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Church and H.O.W. – Forums for HOW Sound and AV - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Church and HOW Forums => Church Sound => Topic started by: David Pedd on May 13, 2019, 10:28:01 am

Title: I'm Venting
Post by: David Pedd on May 13, 2019, 10:28:01 am
OK, so I confess up front that I'm posting here to blow off some steam.

Some background first.  We attend a small church.  The building was probably based on a home plan.  The auditorium seats, at max, maybe 110.  The ceiling is peaked inside, with, I'm estimating, about 15 ft. to the top.  Not too high, and lower when you're on the platform with is raised about 15 inches.

A couple of years ago we got rid of the old Radio Shack speakers hanging in the front off the ceiling and replaced them with 6, 70v ceiling speakers.  These run 3 on a side, starting about 10 feet from the pulpit.  Since the room is so small, we don't need that much sound reinforcement, and this works.

We've EQ'd the house and floor monitors with an external EQ.  W use a small analog 12 channel audio mixer.  Everything works pretty well for what we need.

So yesterday I arrive.  I missed Sunday School and arrive before the morning service.  The pastor sees me and asks to speak to me (that's unusual).  He takes me to the front and tells me that he's installed 2 new ceiling speakers.  RIGHT OVER THE PLATFORM!!!

I asked WHY?  Answer:  I had these left over from when we installed the other 6.  I looked in amazement and he said they had issues during Sunday School.  (Ya think?!?)  I said, "Yeah, FEEDBACK".  Right.  So he says, "I just wanted you to know so you can deal with it."  DEAL WITH IT??

So the service starts in 5 minutes and the song leader grabs a Shure wireless handheld, turns it on and SQUEEEEL!.  Oh my soul!  (Realize that the new speakers are no more than 5 feet above his head, depending on where he's standing, pointing down at the top of his mic)

I mess with the channel EQ and maybe it helps a little.  Then.....during the offertory special, a group of 5 come up an open 5 mics!!!  I pull my Glock and think to end my life right then and there.

Amazingly, the pastor's lav gives little trouble.  Some, but not much.

Well, I'm steamed by the time we're done.  He'll either disconnect those new speakers or we've got major problems.

What's the moral of my story?  I have no idea.  Keep the pastor from doing stupid things?

Oh, I didn't mention how this affected overall house sound.  Do I really need ot mention that?
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: David Allred on May 13, 2019, 10:35:57 am
Do the speakers have "tappable" transformers?  You could tap them down to a whisper.  Or snip.
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: David Pedd on May 13, 2019, 10:45:37 am
Do the speakers have "tappable" transformers?  You could tap them down to a whisper.  Or snip.

That's a good question and one I thought about later.  Of course, I'm not speaking to this man right now.  When I cool down I'll ask, but that's not a solution.

If we EQ just for those speakers, we'll affect all the house sound and the sound on our stream.

A shotgun could be a fix, eh?
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: John L Nobile on May 13, 2019, 10:50:21 am
Simple solution. Turn off the new speakers. You've mentioned guns twice. I don't think that's the right solution. Unless you're doing an impulse response analysis.
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: brian maddox on May 13, 2019, 10:54:07 am
Simple solution. Turn off the new speakers. You've mentioned guns twice. I don't think that's the right solution. Unless you're doing an impulse response analysis.

i need the LOL emoji.  'cause i just did....
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: Keith Broughton on May 13, 2019, 11:02:56 am
Explain to the Pastor that installing those speakers was a bad decision and get out your wire cutters.
The 9mm solution creates more problems and is messy ;D
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: David Pedd on May 13, 2019, 12:14:37 pm
You've mentioned guns twice. I don't think that's the right solution. Unless you're doing an impulse response analysis.

LOL!
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: David Pedd on May 13, 2019, 12:15:18 pm
The 9mm solution creates more problems and is messy ;D

9mm is for wimps, bro.  LOL!
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: Johannes Halvorsen on May 13, 2019, 12:17:45 pm
Try a shotgun mic. ;)
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: David Pedd on May 13, 2019, 12:20:43 pm
Try a shotgun mic. ;)

Luv it!!!
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on May 13, 2019, 02:17:28 pm
The 9mm solution creates more problems and is messy ;D

I dunno. A skylight over the platform would create a nice "heavenly glow" about the pastor.

Seriously, though, after you calm down, gently explain to the pastor that those additional speakers are causing a problem that can most easily be resolved by removing them. They perform no function that the stage monitors don't already provide.
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: Keith Broughton on May 13, 2019, 02:40:13 pm
Try a shotgun mic. ;)
Well done, Sir ;D
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: Erik Jerde on May 13, 2019, 02:44:44 pm
Proving once again that just because someone owns a home stereo doesn’t mean they know anything about sound.
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: David Winners on May 13, 2019, 03:53:55 pm
OK, so I confess up front that I'm posting here to blow off some steam.

Some background first.  We attend a small church.  The building was probably based on a home plan.  The auditorium seats, at max, maybe 110.  The ceiling is peaked inside, with, I'm estimating, about 15 ft. to the top.  Not too high, and lower when you're on the platform with is raised about 15 inches.

A couple of years ago we got rid of the old Radio Shack speakers hanging in the front off the ceiling and replaced them with 6, 70v ceiling speakers.  These run 3 on a side, starting about 10 feet from the pulpit.  Since the room is so small, we don't need that much sound reinforcement, and this works.

We've EQ'd the house and floor monitors with an external EQ.  W use a small analog 12 channel audio mixer.  Everything works pretty well for what we need.

So yesterday I arrive.  I missed Sunday School and arrive before the morning service.  The pastor sees me and asks to speak to me (that's unusual).  He takes me to the front and tells me that he's installed 2 new ceiling speakers.  RIGHT OVER THE PLATFORM!!!

I asked WHY?  Answer:  I had these left over from when we installed the other 6.  I looked in amazement and he said they had issues during Sunday School.  (Ya think?!?)  I said, "Yeah, FEEDBACK".  Right.  So he says, "I just wanted you to know so you can deal with it."  DEAL WITH IT??

So the service starts in 5 minutes and the song leader grabs a Shure wireless handheld, turns it on and SQUEEEEL!.  Oh my soul!  (Realize that the new speakers are no more than 5 feet above his head, depending on where he's standing, pointing down at the top of his mic)

I mess with the channel EQ and maybe it helps a little.  Then.....during the offertory special, a group of 5 come up an open 5 mics!!!  I pull my Glock and think to end my life right then and there.

Amazingly, the pastor's lav gives little trouble.  Some, but not much.

Well, I'm steamed by the time we're done.  He'll either disconnect those new speakers or we've got major problems.

What's the moral of my story?  I have no idea.  Keep the pastor from doing stupid things?

Oh, I didn't mention how this affected overall house sound.  Do I really need ot mention that?

Frankly, your attitude sucks. Talking about pulling weapons in a church. Making jokes about suicide. I think they have the wrong guy on the job, and I think you should consider how your off hand comments about such a serious problem like suicide may effect others.

I've personally lost 9 friends to suicide. Do you find that humorous?
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: David Pedd on May 13, 2019, 06:10:31 pm
Frankly, your attitude sucks. Talking about pulling weapons in a church. Making jokes about suicide. I think they have the wrong guy on the job, and I think you should consider how your off hand comments about such a serious problem like suicide may effect others.

I've personally lost 9 friends to suicide. Do you find that humorous?

Lighten up.  It's all in humor.  Seek help if you need it. 

Boy, you got that right.  I'm certainly the wrong man for the job...just that no one else will take it.

Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: David Winners on May 13, 2019, 09:26:14 pm
Lighten up.  It's all in humor.  Seek help if you need it. 

Boy, you got that right.  I'm certainly the wrong man for the job...just that no one else will take it.

I apologize if my taking offence to your sense of humor seems trivial.

13 paragraphs whining about a problem that can be fixed with a 5 minute conversation, a ladder and a screwdriver seems trivial to me.

I guess perspective is everything.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: Scott Holtzman on May 13, 2019, 09:53:21 pm
Lighten up.  It's all in humor.  Seek help if you need it. 

Boy, you got that right.  I'm certainly the wrong man for the job...just that no one else will take it.

Yeah I am with Ethan.  Why would you be so mad you can't talk to the guy.  Major attitude and anger issues.  You should have explained to him why this was a bad idea as you were going to get a ladder to disconnect them. Problem solved. 

Life is too short to create stress.
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on May 13, 2019, 11:28:30 pm
If these ceiling speakers have a metal grill you can take a piece of magnetic sign material and cut it to the shape of the grill. Then just place it over the grill. This will mute the speaker enough to make the problem go away and if he needs it to be used at other times just take the cover off of it. I used to do a lot of corporate work where the breakout rooms many times had ceiling speakers right above where the stage got placed. This covering of the speakers came in real handy. If using the magnetic covers I would borrow the pole that they used to change lightbulbs and I would place the magnetic cover over the top of this rig and place the cover over the speaker grill and at the end I would knock it off with the same pole.

Before I started using the magnetic cover trick I was working an event at WDW and taped over (with quality white gaffers tape) some speakers that were above the stage area. I forgot to take the tape off after the event. Those speakers stayed covered with that tape for about 3 year and then one time after that when I was working there it was gone.
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: David Pedd on May 14, 2019, 01:12:36 am
If these ceiling speakers have a metal grill you can take a piece of magnetic sign material and cut it to the shape of the grill. Then just place it over the grill. This will mute the speaker enough to make the problem go away and if he needs it to be used at other times just take the cover off of it. I used to do a lot of corporate work where the breakout rooms many times had ceiling speakers right above where the stage got placed. This covering of the speakers came in real handy. If using the magnetic covers I would borrow the pole that they used to change lightbulbs and I would place the magnetic cover over the top of this rig and place the cover over the speaker grill and at the end I would knock it off with the same pole.

Before I started using the magnetic cover trick I was working an event at WDW and taped over (with quality white gaffers tape) some speakers that were above the stage area. I forgot to take the tape off after the event. Those speakers stayed covered with that tape for about 3 year and then one time after that when I was working there it was gone.

That's an interesting idea.  Thanks.
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on May 14, 2019, 12:46:12 pm
Yeah I am with Ethan.  Why would you be so mad you can't talk to the guy.  Major attitude and anger issues.  You should have explained to him why this was a bad idea as you were going to get a ladder to disconnect them. Problem solved. 

Life is too short to create stress.

Which problem?  The technical one with the speakers yes, but what about the lack of communication?  What about the failure to check things before a service?

Our pastor recently made the statement that what guys need most is respect.  In this case, David felt the pastor did not respect him because he (no doubt out of honest ignorance) made a major mistake while trying to help.  I get that feeling-felt that way during a recent youth conference at our church- high stress lots going on with media, lighting, etc. then the faders on the BGM during a game started moving on their own.  Took me a second to realize pastor was second guessing me (I had just started to try and duck an unfamiliar track to the MC-literally under 10 seconds in) and running faders with his phone.  He later apologized for several things that happened-but pastors are human.  The key is to understand whats happening.

Speaking of respect-just curious-was the OP respectful enough to tell the pastor he would not be there during Sunday School?  I hope so-even though these positions are typically volunteer, the job is still important and should be taken just as seriously as any day job.

I agree, anger fixes nothing.  Sometimes you just have to learn to laugh at how preposterous the situation is-although there have been times when I have looked at the master power switch and maybe even started reaching for it....
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: David Pedd on May 14, 2019, 12:53:40 pm
Which problem?  The technical one with the speakers yes, but what about the lack of communication?  What about the failure to check things before a service?

Our pastor recently made the statement that what guys need most is respect.  In this case, David felt the pastor did not respect him because he (no doubt out of honest ignorance) made a major mistake while trying to help.  I get that feeling-felt that way during a recent youth conference at our church- high stress lots going on with media, lighting, etc. then the faders on the BGM during a game started moving on their own.  Took me a second to realize pastor was second guessing me (I had just started to try and duck an unfamiliar track to the MC-literally under 10 seconds in) and running faders with his phone.  He later apologized for several things that happened-but pastors are human.  The key is to understand whats happening.

Speaking of respect-just curious-was the OP respectful enough to tell the pastor he would not be there during Sunday School?  I hope so-even though these positions are typically volunteer, the job is still important and should be taken just as seriously as any day job.

I agree, anger fixes nothing.  Sometimes you just have to learn to laugh at how preposterous the situation is-although there have been times when I have looked at the master power switch and maybe even started reaching for it....

We are usually never there for SS.  Someone else starts everything and sets it up for SS.  And where did I say I never check things before a service?

Good tips on here.  Much appreciated.

Interesting comments as well.  I'll try and post what happens with this situation.
Title: Re: I'm Venting
Post by: David Pedd on May 19, 2019, 11:07:01 pm
The drama is over.

The pastor repented in sackcloth and ashes.

Naw, not that dramatic.  He asked how best to fix the problem.

"Disconnect them"  He didn't like the answer.  He disconnected them.  Problem solved.

Now that he's talked to me about what he wants, we are working (together) on a viable solution.