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Title: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on August 10, 2019, 02:16:49 pm
Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?

In a thread asking if it is a good idea or not to buy an X32 or is it about to be replaced, it was mentioned that there MAY be a version 4 firmware update. https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,171705.40.html

So rather than sidetrack that thread anymore I thought I would start a new thread asking what would you like to see changed if a new firmware where to be released. It may be too late for this but letís try it anyway.

The one thing I would strongly suggest is to expand that capability, donít force me to have to do something differently then I may like to do what it now does. In other words let me set it up the way I like. I would like the L/R master to be able to be an additional DCA fader. So if they do that make it a preference so it can be an added feature not a change that inhibits the way it works now. I use the Matrix outputs not the L/R outputs so now I use the L/R to route Playback to the Matrix. But I would prefer to sometimes have a 9th DCA master.

Used defined layers would be nice to have and have it also include the master section on the full sized consoles. So you could have 25 faders to define.

It would be nice to be able to Link 2 or more mixers together and have them act as one. Now I have to sub one board into the other. I use 2 M32 mixers when doing musical theater shows. And I have a bunch of trick to make it work for me.

I would like to see DCA spill enabled. On one console with this feature you double tap the DCA select button all channels associated with the DCA are now populated on the input faders usually starting from fader 16 as the highest channel and going to the left. And some automation of that feature would be nice. So it can be called with an OSC command.

Ability to lock scenes so they canít be over written without unlocking the scene.

This is a start of my suggestions. Please feel free to add your own. And if you request something that is actually already available I am sure we will help you understand how that works and how to do it. 
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Andrew Broughton on August 10, 2019, 06:18:44 pm
Only thing I'd like to see is them fix is the oft-complained about issue with the iPad app, where you can't Pan inputs to stereo mixes on the faders page.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on August 10, 2019, 09:06:26 pm
Do you mean pan channel/sub mixes to the FoH mix?

This is already possible. Or are you thinking of something else?

Only thing I'd like to see is them fix is the oft-complained about issue with the iPad app, where you can't Pan inputs to stereo mixes on the faders page.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Andrew Broughton on August 10, 2019, 09:12:51 pm
Mixes. They probably call them Auxes...
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Gary Weller on August 10, 2019, 09:46:57 pm
Other than what's been mentioned, all my suggestions would require more horsepower than what's left and another card slot in the chassis.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on August 10, 2019, 10:11:12 pm
Horsepower or not, maybe there is a way to use zebras instead  ;D

I for one would like to have some nice tetris, breakout and tennis games added for those boring moments :P.  It is ok to dream a bit  :)

A workaround for the extra card slot is to add an x32core or similar. This is how I on occasion work around that limitation, if I ever need to but I use the x32rack instead of the x32core.

Other than what's been mentioned, all my suggestions would require more horsepower than what's left and another card slot in the chassis.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on August 10, 2019, 11:44:35 pm
Ya, fix the stupid copy/paste on the graphic eqís, and add custom layers to the app. Also, are people still having trouble using apple routers with x/m32? If so, fix that too please. I rarely have to mix on one, but it pisses me off every time I do.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Les Kanekuni on August 11, 2019, 02:14:03 am
Probably not happening because of limitation on processing power, but I love to be able to insert more than one effects rack effect on a channel/bus/LR.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on August 11, 2019, 09:00:18 am
Probably not happening because of limitation on processing power, but I love to be able to insert more than one effects rack effect on a channel/bus/LR.

Thumbs up on that one, I would like that too.

I too have heard people say that there are certain things that can't be done because of processioning power limitations. But maybe there is more under the hood then they let on. And if that is the case maybe some of these things can be done. I can understand that they don't want to make the X32 too much like the Midas Pro series so maybe even if they could do somethings they won't.

Since you can have remote preamps in the stage box I wonder how hard it would be to allow more channels to be mixed at the same time.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: John Schalk on August 11, 2019, 09:29:34 am
I would like to be able to assign auxes/mixes to be pre or post fader individually instead of in pairs as it works today.

I would like to have dynamics on the console's aux inputs, or at a minimum, comps.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Don Gspann on August 11, 2019, 09:59:21 am
I would like to have 16 channels of automix, in addition to several of the other things mentioned.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Luke Geis on August 11, 2019, 03:24:55 pm
I can live with the current limitations really, what I would really love to see is Direct to Matrix capability. Like the Yamaha stuff, it sure would be nice to go straight to a Matrix from the channel as opposed to having to route through a mix bus first.

It would also be nice to have a custom fader layer. I mean you can sort of do it on their producer and compact lines. You can call up 1-8 and 17-24 if you want on the same layer, so why not a programmable one?

16 channels of automix would be nice!

I honestly would like to see a better multiband compressor and something more like the Portico Primary Source Enhancer.

Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: brian maddox on August 11, 2019, 04:17:26 pm
I would like to have 16 channels of automix, in addition to several of the other things mentioned.

this^^
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: brian maddox on August 11, 2019, 04:18:24 pm
I can live with the current limitations really, what I would really love to see is Direct to Matrix capability. Like the Yamaha stuff, it sure would be nice to go straight to a Matrix from the channel as opposed to having to route through a mix bus first.

It would also be nice to have a custom fader layer. I mean you can sort of do it on their producer and compact lines. You can call up 1-8 and 17-24 if you want on the same layer, so why not a programmable one?

16 channels of automix would be nice!

I honestly would like to see a better multiband compressor and something more like the Portico Primary Source Enhancer.

So basically if they could turn the X32 into a QL1, that'd be great.  :)
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Alec Spence on August 11, 2019, 06:54:39 pm
For me, it's "only":
Custom layers on the board (Mixing Station is perfect for this when mixing from a tablet)
DCA spill (Mixing Station does this well, too)
Allow granular (no 8 channel) IO routing.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim Tyler on August 11, 2019, 08:08:16 pm
-More Ultranet channels, 32 total would be nice... This is my #1...
-The ability to record 24 channels - as a preset
-8 effects, freely assignable, instead of 4 + 4

Regards,

-Tim T
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on August 11, 2019, 08:20:08 pm
For me I'd like to see any of the effects to be able to go to any of the 8 slot locations.

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on August 11, 2019, 08:39:19 pm
By using the stageboxes you can have up to three ultranet Ďuniversesí. I use this to split the ultranet between ultranet enabled speakers and p16-m.

The fx are already freely assignable, unless I misunderstand you. People tend to miss that fx1-4 can be used as inserts as well.

-More Ultranet channels, 32 total would be nice... This is my #1...
-The ability to record 24 channels - as a preset
-8 effects, freely assignable, instead of 4 + 4

Regards,

-Tim T
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Riley Casey on August 11, 2019, 09:29:38 pm
Like the XR18 already has.  All of this discussion seems to fit well with the recent threads about how badly Music Group has handled product lines like Lab Gruppen and Turbosound.  Yamaha continues to add value to their products right up to EOL and we pay accordingly.  MG drains value from their lines. While we might marvel at how effectively they have moved the goal posts from formerly professional tools meant for earning a living with to commodity consumer products that work surprisingly well I they are not a vendor I would have high expectations of.


...

16 channels of automix would be nice!

...
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 11, 2019, 11:38:07 pm
Like the XR18 already has.  All of this discussion seems to fit well with the recent threads about how badly Music Group has handled product lines like Lab Gruppen and Turbosound.  Yamaha continues to add value to their products right up to EOL and we pay accordingly.  MG drains value from their lines. While we might marvel at how effectively they have moved the goal posts from formerly professional tools meant for earning a living with to commodity consumer products that work surprisingly well I they are not a vendor I would have high expectations of.

A bit like the Vulture Capitalists that buy a potentially profitable company, sell off its assets, off-shore the production, saddle it with debt, pay huge bonuses to the BoD members they install, then walk away leaving management, staff and workers with a bankrupt company and no pension or retirement plans - which those same victims spent their working years contributing to (directly or in conjunction with employer contributions).

MG seems to have extracted most of the intellectual property from the former professional brands - from designs & engineering to brand cachet and good will.  What they leave behind is an empty shell that provides the Patina of Professionalģ to buyers unaware they are mostly purchasing a name.  While not the only company to acquire a major brand or two, MG seems more inclined to use good will and former *pro* glory to sell MI-quality goods rather than support the customers of professional purchases.

ps.  I heard Paul Bauman has left MG.  Anyone know for sure?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Erik Jerde on August 12, 2019, 12:02:40 am
For me, it's "only":
Custom layers on the board (Mixing Station is perfect for this when mixing from a tablet)
DCA spill (Mixing Station does this well, too)
Allow granular (no 8 channel) IO routing.

These would make me happy. 

I'd also like the tap tempo display in the udk section to be configurable to show BPM (like the ipad app will already do).
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on August 12, 2019, 04:57:05 am
Iíd like to see this thread stay on the topic. You are free to start your own non-v4 topics if you want to.

Btw, LinkedIn is usually your friend to see where people are working (or not). It took me 5 seconds to find out...

A bit like the Vulture Capitalists...
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 12, 2019, 09:19:33 am
Iíd like to see this thread stay on the topic. You are free to start your own non-v4 topics if you want to.

Btw, LinkedIn is usually your friend to see where people are working (or not). It took me 5 seconds to find out...

Ask EHP to make you a moderator.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on August 12, 2019, 09:36:57 am
I already admin/moderate the MusicTribe forum and that is more than enough mod work for me. Especially when the forum layout changed...

I just want to have this thread clean enough so I can forward the requests and maybe even point them to this thread.

Ask EHP to make you a moderator.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Rob Spence on August 12, 2019, 12:23:08 pm
I already admin/moderate the MusicTribe forum and that is more than enough mod work for me. Especially when the forum layout changed...

I just want to have this thread clean enough so I can forward the requests and maybe even point them to this thread.

I suspect that if they plan a V4, and it requires a pretty big effort (like to change the 8 block restriction), they already have a requirements doc and project plan and schedule if they plan to code, test, and release within a year.

All these suggestions were made in the humongous thread I started years ago.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Riley Casey on August 12, 2019, 12:23:41 pm
Robert was doing an exemplary job of modding the X32 & XR18 forums when I had occasion to visit. I've been left in the dust with the 'new & improved' Behringer forums so I don't know how things are there now but I'd imagine if its still standing at all he is part of the reason.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: John L Nobile on August 12, 2019, 12:38:21 pm
I would think that if a new firmware version is released it's to allow the X32 to interface with a new product. I would suspect a new card. Or possibly getting users to beta test something in the X32 replacement which must be in the works. I really can't new firmware being released for a product this old unless it leads to more revenue.

Or this could just be another vapourware rumour.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on August 12, 2019, 01:29:34 pm
Or it could just be that they have no current plans of EOL the x32/m32 since it still sells very well and just want to address a couple of things to keep it competitive in the current market, like removing the fixed blocks-of-8 for even more ease of use.

Or this could just be another vapourware rumour.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on August 12, 2019, 01:33:59 pm
Tnx Riley! It warms my heart to hear :-*

Paul Vannatto is the other cornerstone in this team to keep the MT-forum alive.

Robert was doing an exemplary job of modding the X32 & XR18 forums when I had occasion to visit. I've been left in the dust with the 'new & improved' Behringer forums so I don't know how things are there now but I'd imagine if its still standing at all he is part of the reason.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: lindsay Dean on August 12, 2019, 01:43:45 pm
A card for HDMI or DVID output for a video monitor or best case a touch monitor and the display will have a customizable layout
 I think that would be fantastico!
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on August 12, 2019, 02:58:35 pm
Robert was doing an exemplary job of modding the X32 & XR18 forums when I had occasion to visit. I've been left in the dust with the 'new & improved' Behringer forums so I don't know how things are there now but I'd imagine if its still standing at all he is part of the reason.

LIKED!!!
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on August 12, 2019, 03:01:40 pm
On-topic, I would like to see some variety of software that lets two consoles combine into one.

If there were a device like a Core that had three AES50 ports, that would make it a lot easier...
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Russell Ault on August 12, 2019, 03:43:49 pm
This may sound odd, but in the context of custom fader layers I'd love to have more DCAs.

Also, if they're going to add custom fader layers, it'd be great if they were recallable scene-by-scene (a la A&H) rather than fixed for the console (a la DiGiCo and CL/QL).

-Russ
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Andrew Broughton on August 12, 2019, 04:05:14 pm
Also, if they're going to add custom fader layers, it'd be great if they were recallable scene-by-scene (a la A&H) rather than fixed for the console (a la DiGiCo and CL/QL).
I assume you mean the custom fader layouts being recalled scene-by-scene? If so, then that's certainly possible with the Yamahas.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on August 12, 2019, 04:41:17 pm
I just want to have this thread clean enough so I can forward the requests and maybe even point them to this thread.

With all due respect: The only request that should be forwarded to MT at this point is to cease gutting pro brands, discontinuing all the good lines, and replacing them with JBL knock offs.

24 months ago I would have recommended an M32 to every small venue in town, nowadays, not so much.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Russell Ault on August 12, 2019, 06:01:49 pm
I assume you mean the custom fader layouts being recalled scene-by-scene? If so, then that's certainly possible with the Yamahas.

Huh, going to have to hit up the manual again. That would have been handy on this show...

-Russ
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Andrew Broughton on August 12, 2019, 09:22:23 pm
Huh, going to have to hit up the manual again. That would have been handy on this show...
Folk Fest perhaps?

No need for the manual, just Un-Safe the custom layers in the Recall Safe page.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Richardson on August 13, 2019, 10:41:26 am
The fx are already freely assignable, unless I misunderstand you. People tend to miss that fx1-4 can be used as inserts as well.

No, they're not. Slots 5-8 are limited. If I want a Combinator, I have to give up a verb or delay, since those only exist in slots 1-4. Removing that limitation alone would make me actually consider an M32.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: dave briar on August 13, 2019, 12:57:34 pm
No, they're not. Slots 5-8 are limited. If I want a Combinator, I have to give up a verb or delay, since those only exist in slots 1-4.
Yes, a particularly annoying limitation I agree.  I mean the combinator is certainly not a C6 but would be something I could make work if I was willing to give up an fx bus ó which I am not. Iíve no idea why it couldnít be insertable.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Steve Litscher on August 14, 2019, 10:49:30 am
My wishlist is short:

- Allow you to rearrange fader layout without having to re-patch. Example: I patch my star vocal to Channel 13, but I want it to appear on fader #8 in bank one. Drag/drop the fader over to Bank 1, spot 8 and done. (Like A&H allows)

- Give access to all effects in the 8 FX slots (rather than reserving the last four for GEQ only)
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim Weaver on August 14, 2019, 12:00:19 pm
No, they're not. Slots 5-8 are limited. If I want a Combinator, I have to give up a verb or delay, since those only exist in slots 1-4. Removing that limitation alone would make me actually consider an M32.

This. Make the FX slots all the same.


Also I'd like to be able to make the master fader freely assignable so I can have a money channel that stays on the top layer at all times. Most other desks do this now. I don't know about most af you, but I rarely ever touch the master fader after soundcheck. It doesn't need to be there all the time.

I'm fine with 8 DCA's and not having fader spill. It's a club-level desk that is already punching waaay above it's class.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Gary Weller on August 14, 2019, 12:47:18 pm
If there is enough horsepower left, I'd like the compressors in the effects section to be used on any and all channels and outputs.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Alec Spence on August 14, 2019, 02:39:42 pm
- Give access to all effects in the 8 FX slots (rather than reserving the last four for GEQ only)
It's more than just GEQ in the last four slots - other EQs, dynamics, and other such non delay/reverb FX.  Still limited, but not quite as much as you suggested.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Russell Ault on August 14, 2019, 03:36:18 pm
Folk Fest perhaps?

Musical Theatre. Always wanted to try using custom fader bank recall instead of the traditional single-channel VCA assignments, I've just never been a on a console that could do it (until now, apparently).

-Russ
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Andrew Broughton on August 14, 2019, 04:42:29 pm
Musical Theatre. Always wanted to try using custom fader bank recall instead of the traditional single-channel VCA assignments, I've just never been a on a console that could do it (until now, apparently).
Well, there you go!
I have a scene per song and use custom layouts per song so the things I need at my fingertips are always there.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on August 16, 2019, 04:12:59 am
On-topic, I would like to see some variety of software that lets two consoles combine into one.

If there were a device like a Core that had three AES50 ports, that would make it a lot easier...

Although this thread is about firmware, I don't know where else to suggest a new product, one based on my post quoted above. So at the risk of being off-topic:

I've been thinking about this combining idea, because I do it with limited efficacy now (can only mix the slave console to 6 busses due to using Aux Inputs) and would like full efficacy (16 total outputs, using all available busses as sources, same as a console).

I'd like to see a 32 input mixer in which the sources were outputs 1-16 on one AES 50 stream, plus outputs 1-16 on another AES 50 stream. Those sources would be combined at unity gain 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 etc., into a new AES 50 stream that would go to 16 XLR outputs either located on it or on an additional S32 or DL32.

So the signal chain would be

2 separate S- or DL-32 to 2 AES 50  cables to new box to 2 AES 50 cables to 2 consoles.

Inputs/routing would pass through to the separate consoles, the combined outputs would  mirror on both -32 stage boxes, which I guess would make the new box more equivalent to a Core in size than one with its own 16 XLR outputs.

So the new box only has 2 AES50 connectors to go to the stage boxes, and 2 AES 50 connectors to go to two consoles. No other audio connectors.

The only thing missing would be a way to couple the PFL listening functions at the consoles, and maybe that could be figured out with a little 2 stereo in/1 stereo out unity gain box that doesn't add noise? That little box should have both 2 TRS ins/ 1 TRS out- and two pair of FXLR ins and 1 pair MXLR outs., for listen wedge situations. Volume adjustments made at the consoles not within the little box.

The boxes would be sold both as a set and separately.

Would this be useful to anyone besides me?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Richardson on August 16, 2019, 08:14:24 am
It's more than just GEQ in the last four slots - other EQs, dynamics, and other such non delay/reverb FX.  Still limited, but not quite as much as you suggested.

I occasionally use a de-esser, and less frequently a GEQ. I've never used anything else that is available in those slots.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Mark Norgren on August 16, 2019, 08:57:01 am
How about some updates for the M/X32 app's?  Maybe some custom type layout options?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Taylor Hall on August 16, 2019, 09:26:48 am
How about some updates for the M/X32 app's?  Maybe some custom type layout options?
Better off spending a couple bucks and getting Mixing Station from the app store.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Alec Spence on August 16, 2019, 12:35:24 pm
Better off spending a couple bucks and getting Mixing Station from the app store.
+1
And, if you're an Android user and tight, even the free version is pretty highly functional (and includes custom layouts)
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on August 25, 2019, 04:08:05 pm
I just got X Touch and X Touch Extenders to try to create 24 channel faders in use at a time while using the console banks of an M32R to control FX returns and DCA's or Aux Ins and DCA's or whatever combination is appropriate.

After firmware updates to console, Touch, and Edit, the Touches work fine. The Extenders, however, don't work at all and that seems in part due to NO firmware updates, apparently ever. How about a firmware update for those to allow them to integrate with a Touch to extend its capabilities?

The scribble strips on both are real nice.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: John A Chiara on August 31, 2019, 11:49:32 pm
It's more than just GEQ in the last four slots - other EQs, dynamics, and other such non delay/reverb FX.  Still limited, but not quite as much as you suggested.

Hmm...I havenít used a graphic eq since I git my X-32 over 6 years ago. First thing I do is remove them from scenes. I want 16 FX slots. My mixes are more studio based and I find 7 time based FX a useful minimum for my work flow.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Russell Ault on September 01, 2019, 12:53:11 am
I want 16 FX slots. My mixes are more studio based and I find 7 time based FX a useful minimum for my work flow.

I'd be a little surprised if the onboard DSP had that kind of horsepower in it. I feel like you might be reaching the point where a Waves setup would make more sense.

-Russ
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on September 01, 2019, 06:48:09 am
EDIT: Iíve removed the part of the delays since I was in error.

I have asked them earlier if we couldnít get the ability to split an fx-slot into two mono so that we potentially could load up to 16 mono fx, but this was a no-go.

As to why we canít put any fx into any fx-slot; Each fx slot has a fixed/dedicated amount of dsp power assigned to it to ensure that dsp power is available for each loaded fx. This is why the dsp power-hungry fx like the combinator and reverbs only fits in the left fx slots because they have more dedicated dsp power assigned to them. It was a deliberate decision not allowing the user to max out on the dsp power before all slots were filled

Hmm...I havenít used a graphic eq since I git my X-32 over 6 years ago. First thing I do is remove them from scenes. I want 16 FX slots. My mixes are more studio based and I find 7 time based FX a useful minimum for my work flow.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: John A Chiara on September 03, 2019, 09:33:48 am
EDIT: Iíve removed the part of the delays since I was in error.

I have asked them earlier if we couldnít get the ability to split an fx-slot into two mono so that we potentially could load up to 16 mono fx, but this was a no-go.

As to why we canít put any fx into any fx-slot; Each fx slot has a fixed/dedicated amount of dsp power assigned to it to ensure that dsp power is available for each loaded fx. This is why the dsp power-hungry fx like the combinator and reverbs only fits in the left fx slots because they have more dedicated dsp power assigned to them. It was a deliberate decision not allowing the user to max out on the dsp power before all slots were filled
Yeah, I knew that. I have a small outboard rack with some classic verbs and a TC harmonizer thingie...just would be nice if we had more. I thought the M32 had double the DSP because it was intended to have 96K capability?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on September 03, 2019, 10:03:59 am
Nope, aside from mechanical stuff and analog path the m32 and x32 share exactly the same hardware and software. Both platforms performs exactly the same.

I donít know when this hoax together with that ďthe x32 doesnít use the same coherent busses as the m32Ē was born, but it has been impossible to kill off ever since.

Yeah, I knew that. I have a small outboard rack with some classic verbs and a TC harmonizer thingie...just would be nice if we had more. I thought the M32 had double the DSP because it was intended to have 96K capability?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Alec Spence on September 03, 2019, 11:16:08 am
My mixes are more studio based and I find 7 time based FX a useful minimum for my work flow.
I'd be a little surprised if the onboard DSP had that kind of horsepower in it. I feel like you might be reaching the point where a Waves setup would make more sense.
And let's not forget, it wasn't many years ago, where in a small/medium cap venue, you were doing OK to have 8-12 gates/comps, graphics on all outputs, and 2 time based processors.

How times have changed where we can declare that gates/comps on every channel, graphics on all outputs, and 4 time based processors isn't enough...  Particularly remembering the cost of the X32.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 03, 2019, 04:38:02 pm
I'd be a little surprised if the onboard DSP had that kind of horsepower in it. I feel like you might be reaching the point where a Waves setup would make more sense.
And let's not forget, it wasn't many years ago, where in a small/medium cap venue, you were doing OK to have 8-12 gates/comps, graphics on all outputs, and 2 time based processors.

How times have changed where we can declare that gates/comps on every channel, graphics on all outputs, and 4 time based processors isn't enough...  Particularly remembering the cost of the X32.


For real! I mixed many a band with 8 comps, 4 gates, and two multi FX. Usually had a pair of long-fader graphics for the mains and 4 short fader EQ's for monitors from FOH. And that would suffice for a 32 channel desk with the headliner taking up as many channels as they needed, and the opener would get whats left!

If you mixed the opener you considered it a gift if there was one comp left over for your main vocal!
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Mal Brown on September 03, 2019, 04:42:05 pm
And it was up hill both ways to the stage and back ;-)
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 03, 2019, 06:03:49 pm
And it was up hill both ways to the stage and back ;-)

OH, so you've worked with me and Weaver?  ;D
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Mal Brown on September 04, 2019, 12:12:33 am
OH, so you've worked with me and Weaver?  ;D

;-)
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Mark Norgren on September 04, 2019, 07:06:26 am
Did I see new Firmware for the Pro series was released?  Maybe the XM32 will follow shortly?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on September 04, 2019, 08:20:23 am
Given that the blocks-of-8 restriction is removed Iíd guess that a v4 release will take a much longer time than normal since it would involve the core functionality of the mixer and a major overhaul of the supporting apps.

Did I see new Firmware for the Pro series was released?  Maybe the XM32 will follow shortly?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on September 04, 2019, 08:50:32 am
Given that the blocks-of-8 restriction is removed...

What?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on September 04, 2019, 09:06:06 am
Did you miss this one?

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,171705.msg1581622.html#msg1581622

What?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 04, 2019, 12:04:15 pm
Did you miss this one?

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,171705.msg1581622.html#msg1581622
I saw that earlier and I'm skeptical as we've been told by Behringer that the "block of 8" was a hardware constraint and not a firmware programming issue.  Either they lied or found a clever way to break it up.

As with all things that get promised, I'll believe it when my X/M32 inventory can do this.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on September 04, 2019, 12:43:52 pm
All of the i/o cards are 8 streams each. Even the expansion port is a set of 4x8 streams from a hardware point.

Iíd say that they probably found a clever way of splitting it up in the fpga. The fpga is responsible for all audio routing and it currently does this in blocks of 8.

But as you said, time will tell if we will get it or not... One thing I do know. That magazine has a close contact with the RnD team.

I saw that earlier and I'm skeptical as we've been told by Behringer that the "block of 8" was a hardware constraint and not a firmware programming issue.  Either they lied or found a clever way to break it up.

As with all things that get promised, I'll believe it when my X/M32 inventory can do this.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on September 04, 2019, 02:38:03 pm
Did you miss this one?

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,171705.msg1581622.html#msg1581622

I did see it but it didn't strongly register, as I'm kind of with Tim when I see future Behringer product/software/firmware announced but not released. I'm happy when it arrives but am not going to spend much time either keeping announcements straight in my mind or holding my breath waiting.

It will be nice when we can do that thing, and it has been very nice when they've often expanded the X32's capabilities. It's definitely a plus that they seem to keep going forward and not backward like Apple (removing features while adding others).
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: James Paul on September 06, 2019, 03:49:17 am
X-Live recording signal indicator metering, for provision of correct routing confirmation.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: James Paul on September 06, 2019, 03:55:48 am
And additional selections of 8 and 24 channel X-Live recording track count.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Jay Marr on September 06, 2019, 09:57:11 am
Mine is more of an App ask:
Something at the top of the app that tells you that you are recording.
I often start tracking at the beginning of the set, and never remember to 'stop' it while on break.
Yes this is me not being mindful, but a flashing red dot at the top of the page would be nice.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Mark Norgren on September 07, 2019, 06:07:34 am
Mine is more of an App ask:
Something at the top of the app that tells you that you are recording.
I often start tracking at the beginning of the set, and never remember to 'stop' it while on break.
Yes this is me not being mindful, but a flashing red dot at the top of the page would be nice.

Do yourself a favor and get the Mixing Station app.  I have made a couple of great custom layouts that include buttons for the X-Live card.  The app is fabulous, now available for IOS!  For the money, it's a no-brainer!
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Jay Marr on September 07, 2019, 03:51:50 pm
Do yourself a favor and get the Mixing Station app.  I have made a couple of great custom layouts that include buttons for the X-Live card.  The app is fabulous, now available for IOS!  For the money, it's a no-brainer!

I have it on my LG Tablet.  I just prefer the original iOS app.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Rufus Crowder on September 10, 2019, 10:50:41 am
For me, it's "only":
Custom layers on the board (Mixing Station is perfect for this when mixing from a tablet)
DCA spill (Mixing Station does this well, too)
Allow granular (no 8 channel) IO routing.

Bingo! +1  At the very least fix the remote app to have the capabilities of Mixing Station.  Mixing Station's graphics are not easy on the eyes but pleasing that that you can have custom layers.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Branimir Bozak on September 13, 2019, 06:52:30 pm

For real! I mixed many a band with 8 comps, 4 gates, and two multi FX. Usually had a pair of long-fader graphics for the mains and 4 short fader EQ's for monitors from FOH. And that would suffice for a 32 channel desk with the headliner taking up as many channels as they needed, and the opener would get whats left!

If you mixed the opener you considered it a gift if there was one comp left over for your main vocal!
Everybody keeps forgetting that the "cheap" consoles of yesterday, the AH GL's, Soundcraft GB"s they all sum much better then the X32/M32....
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 13, 2019, 09:07:54 pm
Everybody keeps forgetting that the "cheap" consoles of yesterday, the AH GL's, Soundcraft GB"s they all sum much better then the X32/M32....

I don't really buy that. The console is such a tiny percentage of the overall quality of a system, how could you tell that this console "sums" better than that one.

What even is summing anyway. What makes digital worse than analog?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 13, 2019, 09:11:07 pm
I don't really buy that. The console is such a tiny percentage of the overall quality of a system, how could you tell that this console "sums" better than that one.

What even is summing anyway. What makes digital worse than analog?

Summing,  the combining of all the inpits on a bus to the output is quite difficult in tje digital domain.  In the analog domain you just buffer and slam on a rail.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Frank Koenig on September 13, 2019, 10:03:20 pm
Summing,  the combining of all the inpits on a bus to the output is quite difficult in the digital domain.

Hey Scott, how so? It's a stateless (point) process and, so far as I know, only gets interesting if the numerical representation (number of bits, fixed, float, etc.) runs out of range. These days that's not likely to be a problem. There used to be a dilemma in summing a large number of digital or analog signals which was how to scale the output in the face of limited range. The most conservative approach is to assume full-scale on all inputs at the same instant, but this requires you to chop more off the bottom of the sum, raising the quantization (digital) or physical (analog) noise floor. In practice a large number of uncorrelated signals are unlikely to peak all at once. I remember having this discussion with one of Digidesign's engineers years ago. Like I said, not a problem anymore. If I'm wrong I'd like to know in what way. --Frank
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Russell Ault on September 13, 2019, 11:41:16 pm
Summing,  the combining of all the inpits on a bus to the output is quite difficult in tje digital domain.  In the analog domain you just buffer and slam on a rail.

I was under the impression that floating point math made summing easier in the digital domain than the anogue one. In analogue when you reach maximum bus voltage you're done and you need to start pulling stuff down to prevent overdriving the summing amp. I had thought that with floating point math it was possible to design systems that can sum full-scale signals at maximum level from all inputs and still not exceed the available numerical headroom while also not using stupendously large numbers or increasing the noise floor. Is my math wrong?

-Russ
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Frank Koenig on September 14, 2019, 12:31:57 am
Is my math wrong?

Your math is right. Even with fixed-point you only need 7 bits of headroom to sum 128 signals worst case without clipping. In the old days we had other tricks, too, like block floating point. You sum until you detect overflow and then shift the whole kit and caboodle by one bit (divide by two) and keep a count of the shifts. That way you never re-scale more than you have to. I employed this technique in a school project I did ~35 years ago. 35 years -- ouch. -F
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 14, 2019, 01:01:22 am
Hey Scott, how so? It's a stateless (point) process and, so far as I know, only gets interesting if the numerical representation (number of bits, fixed, float, etc.) runs out of range. These days that's not likely to be a problem. There used to be a dilemma in summing a large number of digital or analog signals which was how to scale the output in the face of limited range. The most conservative approach is to assume full-scale on all inputs at the same instant, but this requires you to chop more off the bottom of the sum, raising the quantization (digital) or physical (analog) noise floor. In practice a large number of uncorrelated signals are unlikely to peak all at once. I remember having this discussion with one of Digidesign's engineers years ago. Like I said, not a problem anymore. If I'm wrong I'd like to know in what way. --Frank

Well my actual practical experience is limited to telephony and the open source package Asterisk.  The conference bridge module seemed to be a nightmare for the devs, was incredibly sensitive to timing (really didn't work without an external bits clock until rewritten in 2015 to take advantage of PC architecture changes to derive a precision timing reference) and until aforementioned rewrite was a CPU hog.  It also never sounded very good.  No transcoding was going on.  That took place in another module as everything on the software "crossbar" as we called it was transcoded to ma bell standard 8khz x 8bits PCM. 

So Frank here is where I am confused, summing is not a logical or boolean operation, it's mathematical so to me is an analog construct.  A1+B1=C1 but in the digital world where amplitude and frequency are coded in both the bit depth and the data.  IE: I get that if you load a 16bit audio word into a register and shift left or shift right you increase or decrease the volume.  From this I infer that summing multiple encoded streams (assuming lossless) you have all the usual problems of floating point arithmetic on a binary device mainly precision errors. 

I probably am way over complicating this. 
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Frank Koenig on September 14, 2019, 01:50:18 am
So Frank here is where I am confused, summing is not a logical or boolean operation, it's mathematical so to me is an analog construct.  A1+B1=C1 but in the digital world where amplitude and frequency are coded in both the bit depth and the data.  IE: I get that if you load a 16bit audio word into a register and shift left or shift right you increase or decrease the volume.  From this I infer that summing multiple encoded streams (assuming lossless) you have all the usual problems of floating point arithmetic on a binary device mainly precision errors. 

I probably am way over complicating this.

Summing linear pulse code modulation (PCM) signals, as we use in digital audio, is pretty straight forward. Each output sample is the numerical sum of the values of the input samples at that time. As long as nothing overflows that's all there is to it. We're summing waveforms in the time domain, just like analog.

y(n) = x1(n) + x2(n) + ... + xN(n)

Now telecom makes me think of a standard (CCITT?) for non-linear amplitude quantized PCM. This was done to achieve a greater dynamic range from a small word size, 8 bits, I think. They were good at building non-linear A-to-Ds and D-to-As and that worked fine. But summing, filtering, or doing pretty much any other processing on those signals was damn near impossible. So far as I know the signals were always converted to linear PCM internally for any processing (most likely using a look-up table).

I find it interesting that to this day pretty much all digital signal processing is performed on linearly amplitude quantized and uniformly time quantized signals. No one appears to have cracked the nut of non-linear processing. Fortunately, floating point processors, humongous word sizes, and fast processing keep linear processing viable. And, of course, signal-specific data compression, such as MP3 or JPEG, takes care of the transmission/storage problem obviating non-linear amplitude quantization.

I'm sleepy. I better shut up and go to bed now.

 --Frank
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 14, 2019, 03:14:36 am
How about some updates for the M/X32 app's?  Maybe some custom type layout options?

Read,yje whole thread.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on September 14, 2019, 03:18:03 am
Can it be a case of "different consoles sum audio differently?

I had a discussion with a colleague last night, he mixed the headliner on his choice of console, I mixed the opener on a different console. Both well-respected consoles. We ran into a issue on one console, it sounded like the mix hit a point where it compressed. So we had a look around, input levels were ok, bus levels were ok, no processing on the master etc. but for some reason once you hit the first yellow light on the master bus in one of the consoles, it sounded like it compressed. That console was routed through the other one by AES, and going straight through. No processing in the second console, we verified that also. So we ended up reducing the master level on the "compressing console" a bit and raising the level on the input fader on the second console and it was like the mix "came alive".

Strange.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Branimir Bozak on September 14, 2019, 09:33:48 am
There is nothing wrong with x32 or m32 preamps.

You tell me why on Pro series consoles low end is much more present, defined and not lost in the mix, compared to x32/m32.

You could hook up a DL251 to a X32, but the preamp and ad da quality will not improve the overall limitations of whatever the software is doing to actually sum the channels.

Both Vi and Si Soundcrafts have the same Lexicon chip/engine for reverbs, and the reverbs sound much better in the mix on the Vi, than on Si, given the opportunity to mix a lot on a Vi1 and using the Expression with compact stagebox (same preamps and adda as vi1), so I don't buy the whole summing thing is the same theory.

Take Ardour/Harrison Mixbus and Cubase. There is definately something going on differently with these two softwares, even when pushing just a couple of channels to sum.

Biggest limitation of these cheap consoles are their softwares, X32 + DL251 does not beat Pro2, even when playbacking a regular cd player on two channels.  8)

Fit the X32 with a Dante card and send the signal direct outed from a CL/Rio stagebox, yes you get nicer signal, more headroom, but still the mix is limited by the x32 software. Call it summing, call it crappy eq, crappy compressor, it still sound "small", "mp3" etc.

The Si Soundcraft has a nice sounding musical eq and really good compressor. Mixes still can't sound huge and separated, like on some other upper range console.

Summing.

Enter word clock quality/accuracy next!  ;D
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 14, 2019, 10:35:28 am
Word clock has ZERO affect on the *actual* quality of audio.  It has a huge placebo effect on some soundpersons, though.

Sort of like saying a different alarm clock makes the sunrise look nicer.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Frank Koenig on September 14, 2019, 11:08:36 am
Word clock has ZERO affect on the *actual* quality of audio.  It has a huge placebo effect on some soundpersons, though.

Sort of like saying a different alarm clock makes the sunrise look nicer.

Indeed.

1. Remove all effects from the signal chain.
2. Make sure nothing is near clipping. Have > 15 dB headroom.
3. Match levels exactly using nulling.
4. Do a BLIND listening test where you don't know which box you're listening to.

99% (maybe 100) of this BS will go away .

This is not a audiophile/fool forum. That's why I'm here.

--Frank
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on September 14, 2019, 11:43:33 am
Since I am the OP I would like to request that the responses stay on topic. I know this is the pot calling the kettle tarnished  ;D .

I like reading some of the off topic stuff but please start another thread for that. Thank you.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Scott Bolt on September 14, 2019, 12:29:42 pm
Since I am the OP I would like to request that the responses stay on topic. I know this is the pot calling the kettle tarnished  ;D .

I like reading some of the off topic stuff but please start another thread for that. Thank you.
Hi Kevin,

In keeping with your thread .....

The current firmware is already phase coherent.  There is no need for a change in this firmware to make "summing" better since it already has perfect signal summing.

Perhaps the algorithms used for eq and compression could be revisited to make a better sounding signal path.

My personal request though is that now that Music Group holds TC Helicon, could they (pretty please with sugar on top) give us an M3000 verb plugin?  I would even settle for other limitations on processing the channels using this effect to have this in my vocal chains.

My request priorities:

1)  M3000 reverb plug-in
2)  Better compression and eq algorithms
3)  Everything else :)
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 14, 2019, 03:46:15 pm
Scott, the TC FX are part of the new Midas Heritage D.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on September 14, 2019, 04:57:19 pm
I like reading some of the off topic stuff but please start another thread for that. Thank you.

I, too, have enjoyed learning about this important topic but understand your request to keep this thread on its stated topic.

Since the subject of how this digital stuff is treating the signal is of vital importance to our understanding of how one desk differs from another, perhaps a new sticky thread?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Scott Bolt on September 14, 2019, 10:18:36 pm
Scott, the TC FX are part of the new Midas Heritage D.
Hi Tim,

The Heritage D appears to have the TC M6000 reverb engine in it.  I have know that this algorithm would likely be more than anything the X32/M32 could do.  I was hoping .... just maybe .... they would put the older (and much less complex) M3000 engine into the X32/M32.

I could seriously see the next generation X32 successor being a cut-down heritage D (way cut down).  This is definitely how Music Group rolls these days (economy of scale).

I just watched the Heritage D video.  Wow.  Very nice ..... and SOOOOOOO far out of my price range!  But perhaps I could survive on the technological scraps that may fall into the low end :)
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 15, 2019, 09:15:57 am
Hi Tim,

The Heritage D appears to have the TC M6000 reverb engine in it.  I have know that this algorithm would likely be more than anything the X32/M32 could do.  I was hoping .... just maybe .... they would put the older (and much less complex) M3000 engine into the X32/M32.

I could seriously see the next generation X32 successor being a cut-down heritage D (way cut down).  This is definitely how Music Group rolls these days (economy of scale).

I just watched the Heritage D video.  Wow.  Very nice ..... and SOOOOOOO far out of my price range! But perhaps I could survive on the technological scraps that may fall into the low end :)

That is my thinking as well - sooner or later these will filter down.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Branimir Bozak on September 15, 2019, 03:45:43 pm
The Heritage-D is in developement for years now, and it's still not out.

The M32/X32 is their C64/Amiga, it will probably be in production until there is demand for them. If it ain't broken, why make a better product?  8) :o
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Scott Bolt on September 15, 2019, 04:12:37 pm
The Heritage-D is in developement for years now, and it's still not out.

The M32/X32 is their C64/Amiga, it will probably be in production until there is demand for them. If it ain't broken, why make a better product?  8) :o
I think the theory is that the Midas Pro 2 is being replaced with the Heritage-D, not the X32/M32.

I am hoping that the new firmware being discussed here for the X32/M32 is the bridge to hold the X32/M32 over another cycle until the trimmed down version of the Heritage-D can be made ready for release.

Ah well.... I am still holding out a little hope for the M3000 verb ;)
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Branimir Bozak on September 15, 2019, 05:24:39 pm
I was commenting your post regarding "the next M32" with trickled down technology from Heritage-D. I too think the D is the Pro1/2 succesor.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 15, 2019, 07:57:42 pm
I was commenting your post regarding "the next M32" with trickled down technology from Heritage-D. I too think the D is the Pro1/2 succesor.

The Pro series have been effectively "EOL'ed", or end of life except for the upgrades to the Pro 6/9 and the ProX.  Unless Midas has another entire mixer in process for release soon after the Heritage D I'd be surprised if the "D" wasn't meant to replace everything else in the Pro series.


Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 16, 2019, 04:04:40 am
Actually an M3000 and D2 sims would be awesome. There needs to be a simpler, more basic delay in the X32. I don't want stereo, ping ponging, phasing, chorusing delays. Just a simple delay with tap. Mono output, 15-20% feedback, adjustable hi and lo cuts. Thats it.

Actually what I'd love to have is an old fashioned analog bucket-brigade delay.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Taylor Hall on September 16, 2019, 09:29:17 am
The Pro series have been effectively "EOL'ed", or end of life except for the upgrades to the Pro 6/9 and the ProX.  Unless Midas has another entire mixer in process for release soon after the Heritage D I'd be surprised if the "D" wasn't meant to replace everything else in the Pro series.
That wouldn't shock me given that they've already let on that there will be a few other chassis sizes in the near future. They'll get feedback on the D-96 for a few months then either go forward with their existing size/feature plans for the larger/smaller consoles, or make a few small tweaks and then go into production.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on September 16, 2019, 08:03:57 pm
Actually an M3000 and D2 sims would be awesome. There needs to be a simpler, more basic delay in the X32. I don't want stereo, ping ponging, phasing, chorusing delays. Just a simple delay with tap. Mono output, 15-20% feedback, adjustable hi and lo cuts. Thats it.

I'm with you on this.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on September 17, 2019, 01:33:49 am
I knew that Iíd asked the devs this x32 reverb Q before and it was in the late-2016  8)

Quote
Actually the one that comes close to the VSS3 structure is the EMT, with different parameters though, that is called DVR2 in Reverb4000/6000.

Most of the other reverbs are based on a Lexicon style structure.

VSS style reverbs with lots of early reflections are currently not available on the X32 due to memory bandwidth limitations when using four of them.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Roland Clarke on September 17, 2019, 05:05:26 am
The problem might be down to both horsepower and the dsp engine they are using.  I believe the Heritage uses three dsp systems to deal with different aspects of the console system.  FPGA is great for mixing engines as itís fast, but I believe this is much more difficult for programming reverbs and effects.  Depending on what the X32 has inside, there maybe limitations to what level of fx complexity may be programmed.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Geert Friedhof on September 18, 2019, 06:04:13 am
Actually an M3000 and D2 sims would be awesome. There needs to be a simpler, more basic delay in the X32. I don't want stereo, ping ponging, phasing, chorusing delays. Just a simple delay with tap. Mono output, 15-20% feedback, adjustable hi and lo cuts. Thats it.

Actually what I'd love to have is an old fashioned analog bucket-brigade delay.

The current delay does all that, and can be easily set to mono. I use the assignables for tap, feedback and factor. I don't need a d2. A decent reverb however would be nice.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: John A Chiara on September 18, 2019, 11:15:27 am
The current delay does all that, and can be easily set to mono. I use the assignables for tap, feedback and factor. I don't need a d2. A decent reverb however would be nice.
Iíve had best luck with the Quantec Ďmodelí highly modified.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 18, 2019, 12:09:33 pm
The current delay does all that, and can be easily set to mono. I use the assignables for tap, feedback and factor. I don't need a d2. A decent reverb however would be nice.

I know it "can" and I have, certainly. But the built in delay's starting presets are too crazy for a basic mono slap. And if I haven't set it up before the gig, I don't want to fiddle with it while the band is playing. It's too much to tweak on the fly.

On a standalone D2 you just dial up "Straight 2290 Delay" and there you go.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on September 18, 2019, 12:17:31 pm
Why donít you create your own fx preset in the fx library?

I know it "can" and I have, certainly. But the built in delay's starting presets are too crazy for a basic mono slap. And if I haven't set it up before the gig, I don't want to fiddle with it while the band is playing. It's too much to tweak on the fly.

On a standalone D2 you just dial up "Straight 2290 Delay" and there you go.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 18, 2019, 12:41:07 pm
Why donít you create your own fx preset in the fx library?

Thats just too easy. I want behringer to code an entire new delay unit for me.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 18, 2019, 01:19:38 pm
Thats just too easy. I want behringer to code an entire new delay unit for me.

Rolls my eyes!
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Taylor Hall on September 18, 2019, 03:23:52 pm
Thats just too easy. I want behringer to code an entire new delay unit for me.


(https://media0.giphy.com/media/mvD5KI8k6TfUc/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: John A Chiara on September 19, 2019, 12:35:37 am
I know it "can" and I have, certainly. But the built in delay's starting presets are too crazy for a basic mono slap. And if I haven't set it up before the gig, I don't want to fiddle with it while the band is playing. It's too much to tweak on the fly.

On a standalone D2 you just dial up "Straight 2290 Delay" and there you go.
ĎToo much to tweak on the fly?í
Really? I reassemble FX all the time while the show is going on..
You can set up a preset.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on September 19, 2019, 03:12:38 pm
While hot bitches sounds inticing, you'll need to use your full real name to post here. Thanks for your cooperation.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 01, 2019, 11:36:38 am
V4 is now confirmed in the product description for the new dp48 monitoring system for the x/m32 mixers (or any aes50/supermac enabled device for that matter!).

https://www.midasconsoles.com/Categories/Midas/Signal-Processors/In-Ear-Monitoring/DP48/p/P0BMX
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Daniel Levi on October 01, 2019, 11:59:23 am
V4 is now confirmed in the product description for the new dp48 monitoring system for the x/m32 mixers (or any aes50/supermac enabled device for that matter!).

https://www.midasconsoles.com/Categories/Midas/Signal-Processors/In-Ear-Monitoring/DP48/p/P0BMX

Ooh interesting, I wonder what pricing will be of both the mixer and the HUB4 POE AES50 splitter. Looks to be 12 stereo groups with comp/eq on each group and a master reverb. Each group being stems from a selected number of channels of up to the 48 supported over AES50 (i.e. you could have all 48 channels coming into the mixer, but they would be in groups). It also allows you to have 2 separate mixes on each unit so two musicians could share one unit (although I believe the group channels are the same). Also seems to have a 2 track SD recorder on board.

Picture from the Midas website:
(https://media63.music-group.com/media/sys_master/h33/h51/8847657795614.png)

Manual: https://media63.music-group.com/media/PLM/data/docs/P0BMX/DP48_EN_QSG.pdf

But I do have to say, people are certinaly getting their monies worth out of the X/M32 range.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Taylor Hall on October 01, 2019, 01:37:53 pm
Tres chic. Not really a product that would see much (or any) use from me, but I'll be following its release closely since it will have to be hand-in-hand with the new console firmware.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Geert Friedhof on October 01, 2019, 02:48:05 pm
Wow. That DP48 thing looks like a really easy to use piece of equipment.

NOT
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Peter Kowalczyk on October 01, 2019, 03:32:54 pm
All this talk about X32 Effects brings to mind a couple bugs I'd love to see resolved.  Sorry if maybe these were already mentioned...

- Mixing last weekend on an X32 Rack, I adjusted the reverb 'Pre Delay' parameter while it was live.  It caused an audible glitch.  Not cool.  (I find it fascinating how sensitive our human ears are to something so seemingly minute as reverb parameters...  so, even though the glitch was only in the reverb tail, it was clearly audible).

- I observed a similar glitch a while back when inserting an FX Processor across the L/R Bus with live program material.  I presume this was due to the latency introduced by that processor.

...  Changes to parameters or signal inserts should never cause audible anomalies!  If they are unavoidable, a little warning / confirmation popup would be nice....


Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 01, 2019, 04:53:22 pm
You get up to speed on it after 10-15min. It is built with the end user in mind, in this case a musician.

An operator can remote control it if there should be any need.

Wow. That DP48 thing looks like a really easy to use piece of equipment.

NOT
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Luis_Marquez on October 02, 2019, 01:12:05 am
Anyone seen the pre V4 price increase on M/X32 products ??? My take is the DP48 to be plenty more than the current one.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Taylor Hall on October 02, 2019, 07:09:34 am
Anyone seen the pre V4 price increase on M/X32 products ??? My take is the DP48 to be plenty more than the current one.
All the usual suspects still list the M32 at $4999 and X32 at $2499 which is what they've been at since the 'M32 Live' SKU superseded the pre-facelift SKU.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Art Nadelman on October 02, 2019, 10:45:09 am
Anyone seen the pre V4 price increase on M/X32 products ??? My take is the DP48 to be plenty more than the current one.

The price increases in the US for the X/M32's were "due to the tariffs".

Art
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Daniel Levi on October 03, 2019, 03:36:27 pm
Going by their facebook post (Midas' that is), the DP48 can send the mixed audio BACK out the AES50 port so that if you have wireless IEM's you do not need an audio lead from the DP48 back to wireless world, just that the transmitter needs to be connected to an output somewhere on the AES50 network.

Also it gets colour coding/channel names from the mixer, so you know when patching exactly what channels are what, also they can be remote controlled from the mixer/mix engineer to assist performers on stage or, I suppose, to get extra monitor feeds if you run out of monitor/AUX sends. Plus at the same time it puts a headphone amp (well 2) on stage.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 03, 2019, 03:59:55 pm
And itís $400.

Yes, it feeds two different mixes (4ch) back down on the aes50 line.

Add a m32c, x32-rack or similar with dante/aes67/adat/madi/soundgrid/usb/firewire and you get a generic monitoring system for quite low money.

It can be used standalone with s16/s32 and this will let you interface to fully analog systems if you need to.

Going by their facebook post (Midas' that is), the DP48 can send the mixed audio BACK out the AES50 port so that if you have wireless IEM's you do not need an audio lead from the DP48 back to wireless world, just that the transmitter needs to be connected to an output somewhere on the AES50 network.

Also it gets colour coding/channel names from the mixer, so you know when patching exactly what channels are what, also they can be remote controlled from the mixer/mix engineer to assist performers on stage or, I suppose, to get extra monitor feeds if you run out of monitor/AUX sends. Plus at the same time it puts a headphone amp (well 2) on stage.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: brian maddox on October 03, 2019, 08:51:20 pm
And itís $400.

....

wow!
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 07, 2019, 03:19:28 pm
Iíve been playing around with the dp48/hub4 for a while. I really like this product since it integrates really well into my iem-rack  :-*


V4 is now confirmed in the product description for the new dp48 monitoring system for the x/m32 mixers (or any aes50/supermac enabled device for that matter!).

https://www.midasconsoles.com/Categories/Midas/Signal-Processors/In-Ear-Monitoring/DP48/p/P0BMX
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dave Dermont on October 07, 2019, 09:19:32 pm
I already admin/moderate the MusicTribe forum and that is more than enough mod work for me. Especially when the forum layout changed...

I just want to have this thread clean enough so I can forward the requests and maybe even point them to this thread.

Mr. Lofgren

Thank you for playing. It's nice you can be here.

While you can certainly make any kind of requests for your post thread that you like, Let me remind you that this is a member driven forum, and all forum members are welcome to participate as they see fit, as long as it stays within the well established forum rules.

It's nice you can build traffic in the forum. Please do not discount the value of the market research it provides. I bet that we could agree that a bit of topic swerve is a small price to pay.

Have a nice day.

Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 08, 2019, 12:54:18 am
Hi Dave,

I donít care too much about marketing. I am just your neighborhood soundguy. Iam not an employee and have never been an employee of any of the Behringer owned companies. I donít even collect money from them. I am just one of their volunteer forum admins.

I am fortunate enough to have developed friendships with many behringer guys over the years. One of the Ďbenefitsí is that I every now and then get the chance to betatest x32 related software and sometimes even a piece of hardware. I am a beta tester for other companies as well as they value my technical expertise and I for some sadistic reason enjoy doing this.

I have helped many users over the years and have helpfully forwarded user requests and concerns to the development teams over the years. Volunteerly and unpaid.

When I was told that there might be a v4 firmware release coming I was excited to push for as many features as possible and instead of retyping everything I just wanted to point the developers to this thread and say; ďHey guys, here is a great thread about pro-user requests that you must look atĒ. However, due to some of the posted content I am no longer interested to point the developers to this thread as I feel that it would me look bad and Iím not so sure that they would have enjoyed either. I have forwarded the requests though.

Are you saying that Iím not allowed to politely ask participants to be on the thread topic without a backlash? I was hoping for an understanding and respect to keep this thread as clean as possible by the participants and for the sake of the users who had genuine requests, but that didnít work out so well so I lost my excitement about collecting and pushing for user requests from this thread. So tell me, why should I care anymore...?

Marketing? Bah, humbug!

 

Mr. Lofgren

Thank you for playing. It's nice you can be here.

While you can certainly make any kind of requests for your post thread that you like, Let me remind you that this is a member driven forum, and all forum members are welcome to participate as they see fit, as long as it stays within the well established forum rules.

It's nice you can build traffic in the forum. Please do not discount the value of the market research it provides. I bet that we could agree that a bit of topic swerve is a small price to pay.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 08, 2019, 03:01:38 am
Hi Dave,

I donít care too much about marketing. I am just your neighborhood soundguy. Iam not an employee and have never been an employee of any of the Behringer owned companies. I donít even collect money from them. I am just one of their volunteer forum admins.

I am fortunate enough to have developed friendships with many behringer guys over the years. One of the Ďbenefitsí is that I every now and then get the chance to betatest x32 related software and sometimes even a piece of hardware. I am a beta tester for other companies as well as they value my technical expertise and I for some sadistic reason enjoy doing this.

I have helped many users over the years and have helpfully forwarded user requests and concerns to the development teams over the years. Volunteerly and unpaid.

When I was told that there might be a v4 firmware release coming I was excited to push for as many features as possible and instead of retyping everything I just wanted to point the developers to this thread and say; ďHey guys, here is a great thread about pro-user requests that you must look atĒ. However, due to some of the posted content I am no longer interested to point the developers to this thread as I feel that it would me look bad and Iím not so sure that they would have enjoyed either. I have forwarded the requests though.

Are you saying that Iím not allowed to politely ask participants to be on the thread topic without a backlash? I was hoping for an understanding and respect to keep this thread as clean as possible by the participants and for the sake of the users who had genuine requests, but that didnít work out so well so I lost my excitement about collecting and pushing for user requests from this thread. So tell me, why should I care anymore...?

Marketing? Bah, humbug!

There is a forum for recreational vehicle owners that has some very interesting moderation and rules.  If one deviates from the topic, the user can be "moderated" out of existence, but if another user (including the OP) suggests that folks stick to the topic, s/he will be admonished for stifling participation.  The LAB and its subforums are much better in terms of both quality of information and the sense of community that exists here.

That said, if the folks at Music Grope can't sift through a couple of not-strictly-for-them posts, bah and humbug.  They can either dismiss the input of end users ranging from beginners to seasoned professionals or overlook the few things that are not strictly topical.

It's not personal, Robert.  You can send your buddies a link to the thread and let them deal accordingly.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Alec Spence on October 10, 2019, 09:30:06 am
Back to Production Partner's firmware v4 "leaks", a new page (original (https://www.production-partner.de/test/behringer-x32-firmware-4), translation to English (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.production-partner.de%2Ftest%2Fbehringer-x32-firmware-4)) goes into a little more detail - and starts to look more credible.

A tweaked look & feel to the UI, a slightly kludgy way of making the "banks of 8" routing more flexible (while being backward compatible with existing scenes), support for the DP48.  The only thing really missing from my wish-list is custom layers & DCA spill, but they were always going to be tricky to implement given the layout of the control surface.

If this comes to pass for the 7 year old X32, then it's an unprecedented level of support in the audio world in my view.  There's a separate thread for the Si Expression/Performer where there's excitement over an update that's just landed with apparently a minor bugfix.  This is something else!  Assuming it arrives, and assuming that it all works, kudos again to Behringer.

Now then, what about the X32.2 / X64...?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Taylor Hall on October 10, 2019, 09:44:24 am
If this comes to pass for the 7 year old X32, then it's an unprecedented level of support in the audio world in my view.  There's a separate thread for the Si Expression/Performer where there's excitement over an update that's just landed with apparently a minor bugfix.  This is something else!  Assuming it arrives, and assuming that it all works, kudos again to Behringer.

Now then, what about the X32.2 / X64...?
When you consider the X/M32 families have a million or more units in the wild at this point, it's no surprise that they'd want to keep things as fresh as possible. The X32 was a highly disruptive product when it came to market, and if I were MG I'd want to ride that wave as long as possible, too. It's undoubtedly way cheaper to spend dev time on an existing product to extract additional features or streamline workflows compared to putting out something entirely new, but I agree what we're probably going to see some manner of "big brother" come out in a year or two.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Scott Olewiler on October 10, 2019, 09:59:39 am
Tres chic. Not really a product that would see much (or any) use from me, but I'll be following its release closely since it will have to be hand-in-hand with the new console firmware.

Yes, I didn't realize that building an IEM mix in an aux send using  a tablet had become so difficult that one needed this extra piece of gear now to do it.  Of course,  I never really understood why anyone would buy the PM16 units either outside of studio work.

But if you're running out of aux mixes for IEMs, (which could easily happen if you need multiple stereo mixes), these are likely a much cheaper route to go than upgrading to a more capable mixer. For 6 players, $1200 is worth not eating up 12 auxes.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 10, 2019, 10:19:39 am
The new routing is great. It combines your old workflow while it still gives you a much better granularity at the same time.

The blocks you all are so used to are still there. The change is now that you have access to a number of user defined blocks that you can setup freely as you like. Because of this smart trick they were able to workaround the inherent hardware limitation.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Bob Charest on October 10, 2019, 10:29:17 am
The new routing is great. It combines your old workflow while it still gives you a much better granularity at the same time.

The blocks you all are so used to are still there. The change is now that you have access to a number of user defined blocks that you can setup freely as you like. Because of this smart trick they were able to workaround the inherent hardware limitation.
Hi Robert,

I'll be interested in seeing what the new user defined blocks look like. I certainly wish this had been available back in 2016 when Paul (& you and others) were so helpful to us in using Aux In Remap & P16 Outs to solve our need... Sounds like this might be somewhat similar, but I'll wait to see the actual info.

Best regards,
Bob Charest
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 10, 2019, 10:42:18 am
Tnx Bob!

The picture published in the article shows the concept pretty well:

(https://www.production-partner.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Behringer-X32-Firmware-4-Copyright-Detlef-Hoepfner-DSC_3704.jpg)

Hi Robert,

I'll be interested in seeing what the new user defined blocks look like. I certainly wish this had been available back in 2016 when Paul (& you and others) were so helpful to us in using Aux In Remap & P16 Outs to solve our need... Sounds like this might be somewhat similar, but I'll wait to see the actual info.

Best regards,
Bob Charest
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Bob Charest on October 10, 2019, 10:56:17 am
Tnx Bob!

The picture published in the article shows the concept pretty well:

(https://www.production-partner.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Behringer-X32-Firmware-4-Copyright-Detlef-Hoepfner-DSC_3704.jpg)

You're most welcome, Robert! Thanks for the pic - That is very explanatory. I must've missed the link to the article you mention, so I'll go back through this thread and get myself informed.

Best regards,
Bob
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 10, 2019, 11:00:34 am
There are two things that comes to my mind - Tactile control and reverbs.

I am one of those who doesnít really like mixing on a tablet/phone 100%. For quick things like setting up monitor mixes and a tweak here and there itís not a big deal.

But if I am the one performing I donít want to fiddle with my phone, finding my way trying to quickly fix an issue or something in my iemís. It doesnít help if Iím singing and playing the guitar at the same time either. With quick access and tactile controls I can reach down without looking and quickly adjust something that could be bothering me.

Many sub-mix users complains about the shared reverbs and I understand that.

In the dp48 the reverb is per user. Also, you have your own access to compressors, limiters, eq, panning, etc with the dp48 so you are able to lo-cut that bass while still having a thumping kick.

With the Hub4 you get access to 16 analog outputs that are feed from your dp48ís. Placing the Hub4 in a rack with your wireless...!

A cool trick you can do with the dp48 and the forthcoming v4 routing is that you can input a click from the drummers dp48 imto the line inputs and distribute it back to the other dp48ís without using any of the valuable 38ch channel mixes. In instead you can use e.g. aes-ch48 that you normally donít use for this purpose. The onboard ambience mics can be used in a similar fashion.

Yes, I didn't realize that building an IEM mix in an aux send using  a tablet had become so difficult that one needed this extra piece of gear now to do it.  Of course,  I never really understood why anyone would buy the PM16 units either outside of studio work.

But if you're running out of aux mixes for IEMs, (which could easily happen if you need multiple stereo mixes), these are likely a much cheaper route to go than upgrading to a more capable mixer. For 6 players, $1200 is worth not eating up 12 auxes.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on October 10, 2019, 11:02:39 am
The new routing is great. It combines your old workflow while it still gives you a much better granularity at the same time.

The blocks you all are so used to are still there. The change is now that you have access to a number of user defined blocks that you can setup freely as you like. Because of this smart trick they were able to workaround the inherent hardware limitation.

So for example, will this new user routing allow you to use a combination of a stage box (or an X32rack) into an X32 and select 13 inputs from the stage box and 19 inputs from the X32? And can this be done in any combination of those 2 input devices?

Thank you for your help.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 10, 2019, 11:11:05 am
Absolutely!

And the Aux-remapping can also use those user routings so you can route to your heartís content. ;-)

One cool trick that I just love is that I setup the user routing for the normal Home-tab. I then use the same routing as for the x-live. Before the new routing there were instances where I could not record the same channels that I was mixing. I also sometimes forgot to change the routing on Home and Card so now since I give both Home and Card the same user blocks I only need to change the routing in one single place.

Scenes and snippets are both supported of course.

So for example, will this new user routing allow you to use a combination of a stage box (or an X32rack) into an X32 and select 13 inputs from the stage box and 19 inputs from the X32? And can this be done in any combination of those 2 input devices?

Thank you for your help.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Nate Zifra on October 10, 2019, 01:09:27 pm
Very interested in the Hub4, but nothing seems to be officially release yet.  Can you share any more with us? Does it have inputs and outputs as well as the AES outs?


Absolutely!

And the Aux-remapping can also use those user routings so you can route to your heartís content. ;-)

One cool trick that I just love is that I setup the user routing for the normal Home-tab. I then use the same routing as for the x-live. Before the new routing there were instances where I could not record the same channels that I was mixing. I also sometimes forgot to change the routing on Home and Card so now since I give both Home and Card the same user blocks I only need to change the routing in one single place.

Scenes and snippets are both supported of course.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: brian maddox on October 10, 2019, 02:25:01 pm
Yes, I didn't realize that building an IEM mix in an aux send using  a tablet had become so difficult that one needed this extra piece of gear now to do it.  Of course,  I never really understood why anyone would buy the PM16 units either outside of studio work.

But if you're running out of aux mixes for IEMs, (which could easily happen if you need multiple stereo mixes), these are likely a much cheaper route to go than upgrading to a more capable mixer. For 6 players, $1200 is worth not eating up 12 auxes.

Two words.  Church Band.  The personal monitor mixing thing is HUGE in the church market and since these are mostly amateur volunteer players, the simpler you can make things the better.  I've trained folks on iPhone IEM mixing, but nothing beats hardware for ease of use and predictability.

Personal monitor mixing is also great when your band goes from a 4-piece one week to a 23 piece the next [not uncommon in a church situation].  Just drop more P-16s/DP48s and you're good.

There are already existing solutions that are very capable, but the DP48 ticks all the boxes that need to be ticked for a product like this at an unprecedented price.  Which is kinda what TMG does....
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 11, 2019, 08:20:20 am
As mentioned before it has 16 analog outputs and is 1RU. It provides remote power to connected dp48ís.

Very interested in the Hub4, but nothing seems to be officially release yet.  Can you share any more with us? Does it have inputs and outputs as well as the AES outs?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Alec Spence on October 12, 2019, 01:12:54 pm
So, the original Production Partner Firmware v4 appears no longer live.

However, a quick search found this Reddit Page (https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/comments/dgb42e/x32_firmware_40_leak/), which appears to have found additional screenshots, which have been saved off to IMGUR.  To save time, here they are.  Not sure I see extra functionality anywhere else, but they do show the updated interface in action - quite a lot around presets.  And sorry if this is an image-heavy post, but might still be of interest.
(https://i.imgur.com/Od7G4H5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/22qdAA0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gzPJ7NV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gxtHN3n.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LDTkMpQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IE7kbx1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/v5oWF1h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kCTfj3C.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pMBukdx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y4yG209.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/c5pOw4h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xu4wNx4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/udqfofc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jOJfx79.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/f48Q0eg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JJqahDf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kRUV7dS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CubUaUW.jpg)


Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on October 12, 2019, 10:56:11 pm
So, the original Production Partner Firmware v4 appears no longer live.

However, a quick search found this Reddit Page (https://www.reddit.com/r/livesound/comments/dgb42e/x32_firmware_40_leak/), which appears to have found additional screenshots, which have been saved off to IMGUR.  To save time, here they are.  Not sure I see extra functionality anywhere else, but they do show the updated interface in action - quite a lot around presets.  And sorry if this is an image-heavy post, but might still be of interest.


It is indeed of interest! These graphics seem much easier to read than the existing ones, which is very welcome to these eyes.

The functionality improvement for the consoles is also muchly welcome.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Mark Norgren on October 13, 2019, 07:54:26 am
Does anyone else find it amusing that they have chosen to use a cassette player for the recorder?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 13, 2019, 08:13:07 am
I find it even more amusing that one show I recorded onto that usb-recorder ended up as a cassette tape release!

https://www.discogs.com/Les-Big-Byrd-Live-P%C3%A5-Sk%C3%A5-Festplats-17e-Juli-2015/release/7552361

 The circle is complete 8)

Does anyone else find it amusing that they have chosen to use a cassette player for the recorder?
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Nate Zifra on October 13, 2019, 08:35:50 am
On the hub, are the analog outputs xlr or 1/4?

Back to the original topic, I wonder if it would be possible to have the xcontrol protocol that is used for the xtouch available on all the mixers? That would provide an easy method to remote control say an X32 rack with a full size or compact size console, essentially leaving all the processing on stage like the dlive does.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Alec Spence on October 13, 2019, 09:11:09 am
I'm finding it amusing that examining some of the screenshots has got me looking at my X32 and discovering bits of functionality I didn't realise were there:

* The section at the top of the display showing the current USB WAV file and the playback time elapsed/remaining.  As well as a record indicator.
* Copy/Paste within Utility.
* The presets within Utility - doubt I'll use them, mind.

This really is a cracking mixer for the money!  My two big desires were for sub-8 channel routing and custom layouts.  Turns out I'll get the first.  I'll just have to carry on using soft patching to get me close (but not there) to the latter, albeit that X32-Edit and Mixing Station let me do it on screen.

Still can't work out exactly what the solution is for the routing banks.  I've got my interpretation, but will have to wait until I have my hands on it to be sure.  But am re-assured that it appears to do what's required.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: drew gandy on October 13, 2019, 10:07:10 am
It is indeed of interest! These graphics seem much easier to read than the existing ones, which is very welcome to these eyes.

The functionality improvement for the consoles is also muchly welcome.

To my eyes, it's looking a lot more like the old LS9 screen. 
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: drew gandy on October 13, 2019, 10:15:13 am
Does anyone else find it amusing that they have chosen to use a cassette player for the recorder?

It's always been the cassette deck image.  But it's not amusing when it stops recording randomly! 
I've had ongoing issues with this on multiple X32s.  Mostly the X32 Racks.  I've found it is very particular about which usb sticks it likes (not a new issue for digital mixers) BUT the issue doesn't always manifest itself right away.  I'll hit record and it will go for several minutes (sometimes even dozens of minutes) and then suddenly and without alert, will just stop.  Most recently I recorded a morning session fine.  Then for the 2nd session it looked like it was recording but stopped at some point.  The file it created for that session had zero k of data.  The 3rd session recorded fine. 

A classic cassette deck would be more reliable. 
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 13, 2019, 11:11:18 am
The problem is that they can not reproduce this issue.

Iíve asked users experiencing usb-stick issues to contact me. Iíve actually been in contact with a couple of people over the years claiming they can reproduce this problem or similarly related with some specific usb stick. After agreeing to send that usb-stick to the developers they never end up doing it, coming up with some sort of convoluted reason of why they never sent the usb-stick.

So, until the developers gets hold of an usb-stick that triggers these issues on a regular basis we are stuck with the occasional issue.

It's always been the cassette deck image.  But it's not amusing when it stops recording randomly! 
I've had ongoing issues with this on multiple X32s.  Mostly the X32 Racks.  I've found it is very particular about which usb sticks it likes (not a new issue for digital mixers) BUT the issue doesn't always manifest itself right away.  I'll hit record and it will go for several minutes (sometimes even dozens of minutes) and then suddenly and without alert, will just stop.  Most recently I recorded a morning session fine.  Then for the 2nd session it looked like it was recording but stopped at some point.  The file it created for that session had zero k of data.  The 3rd session recorded fine. 

A classic cassette deck would be more reliable.
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: drew gandy on October 13, 2019, 11:43:31 am
The problem is that they can not reproduce this issue.
That's what I've assumed. 
Quote
Iíve asked users experiencing usb-stick issues to contact me. Iíve actually been in contact with a couple of people over the years claiming they can reproduce this problem or similarly related with some specific usb stick. After agreeing to send that usb-stick to the developers they never end up doing it, coming up with some sort of convoluted reason of why they never sent the usb-stick.

So, until the developers gets hold of an usb-stick that triggers these issues on a regular basis we are stuck with the occasional issue.

PM sent. 
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on October 13, 2019, 12:34:55 pm
The problem is that they can not reproduce this issue.

Iíve asked users experiencing usb-stick issues to contact me. Iíve actually been in contact with a couple of people over the years claiming they can reproduce this problem or similarly related with some specific usb stick. After agreeing to send that usb-stick to the developers they never end up doing it, coming up with some sort of convoluted reason of why they never sent the usb-stick.

So, until the developers gets hold of an usb-stick that triggers these issues on a regular basis we are stuck with the occasional issue.

I know with my M32R when I have the Mute Groups going on the bottom of the screen if I push Mute Group 1 it will stop a X-Live recording under it as well. The stop recording button, Far Left button for X-Live is the same button used to turn on/off Mute Group 1. I'm guessing that this button is the same is for the USB Stop Record. I'm unsure with a full desk that has Mute group buttons if selecting that mute group would do it as well.
Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: John A Chiara on October 13, 2019, 01:33:13 pm
It's always been the cassette deck image.  But it's not amusing when it stops recording randomly! 
I've had ongoing issues with this on multiple X32s.  Mostly the X32 Racks.  I've found it is very particular about which usb sticks it likes (not a new issue for digital mixers) BUT the issue doesn't always manifest itself right away.  I'll hit record and it will go for several minutes (sometimes even dozens of minutes) and then suddenly and without alert, will just stop.  Most recently I recorded a morning session fine.  Then for the 2nd session it looked like it was recording but stopped at some point.  The file it created for that session had zero k of data.  The 3rd session recorded fine. 
I
A classic cassette deck would be more reliable.

Happens to me all the time... I almost want to keep a tablet just to monitor the recorder!!
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on October 15, 2019, 02:04:40 pm
So, Robert, probably everyone already knew this but I recently discovered that the Firmware Update for the X32 is EXACTLY the same one that's used to update the M32.

With that in mind, is it possible that the Firmware Update for the X-Touch is the same one that's used for the X-Touch Extender? I so much want to use those with M32R's, and am getting my ducks in a row to have the X-Touches ready for gigs. Having Extenders would make it sweeter yet.

Thanks!

(No, I haven't tried it, I'm on a trip where I've had time to think and have put those two above concepts together for the first time.)
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 15, 2019, 07:19:11 pm
Unfortunately not. The are totally different, even though I suspect that they are sharing most of the source code.

So, Robert, probably everyone already knew this but I recently discovered that the Firmware Update for the X32 is EXACTLY the same one that's used to update the M32.

With that in mind, is it possible that the Firmware Update for the X-Touch is the same one that's used for the X-Touch Extender? I so much want to use those with M32R's, and am getting my ducks in a row to have the X-Touches ready for gigs. Having Extenders would make it sweeter yet.

Thanks!

(No, I haven't tried it, I'm on a trip where I've had time to think and have put those two above concepts together for the first time.)
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on October 15, 2019, 09:08:29 pm
Unfortunately not. The are totally different, even though I suspect that they are sharing most of the source code.

 :'(
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on October 16, 2019, 05:49:17 am


In regards to the possible work around for the Block of 8 patching. Should a person run 2 AES50 cables from the desk to the stage,AES50A / AES50B and had 96 channels of stage boxes on the stage could these be mixed and matched as well? Of course 48 channels from A and 48 from B.

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: Possible X32 firmware rumored. Your suggestions?
Post by: Robert Lofgren on October 16, 2019, 08:01:09 am
As long as you stay within the console mixing capabilities of max 38ch, there should be no issue pulling from two different aes50 ports should you want to.

You will also be able to create snippets that changes your user blocks with a simple recall.



In regards to the possible work around for the Block of 8 patching. Should a person run 2 AES50 cables from the desk to the stage,AES50A / AES50B and had 96 channels of stage boxes on the stage could these be mixed and matched as well? Of course 48 channels from A and 48 from B.

Douglas R. Allen