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Title: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: vadim martynyuk on May 19, 2019, 09:13:00 pm
Have been using shure PGX-D for more than 5 years, (and recently got blx).
I use wired mics for the band and 2-3 wireless mics for talkers - hosts - guests etc.

With pgxd occasionally had little drops outs , but this last wedding gig it was unusable , drop outs and loud interference clicks
, rescanned frequencies - channels couple times no luck,
good thing I had and extra wireless mic shure blx,
blx worked flawlessly the entire day at distances around 200 ft.

Selling pgxd. And need to get reliable wireless mics (lavalier and handheld) ,
Even thou blx worked ok I havenít used it that much to determine if itís reliable.

Will be using the mics for talking mostly so reception reliability is higher priority than sound quality.

I was thinking BLX, GLXD or SLX systems
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Russell Ault on May 20, 2019, 02:39:04 am
I was thinking BLX, GLXD or SLX systems

Welcome to the forum!

2.4 GHz anything is basically a hard-avoid if you need it to actually work. Doesn't matter which mic, doesn't matter which manufacturer, 2.4 GHz is begging for poor reliability.

Do you need Shure mics? In the price range of the SLX you can get a Sennheiser EW100 G4 systems that are, to my mind, superior to the SLX stuff. If you do need Shure mics and can find a larger budget then I'd encourage you to take a look at QLXD. Otherwise, of the models you've listed, SLX is the only one I'd even think about spending money on, but personally I'd try for something better.

-Russ
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on May 20, 2019, 02:41:43 am
Have been using shure PGX-D for more than 5 years, (and recently got blx).
I use wired mics for the band and 2-3 wireless mics for talkers - hosts - guests etc.

With pgxd occasionally had little drops outs , but this last wedding gig it was unusable , drop outs and loud interference clicks
, rescanned frequencies - channels couple times no luck,
good thing I had and extra wireless mic shure blx,
blx worked flawlessly the entire day at distances around 200 ft.

Selling pgxd. And need to get reliable wireless mics (lavalier and handheld) ,
Even thou blx worked ok I havenít used it that much to determine if itís reliable.

Will be using the mics for talking mostly so reception reliability is higher priority than sound quality.

I was thinking BLX, GLXD or SLX systems
QLXD, honestly don't waste your money with less.  The QLXD is very high quality and has the features you need to properly manage them. 

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Jean-Pierre Coetzee on May 20, 2019, 03:42:35 am
No offence but QLX-D is a pricey piece of kit for some applications. If you are only running one or two channels and it is for wedding use get BLX-R units. I wouldn't settle for the BLX though, not having external/removable antennas are a non-starter. Agree with the 2.4GHz stuff, don't touch it.

Don't discount the Sennheiser units though, they are quite good I just really don't like how a large amount of their mics sound though but maybe its because I have used SM58s for so long...
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Kevin McDonough on May 20, 2019, 10:21:46 am
yeah as everyone else has said, it's such a shame that especially Shure, but also sennheiser and others, have insisted on moving all their more cost effective models to 2.4 GHz.

It always follows the same story of being fine in soundcheck when the room is empty, and then the problems start when the audience arrives and their mobile phones start filling up the radio space.

Sticking with the proper radio mic frequencies for whatever area/country you are in really does make a big difference.

Sennheiser ew100 is about the most cost effective between shure and sennheiser, and there are also other brands such as MiPro and JTS that have "middle ground" options that would work fine for a wedding band and are a cut above the really cheap DJ and karaoke systems, without being quite the expense of the higher up Shure/Senn models.

K
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Taylor Hall on May 20, 2019, 11:41:22 am
No offence but QLX-D is a pricey piece of kit for some applications. If you are only running one or two channels and it is for wedding use get BLX-R units. I wouldn't settle for the BLX though, not having external/removable antennas are a non-starter. Agree with the 2.4GHz stuff, don't touch it.
I'll echo this. We have several channels of BLX like this that we use for 'budget' rentals that still want a wireless setup. Easy to use, decent battery life, built in channel scanning, slam dunk for small events. Really the biggest downside to the BLX line is not having swappable capsules (if for no other reason than being able to replace it if damaged). They've paid for themselves about twice over at this point after a year and a half.
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on May 20, 2019, 12:42:56 pm
I'll echo this. We have several channels of BLX like this that we use for 'budget' rentals that still want a wireless setup. Easy to use, decent battery life, built in channel scanning, slam dunk for small events. Really the biggest downside to the BLX line is not having swappable capsules (if for no other reason than being able to replace it if damaged). They've paid for themselves about twice over at this point after a year and a half.

We still have CAD's in inventory that have paid for themselves 100 times, doesn't mean I would but more.

I was sticking with Shure produce.  It the QLX-D is too pricey (I am not fluent in current Sennheiser) I would have a good look at the JTS, the RU-901G3 is a good inflection point in their line.  Wide tuning range, great build quality.  Take Shure capsules.  (caveat we are dealers).  They are imported by ISI, the same people that brought FBT loudspeakers from Italy to US.
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Mike Caldwell on May 20, 2019, 03:47:35 pm
The revised Audio Technica 3000 series will now take Shure mic capsules.

.......I still don't know why they changed the connector on the body pack though!!

Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: vadim martynyuk on May 20, 2019, 11:39:33 pm
Thank you all.

Iíve had experience with Line6 before, was almost unusable, and heard bad things about line6 wireless.
 
was hoping shure 2.4ghz GLXD will be reliable due to their 3 streams per channel technology.. but I guess 2.4ghz is still 2.4ghz..

How good is BLX-R on finding reliable channel in congested RF and here w reliable is it compared to something mid-range like SLX ?
(even thou I have one BLX)
I have 2 PGXd systems, which are not reliable, but BLX is even more affordable so Iím being a little concerned.

and if I decide to expand mic count to letís say like 7 total, replacing wired mics to wireless, is BLX / BLX-R a good investment?

and another off topic question:
usIng different systems , letís say 2 SLX, 4 BLX, 2 sennheisers etc, will there be any interference between them, or best to stick to single system type ?
because Iíve seen on big shows a stack of about 10 shure systems and a stack of 10 sennheisers  working flawlessly



Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Matt Greiner on May 21, 2019, 12:14:05 am
nd another off topic question:
usIng different systems , letís say 2 SLX, 4 BLX, 2 sennheisers etc, will there be any interference between them, or best to stick to single system type ?
because Iíve seen on big shows a stack of about 10 shure systems and a stack of 10 sennheisers  working flawlessly

Without knowing what shows you've seen, I would venture a guess that they were Axient Systems (for Shure), which are well above the price point for the systems you've mentioned.  Again, a total shot in the dark guess, not knowing what shows.

I've personally had great luck with running 4 SLX systems at the same time, using a UA844 with 1/2 wave antennas.  But that's also in my market, and with my budget.

With the more budget friendly units, you get less bandwidth, which means fewer options in a congested RF environment.  However, it's not just the bandwidth to take into consideration, the features of each line also vary widely.

A few examples -
QLXD - 64 MHz of tuning bandwidth
SLX - 24 MHZ of tuning bandwidth
BLX - 30 MHz of tuning bandwidth
Axient Digital - 150 MHz of tuning bandwidth

Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Matt Greiner on May 21, 2019, 12:17:30 am
I wouldn't settle for the BLX though, not having external/removable antennas are a non-starter.

There are a few of the BLX units that are rackmountable and have external antennas.  They are designated with a "R" in the model number.  A church that I help with has several of these units, and they work great in that environment.  They are in a very rural town, however.  YMMV
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Jean-Pierre Coetzee on May 21, 2019, 06:37:25 am
There are a few of the BLX units that are rackmountable and have external antennas.  They are designated with a "R" in the model number.  A church that I help with has several of these units, and they work great in that environment.  They are in a very rural town, however.  YMMV

Not sure how you can read my post and miss the fact that I recommend the R version over the BLX...

I haven't had too many issues with the BLX series, it's not amazing though but if you aren't expecting a massive RF issue then go for it. Also keep in mind that RF isn't set and forget, specially in the US where you guys have a ton of RF congestion. IMHO if you want foolproof then buy some good long cables but if you really need 2 or 3 channels of wireless the BLX-R will probably get you there.

There have been some recommendations from other guys for what I've only known as off brand systems and these are people I trust so I think they are worth a look as well.
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Brian Adams on May 21, 2019, 10:24:26 am
I have 2 GLXD guitar wireless, which I use with a couple of my acts. I bought them after I worked with quite a few B-level national acts who were using them for guitar and bass. They work really well, but I don't think I'd rely on them as my primary wireless. They can have issues in a really crowded Wifi environment. I've only run into that once, but there was literally nothing I could do to make them work in that space. I think it was lighting and wireless DMX causing the issue, but I never conclusively tracked it down.

I sold some BLX and distros to a church in my area, and it works very well for them. The transmitters are plastic, but that's what you get at that price point. I've used QLXD with excellent results. My inventory is all ULXD, which is great. The SB900 rechargeables you can use with QLXD and ULXD are fantastic.
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Matt Greiner on May 21, 2019, 11:10:48 am
Not sure how you can read my post and miss the fact that I recommend the R version over the BLX...

Well it's pretty simple actually how missed it, I think it was a lack of sleep.....  lol. All of the Shure letters were merging in my head apparently.

 Yes as I reread your post, I see that now. 
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Taylor Hall on May 21, 2019, 11:21:29 am
How good is BLX-R on finding reliable channel in congested RF and here w reliable is it compared to something mid-range like SLX ?
(even thou I have one BLX)
I have 2 PGXd systems, which are not reliable, but BLX is even more affordable so Iím being a little concerned.

and if I decide to expand mic count to letís say like 7 total, replacing wired mics to wireless, is BLX / BLX-R a good investment?

and another off topic question:
usIng different systems , letís say 2 SLX, 4 BLX, 2 sennheisers etc, will there be any interference between them, or best to stick to single system type ?
because Iíve seen on big shows a stack of about 10 shure systems and a stack of 10 sennheisers  working flawlessly
It's pretty good at finding usable holes in its wireless band, I might check them once or twice a day to be sure nothing else bumps into it if it's not a dry-rent. We usually use these in set-and-forget situations however, and rarely in RF dense areas if we can help it.

As far as investment, BLX is a great bang for buck product, but when you compare it to the Senn EW lineup you can get some of the same features that are only available in GLX and up for a $100 or so more per channel. Swappable capsules, li-ion batteries, more robust tx/rx display info, etc.

It's not unheard of to mix brands/models, just be sure their frequency bands aren't stepping all over each other. Having a homologous setup is always preferred, though.
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Russell Ault on May 22, 2019, 12:16:36 am
usIng different systems , letís say 2 SLX, 4 BLX, 2 sennheisers etc, will there be any interference between them, or best to stick to single system type ?
because Iíve seen on big shows a stack of about 10 shure systems and a stack of 10 sennheisers  working flawlessly

Making one wireless microphone work involves making sure nothing outside your show is interfering with it. This is something that scanning will reliably do for you.

Making two wireless microphones work involves making sure nothing outside your show is interfering with them, and also that they aren't interfering with each other. Again, scanning will handle this with no problem.

Making three or more wireless microphones work involves making sure nothing outside your show is interfering with them, and also that they aren't interfering with each other, and also that the additional spurious RF noise produced by operating two or more wireless transmitters in close proximity (called inter-modulation distortion, or IMD) isn't interfering with the other mics. This requires both scanning (for the first part), and math. Lots of math.

By way of example: two microphones operating at 500 MHz and 501 MHz, when placed in close proximity, will produce IMD that will show up strongest at 499 MHz and 502 MHz, a bit less strong at 498 MHz and 503 MHz, still weaker at 497 MHz and 504 MHz, etc. The math itself is very simple, but you have to do this analysis for each pair of microphones. Then, if you're using lots of mics in very close proximity, you do the same analysis again but using three microphones at a time. Lots and lots of math.

Wireless microphone manufacturers try to save you the math by creating pre-defined combinations of frequencies that won't produce IMD that will interfere with other mics in the same combination of frequencies. Shure refers to these as Groups. If you only use one kind of wireless microphone, all in the same Band, and select all your channels from the same Group, then you shouldn't really ever run into IMD problems. This is why it's typically recommended to stick with a single system type: it can make life easier.

When you mix manufacturers, or lines of gear from the same manufacturer, or even different Bands from the same line of gear, you can't rely on the built-in Groups to prevent IMD interference. This means you have to do the math part yourself or, more correctly, you have to learn how to use a piece of software to do this math for you. This is called frequency coordination, and there are several people on this forum who do this for a living.

Those professionals almost invariably use a piece of software called IAS (http://www.professionalwireless.com/product/intermodulation-analysis-system/). It's very powerful, which is important if you're, say, coordinating a football game using 150+ wireless microphones/IEMs/IFBs/etc., but for a dozen mics it's overkill, especially at that price. Personally, I (and many of the rest of us who can't justify buying IAS) use Shure's Wireless Workbench (https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/software/wwb6), which includes profiles for many other manufacturers' equipment (including Sennheiser) and is also free.

TL;DR: It's absolutely possible to make a couple SLX, a couple BLX, and a couple Sennheiser mics all work together in harmony, but you have to know how to coordinate their frequencies.

-Russ
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Scott Helmke on May 22, 2019, 08:43:52 am
Nicely written, Russell!

Regarding IAS vs. Wireless Workbench, I have both but tend to use WWB more often even in complicated multi-stage events.
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Pete Erskine on May 22, 2019, 03:10:05 pm
Audio Technica System 10 is one of the best 2.4 GHz systems around and not too expensive.  Sort of an MI quality build but I have seen it work really well.  Digital 24-bit/48 kHz wireless operation for ultimate sound quality and dependable performance

2.4 GHz range Ė completely free from TV interference
Three levels of diversity assurance: frequency, time, & space
Automatic frequency selection for seamless, interference-free operation
Extremely easy operation with instantaneous channel selection, sync, and set-up
State-of-the-art digital receiver for reliable performance
Balanced XLR and unbalanced 1/4Ē output jacks with level control

https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wls_systems/b8c9b60d06ff6943/index.html
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Jay Marr on May 29, 2019, 04:43:04 pm
I have 2 GLXD guitar wireless, which I use with a couple of my acts. I bought them after I worked with quite a few B-level national acts who were using them for guitar and bass. They work really well, but I don't think I'd rely on them as my primary wireless. They can have issues in a really crowded Wifi environment. I've only run into that once, but there was literally nothing I could do to make them work in that space. I think it was lighting and wireless DMX causing the issue, but I never conclusively tracked it down.


I have the GLXD guitar wireless as well.  Biggest issue I run into is proximity to routers.  Some venues I have no control over that though because the venue has it mounted and I can only move my guitar rig so far away from it.
I keep it because I play rhythm guitar for the most part and if I have an issue mid show....not the end of the world.
I am however the lead vocalist and would never rely on a GLXD for a wireless mic.

Just got a Senn G4 965, and it's smooth and clear.
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Don Gspann on May 29, 2019, 10:29:32 pm
I have the GLXD guitar wireless as well.  Biggest issue I run into is proximity to routers.  Some venues I have no control over that though because the venue has it mounted and I can only move my guitar rig so far away from it.
I keep it because I play rhythm guitar for the most part and if I have an issue mid show....not the end of the world.
I am however the lead vocalist and would never rely on a GLXD for a wireless mic.


Just got a Senn G4 965, and it's smooth and clear.


For a lower cost Shure wireless, look at the PGXD1 900 MHz. I have a friend who has been using 4 in different hotels and has had no issues. He also uses the BLX. He tried 2.4 GHz and it was useless. Only downside with the PGXD1 is itís not rackmount nor does it have removable antennas, but that have been working very well in many different locations. He also has a QLXD!
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: vadim martynyuk on July 17, 2019, 06:32:24 pm
Used SLX systems sell for around the same price as new (and even used) BLX. is there any reason to get SLX instead of BLX ?
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: vadim martynyuk on July 17, 2019, 06:33:44 pm

For a lower cost Shure wireless, look at the PGXD1 900 MHz. I have a friend who has been using 4 in different hotels and has had no issues. He also uses the BLX. He tried 2.4 GHz and it was useless. Only downside with the PGXD1 is itís not rackmount nor does it have removable antennas, but that have been working very well in many different locations. He also has a QLXD!

I already have PGXD (read my original post), not happy with it
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Don Gspann on July 18, 2019, 09:00:53 am
I already have PGXD (read my original post), not happy with it

PGXD1. Read my post correctly
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Robert Piascik on July 18, 2019, 11:43:12 am
QLXD or above IMO. Used about $850, not unreasonable for something that WORKS! You can get cheaper but ďthe wrong piece of gear at the right price is still the wrong piece of gearĒ
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: vadim martynyuk on July 18, 2019, 03:24:55 pm
PGXD1. Read my post correctly

PGXD1 is a body-pack transmitter of PGXD system, still the system is PGXD..

Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Don Gspann on July 18, 2019, 08:13:28 pm
PGXD1 is a body-pack transmitter of PGXD system, still the system is PGXD..

Sorry, but for a time they had using PGXD1 so so you could tell it was  now 900 MHz,  not 2.4 GHz. The 900 MHz have been working well, 2.4, not so much
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: vadim martynyuk on July 19, 2019, 12:16:38 pm
Sorry, but for a time they had using PGXD1 so so you could tell it was  now 900 MHz,  not 2.4 GHz. The 900 MHz have been working well, 2.4, not so much

I thought all PGXD are 900mhz but digital
Title: Re: 2.4ghz (shure GLXD) or not to ?
Post by: Don Gspann on July 19, 2019, 12:47:04 pm
I thought all PGXD are 900mhz but digital

 They were originally 2.4, I still have one.