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Title: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Kevin_Tisdall on May 15, 2019, 12:49:27 pm
I was hoping Luminaire (which I have) could do two universes.  From what I read it can not.

I have a fill lighting setup and recently got some cheapo movers to play with.  I wanted to use those in a second universe.  I have all the hardware to do that but now need to start programming.  Am I out of luck?  Could I run a second ipad with Luminaire pointed at the second dmxking converter that the movers live on?  Is there another better app to do two universes on that won't cost an arm leg and part of torso?

--Kevin
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Taylor Hall on May 15, 2019, 01:24:47 pm
Correct, luminair only supports a single universe.

You could run two instances of the app, just be mindful of the wired/wireless networks being used and keep the two ipads segmented on a different network (and its corresponding universe). So network A can only access fixtures for universe A and so on.

QLC+ is another (free) option that supports any number of universes, you would just need the requisite amount of USB>DMX interfaces. It is not app-driven, though, and must be run on a computer. It does run on Windows, Mac or Linux, and is fairly lightweight so you don't need a beast of a machine to run it even with dozens of fixtures. It also has a remote network utility built in, so you could still access that via wifi on your ipad through a regular browser and tweak things from there.

The only downside here is that you'll have to reprogram everything from scratch, but QLC has a vast fixture definition library and is pretty intuitive after playing with it for a little while. We currently use it across three universes, but will be moving over to ArtNET very soon
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Kevin_Tisdall on May 15, 2019, 03:42:20 pm
Correct, luminair only supports a single universe.

You could run two instances of the app, just be mindful of the wired/wireless networks being used and keep the two ipads segmented on a different network (and its corresponding universe). So network A can only access fixtures for universe A and so on.

QLC+ is another (free) option that supports any number of universes, you would just need the requisite amount of USB>DMX interfaces. It is not app-driven, though, and must be run on a computer. It does run on Windows, Mac or Linux, and is fairly lightweight so you don't need a beast of a machine to run it even with dozens of fixtures. It also has a remote network utility built in, so you could still access that via wifi on your ipad through a regular browser and tweak things from there.

The only downside here is that you'll have to reprogram everything from scratch, but QLC has a vast fixture definition library and is pretty intuitive after playing with it for a little while. We currently use it across three universes, but will be moving over to ArtNET very soon

Thanks I don't really want to set up a PC for this.   Oddly, I can't seem to find ANY other dmx ios controllers in the apple app store.   Is Luminaire now the only game in town?

--Kevin
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 15, 2019, 09:20:41 pm
I run 2 iPads and set one for sACN and the other for ART-NET. Works great.
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Kevin_Tisdall on May 16, 2019, 10:44:23 am
I run 2 iPads and set one for sACN and the other for ART-NET. Works great.

Somehow I knew you'd have a solution (not that a second ipad is cheap either...).

Can you give more detail on this setup?  Is running sACN just a setup selection in luminaire and the dmxking Ethernet/dmx converter?

Thanks in advance for any details.  No particular rush.

--Kevin
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Taylor Hall on May 16, 2019, 11:19:19 am
Somehow I knew you'd have a solution (not that a second ipad is cheap either...).

Can you give more detail on this setup?  Is running sACN just a setup selection in luminaire and the dmxking Ethernet/dmx converter?

Thanks in advance for any details.  No particular rush.

--Kevin
Correct, the various modes of operation (sACN, ArtNET and MIDI) are under the settings tab in the app. The only thing you'll need to configure in your DMX controller is the IP for the ArtNET "node". Just be sure to label your controllers as such so that you're not trying to push the wrong protocol to it and getting left in the dark. ;) 

Note that ArtNET is an IP-based method of transmitting the DMX protocol, so you'll need a basic understanding of networking principles to set it all up and a DMX interface that is able to utilize it. Since you mentioned DMXKing, all of their current eDMX products support it, but I don't know about their legacy products (LeDMX, etc). Enttec has a few models that support ArtNET as well.
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Kevin_Tisdall on May 16, 2019, 11:38:49 am
Correct, the various modes of operation (sACN, ArtNET and MIDI) are under the settings tab in the app. The only thing you'll need to configure in your DMX controller is the IP for the ArtNET "node". Just be sure to label your controllers as such so that you're not trying to push the wrong protocol to it and getting left in the dark. ;) 

Note that ArtNET is an IP-based method of transmitting the DMX protocol, so you'll need a basic understanding of networking principles to set it all up and a DMX interface that is able to utilize it. Since you mentioned DMXKing, all of their current eDMX products support it, but I don't know about their legacy products (LeDMX, etc). Enttec has a few models that support ArtNET as well.

Thanks I'm a network admin so IP is no problem.  I have two of the the edmx units.

--Kevin
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 16, 2019, 11:40:20 am
Somehow I knew you'd have a solution (not that a second ipad is cheap either...).

Can you give more detail on this setup?  Is running sACN just a setup selection in luminaire and the dmxking Ethernet/dmx converter?

Thanks in advance for any details.  No particular rush.

--Kevin

Yes that is right. To get both systems working at the same time you need not only 2 iPads but 2 nodes also ( getting expensive isn't it? - sorry).
I had an extra one anyway because I take spares to shows for almost everything and as the DMX node is such an important part of my kit, I always carried 2. I have an Enttec and a DMX king. Enttec is set to art-net and the DMX King set to sACN.
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Kevin_Tisdall on May 16, 2019, 12:09:03 pm
Yes that is right. To get both systems working at the same time you need not only 2 iPads but 2 nodes also ( getting expensive isn't it? - sorry).
I had an extra one anyway because I take spares to shows for almost everything and as the DMX node is such an important part of my kit, I always carried 2. I have an Enttec and a DMX king. Enttec is set to art-net and the DMX King set to sACN.

Thanks Deb.  I'll play with it and ask more questions if I have them.  Didn't know they were able to be split sACN / Art-Net so that info is very helpful. 

Can you run over the same wifi / ip range as long as the ipads, and nodes are addressed and 'pointed' at correctly?

Can all this be on the same 5ghz wifi my x32 is running and being controlled (by yet another ipad)?  Again, given all the ip addressing is sorted out?

--Kevin
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 16, 2019, 03:57:24 pm
Thanks Deb.  I'll play with it and ask more questions if I have them.  Didn't know they were able to be split sACN / Art-Net so that info is very helpful. 

Can you run over the same wifi / ip range as long as the ipads, and nodes are addressed and 'pointed' at correctly?

Can all this be on the same 5ghz wifi my x32 is running and being controlled (by yet another ipad)?  Again, given all the ip addressing is sorted out?

--Kevin

I use the same router for sound and both nodes.
I found this all out one day when I was experimenting with everything looking for something else and I didn't even know what sACN was. I looked it up and played around with it and realized I could control 2 different universes if I used the 2 different protocols.
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Kevin_Tisdall on May 21, 2019, 12:17:50 pm
So just as an update and FYI for all, I finally got this working:

2 ipads each running luminaire 3.
1 Airport Extreme @ 5ghz
2 edmxking ethernet-dmx nodes
donner wireless 2.4ghz dmz transmitters/receivers (transmitter from each node, set to different color/channel, coordinated with the lights' receivers)

I got this all set up and wired but could not make it work.  So I tried to simplify down to my existing (working) project with a wired dmx connection from node to lights.  Nada.

Called DmxKing and within 3 min was talking with a knowlegable, calm, organized tech.  He showed me how to make the nodes manually put out every dmx channel full on (you could edit any channel if desired but it's in hexadecimal).  That made the lights come on.  Then we worked backwards and he found that my ipad switched wifi nets so it wasn't controlling the node....... Grrrrr.   He also explained how to do the two-universe thing in luminaire 3 and coordinate it with the nodes.  It doesn't make a single instance of luminaire into a multi-universe controller but allows two instances of luminaire to work in parallel.

Kudos to dmxking support - very helpful when my head was overwhelmed with how to troubleshoot.

So the end setup is:  Both ipads/Luminair3 run sACN with Art-Net turned off.  On ipad #1 I set the existing projects (fill lights) to use universe 1 and the edmxking node  connected is set to DMX out and Universe 1.

On ipad #2 I want to control movers in more of a busking way.  So Luminaire 3 on that ipad is set to sACN with universe 2.  Same wifi network. That ipad looks to the second edmxking node which is set to dmx out and universe 2.

Seemed to work in my family room and I made the cats nuts with lights swinging and blinking, so much progress was made.  Now to figure out programming the (super-cheapo-chinese) movers to look like something.


--Kevin

Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Taylor Hall on May 21, 2019, 01:33:57 pm
Glad to hear you got it working, even with a bit of fuss. Be sure to show us the finished product when you have your next gig!
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Steve Garris on May 21, 2019, 01:38:11 pm
I sure wish Luminair would do some updates to the interface. Why are the cue buttons so big, and not resize-able? If the buttons could be smaller I could have my entire preset scene cues on one page. I hate scrolling around looking for a giant button.
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 21, 2019, 02:02:29 pm
So just as an update and FYI for all, I finally got this working:

2 ipads each running luminaire 3.
1 Airport Extreme @ 5ghz
2 edmxking ethernet-dmx nodes
donner wireless 2.4ghz dmz transmitters/receivers (transmitter from each node, set to different color/channel, coordinated with the lights' receivers)

I got this all set up and wired but could not make it work.  So I tried to simplify down to my existing (working) project with a wired dmx connection from node to lights.  Nada.

Called DmxKing and within 3 min was talking with a knowlegable, calm, organized tech.  He showed me how to make the nodes manually put out every dmx channel full on (you could edit any channel if desired but it's in hexadecimal).  That made the lights come on.  Then we worked backwards and he found that my ipad switched wifi nets so it wasn't controlling the node....... Grrrrr.   He also explained how to do the two-universe thing in luminaire 3 and coordinate it with the nodes.  It doesn't make a single instance of luminaire into a multi-universe controller but allows two instances of luminaire to work in parallel.

Kudos to dmxking support - very helpful when my head was overwhelmed with how to troubleshoot.

So the end setup is:  Both ipads/Luminair3 run sACN with Art-Net turned off.  On ipad #1 I set the existing projects (fill lights) to use universe 1 and the edmxking node  connected is set to DMX out and Universe 1.

On ipad #2 I want to control movers in more of a busking way.  So Luminaire 3 on that ipad is set to sACN with universe 2.  Same wifi network. That ipad looks to the second edmxking node which is set to dmx out and universe 2.

Seemed to work in my family room and I made the cats nuts with lights swinging and blinking, so much progress was made.  Now to figure out programming the (super-cheapo-chinese) movers to look like something.


--Kevin

Good job!... I am surprised you didn't get the sACN/art-net method working. I simply switched the protocols in the Luminair programs on my iPads - one in iPad 1 to art-net and the second in iPad 2 to sACN, and they have always worked ever since for me.
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 21, 2019, 02:13:53 pm
I just thought of something that might have affected your first experiment trying sACN on one iPad and art-net on the other.....
I have found that if I use say my iPhone to quickly check that Luminair is up and working but leave the control set to blackout, even if I close the program on my iPhone and then attempt to use my iPad that is dedicated to lights, that the iPad  doesn't  appear to work. It seems to save the blackout command from the first device whether I close the app on that device or not and no matter what I select on the second iPad.
So what I have to do is make sure if I want to switch devices during the same show, I must leave the first device control set to anything but blackout before closing the app. Then when I start using my other device, it works fine.
For clarification as to why I use a different device sometimes..... I'll quickly use my iPhone that I keep in my pocket to test the lights once set just to make sure everything is working... my lighting iPad get switched on closer to show time - no need before.

Maybe in your going back and forth between devices, you did something similar??

Moot point now you have it working but I thought worth a mention....
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Dave Garoutte on May 21, 2019, 03:51:24 pm
I sure wish Luminair would do some updates to the interface. Why are the cue buttons so big, and not resize-able? If the buttons could be smaller I could have my entire preset scene cues on one page. I hate scrolling around looking for a giant button.

At the bottom right of the cue button widow, there's a icon to make it full screen.
Lots more cue buttons!
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Steve Garris on May 22, 2019, 03:13:54 pm
At the bottom right of the cue button widow, there's a icon to make it full screen.
Lots more cue buttons!

Yes, but on an iPad in horizontal mode it goes from 8 small buttons that are just right in size, to 9 large buttons that could be much smaller. You can only get 12 buttons in portrait mode.

If they would make a screen that allows just the smaller buttons, I could have 45 buttons on one page.
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Kevin_Tisdall on May 23, 2019, 10:32:25 am
I just thought of something that might have affected your first experiment trying sACN on one iPad and art-net on the other.....
I have found that if I use say my iPhone to quickly check that Luminair is up and working but leave the control set to blackout, even if I close the program on my iPhone and then attempt to use my iPad that is dedicated to lights, that the iPad  doesn't  appear to work. It seems to save the blackout command from the first device whether I close the app on that device or not and no matter what I select on the second iPad.
So what I have to do is make sure if I want to switch devices during the same show, I must leave the first device control set to anything but blackout before closing the app. Then when I start using my other device, it works fine.
For clarification as to why I use a different device sometimes..... I'll quickly use my iPhone that I keep in my pocket to test the lights once set just to make sure everything is working... my lighting iPad get switched on closer to show time - no need before.

Maybe in your going back and forth between devices, you did something similar??

Moot point now you have it working but I thought worth a mention....


Deb - there is a setting either on the nodes or Luminair (I'm not near them at the moment) that modifies that performance when using multiple devices.  I didn't understand what it was until you described it.   Sort of like accounting rules of FIFO or LIFO.....   Maybe fiddling with that will eliminate the need to be careful (or blow up the whole setup).   

--Kevin
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Kevin_Tisdall on May 23, 2019, 10:35:03 am
Steve - I agree  the user interface could be much more straightforward.  Took me forever to find those tiny minimize/maximize arrows.    Same for the fader page.  Programming is a bitch rolling left-right through the faders.   Gets confusing.

--Kevin
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 23, 2019, 10:53:50 am

Deb - there is a setting either on the nodes or Luminair (I'm not near them at the moment) that modifies that performance when using multiple devices.  I didn't understand what it was until you described it.   Sort of like accounting rules of FIFO or LIFO.....   Maybe fiddling with that will eliminate the need to be careful (or blow up the whole setup).   

--Kevin

Thanks Kevin ...yes - there are quite a few settings available on the Luminair app but to be honest, but I am a little unsure of what some actually do.  I have experimented with them in the past and once I got to where I need to be, I left well alone but  I'll experiment a bit more and see if I can prevent this from occurring.
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Dave Garoutte on May 23, 2019, 01:23:11 pm
Yes, but on an iPad in horizontal mode it goes from 8 small buttons that are just right in size, to 9 large buttons that could be much smaller. You can only get 12 buttons in portrait mode.

If they would make a screen that allows just the smaller buttons, I could have 45 buttons on one page.

??

Here is a shot of before and after hitting the expando button (bottom right).
Plenty of room for more buttons.
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Steve Garris on May 24, 2019, 02:40:42 pm
??

Here is a shot of before and after hitting the expando button (bottom right).
Plenty of room for more buttons.

I cannot get that on my screen. I even discussed it with Debbie. Is your version Luminair3?

I would love to get my cue buttons that small!

Here is what I see on my screen:
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 24, 2019, 03:08:53 pm
I cannot get that on my screen. I even discussed it with Debbie. Is your version Luminair3?

I would love to get my cue buttons that small!

Here is what I see on my screen:

Just checked and I am using v3.7.3 - the most up to date firmware and I see the same as you Steve...
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 24, 2019, 03:43:45 pm
I just thought of something that might have affected your first experiment trying sACN on one iPad and art-net on the other.....
I have found that if I use say my iPhone to quickly check that Luminair is up and working but leave the control set to blackout, even if I close the program on my iPhone and then attempt to use my iPad that is dedicated to lights, that the iPad  doesn't  appear to work. It seems to save the blackout command from the first device whether I close the app on that device or not and no matter what I select on the second iPad.
So what I have to do is make sure if I want to switch devices during the same show, I must leave the first device control set to anything but blackout before closing the app. Then when I start using my other device, it works fine.
For clarification as to why I use a different device sometimes..... I'll quickly use my iPhone that I keep in my pocket to test the lights once set just to make sure everything is working... my lighting iPad get switched on closer to show time - no need before.

Maybe in your going back and forth between devices, you did something similar??

Moot point now you have it working but I thought worth a mention....

Whilst playing with the lights today, I realized what I said the other day was backwards ..... the problem I was pointing out arises UNLESS you hit blackout on the device you have been using but no longer wish to - DUH.
Sorry ..... I am convinced that as I learn new things, some of the older stuff falls off the back edge...I'll have to stop learning new things I suppose.
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Dave Garoutte on May 24, 2019, 03:53:50 pm
I cannot get that on my screen. I even discussed it with Debbie. Is your version Luminair3?

I would love to get my cue buttons that small!

Here is what I see on my screen:

You aren't going to believe the fix!

Pinch the image smaller!! :o :D

I found it in the included tutorial.
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on May 24, 2019, 04:23:04 pm
You aren't going to believe the fix!

Pinch the image smaller!! :o :D

I found it in the included tutorial.

OMG Dave - LOL.... I just got all but 2 of the icons on my screen at the same time - nice one!!
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Steve Garris on May 24, 2019, 05:37:05 pm
OMG Dave - LOL.... I just got all but 2 of the icons on my screen at the same time - nice one!!

Not working for me. I have the giant buttons showing. Tried every imaginable "pinching" but nothing changes. Is there an iPad setting?
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Steve Garris on May 24, 2019, 05:41:59 pm
Not working for me. I have the giant buttons showing. Tried every imaginable "pinching" but nothing changes. Is there an iPad setting?

Found it! Gestures in settings must be on.

Thank You!!!!!!
Title: Re: Luminaire - can't do 2 universes?
Post by: Dave Garoutte on May 25, 2019, 03:08:00 pm
Swerve alert!
One other thing i like about Luminar is you can apply any image to a button.
You can take an actual picture of the stage lit with your scene and apply it.
I took a pic of a sign I made that said DON'T EDIT and applied it to the Setup and Pre-show scenes for a client. 
The ever-changing FOH folks would keep unlocking the scenes and messing with them.