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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Wireless and Communications => Topic started by: Andrew Broughton on August 15, 2019, 03:46:14 pm

Title: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Andrew Broughton on August 15, 2019, 03:46:14 pm
So... Why has Shure left out ch 26/27 in their available frequency ranges for the PSM1000? (NA)
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Henry Cohen on August 15, 2019, 05:05:36 pm
So... Why has Shure left out ch 26/27 in their available frequency ranges for the PSM1000? (NA)

Presuming you're referring to the G10 band, the tuning range is 470-542 MHz. TV channel 26 is 542-548, channel 27 is 548-554. 72MHz is likely the widest tuning range they can go while meeting FCC technical specifications and/or staying within component tolerances when operating at 100mW.
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Andrew Broughton on August 15, 2019, 05:50:39 pm
Presuming you're referring to the G10 band, the tuning range is 470-542 MHz. TV channel 26 is 542-548, channel 27 is 548-554. 72MHz is likely the widest tuning range they can go while meeting FCC technical specifications and/or staying within component tolerances when operating at 100mW.
Thank you, Henry.
Yes, G10 and J8A are the only 2 frequency ranges the PSM1000 ships with in the USA. Ch 26/27 542-554Mhz is not part of their ranges.
Shure says it's because their product's range is "only" 72Mhz. and picked the missing range arbitrarily.

I wonder if the 100mW limitation is the reason the (full-spectrum/138Mhz range) Lectro Duet maxes out at 50mW?
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Henry Cohen on August 15, 2019, 06:14:05 pm
Yes, G10 and J8A are the only 2 frequency ranges the PSM1000 ships with in the USA. Ch 26/27 542-554Mhz is not part of their ranges.
Shure says it's because their product's range is "only" 72Mhz. and picked the missing range arbitrarily.
I'm fairly certain only the G10 and X1 bands are now available as both J8 & L8 can tune to the re-allocated spectrum: OEM's had to cease sales in the US of equipment that could tune to those auctioned bands in Oct 2018.


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I wonder if the 100mW limitation is the reason the (full-spectrum/138Mhz range) Lectro Duet maxes out at 50mW?
The 138MHz tuning range is simply the contiguous bandwidth of the re-allocated UHF spectrum; 470-608. To add the additional 2MHz at 614-616 at restricted power was likely more trouble to Lectro than it was worth. (Karl?)  Let's also remember the Duet is newer technology and design by at least 10 years.

But in general RF power output and operational bandwidth [as a percentage of tuning range] are inversely related.
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Jason Glass on August 15, 2019, 06:35:40 pm
I'm fairly certain only the G10 and X1 bands are now available as both J8 & L8 can tune to the re-allocated spectrum: OEM's had to cease sales in the US of equipment that could tune to those auctioned bands in Oct 2018.

J8A and L8A bands are firmware-upgraded (downgraded; let's be honest) bands.  J8A tunes up to 608 MHz.   L8A covers the cellular band 71 duplex gap @ 10mW max TX power.  I had 6 channels of L8A out this weekend in Anaheim and they saved my hide.  10 mW was more than enough power for A level international acts on an 80x60 ft. performance area.
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Andrew Broughton on August 16, 2019, 11:52:45 am
So then...

Is it possible that the PSM1000 could have had been able to tune to the full legal spectrum ala the Duet and Axient, or is there some electrical/physical reason why that wouldn't be possible? Will there be an "Axient" version of the PSM1000 that can tune the full spectrum does anyone think?


Are PSM1000 systems that run in the X1 band available/legal in NA?
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Henry Cohen on August 16, 2019, 12:05:47 pm
J8A and L8A bands are firmware-upgraded (downgraded; let's be honest) bands.  J8A tunes up to 608 MHz.   L8A covers the cellular band 71 duplex gap @ 10mW max TX power.

Thank you for the clarification.
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Henry Cohen on August 16, 2019, 12:11:01 pm
Is it possible that the PSM1000 could have had been able to tune to the full legal spectrum ala the Duet and Axient, or is there some electrical/physical reason why that wouldn't be possible?
Depends on the bandsplit and firmware of the unit(s) in question.

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Will there be an "Axient" version of the PSM1000 that can tune the full spectrum does anyone think?
Given the market, spectrum changes and Shure's business acumen, I can't imagine Shure not working on the next generation of PSM as we speak . . .


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Are PSM1000 systems that run in the X1 band available/legal in NA?
Yes, but a Part 74 license is required to legally operate in the 941-960 MHz band.
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Steve Litscher on August 16, 2019, 04:07:52 pm
Minor tangent, but related to PSM1000....

What are you guys using for antennas? I'll be heading out on a tour that includes small-to-moderate theaters (1500 seats), and will have the PSM1000 rig just off of stage right. Any need for fins or a helical?
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Henry Cohen on August 16, 2019, 04:34:14 pm
What are you guys using for antennas? I'll be heading out on a tour that includes small-to-moderate theaters (1500 seats), and will have the PSM1000 rig just off of stage right. Any need for fins or a helical?

It's always best practice and prudent to use an appropriate dipole based omni or directional antenna (based on coverage requirements relative to antenna position) up high to get over obstructions (human and non-human alike), and to use a low loss (double shielded) coax of the largest diameter / shortest length manageable.

Generally, a circular polarized antenna is a very good choice in order to mitigate polarization mismatch as the performer moves about.

Remember that the receiver section in an IEM pack is not nearly as selective or high Q as a rack mount mic receiver, given its very limited physical size requirements, and it's crucial to achieve the maximum CNR possible at the receiver, without overloading it. That's only possible with a gain antenna above (or below) all obstructions and in appropriate free field.
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Ike Zimbel on August 16, 2019, 04:37:52 pm
Minor tangent, but related to PSM1000....

What are you guys using for antennas? I'll be heading out on a tour that includes small-to-moderate theaters (1500 seats), and will have the PSM1000 rig just off of stage right. Any need for fins or a helical?
I just was out for 50 dates in arenas. I used the PWS Domed Helical (also available as a Shure p/n) for both TX and RX and I was very happy with the results.
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Steve Litscher on August 16, 2019, 04:59:03 pm
Disregard; I had confused my PSM1000 with Axient handhelds.

I know there's a monster thread about combiners out there... Has anyone used RFVenue Combine4 with PSM1000? After discounts, the PA421 is still 4x more expensive than the Combine4.
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Andrew Broughton on August 18, 2019, 06:19:35 pm
I know there's a monster thread about combiners out there... Has anyone used RFVenue Combine4 with PSM1000? After discounts, the PA421 is still 4x more expensive than the Combine4.
That specific question was asked and answered in that thread (https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,166778.msg1537808.html#msg1537808).
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Steve Litscher on August 19, 2019, 10:45:29 am
That specific question was asked and answered in that thread (https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,166778.msg1537808.html#msg1537808).

It certainly was. And like so many threads here, it:

1) Started with a legitimate question
2) Went down a huge rabbit hole
3) Went off subject (video walls)
4) Went back on track
5) Didn't clearly answer the question*

:)

*About the RF Venue Combine4; there were no traces or experiences shared w/PSM1000 and Combine4.

Did you end-up getting one of the combiners? Any thoughts regarding use with PSM1000?
Title: Re: PSM1000 frequency ranges
Post by: Andrew Broughton on August 19, 2019, 11:27:47 am
It certainly was. And like so many threads here, it:

1) Started with a legitimate question
2) Went down a huge rabbit hole
3) Went off subject (video walls)
4) Went back on track
5) Didn't clearly answer the question*
As a forum master myself, this shit bugs the shit out of me. I wish mods would split up threads that go off on a tangent. And now this one has too.

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:)

*About the RF Venue Combine4; there were no traces or experiences shared w/PSM1000 and Combine4.

Did you end-up getting one of the combiners? Any thoughts regarding use with PSM1000?
Please at least ask on the other thread!