot of traffic or if there are channels that are getting too crowded. There are lots of free ones out there, netstumbler, Wifi Analyzer, etc etc. Basically like WWB but for wifi.

I'm not too familiar with the Airport line, do they have external antennas? If so you might be able to upgrade them to something with a higher gain or more directional pattern so you can roam a bit more freely.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 22, 2019, 01:57:45 pm
For a second I was very confused and trying to figure out why Debbie wanted to start using a 20 year old mobile device data protocol.

One thing that could help would be to do a wifi spectrum scan to see if there's a lot of traffic or if there are channels that are getting too crowded. There are lots of free ones out there, netstumbler, Wifi Analyzer, etc etc. Basically like WWB but for wifi.

I'm not too familiar with the Airport line, do they have external antennas? If so you might be able to upgrade them to something with a higher gain or more directional pattern so you can roam a bit more freely.

Oh I wish - now that would be the perfect option but alas - the AE is a tiny little thing with internal antennas.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: frank kayser on August 22, 2019, 02:06:01 pm
Thanks Frank. What kind of distances are you getting?


Hmmm... Interesting question. I had to go to Google maps to measure - something I never did.
Normal airport range is between 70' and 100'.  If I get it high and out of the trees, maybe 200-225' or so?  Like a cardiod mic, this APs pattern is more elliptical.
5ghz is in rare use there yet. Foliage seems to break up 5ghz more than 2.4ghz. 

Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Taylor Hall on August 22, 2019, 02:24:09 pm
Oh I wish - now that would be the perfect option but alas - the AE is a tiny little thing with internal antennas.
Barring extra antennas, height will be your next friend. Direct line of sight does wonders for weak wifi.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Litscher on August 22, 2019, 02:31:18 pm
This was my experience as well.  For more on my Ubiquity journey you can checkout this thread:

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,171524.0.html (https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,171524.0.html)

I have not yet dealt with turning off the uplink, so I'm curious to hear if Steve has done that for his setup or not?

My only other tiny con to going with the Mesh AP is that it's really designed for permanent installations so the cover for the Ethernet connection has a nice rubber seal, but it's not something that will probably survive a lot of connections.  I was thinking about using a 15' Ethernet cable semi-permanently attached to the Mesh AP, and then using a jumper to add more when I want to locate the WAP downstage for larger setups.

It's funny - I saw your thread just after I posted here and I completely empathized with your initial configuration woes!

I have not turned-off the uplink, but I'll play around with it when I configure the "touring Ubiquiti" rig.

Regarding the cover on the AP, I just leave my ethernet cable connected to the AP at all times. When I'm putting things away at the end of the day, I unscrew the two antennas and then coil the cable into my rack with the Mesh AP still attached. Works really well.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 22, 2019, 02:57:09 pm
Barring extra antennas, height will be your next friend. Direct line of sight does wonders for weak wifi.

The signal I get isn't weak at all - I get the router up nice and high at shows. Thank goodness it is small and not too conspicuous.
It is simply the distance I am looking for.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Rob Spence on August 22, 2019, 03:26:48 pm
My concern with range extenders would be any added latency. It is a repeater after all so it has to receive the data , then retransmit it, then do the same with the acknowledgement.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 22, 2019, 04:26:25 pm
My concern with range extenders would be any added latency. It is a repeater after all so it has to receive the data , then retransmit it, then do the same with the acknowledgement.

Good point Rob. I wonder if some are better than others -  I can afford a little latency for remote mixing but not so much with my  wireless light control.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: dave briar on August 22, 2019, 04:39:13 pm
I was like you Debbie a few months ago. For years I’d just set an old consumer-grade router on top of the mixer case stage side and never had a problem.  If it ain’t broke...well, you know.  But then I thought it wise to at least exert due diligence and get an antenna/AP up above everyone’s heads to maintain line of sight at bigger events and so added a Ubiquiti UAP-AC-LR (long range/flying saucer form factor) using the old router as a switch/DHCP server. It works great too. Someday I’ll probably replace the old router with a Ubiquiti Edge router as it has POE lan ports which would allow me to remove the POE injector I had to add and presently have zip-tied inside my rack case but it works well as is.

That said, my takeaway from a thread I started a few months ago was that while maintaining line-of-sight is certainly helpful the vulnerability in larger crowds likely comes more from probe requests and broadcast storms swamping the CPU and internal processing of the router/AP. To that end I turned off the 2.4 GHz radios in both the old router and the AP.  I mean I don’t use them so why load the processors down with unnecessary tasks.  Best of luck in your quest!
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 22, 2019, 05:29:06 pm
I was like you Debbie a few months ago. For years I’d just set an old consumer-grade router on top of the mixer case stage side and never had a problem.  If it ain’t broke...well, you know.  But then I thought it wise to at least exert due diligence and get an antenna/AP up above everyone’s heads to maintain line of sight at bigger events and so added a Ubiquiti UAP-AC-LR (long range/flying saucer form factor) using the old router as a switch/DHCP server. It works great too. Someday I’ll probably replace the old router with a Ubiquiti Edge router as it has POE lan ports which would allow me to remove the POE injector I had to add and presently have zip-tied inside my rack case but it works well as is.

That said, my takeaway from a thread I started a few months ago was that while maintaining line-of-sight is certainly helpful the vulnerability in larger crowds likely comes more from probe requests and broadcast storms swamping the CPU and internal processing of the router/AP. To that end I turned off the 2.4 GHz radios in both the old router and the AP.  I mean I don’t use them so why load the processors down with unnecessary tasks.  Best of luck in your quest!

Thanks Dave ... I only access 5g in the Express and get that thing as high as I can. I have never had the connection problems some others have. As soon as 2.4g became a little iffy as time went on, I immediately switched auto 5g nd haven't had a problem since.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: John L Nobile on August 22, 2019, 05:37:46 pm
Do you use a hidden SSID? Not only is it more secure but it keeps the roomful of phones from trying to connect to your AP.

5ghz is less congested but has shorter range and is affected more by obstructions. I use a hidden SSID at 2.4 ghz.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 22, 2019, 05:44:25 pm
Do you use a hidden SSID? Not only is it more secure but it keeps the roomful of phones from trying to connect to your AP.

5ghz is less congested but has shorter range and is affected more by obstructions. I use a hidden SSID at 2.4 ghz.

I have used a hidden network from day 1 but 2.4g still doesn't work well. 5g works great so I stick with it. If I switch to 2.4g, I get nothing but disconnects.

As we are driving up to VA tomorrow for a show at the lake, I won't get time to go shopping so I just pulled the trigger on the Ubiquiti mesh from Amazon - delivery saturday. Free return shipping is offered on this item so I get the chance to play around with it to make sure I can get it to work with my set up without risk.
I'll report back....
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: David Winners on August 22, 2019, 08:28:09 pm
I'm jumping on this bandwagon.

(2) X32 Racks and a wired laptop plus up to 8 wireless devices.

I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X and Unifi AC Mesh.

That will fill the available router jacks, but I can add a switch later if the need arises.

Does anyone see any issues with this setup?

Thanks,
David
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: James Paul on August 22, 2019, 08:36:40 pm
Much info and experience to chew on.
IMO, i suggest to consider adding a Ubiquiti AC AP LR to your AE. Setup the AP from the iPad Ubiquiti App. Have no fear, I have faith you and your mate can handle setup.
The Ubiquiti Long Range AP is better suited compared to the other Unifi models for yours and the majority of the lot of end users found on this thread/ forum, due to the symmetrical long range antenna, which provides better reception from handheld devices.
Be aware that this model is part of the Unifi lineup, and is capable of integrating into a mesh system, but for yours needs this is not only unnecessary, but unadvised if only for simplicity reasons alone.
Furthermore I would avoid repeaters as there is a tax on speed, and devices attempting connection between radios when moving between antennas. 
IME, my Ubiquiti AC Pro LR, with Edgerouter X combo, has proven to be a reliable, compact, powerful RF & software configurable setup. Well worth the money. Velco/ gaff tape the AP to top or bottom of a SOS, connected with a POE cat5e STP, makes for an easy gig deployment.
Note: FWIW, I remember moderator Tim M. posting as having a similar Ubiquiti combo for home use.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on August 23, 2019, 01:24:31 am
I have used a hidden network from day 1 but 2.4g still doesn't work well. 5g works great so I stick with it. If I switch to 2.4g, I get nothing but disconnects.

As we are driving up to VA tomorrow for a show at the lake, I won't get time to go shopping so I just pulled the trigger on the Ubiquiti mesh from Amazon - delivery saturday. Free return shipping is offered on this item so I get the chance to play around with it to make sure I can get it to work with my set up without risk.
I'll report back....


I don't know much (really anything) about the mesh.  The Unifi is the model I am most familiar with.  Keep in mind you won't get better range from one unit to another.  Maybe some really inexpensive router/AP have very deficient radios but certainly the AE and the UniFi have equally performant RF sections.  5Ghz is line of site.  If you can't see it, it is not reliable.  More talk power doesn't help, and can often hurt as you still have to talk back to the unit.   Keeping it high is the most important thing you can do, then hiding SSID. 

You can use the AE to provide DHCP services if you need to auto assign IP's.  It's as cheap an option as anything.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: dave briar on August 23, 2019, 03:45:16 am
Keeping it high is the most important thing you can do, then hiding SSID. 
Scott, does hiding the SSID reduce the number of probe requests the unit has to respond to?
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 23, 2019, 11:32:29 am

I don't know much (really anything) about the mesh.  The Unifi is the model I am most familiar with.  Keep in mind you won't get better range from one unit to another.  Maybe some really inexpensive router/AP have very deficient radios but certainly the AE and the UniFi have equally performant RF sections.  5Ghz is line of site.  If you can't see it, it is not reliable.  More talk power doesn't help, and can often hurt as you still have to talk back to the unit.   Keeping it high is the most important thing you can do, then hiding SSID. 

You can use the AE to provide DHCP services if you need to auto assign IP's.  It's as cheap an option as anything.

I might certainly already have as good as I am going to get and that is another reason why I am making sure I can return this WAP if need be. My main consideration is distance so unless this offers me more than the AE, it might just be a waste of money to me.
With that said, there is one more advantage to using a WAP such as this instead of an AE  router and that is aesthetics. I made a little stand that attaches to a boom mic stand so I can get the router up high. Even though the AE is small and to a certain extent inconspicuous, it would be nice to have something that when attached to a stand looks a bit more professional.

edit : sorry looks like the image rotated on me when I uploaded....
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 23, 2019, 11:47:54 am
Much info and experience to chew on.
IMO, i suggest to consider adding a Ubiquiti AC AP LR to your AE. Setup the AP from the iPad Ubiquiti App. Have no fear, I have faith you and your mate can handle setup.
The Ubiquiti Long Range AP is better suited compared to the other Unifi models for yours and the majority of the lot of end users found on this thread/ forum, due to the symmetrical long range antenna, which provides better reception from handheld devices.
Be aware that this model is part of the Unifi lineup, and is capable of integrating into a mesh system, but for yours needs this is not only unnecessary, but unadvised if only for simplicity reasons alone.
Furthermore I would avoid repeaters as there is a tax on speed, and devices attempting connection between radios when moving between antennas. 
IME, my Ubiquiti AC Pro LR, with Edgerouter X combo, has proven to be a reliable, compact, powerful RF & software configurable setup. Well worth the money. Velco/ gaff tape the AP to top or bottom of a SOS, connected with a POE cat5e STP, makes for an easy gig deployment.
Note: FWIW, I remember moderator Tim M. posting as having a similar Ubiquiti combo for home use.

That is what I'm using at home - Edgerouter X and UAP AC LR.

I'm not a moderator - my super hero powers do not extend to the PSW forums. ;)
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Garris on August 23, 2019, 12:23:51 pm
Much info and experience to chew on.
IMO, i suggest to consider adding a Ubiquiti AC AP LR to your AE. Setup the AP from the iPad Ubiquiti App. Have no fear, I have faith you and your mate can handle setup.
The Ubiquiti Long Range AP is better suited compared to the other Unifi models for yours and the majority of the lot of end users found on this thread/ forum, due to the symmetrical long range antenna, which provides better reception from handheld devices.
Be aware that this model is part of the Unifi lineup, and is capable of integrating into a mesh system, but for yours needs this is not only unnecessary, but unadvised if only for simplicity reasons alone.
Furthermore I would avoid repeaters as there is a tax on speed, and devices attempting connection between radios when moving between antennas. 
IME, my Ubiquiti AC Pro LR, with Edgerouter X combo, has proven to be a reliable, compact, powerful RF & software configurable setup. Well worth the money. Velco/ gaff tape the AP to top or bottom of a SOS, connected with a POE cat5e STP, makes for an easy gig deployment.
Note: FWIW, I remember moderator Tim M. posting as having a similar Ubiquiti combo for home use.

Is this what you are talking about? I'm looking for a simple, one-unit AP, that I can set up and use in place of an Airport Express.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1189144-REG/ubiquiti_networks_uap_ac_lr_us_802_11ac_long_range.html
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Rob Spence on August 23, 2019, 12:39:08 pm
The reasons I like the mesh unit is it is designed to mount to a vertical thing like a post or such and it is weather resistant which means I don’t need to be concerned about it while covering other stuff in the event of rain.

I use the dish models at home where they typically mount to ceilings etc.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: dave briar on August 23, 2019, 02:22:30 pm
Is this what you are talking about? I'm looking for a simple, one-unit AP, that I can set up and use in place of an Airport Express.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1189144-REG/ubiquiti_networks_uap_ac_lr_us_802_11ac_long_range.html
Yes. That’s what I use and Tim was talking about but remember you will still need a switch, DHCP server, and a POE injector. The Ubiquiti Edgerouter X provides all three of those functions.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Frank Koenig on August 23, 2019, 03:12:32 pm
For what it's worth, I've had 3 Ubiquiti UniFi AP AC PROs for about 3 years, one for the home, one for the cabin, and one Velcroed to the top of the mixrack. They all work great. The home one covers the entire suburban property, the cabin one reaches 250 ft. to an outbuilding (in an admittedly very quiet RF environment), and the one on the mixer has never let me down. I use it mostly at fairly short range (on or near stage) in not super-crowded environments.

At the cabin I also have a pair of Ubiquiti airMax NanoBeams that provide a 1/2 mi. link between where we get our terrestrial wireless Internet and the cabin. They operate at 5 GHz and became rock-solid once I cut all the vegetation along the line-of-sight. With higher frequencies RF techs need to carry a chain saw and loppers ;) The ISP at the cabin also uses Ubiquiti on their side. The tech told me our service involves 5 hops. Dunno if that's true.

--Frank
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 23, 2019, 03:38:39 pm
The ISP at the cabin also uses Ubiquiti on their side. The tech told me our service involves 5 hops. Dunno if that's true.

--Frank

Do a tracert from a command line (formerly known as DOS) window.  Will show ping times for each network hop, up to 30 hops.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Frank Koenig on August 23, 2019, 03:44:11 pm
Do a tracert from a command line (formerly known as DOS) window.  Will show ping times for each network hop, up to 30 hops.

Cool, thanks. I'll try that when I'm next there. -F
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 24, 2019, 07:42:20 pm
Well, I never seem to get very far without hurdle of some kind. Problem is I don't have the knowledge to know how to proceed.
The Ubiquiti mesh arrived today and I am trying to get it configured. Haven't even got that far yet though.
I downloaded the controller but as soon as I try to open in a browser I get security warnings pop up both in Safari and Forefox ( I'm using my Mac to configure). Do I ignore the warnings and continue?
Also, right now I am connected in the usual way to the internet using the household Cisco router. At what point should I connect the Ubiquiti and how? I know this might seem very obvious to some of you but I become hesitant and nervous of doing something wrong when I don't understand it fully ..
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Frank Koenig on August 24, 2019, 08:02:38 pm
Well, I never seem to get very far without hurdle of some kind. Problem is I don't have the knowledge to know how to proceed.
The Ubiquiti mesh arrived today and I am trying to get it configured. Haven't even got that far yet though.
I downloaded the controller but as soon as I try to open in a browser I get security warnings pop up both in Safari and Forefox ( I'm using my Mac to configure). Do I ignore the warnings and continue?
Also, right now I am connected in the usual way to the internet using the household Cisco router. At what point should I connect the Ubiquiti and how? I know this might seem very obvious to some of you but I become hesitant and nervous of doing something wrong when I don't understand it fully ..

Debbie, I'm far from the expert in any of this but I may be the only one not working this weekend, so I'll respond. Ignore the security warnings. It will be fine. If the new device wants a DHCP server, which is likely, connecting it to your LAN with the Cisco router should provide that. Once you get to the device with the controller program you should be able to configure the device as needed. You can then move it over to your non-Internet connected, and possibly non-DHCP, audio LAN.

As for understanding things (anything) fully, I think that era ended sometime last century  :(

--Frank
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 24, 2019, 08:07:31 pm
Debbie, I'm far from the expert in any of this but I may be the only one not working this weekend, so I'll respond. Ignore the security warnings. It will be fine. If the new device wants a DHCP server, which is likely, connecting it to your LAN with the Cisco router should provide that. Once you get to the device with the controller program you should be able to configure the device as needed. You can then move it over to your non-Internet connected, and possibly non-DHCP, audio LAN.

As for understanding things (anything) fully, I think that era ended sometime last century  :(

--Frank
Thanks Frank I move ahead. I was more concerned than usual because the warnings were so 'in your face'...... I suppose the browsers are trying to protect me...
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 24, 2019, 08:19:04 pm
Maybe this is all beyond me or I am just too impatient. I am now into the controller and was asked to set up a network name. That was easy but the next page wants me to sign in with my credentials...... what credentials???
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 24, 2019, 09:55:29 pm
So I finally worked out how to get into the controller. It looks like I have been able to set it up for 2.4gHz but cannot find a way to set it up for 5gHz. Also when my iPad scans it finds 2 networks- the one is the name I gave the new network and the other is that name plus '.lot' at the end.
I am unable to connect with my mixer right now but I assume that is because I assigned an IP address to it years ago. I thought leaving the Ubiquiti in DHCP mode would still work though...... continuing to get it all sorted ..
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Frank Koenig on August 24, 2019, 10:13:52 pm
So I finally worked out how to get into the controller. It looks like I have been able to set it up for 2.4gHz but cannot find a way to set it up for 5gHz. Also when my iPad scans it finds 2 networks- the one is the name I gave the new network and the other is that name plus '.lot' at the end.
I am unable to connect with my mixer right now but I assume that is because I assigned an IP address to it years ago. I thought leaving the Ubiquiti in DHCP mode would still work though...... continuing to get it all sorted ..

Alas, this is beyond my knowledge. Keep screwing around with it and keep track of all that you change so that you can back out anything that breaks it. It sounds like you're close. You'll get it. -F
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 24, 2019, 10:16:39 pm
Alas, this is beyond my knowledge. Keep screwing around with it and keep track of all that you change so that you can back out anything that breaks it. It sounds like you're close. You'll get it. -F

Thanks Frank..I found out that the .lot suffix refers to the 2G network... getting closer. The IP address thing is causing me problems so maybe I'll wait for the network gurus to help me with that .... I hope so anyway  ;)
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on August 25, 2019, 03:59:35 am
Do a tracert from a command line (formerly known as DOS) window.  Will show ping times for each network hop, up to 30 hops.

Tim, 

Those hops are likely layer. 2 and would not show on a trace route. 
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 25, 2019, 11:26:32 am
I can't seem to change the DHCP range on the settings page for the Ubiquiti. I am sure I am missing something.  Is anyone familiar with the Ubiquiti controller and could help me get the IP address section right? This is the part I always struggle with.
I even opened up Airport Utility - the control app for the AE - to cross reference the info but it doesn't help me very much.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: frank kayser on August 25, 2019, 01:14:55 pm
I can't seem to change the DHCP range on the settings page for the Ubiquiti. I am sure I am missing something.  Is anyone familiar with the Ubiquiti controller and could help me get the IP address section right? This is the part I always struggle with.
I even opened up Airport Utility - the control app for the AE - to cross reference the info but it doesn't help me very much.


Debbie,
in the controller, go to the gear icon.
Under networks, edit the network you've set up.
The "usual" settings are there.


Back out, then go to wireless networks
Edit the wireless network you've created.
This is where data about the wireless live i.e., SSID, Hidden, etc
frank
PM me if you need to walk through it step by step.

Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Rob Spence on August 25, 2019, 03:32:22 pm
Debby, the dhcp range is set on the dhcp server, your “router”. If you need 20 dhcp addresses typically, give yourself 50. Choose where you want them. I suggest they not be at either the bottom or the top of the range as that is where devices tend to assume it is ok for them.

I always make up a simple spreadsheet for any network where I can allocate ranges of addresses for kinds of things.

For example I reserve 1-49 for computer things. 50-99 for dhcp, 100-150 for audio gear, 240-254 for network things.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 25, 2019, 04:48:00 pm
Thanks Frank and Rob.... I just spent some time on the phone with Frank giving me direction as to how to get everything up and working but I have plans for this evening and we postponed proceedings..... so will try again maybe tomorrow.....You guys are the best ( I think I have mentioned that before)....
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Frank Koenig on August 25, 2019, 05:22:33 pm
For example I reserve 1-49 for computer things. 50-99 for dhcp, 100-150 for audio gear, 240-254 for network things.

Like this ^^.  My little audio network is all static at this point but I have a block of addresses set aside so that I could add DHCP later if needed without having to rejigger it all. -F
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Litscher on August 26, 2019, 10:47:57 am
Is there a way to have two (2) Mesh APs on the network, without a Ubiquiti controller? I'm having a devil of a time getting my second one to join/extend the network....

I'd like to have one on stage with my EdgeRouter X, and one at FOH, attached to a switch (for mixer, iPad, etc).

Am I going to have to bite the bullet and purchase a Cloud Key? (I hope not... I had terrible experiences with a CK a few years ago)
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Rob Spence on August 26, 2019, 01:51:37 pm
Is there a way to have two (2) Mesh APs on the network, without a Ubiquiti controller? I'm having a devil of a time getting my second one to join/extend the network....

I'd like to have one on stage with my EdgeRouter X, and one at FOH, attached to a switch (for mixer, iPad, etc).

Am I going to have to bite the bullet and purchase a Cloud Key? (I hope not... I had terrible experiences with a CK a few years ago)

You only need the controller to configure the network. Should be no problem with 2. After configuration, the controller isn’t used until you want to make changes.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 26, 2019, 04:03:17 pm
I am up and running thanks to Frank Kayser - YAY... Thank you so much Frank for all your help.
I am running the mesh as an extender to my AE. Will test this weekend - 2 shows..excited!
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on August 27, 2019, 12:55:27 am
I am up and running thanks to Frank Kayser - YAY... Thank you so much Frank for all your help.
I am running the mesh as an extender to my AE. Will test this weekend - 2 shows..excited!

Are you using the mesh with the same SSID as the AE?
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 27, 2019, 04:24:45 pm
Are you using the mesh with the same SSID as the AE?

No - different SSID.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Litscher on August 27, 2019, 04:35:28 pm
Anyone know if it's possible to have two Mesh AP on the same SSID?
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 27, 2019, 05:57:17 pm
Anyone know if it's possible to have two Mesh AP on the same SSID?

Yes. That's how client side maintains connectivity.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 30, 2019, 12:31:08 pm
Thought I'd 'dress him up' a bit - LOL....(Be vewy vewy quiet...)


edit: sorry - it rotated on me agin....

Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Dave Garoutte on August 30, 2019, 03:41:16 pm
Wascawy Wabbit.  heh heh . .
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: dave briar on August 30, 2019, 03:55:28 pm
Thought I'd 'dress him up' a bit - LOL....(Be vewy vewy quiet...)
edit: sorry - it rotated on me agin....
Cute for sure;D.  I went different route and built a black Lycra condom for my UAP-AC-LR so I wouldn’t have a big white eyeball staring at the crowd all night.


By the way this thread gave me GAS so I went ahead and ordered an Edgerouter X SFP.  Five POE ports so I can remove the POE injector zip-tied to the inside of my rack.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 30, 2019, 04:07:38 pm
Cute for sure;D.  I went different route and built a black Lycra condom for my UAP-AC-LR so I wouldn’t have a big white eyeball staring at the crowd all night.


By the way this thread gave me GAS so I went ahead and ordered an Edgerouter X SFP.  Five POE ports so I can remove the POE injector zip-tied to the inside of my rack.

Nice... I'd much rather disguise mine by making it black - this was more of a giggle really...maybe an old black lycra sock? Depends on whether it is a bar gig or a formal gig I suppose....
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 30, 2019, 07:09:29 pm
Nice... I'd much rather disguise mine by making it black - this was more of a giggle really...maybe an old black lycra sock? Depends on whether it is a bar gig or a formal gig I suppose....

Formal or Scally?

Dinner jacket? White tie and tails?  Basic black tux?

Or a black hoodie and trackies?
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 30, 2019, 07:30:36 pm
Formal or Scally?

Dinner jacket? White tie and tails?  Basic black tux?

Or a black hoodie and trackies?

That would be too funny - actually dress my little rabbit according to the type of event - LOL...
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Garris on September 04, 2019, 01:04:31 pm
Debbie, I'm still a little lost on this. Are you using the Ubiquity mesh along with your AE? I'm looking for a stand-alone device that does not require a switch or anything else. I sent you a PM BTW.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 04, 2019, 06:10:54 pm
Debbie, I'm still a little lost on this. Are you using the Ubiquity mesh along with your AE? I'm looking for a stand-alone device that does not require a switch or anything else. I sent you a PM BTW.

Hey Steve I don't see a PM.
I chose to use the Ubiquity AP as an extender so I wouldn't have to always assign a static address to everything plugged into my switch. I carry one of my AE's in a rack attached to the shelf so to keep it there always connected to the switch isn't an extra step for me at all.
Maybe in the future I will set up the Ubiquity as a stand alone WAP but not right now.

Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Rob Spence on September 04, 2019, 07:58:48 pm
Hey Steve I don't see a PM.
I chose to use the Ubiquity AP as an extender so I wouldn't have to always assign a static address to everything plugged into my switch. I carry one of my AE's in a rack attached to the shelf so to keep it there always connected to the switch isn't an extra step for me at all.
Maybe in the future I will set up the Ubiquity as a stand alone WAP but not right now.

Debbie, what do you mean by “extender”?

FYI, when you have multiple Unify APs, they work together to hand the portable device from AP to AP.

I have an ssid for my router/AP and a separate one for the mesh unit. For a small gig, I connect to the router/AP and don’t bring the mesh. For outdoor gigs, I add the mesh AP and connect to that. With separate ssids I know which AP I am using.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 04, 2019, 08:04:32 pm
Debbie, what do you mean by “extender”?

FYI, when you have multiple Unify APs, they work together to hand the portable device from AP to AP.

I have an ssid for my router/AP and a separate one for the mesh unit. For a small gig, I connect to the router/AP and don’t bring the mesh. For outdoor gigs, I add the mesh AP and connect to that. With separate ssids I know which AP I am using.
I have a separate network ID for the Ubiquiti and I can connect to one or the other.  I am using the Ubiquiti to get better range at outdoor shows. This past weekend was just to make sure everything worked together. At a larger show I'll be able to test the range.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Garris on September 04, 2019, 08:51:04 pm
I have a separate network ID for the Ubiquiti and I can connect to one or the other.  I am using the Ubiquiti to get better range at outdoor shows. This past weekend was just to make sure everything worked together. At a larger show I'll be able to test the range.

Just so I'm clear, you purchased this unit, and it will work stand alone as a wireless AP, correct?:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1296855-REG/ubiquiti_networks_uap_ac_m_us_unifi_ac_mesh.html

In addition, I plan on using a laptop via the Ethernet port on my mixer for a hard-wired option. I'm reading that this unit has DHCP? Will I be able to do this without a switch?
I've been seeing this unit recommended on the Soundcraft Ui24 FB page.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 04, 2019, 09:20:40 pm
Just so I'm clear, you purchased this unit, and it will work stand alone as a wireless AP, correct?:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1296855-REG/ubiquiti_networks_uap_ac_m_us_unifi_ac_mesh.html

In addition, I plan on using a laptop via the Ethernet port on my mixer for a hard-wired option. I'm reading that this unit has DHCP? Will I be able to do this without a switch?
I've been seeing this unit recommended on the Soundcraft Ui24 FB page.

It will work as stand alone. My comfort level is using it this way for now and maybe losing the AE at some point. I use the switch because I have lights running through the same WAP so I have my art net dongle connected too. If you do not need the extra ports then no need for a switch.
Yes it has DCHP but I have a mixture of assigned addresses and DCHP and I need to do some more assigning of my devices to be able to use and set up the Ubiquiti as a stand alone WAP.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 05, 2019, 10:32:26 am
And for formal...
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: frank kayser on September 05, 2019, 10:44:24 am
And for formal...


Gotta love the formal.   ;)


As a note to all - I would recommend not painting an AP to be used outdoors  black - it would absorb much more solar energy and could cause the electronics to run hotter than normal, or actually cause the plastic case to warp.


frank
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Litscher on September 05, 2019, 10:46:10 am
I have several of the Ubiquiti UniFi AC Mesh Pro ("AC-M-Pro") access points - I finally got them all working on the same SSID, talking through the same EdgeRouter X.

You *can* get the AC-M-Pro to act as a standalone wireless access point without using a router, DHCP server, or network controller, but... it's not super intuitive to set-up.

In a nutshell, you have to:

- Connect the AC-M-Pro to a working DHCP server
- Run the UniFi controller software and configure a new wireless network
- Adopt the AC-M-Pro into the new network
- Assign it a static IP address
- Uncheck the box for "wireless uplink and wireless monitor"
- All other devices that will access your AC-M-Pro must have static IPs
- You can connect the now "independent" AC-M-Pro to an unmanaged switch as well

Personally, I wouldn't go this route. Not when the Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X is so small, reliable, and inexpensive.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: dave briar on September 05, 2019, 10:48:46 am
And for formal...
You’re on to something here Debbie!  I can’t wait for Halloween!  Christmas?  The beach next summer;D?
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: frank kayser on September 05, 2019, 10:56:45 am
Just so I'm clear, you purchased this unit, and it will work stand alone as a wireless AP, correct?:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1296855-REG/ubiquiti_networks_uap_ac_m_us_unifi_ac_mesh.html (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1296855-REG/ubiquiti_networks_uap_ac_m_us_unifi_ac_mesh.html)

In addition, I plan on using a laptop via the Ethernet port on my mixer for a hard-wired option. I'm reading that this unit has DHCP? Will I be able to do this without a switch?
I've been seeing this unit recommended on the Soundcraft Ui24 FB page.


Hi Steve,
Yes, the AP can be run without a router or without a  DHCP server, or neither router or DHCP server.  Those were among the options I proposed to Debbie.  In her case, the comfort level of being able to use the switch ports without assigning an IP address prior to plugging in that device met that requirement, so the Apple router was kept in the loop to keep a DHCP server on the network.  As a byproduct, she has a running backup 5ghz SSID to connect to - the Mesh AP and the Airport - separate SSIDs.  We could have set it up with both 5ghz networks using the same SSID, or even put both 2.4ghz also with the same SSID and the device, in this case the iPad, figure out and connect to the strongest signal.


PM me if you want to chat offline.


frank
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: dave briar on September 05, 2019, 11:18:48 am

Yes, the AP can be run without a router or without a  DHCP server, or neither router or DHCP server. 
But you’d still need a POE injector in-line somewhere right?
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: frank kayser on September 05, 2019, 12:21:13 pm
But you’d still need a POE injector in-line somewhere right?


In this particular kit, yes, on the line from the switch to the AP. If a switch supporting 802.3AF was in the rack, then no.

Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Garris on September 05, 2019, 01:05:57 pm
I have several of the Ubiquiti UniFi AC Mesh Pro ("AC-M-Pro") access points - I finally got them all working on the same SSID, talking through the same EdgeRouter X.

You *can* get the AC-M-Pro to act as a standalone wireless access point without using a router, DHCP server, or network controller, but... it's not super intuitive to set-up.

In a nutshell, you have to:

- Connect the AC-M-Pro to a working DHCP server
- Run the UniFi controller software and configure a new wireless network
- Adopt the AC-M-Pro into the new network
- Assign it a static IP address
- Uncheck the box for "wireless uplink and wireless monitor"
- All other devices that will access your AC-M-Pro must have static IPs
- You can connect the now "independent" AC-M-Pro to an unmanaged switch as well

Personally, I wouldn't go this route. Not when the Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X is so small, reliable, and inexpensive.

Thanks for the instructions - copied and saved!

I'm quite confused about the Edgerouter X you are recommending. It looks like a switch to me. I'm looking for a simple, 1 unit option for good 5GHz range for wireless use with iPad or PC.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Garris on September 05, 2019, 01:08:35 pm

Hi Steve,
Yes, the AP can be run without a router or without a  DHCP server, or neither router or DHCP server.  Those were among the options I proposed to Debbie.  In her case, the comfort level of being able to use the switch ports without assigning an IP address prior to plugging in that device met that requirement, so the Apple router was kept in the loop to keep a DHCP server on the network.  As a byproduct, she has a running backup 5ghz SSID to connect to - the Mesh AP and the Airport - separate SSIDs.  We could have set it up with both 5ghz networks using the same SSID, or even put both 2.4ghz also with the same SSID and the device, in this case the iPad, figure out and connect to the strongest signal.


PM me if you want to chat offline.


frank

Thanks Frank - I would love to reach out, but from what I can tell, the PM function on this site does not work. I've sent several PM's to members and they don't receive them. Can I email you?
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Litscher on September 05, 2019, 01:43:12 pm
Thanks for the instructions - copied and saved!

I'm quite confused about the Edgerouter X you are recommending. It looks like a switch to me. I'm looking for a simple, 1 unit option for good 5GHz range for wireless use with iPad or PC.

No worries. Think of it as a 5-port switch that can assign IP addresses automatically and on-demand, if need be. That's where the router/DHCP portion comes in.

So, if you plug-in a new piece of gear, the gear will obtain it's own IP address from the EdgeRouter X.

If you use everything via static IP, and everything can connect wirelessly to the AP, you wouldn't need the EdgeRouter X.

I have my EdgeRouter X attached to the back of a Midas DL32 with some 3M automotive tape. It's about the size of a deck of cards, and has been happily living in that spot for quite some time, no issues.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: dave briar on September 05, 2019, 03:18:46 pm
Thanks for the instructions - copied and saved!

I'm quite confused about the Edgerouter X you are recommending. It looks like a switch to me. I'm looking for a simple, 1 unit option for good 5GHz range for wireless use with iPad or PC.
The easiest “simple, 1 unit option”  would be to just use a standard consumer-grade internal-antenna dual-band “router”.  Plug it in, connect a cat5 cable to your mixer, put it on top of your rack, done. For years that worked well for me and it sounds like Debbie (and others) as well. The problem arose when I wanted/needed to get it up high to maintain line-of-sight over the audience. I actually loomed together 15’ 1/8” power and cat5 cables so that I could gaff the router to something up high when needed — rather unprofessional looking for sure.  For a more elegant and robust solution I added a Ubiquiti access point (ie. radio and antennae only) that gets it power through a single cat5 cable and is lighter/smaller/less-obtrusive to mount up high and plugs into one of the switch ports on the old router which I now leave velcro’d inside my rack. So in effect I only have “1 unit’” (the AP) that I have to handle and setup at a gig. That said, I do have to contend with both the old router, it’s wall wort, the POE injector (as my old router does not support POE), and it’s wall wort inside my 6U rack.  Not bad but....

To clean things up (and to soothe my GAS) I just last week bought an EdgerouterX SFP ($99) which while a little more expensive than the X has a more powerful 24v 2.5amp power supply and can run up to five POE ports.  The thing is ridiculously small (I can hide it entirely behind one hand), only weighs a few ounces, and was trivial to Velcro inside my rack. Much cleaner, fewer cables, less mess. That said, like most of Ubiquiti’s products it’s definitely more daunting to get setup and configured than your standard consumer-grade router but I persevered and am happy.

One final point that I know confused me way back. What most people think of as a “router” usually has four functions. A switch to form the backbone of a local-area network, logic to “route” traffic to the wide-area network (internet), a DHCP server to hand out IP addresses to clients, and a radio/antennae to broadcast.  In the Ubiquiti world view the Edgerouter handles the first three and N-number of access points handle the radio/antennae duties.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Frank Koenig on September 05, 2019, 03:25:10 pm
But you’d still need a POE injector in-line somewhere right?

Yes, and the Ubiquiti power injectors are solidly built little pieces with real 3-wire power cords -- much better than a wall wart furnished with a $.04 shoe-string output cord and a connector designed to fall out.  --Frank
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 05, 2019, 03:57:16 pm
Yes, and the Ubiquiti power injectors are solidly built little pieces with real 3-wire power cords -- much better than a wall wart furnished with a $.04 shoe-string output cord and a connector designed to fall out.  --Frank

Yes - very robust and I do like the lack of wall wart....
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 05, 2019, 04:08:55 pm
Thanks for the instructions - copied and saved!

I'm quite confused about the Edgerouter X you are recommending. It looks like a switch to me. I'm looking for a simple, 1 unit option for good 5GHz range for wireless use with iPad or PC.

*Almost* every Router not used exclusively by IT professionals has a built in switch of some size and configureability.  Why do switches freak you out, Steve? If you need one, velcro the thing in place, run your patch cables and it's now an appliance; you won't have to think about it unless it fails...  In 10 years of owning a couple of racks we got from Schubert Systems (original I Techs, now stuffed with I Tech HD), we still have the switches in them as shipped by Dirk's crew in L.A.  In all we have couple dozen switches in various racks in the audio side of our shop and had ONE failure in 12 years, and it turned out to be the wall wart PSU...

Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 05, 2019, 04:16:19 pm
*Almost* every Router not used exclusively by IT professionals has a built in switch of some size and configureability.  Why do switches freak you out, Steve? If you need one, velcro the thing in place, run your patch cables and it's now an appliance; you won't have to think about it unless it fails...  In 10 years of owning a couple of racks we got from Schubert Systems (original I Techs, now stuffed with I Tech HD), we still have the switches in them as shipped by Dirk's crew in L.A.  In all we have couple dozen switches in various racks in the audio side of our shop and had ONE failure in 12 years, and it turned out to be the wall wart PSU...

I use a rack mount switch which allows me to patch everything at the front of the rack - I love it.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Rob Spence on September 05, 2019, 05:06:59 pm

Gotta love the formal.   ;)


As a note to all - I would recommend not painting an AP to be used outdoors  black - it would absorb much more solar energy and could cause the electronics to run hotter than normal, or actually cause the plastic case to warp.


frank

Not only that, but the blackening agent in the paint may affect RF performance.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Frank Koenig on September 05, 2019, 05:52:20 pm
Not only that, but the blackening agent in the paint may affect RF performance.

:o Stay away from the stuff they paint stealth fighters with ::)
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 05, 2019, 05:54:29 pm
My little guy's 'clothes' are all attached with velcro.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Dave Garoutte on September 05, 2019, 07:08:03 pm
My little guy's 'clothes' are all attached with velcro.
So you can change outfits quickly between sets?

Debbie, I have to say, that's about the cutest thing I've seen lately.  Rabbit ears as rabbit ears.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 05, 2019, 08:50:23 pm
So you can change outfits quickly between sets?

Debbie, I have to say, that's about the cutest thing I've seen lately.  Rabbit ears as rabbit ears.

Ha ha - thanks Dave. I will be making a small wardrobe for him to choose from.....of course  ;)
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Garris on September 05, 2019, 09:14:57 pm
The easiest “simple, 1 unit option”  would be to just use a standard consumer-grade internal-antenna dual-band “router”.  Plug it in, connect a cat5 cable to your mixer, put it on top of your rack, done. For years that worked well for me and it sounds like Debbie (and others) as well. The problem arose when I wanted/needed to get it up high to maintain line-of-sight over the audience. I actually loomed together 15’ 1/8” power and cat5 cables so that I could gaff the router to something up high when needed — rather unprofessional looking for sure.  For a more elegant and robust solution I added a Ubiquiti access point (ie. radio and antennae only) that gets it power through a single cat5 cable and is lighter/smaller/less-obtrusive to mount up high and plugs into one of the switch ports on the old router which I now leave velcro’d inside my rack. So in effect I only have “1 unit’” (the AP) that I have to handle and setup at a gig. That said, I do have to contend with both the old router, it’s wall wort, the POE injector (as my old router does not support POE), and it’s wall wort inside my 6U rack.  Not bad but....

To clean things up (and to soothe my GAS) I just last week bought an EdgerouterX SFP ($99) which while a little more expensive than the X has a more powerful 24v 2.5amp power supply and can run up to five POE ports.  The thing is ridiculously small (I can hide it entirely behind one hand), only weighs a few ounces, and was trivial to Velcro inside my rack. Much cleaner, fewer cables, less mess. That said, like most of Ubiquiti’s products it’s definitely more daunting to get setup and configured than your standard consumer-grade router but I persevered and am happy.

One final point that I know confused me way back. What most people think of as a “router” usually has four functions. A switch to form the backbone of a local-area network, logic to “route” traffic to the wide-area network (internet), a DHCP server to hand out IP addresses to clients, and a radio/antennae to broadcast.  In the Ubiquiti world view the Edgerouter handles the first three and N-number of access points handle the radio/antennae duties.

Again, thanks for this. You're clarifying a lot for me.

So if I were to get the EdgeRouterX, I can use one PoE port to bring a Cat5 (orCat6?) cable to an Ubiquity AP with no power supply required, and using a static address for my iPad or Laptop (or both). I can then plug my Laptop into one of the other ports for a wired connection if needed. Lastly, the Edgerouter could be set up so that other iPads can connect to the mixer via DHCP. Correct?

My application is the Soundcraft Ui24, which has an Ethernet port. On the Soundcraft FB pages, I keep reading about Cat6 cables being used. Most of the time it will be just (1) or (2) iPads connected wirelessly. I wanted to have a hard wired solution in case of emergency. In addition, the mixer has an HDMI jack that allows a direct, wired connection of any touch-screen monitor, albeit at 720p. I'm considering this as my "emergency" option as well.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Litscher on September 06, 2019, 11:15:40 am
Again, thanks for this. You're clarifying a lot for me.

So if I were to get the EdgeRouterX, I can use one PoE port to bring a Cat5 (orCat6?) cable to an Ubiquity AP with no power supply required, and using a static address for my iPad or Laptop (or both). I can then plug my Laptop into one of the other ports for a wired connection if needed. Lastly, the Edgerouter could be set up so that other iPads can connect to the mixer via DHCP. Correct?


Sort of correct. If you purchase the EdgeRouterX SFP (slightly more expensive than the "plain" EdgeRouterX), you'll have the ability to power your Ubiquity AP via the network cable, and without the need for a "POE" adapter.

The Ubiquiti AP comes with its own POE adapter, which is about the size of a sticky note pad, cut in half. It has a NEMA 5-15p cord/plug coming out of one end, and two network jacks on the other. You run one network cable to the AP, and one to the EdgeRouterX. One network cable carries power to the AP, the other carries signal between the EdgeRouterX and the AP.

For $40, it's probably worth it to get the EdgeRouterX SFP. Cleans-up the amount of wiring and adapters, and keeps everything even more compact.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 06, 2019, 01:38:23 pm
I have everything neatly stored in a 4 u rack - it holds a power conditioner to allow everything to stay permanently plugged in, an Airport Express, the Ubiquiti POE, a rack mount DMX splitter, rack mount ethernet switch and Enttec art net dongle.
I made a purpose built boom that attaches to the rack for my Ubiquiti mesh - folds down to 19".
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 06, 2019, 01:43:52 pm
front
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: dave briar on September 06, 2019, 03:46:51 pm
Again, thanks for this. You're clarifying a lot for me.

So if I were to get the EdgeRouterX, I can use one PoE port to bring a Cat5 (orCat6?) cable to an Ubiquity AP with no power supply required, and using a static address for my iPad or Laptop (or both). I can then plug my Laptop into one of the other ports for a wired connection if needed. Lastly, the Edgerouter could be set up so that other iPads can connect to the mixer via DHCP. Correct?
Yes.  Note, however, that since you’ll have DHCP available for all connections you don’t necessarily need to use static address for your iPad/laptop.  Some might advise to do so but I just let DHCP handle all connections and I’ve never had issues.  I’m pretty sure my cables are just cat5 which I’ve never had issues with either.

My application is the Soundcraft Ui24, which has an Ethernet port. On the Soundcraft FB pages, I keep reading about Cat6 cables being used. Most of the time it will be just (1) or (2) iPads connected wirelessly. I wanted to have a hard wired solution in case of emergency. In addition, the mixer has an HDMI jack that allows a direct, wired connection of any touch-screen monitor, albeit at 720p. I'm considering this as my "emergency" option as well.
Yea the HDMI backup would likely be redundant given you also have a wired option but peace of mind counts for a lot ;).
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: dave briar on September 06, 2019, 04:05:53 pm
I have everything neatly stored in a 4 u rack - it holds a power conditioner to allow everything to stay permanently plugged in, an Airport Express, the Ubiquiti POE, a rack mount DMX splitter, rack mount ethernet switch and Enttec art net dongle.
I made a purpose built boom that attaches to the rack for my Ubiquiti mesh - folds down to 19".
Nice.  I have a very similar setup in a 6U SKB rack (different components) with a specially designed mounting bracket (that does not impede the rear lid) to hold a four-section, 48”, telescoping selfie-stick I bought off of Amazon. The stick collapses down to 17” which is short enough to go inside the rack case for storage. The AP ends up being right at 7’ off the floor with my usual setup. I have cable to go higher if needed but 7’ added to the stage height has so far been sufficient.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: dave briar on September 06, 2019, 04:18:11 pm
Sort of correct. If you purchase the EdgeRouterX SFP (slightly more expensive than the "plain" EdgeRouterX), you'll have the ability to power your Ubiquity AP via the network cable, and without the need for a "POE" adapter.
Agreed and since the power supply is sufficient (24V, 2.5amp) and each of the five ports can be configured to provide POE you can add additional APs in the future if needed.

The Ubiquiti AP comes with its own POE adapter, which is about the size of a sticky note pad, cut in half. It has a NEMA 5-15p cord/plug coming out of one end, and two network jacks on the other. You run one network cable to the AP, and one to the EdgeRouterX. One network cable carries power to the AP, the other carries signal between the EdgeRouterX and the AP.

True but with the EdgerouterX SFP you won’t need to use the POE injector/adapter that comes with the AP as the Edgerouter can supply that power itself.

For $40, it's probably worth it to get the EdgeRouterX SFP. Cleans-up the amount of wiring and adapters, and keeps everything even more compact.
+1
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Garris on September 07, 2019, 01:56:46 pm
Yes.  Note, however, that since you’ll have DHCP available for all connections you don’t necessarily need to use static address for your iPad/laptop.  Some might advise to do so but I just let DHCP handle all connections and I’ve never had issues.  I’m pretty sure my cables are just cat5 which I’ve never had issues with either.
Yea the HDMI backup would likely be redundant given you also have a wired option but peace of mind counts for a lot ;).

Excellent - I didn't want to have the static IP to begin with.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 15, 2019, 07:58:46 pm
I got to use the new WAP at an outdoor show yesterday.
It was AMAZING!!.....I walked about 200ft from the stage and had zero drop out. FOH was positioned about 100ft away. However, I did notice that the iPad battery drained more quickly as it always does the farther away I am from the WAP, and I had to utilize my battery pack much earlier than usual.
If that is the only down side to using the Ubiquiti then I am not complaining..... Thanks again everyone.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Brian Adams on September 15, 2019, 10:21:22 pm
I got to use the new WAP at an outdoor show yesterday.
It was AMAZING!!.....I walked about 200ft from the stage and had zero drop out. FOH was positioned about 100ft away. However, I did notice that the iPad battery drained more quickly as it always does the farther away I am from the WAP, and I had to utilize my battery pack much earlier than usual.
If that is the only down side to using the Ubiquiti then I am not complaining..... Thanks again everyone.

Thanks for the update Debbie. How many people were at the show? Would you recommend this unit? I'm very interested in changing from my Airport Express to the Ubiquiti Mesh, especially since they don't make a 5GHz Bullet anymore. I often have issues in large venues with lots of people, so I'm hoping this would solve my problem once and for all.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 15, 2019, 10:27:41 pm
Thanks for the update Debbie. How many people were at the show? Would you recommend this unit? I'm very interested in changing from my Airport Express to the Ubiquiti Mesh, especially since they don't make a 5GHz Bullet anymore. I often have issues in large venues with lots of people, so I'm hoping this would solve my problem once and for all.

There were maybe 200 people - the turn out was lower than usual but this particular location is one that can bring problems for me with high wi-fi traffic. I only had the WAP up about 8-9 feet but it didn't skip a beat.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Brian Adams on September 15, 2019, 11:07:23 pm
There were maybe 200 people - the turn out was lower than usual but this particular location is one that can bring problems for me with high wi-fi traffic. I only had the WAP up about 8-9 feet but it didn't skip a beat.

Thanks Debbie, I think I'll get one or two of them on the way and see how they do. Thanks for being a beta tester for me!
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 16, 2019, 10:38:06 am
Thanks Debbie, I think I'll get one or two of them on the way and see how they do. Thanks for being a beta tester for me!

U R welcome!
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Riley Casey on September 16, 2019, 04:20:23 pm
Well you're ahead of me Debbie.  I've just spent a couple of hours working on the newly arrived Mesh access point paired with a Ubiquity Edge Router and I've only just connected the computer to the router and gotten a browser page to open the controller page for the access point but all via hardwired ethernet.  None of the computers see the wifi signal. Definitely not plug n play and the documentation is aimed at a much higher IT skill level than mine.  It's going to be a grind.



So I finally worked out how to get into the controller. It looks like I have been able to set it up for 2.4gHz but cannot find a way to set it up for 5gHz. Also when my iPad scans it finds 2 networks- the one is the name I gave the new network and the other is that name plus '.lot' at the end.
I am unable to connect with my mixer right now but I assume that is because I assigned an IP address to it years ago. I thought leaving the Ubiquiti in DHCP mode would still work though...... continuing to get it all sorted ..
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 16, 2019, 04:43:20 pm
Well you're ahead of me Debbie.  I've just spent a couple of hours working on the newly arrived Mesh access point paired with a Ubiquity and I've only just connected the computer to the router and gotten a browser page to open the controller page for the access point but all via hardwired ethernet.  None of he computers see the wifi signal. Definitely not plug n play and the documentation is aimed at a much higher IT skill level than mine.  It's going to be a grind.

Oh I agree these are definitely NOT plug and play - yet they advertise as such.  I had help from Frank Kayser to get me up and running....
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Brian Adams on September 16, 2019, 09:34:18 pm
Well you're ahead of me Debbie.  I've just spent a couple of hours working on the newly arrived Mesh access point paired with a Ubiquity Edge Router and I've only just connected the computer to the router and gotten a browser page to open the controller page for the access point but all via hardwired ethernet.  None of the computers see the wifi signal. Definitely not plug n play and the documentation is aimed at a much higher IT skill level than mine.  It's going to be a grind.

I've never set up a Mesh access point, the only Ubiquiti stuff I've worked with were the dish-type point-to-point radios. I agree, they're not super easy to set up. I have a fair amount of networking experience, and they're definitely a challenge. I can certainly sympathize with you!
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Rob Spence on September 16, 2019, 11:15:51 pm
I had my mesh out this Saturday. Up 13’ on a tall speaker stand. Reliable mixer control several hundred feet out.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Bob Charest on September 17, 2019, 03:34:13 am
...especially since they don't make a 5GHz Bullet anymore...

Hi Brian,

I’ve got 3 5GHz Bullets, two have never been taken out of their boxes. PM me if interested.

Best regards,
Bob Charest
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Brian Adams on September 17, 2019, 10:43:48 am
Hi Brian,

I’ve got 3 5GHz Bullets, two have never been taken out of their boxes. PM me if interested.

Best regards,
Bob Charest

Thanks Bob, I am interested, but I'm a little hesitant since these are essentially unsupported now and will probably be even harder to find in the future.

I love the form factor though. I'll send you a PM.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Nick Falbo on September 19, 2019, 02:13:25 pm
The Ubiquiti Unifi line and all the Unifi AP's are all pretty idiot proof to setup and is what I recommend for anyone who doesn't have an IT job. Much better performance than any wireless router you can buy, better quality, and is not limited to 1 subnet. I would never run a show anywhere using an off the shelf consumer network system like apple or Belkin, never mind the fact that the apple gear is discontinued and hasn't been supported for quite a while.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 19, 2019, 03:33:34 pm
The Ubiquiti Unifi line and all the Unifi AP's are all pretty idiot proof to setup and is what I recommend for anyone who doesn't have an IT job. Much better performance than any wireless router you can buy, better quality, and is not limited to 1 subnet. I would never run a show anywhere using an off the shelf consumer network system like apple or Belkin, never mind the fact that the apple gear is discontinued and hasn't been supported for quite a while.

I've probably run 200 shows successfully using the Apple Airport Express since I got it and almost as many practice sessions ( great for personal iem control) and it has been amazing - surprisingly so. I actually have 3 total - 1 was new and the other 2 were refurbished from Apple.
With that said, the extra distance I can get using the Ubiquiti was what I had hoped for and  has made the investment well worth it for me.
"Idiot proof" to set up? - mmm - not sure about that....
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Riley Casey on September 19, 2019, 07:19:51 pm
Right up to when they aren't.  Brand new Unify UAP fails to be adaptable despite being seen by the router and Ubiquity support has no clue.

 
The Ubiquiti Unifi line and all the Unifi AP's are all pretty idiot proof to setup and is what I recommend for anyone who doesn't have an IT job.   
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Nick Falbo on September 19, 2019, 09:15:55 pm
What version is the unifi controller on the cloudkey? Did you update it to the newest version?
Right up to when they aren't.  Brand new Unify UAP fails to be adaptable despite being seen by the router and Ubiquity support has no clue.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Nick Falbo on September 19, 2019, 09:22:33 pm

"Idiot proof" to set up? - mmm - not sure about that....

If you are having issues you probably shouldn't be doing networking yourself and should hire a professional. One of my clients who hired me to install a Unifi system in his business who has no IT background loved the system so much and saw how easy it was to program and manage, he bought and installed a unifi system in his house by himself, and had no problems. Most of the time i find that people who are having problems either have faulty hardware, or should should not be touching networking hardware.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 19, 2019, 10:16:13 pm
If you are having issues you probably shouldn't be doing networking yourself and should hire a professional. One of my clients who hired me to install a Unifi system in his business who has no IT background loved the system so much and saw how easy it was to program and manage, he bought and installed a unifi system in his house by himself, and had no problems. Most of the time i find that people who are having problems either have faulty hardware, or should should not be touching networking hardware.

I am NOT having issues and my hardware is working perfectly - thanks anyway.
Each time I have had questions regarding any subject relating to sound reinforcement since I joined this forum,  I have asked for and generously been offered help from these good folks and this last endeavor was no exception. 
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Nick Falbo on September 19, 2019, 10:21:32 pm
That wasn't a rip directed at you, it was just a general statement. Many people buy things like the Ubiquiti products and expect them to work out of the box like an iphone. That is not the case with networking gear. You also get what you pay for. If you run into a brick wall with setup, don't say it is broken, hire someone who knows about networking to set it up for you. To many people ask questions or ask for advise then complain when things aren't as easy as they want them to be.

I am NOT having issues and my hardware is working perfectly - thanks anyway.
Each time I have had questions regarding any subject relating to sound reinforcement since I joined this forum,  I have asked for and generously been offered help from these good folks and this last endeavor was no exception.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Nick Falbo on September 19, 2019, 11:18:50 pm
I should also preface this with any SDN network system is much easier to setup than any system that is strictly CLI programming. You don't know what hell is until you have to program 3 routers, 17 core switches, 71 edge switches, with 9 vlans, 11 subnets, all with wireless access until you have to do that all in CLI.....
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 19, 2019, 11:50:49 pm
I should also preface this with any SDN network system is much easier to setup than any system that is strictly CLI programming. You don't know what hell is until you have to program 3 routers, 17 core switches, 71 edge switches, with 9 vlans, 11 subnets, all with wireless access until you have to do that all in CLI.....

The Ubiquity is not an SDN, not sure who you are trying to impress but you should probably know your audience.  Rob is an ex Bell Labs guy and I am director of network engineering at a well know cloud services provider.  Clearly you are a network engineer, conceded.  Now chill out so we can take the dick cap off your head.



Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Russell Ault on September 20, 2019, 12:43:24 am
[...] Many people buy things like the Ubiquiti products and expect them to work out of the box like an iphone. That is not the case with networking gear. You also get what you pay for. If you run into a brick wall with setup, don't say it is broken, hire someone who knows about networking to set it up for you. To many people ask questions or ask for advise then complain when things aren't as easy as they want them to be.

I don't think anyone who's purchased a UniFi product at the suggestion of this forum thought that setting it up would be plug-and-play. Every single mention of a Ubiquiti product on these forums is accompanied by a huge asterisk about its challenging setup and typically also a request for help; of course, helping people make things work represents a significant portion of what happens on these forums so these requests are perfectly normal and reasonable.

At its most basic, the point of these forums is to allow people to learn from each other. Aside from safety issues (i.e. activities that require a certified electrician, rigger, or a P.Eng.), it's fairly uncommon around here to suggest hiring someone with more or different experience, because if that's all we did none of us would ever have the chance to learn anything.

[...] Now chill out so we can take the dick cap off your head.

To expand on this a little: telling someone that they don't know what they're doing is easy (and, frankly, priggish). Helping and teaching can be much harder, but it's the right thing to do, and in my experience it's what's expected around here. If you have knowledge that you'd like to contribute then you are encouraged to do so, but telling people who are trying to learn that they should give up isn't helping anyone.

-Russ
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Len Zenith Jr on September 20, 2019, 04:37:02 am
I don't think anyone who's purchased a UniFi product at the suggestion of this forum thought that setting it up would be plug-and-play. Every single mention of a Ubiquiti product on these forums is accompanied by a huge asterisk about its challenging setup and typically also a request for help; of course, helping people make things work represents a significant portion of what happens on these forums so these requests are perfectly normal and reasonable.

At its most basic, the point of these forums is to allow people to learn from each other. Aside from safety issues (i.e. activities that require a certified electrician, rigger, or a P.Eng.), it's fairly uncommon around here to suggest hiring someone with more or different experience, because if that's all we did none of us would ever have the chance to learn anything.

To expand on this a little: telling someone that they don't know what they're doing is easy (and, frankly, priggish). Helping and teaching can be much harder, but it's the right thing to do, and in my experience it's what's expected around here. If you have knowledge that you'd like to contribute then you are encouraged to do so, but telling people who are trying to learn that they should give up isn't helping anyone.

-Russ

+1

I had this thread bookmarked pages ago for when I'm ready to move on from my netgear. I know it's frustrating when some wish to learn the hard way but others are listening. The knowledge gained on this forums helps everyone elevate their level of expertise.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Geert Friedhof on September 20, 2019, 07:55:59 am
Yes. That’s what I use and Tim was talking about but remember you will still need a switch, DHCP server, and a POE injector. The Ubiquiti Edgerouter X provides all three of those functions.

Be aware that some of the Unifi AP's use 24v passive POE, others use 803.11af/at, and some can do both. Most of them come with an injector, but some don't. The Edgerouters usually can't provide POE, and if they can, it is usually 24v passive POE.

Make sure you get the right POE combinations.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Geert Friedhof on September 20, 2019, 08:01:57 am
Right up to when they aren't.  Brand new Unify UAP fails to be adaptable despite being seen by the router and Ubiquity support has no clue.

That happens sometimes. Giving the AP a factory reset usually works.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Riley Casey on September 20, 2019, 09:52:50 am
So which is it?

Quote
The Ubiquiti Unifi line and all the Unifi AP's are all pretty idiot proof to setup and is what I recommend for anyone who doesn't have an IT job.

or

 
If you are having issues you probably shouldn't be doing networking yourself and should hire a professional. ...


Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Riley Casey on September 20, 2019, 10:11:16 pm
What ever it is the problem has now been kicked up to level two support.

That happens sometimes. Giving the AP a factory reset usually works.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Nick Falbo on September 20, 2019, 11:59:18 pm
The Unfifi line is SDN.   :(
The Ubiquity is not an SDN, not sure who you are trying to impress but you should probably know your audience.  Rob is an ex Bell Labs guy and I am director of network engineering at a well know cloud services provider.  Clearly you are a network engineer, conceded.  Now chill out so we can take the dick cap off your head.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 21, 2019, 02:05:02 am
The Unfifi line is SDN.   :(

No,  they called the control software SDN,  that hardly makes it an SDN.

Going to treat you like you treated my friends. You are out of your little network academy CCNA realm here.  Ubiquity does not have a basic forwarding plane,  it's all simple stateful forwarding amd routing centrally managed.  Second there is no orchestration support the second building block of a functional SDN.

Look at Juniper Appformix and their entire portfolio of OSS tools. That's an SDN..

Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on December 30, 2019, 08:20:41 pm
As an update:
In the 4 months I have been using the Ubiquiti mesh, I have had a total of ZERO drop outs in about 15 shows in the busiest of venues. I thought the Airport Express was good but this is AMAZING! It was a good move for me and wanted to share in the event someone else might want to move in the same direction.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on December 30, 2019, 08:40:37 pm
Yep.  There's a lot to be said for commercial-grade equipment.  Once you get it configured and working you'll be swearing by it, rather than at it. :D

Glad it's 100% for you!
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: dave briar on December 31, 2019, 01:19:00 am
Inspired by your thread I made the same move at about the same time and have had the same experience. It just works.
I concur with Tim’s caveat as well.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Mark Norgren on December 31, 2019, 08:33:54 am
OK, I'm officially lost.  I know enough about networking to hook up a home router and that's it.  I have a M32R board and currently use a Apple Express now for wireless.  Last summer and this next summer, I have a few outdoor shows in crowded downtown areas and the Apple has had problems in these places.  I need to upgrade my wireless setup. 

I have tried to read these 14 pages, but really can't get a grasp on what the recommendations are for my type of application.  Not a business, just a band that plays out.  Can someone give me a shopping list of what I need to buy for smaller outdoor festivals?  It sounds like Ubiquiti stuff is what people recommend.  I just need to know what models, switches......I should get.  From there, I'll try and figure out how to setup or I'll get some expertise in my area.  I appreciate the synopsis of the last 14 pages!
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on December 31, 2019, 10:27:03 am
As an update:
In the 4 months I have been using the Ubiquiti mesh, I have had a total of ZERO drop outs in about 15 shows in the busiest of venues. I thought the Airport Express was good but this is AMAZING! It was a good move for me and wanted to share in the event someone else might want to move in the same direction.

One more thing - the distance. I made the switch mainly for this reason because the AE was stable IF I didn't get more than about 50 - 60ft from the stage.
I can now get out 5 times that distance with no drop outs. I place  the WAP up high keeping good line of sight and it works.
So, not only has the 'U' been stable in busy wi-fi traffic areas, it has allowed me much more freedom to roam the venue and stay connected.
Also the guys in the band have commented on their positive experience using tablet/phone control of their mixes.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: frank kayser on December 31, 2019, 11:35:26 am
OK, I'm officially lost.  I know enough about networking to hook up a home router and that's it.  I have a M32R board and currently use a Apple Express now for wireless.  Last summer and this next summer, I have a few outdoor shows in crowded downtown areas and the Apple has had problems in these places.  I need to upgrade my wireless setup. 

I have tried to read these 14 pages, but really can't get a grasp on what the recommendations are for my type of application.  Not a business, just a band that plays out.  Can someone give me a shopping list of what I need to buy for smaller outdoor festivals?  It sounds like Ubiquiti stuff is what people recommend.  I just need to know what models, switches......I should get.  From there, I'll try and figure out how to setup or I'll get some expertise in my area.  I appreciate the synopsis of the last 14 pages!


What Debbie (and others) put into use was this Access Point: Ubiquiti Mesh
https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-AC-M-US-Unifi-Access-Point/dp/B01N9FIELY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=upiquit+mesh&qid=1577809578&sr=8-1-spell (https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-AC-M-US-Unifi-Access-Point/dp/B01N9FIELY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=upiquit+mesh&qid=1577809578&sr=8-1-spell)
Any half-decent ethernet switch will work such as:
https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Splitter-Optimization-Unmanaged-TL-SG105/dp/B00A128S24/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=gigabit+switch&qid=1577809712&sr=8-4 (https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Splitter-Optimization-Unmanaged-TL-SG105/dp/B00A128S24/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=gigabit+switch&qid=1577809712&sr=8-4)


You'll have to configure the Access Point.  Honestly, that is a bit of a PITA, especially if one has never worked with Ubiquiti stuff before.  Fortunately, it is a one-time hassle.  The additional range and reliability is worth the effort, as Debbie and others will attest (and so have already done).  The Ubiquiti gets its power as Power over Ethernet (POE).  The POE adapter is included in the package.


Debbie's was set up to get a DHCP address from her Apple Airport. 
She used a unique SSID, different than that of her Airport. 
It is easy to leave the switch and router close to the mixer, and run an ethernet line to the AP and strap the AP on to a speaker stand, or the like.


Connection is Apple Airport --> Switch --> POE Adapter --> Ubiquiti Mesh
                                                       |-----> Mixer
                                                       |-----> Lighting TCP/IP to DMX Controller


frank
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on December 31, 2019, 11:42:17 am

What Debbie (and others) put into use was this Access Point: Ubiquiti Mesh
https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-AC-M-US-Unifi-Access-Point/dp/B01N9FIELY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=upiquit+mesh&qid=1577809578&sr=8-1-spell (https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-AC-M-US-Unifi-Access-Point/dp/B01N9FIELY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=upiquit+mesh&qid=1577809578&sr=8-1-spell)
Any half-decent ethernet switch will work such as:
https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Splitter-Optimization-Unmanaged-TL-SG105/dp/B00A128S24/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=gigabit+switch&qid=1577809712&sr=8-4 (https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Splitter-Optimization-Unmanaged-TL-SG105/dp/B00A128S24/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=gigabit+switch&qid=1577809712&sr=8-4)


You'll have to configure the Access Point.  Honestly, that is a bit of a PITA, especially if one has never worked with Ubiquiti stuff before.  Fortunately, it is a one-time hassle.  The additional range and reliability is worth the effort, as Debbie and others will attest (and have already done so)


Debbie's was set up to get a DHCP address from her Apple Airport. 
She used a unique SSID, different than that of her Airport. 


Connection is Apple Airport --> Switch --> POE Adapter --> Ubiquiti Mesh
                                                       |-----> Mixer
                                                       |-----> Lighting TCP/IP to DMX Controller


frank

And Frank generously spent some time helping me set mine up - thanks Frank!!
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: frank kayser on December 31, 2019, 11:53:08 am
And Frank generously spent some time helping me set mine up - thanks Frank!!
A pleasure, I assure you! 
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Riley Casey on December 31, 2019, 12:50:35 pm
Don't confuse one time hassle with one hour or even one day hassle with the Ubiqiuiti gear.  If your prior experience is with plug & play consumer devices configuring anything Ubiquiti requires a fair amount of time, research and above all attention to firmware levels. Add to that Ubiquiti tech support is pretty useless as well. After that it does work substantially better than any Apple or Netgear consumer wifi router I've had occasion to use.


...

You'll have to configure the Access Point.  Honestly, that is a bit of a PITA, especially if one has never worked with Ubiquiti stuff before.  Fortunately, it is a one-time hassle.  The additional range and reliability is worth the effort, as Debbie and others will attest (and so have already done).  The Ubiquiti gets its power as Power over Ethernet (POE).  The POE adapter is included in the package.


...
frank
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Steve Garris on December 31, 2019, 03:41:49 pm

What Debbie (and others) put into use was this Access Point: Ubiquiti Mesh
https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-AC-M-US-Unifi-Access-Point/dp/B01N9FIELY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=upiquit+mesh&qid=1577809578&sr=8-1-spell (https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-AC-M-US-Unifi-Access-Point/dp/B01N9FIELY/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=upiquit+mesh&qid=1577809578&sr=8-1-spell)
Any half-decent ethernet switch will work such as:
https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Splitter-Optimization-Unmanaged-TL-SG105/dp/B00A128S24/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=gigabit+switch&qid=1577809712&sr=8-4 (https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Splitter-Optimization-Unmanaged-TL-SG105/dp/B00A128S24/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=gigabit+switch&qid=1577809712&sr=8-4)


You'll have to configure the Access Point.  Honestly, that is a bit of a PITA, especially if one has never worked with Ubiquiti stuff before.  Fortunately, it is a one-time hassle.  The additional range and reliability is worth the effort, as Debbie and others will attest (and so have already done).  The Ubiquiti gets its power as Power over Ethernet (POE).  The POE adapter is included in the package.


Debbie's was set up to get a DHCP address from her Apple Airport. 
She used a unique SSID, different than that of her Airport. 
It is easy to leave the switch and router close to the mixer, and run an ethernet line to the AP and strap the AP on to a speaker stand, or the like.


Connection is Apple Airport --> Switch --> POE Adapter --> Ubiquiti Mesh
                                                       |-----> Mixer
                                                       |-----> Lighting TCP/IP to DMX Controller


frank

Thanks for this Frank. I'm first going to set my new SC mixer up with a simple home router. Once that is working smoothly, I'm going with the Ubiquity Mesh and a switch. I just found a guy (friend) that I will pay to set up the Ubiquity. It will be worth it based on the reviews I've read here. Find a network guy and pay them to set it up! Buy once - cry once.
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: Andrew Broughton on December 31, 2019, 03:58:00 pm
If you don't want the hassle of figuring out the (terrible) Ubuiti firmware, don't forget you can just flash them with DD-WRT. That's what I finally did with mine after getting tired of struggling to get the myriad of settings correct. Now I love using my NanoStations!

(Not sure if there's a DD-WRT version for the specific devices being talked about in this thread, mind you!)
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: frank kayser on December 31, 2019, 04:16:10 pm
Don't confuse one time hassle with one hour or even one day hassle with the Ubiqiuiti gear.  If your prior experience is with plug & play consumer devices configuring anything Ubiquiti requires a fair amount of time, research and above all attention to firmware levels. Add to that Ubiquiti tech support is pretty useless as well. After that it does work substantially better than any Apple or Netgear consumer wifi router I've had occasion to use. 


I agree that I understated "hassle".  I've done a fair amount with Ubiquity, at home and at the Cafe, yet it took me several hours and more than one try to get Debbie's AP sorted.  Riley is no rookie, nor can anyone say he is not savvy, technically or otherwise.  That said, he was not so lucky as his was a very frustrating, multi-day event, finally tracked to no firmware loaded from the factory, so I'm told.  That really is unacceptable. 


Not for the feint of heart.  Plug and play, it is not. 


Once past the frustration, anger and tears, pretty solid and does indeed, perform well.
I would parallel the experience to photos on one's phone and jumping into using a DSLR without a manual. (or with a manual, such as they are!)


YMMV
frank
Title: Re: Switch from router to WAP ?
Post by: frank kayser on December 31, 2019, 04:40:58 pm
Thanks for this Frank. I'm first going to set my new SC mixer up with a simple home router. Once that is working smoothly, I'm going with the Ubiquity Mesh and a switch. I just found a guy (friend) that I will pay to set up the Ubiquity. It will be worth it based on the reviews I've read here. Find a network guy and pay them to set it up! Buy once - cry once.


Happy to help, Steve.  If you or your network guy run into trouble, drop me a PM.
frank