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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Pro AV Forum => Topic started by: This forum sucks on May 05, 2019, 06:35:18 pm

Title: crown amp question
Post by: This forum sucks on May 05, 2019, 06:35:18 pm
i want to use my crown microtech 1200 in bridge mode to power a meyer 650 r2 which is biamp. (4 pole speakon) connector.   my cable im thinking about getting would have two banana plugs on one end and the male speakon 4 pole on the other end.   

question.    On the crown amp you plug the first banana plug in for bridge .  do i stack the other banana plug on top of the other one?? 
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 05, 2019, 08:24:57 pm
i want to use my crown microtech 1200 in bridge mode to power a meyer 650 r2 which is biamp. (4 pole speakon) connector.   my cable im thinking about getting would have two banana plugs on one end and the male speakon 4 pole on the other end.   

question.    On the crown amp you plug the first banana plug in for bridge .  do i stack the other banana plug on top of the other one??

You can't use a bridged amplifier for a bi-amped speaker.  I think you do not understand what "bi-amped" means.
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: This forum sucks on May 05, 2019, 08:41:00 pm
can you tell why you cant?  i would have power going to 1plus and 1neg and 2 plus and 2 neg. Wouldn't  the bridge amp would send out 970 watt at 8 ohms to each speaker
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 05, 2019, 09:17:03 pm
can you tell why you cant?  i would have power going to 1plus and 1neg and 2 plus and 2 neg. Wouldn't  the bridge amp would send out 970 watt at 8 ohms to each speaker
The term "biamp" usually refers to a speaker where different pass bands are driven by different amplifiers, like low on one amp, highs on another, with an electronic crossover or processor ahead of the amp to divide and control the signal.

Your 650 R2 subs have only 1 pass band, sub lows. If they are wired to both channels of the NL4 or EP4 you would wire the 2 circuits in parallel, 1+ and 2+ on the plus terminal of the amp, and 1- and 2- on the minus terminal. You could do this by stacking banana plugs. Since your Crown Macro Tech 1200 is rated at 495W into 4Ω, and the 650 R2 is rated for an amp of 400W into 4Ω there is no reason to bridge the amp. Use 1 amp, with 1 speaker per channel. The amp specs do not mention using them briged into 4Ω.

Mac
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: Ray Aberle on May 05, 2019, 09:22:37 pm
can you tell why you cant?  i would have power going to 1plus and 1neg and 2 plus and 2 neg. Wouldn't  the bridge amp would send out 970 watt at 8 ohms to each speaker
Well, if you would like to learn from "Ye Olde School of Hard Knocks," hook it up and see what happens.

[pedantic: the cable has a *female* connector on it, not a *male* connector.]

[Mac's explaining things better so I'm gonna leave it alone. heh.]
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: This forum sucks on May 05, 2019, 09:33:05 pm
The term "biamp" usually refers to a speaker where different pass bands are driven by different amplifiers, like low on one amp, highs on another, with an electronic crossover or processor ahead of the amp to divide and control the signal.

Your 650 R2 subs have only 1 pass band, sub lows. If they are wired to both channels of the NL4 or EP4 you would wire the 2 circuits in parallel, 1+ and 2+ on the plus terminal of the amp, and 1- and 2- on the minus terminal. You could do this by stacking banana plugs. Since your Crown Macro Tech 1200 is rated at 495W into 4Ω, and the 650 R2 is rated for an amp of 400W into 4Ω there is no reason to bridge the amp. Use 1 amp, with 1 speaker per channel. The amp specs do not mention using them briged into 4Ω.

Mac

reason i was trying to bridge it, is because, i was trying to use the meyer processor for two subs.  using a y cable out of the output. one to one 650 one to the other 650.   sounds like i can only use i meyer processor per sub now. because out the y cable to stereo input of the crown.  then each side out to a 650.   is that right? thanks
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 05, 2019, 10:08:15 pm
reason i was trying to bridge it, is because, i was trying to use the meyer processor for two subs.  using a y cable out of the output. one to one 650 one to the other 650.   sounds like i can only use i meyer processor per sub now. because out the y cable to stereo input of the crown.  then each side out to a 650.   is that right? thanks

No. You only need 1 B1 processor for all the 650 subs you can gather. It is still a single channel of signal going to many speakers. If all the amplification is the same, including the same gain, a single channel of processing and its included sense input is all you need.

Mac
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: This forum sucks on May 05, 2019, 10:19:43 pm
No. You only need 1 B1 processor for all the 650 subs you can gather. It is still a single channel of signal going to many speakers. If all the amplification is the same, including the same gain, a single channel of processing and its included sense input is all you need.

Mac
well that good.  would you mind telling me the signal flow. and what cables to use.   so far i know that from my crossover out mono to b2 processor,  then y cable out to the amps. this is where its confusing.  because if i just go into the right side of the crown microtech 1200 then it just comes out right side of amp.  thats why i thought to use bridge, stacking the banana plugs
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 05, 2019, 10:58:43 pm
well that good.  would you mind telling me the signal flow. and what cables to use.   so far i know that from my crossover out mono to b2 processor,  then y cable out to the amps. this is where its confusing.  because if i just go into the right side of the crown microtech 1200 then it just comes out right side of amp.  thats why i thought to use bridge, stacking the banana plugs

Seriously. Read a book. Setting up sound systems is not difficult, but neither is ti easy. You need to get a broader sense of what you are doing before you ask other people to help you. You seem to be stumbling around in the woods without a clue and asking the members of these forums to hold your hand through every little step.

Since I expect you want to know where to get such a book, try HERE (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=The+Sound+Reinforcement+Handbook+2nd+Edition&ref=nb_sb_noss)

Mac
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: Scott Holtzman on May 05, 2019, 11:11:23 pm
reason i was trying to bridge it, is because, i was trying to use the meyer processor for two subs.  using a y cable out of the output. one to one 650 one to the other 650.   sounds like i can only use i meyer processor per sub now. because out the y cable to stereo input of the crown.  then each side out to a 650.   is that right? thanks

Even after talking to you and making drawing you are still struggling with this.  The processor is on the input, it has nothing to do with being bridged.  You can run as many amps as you like off the processor.

When you bridge an amp you combine the output of the two channels (you only feed one input when bridging) into a single output (the + of each side, see manual as doing this wrong can damage amp).

As per our previous discussion, bridging with this amp is not a solution since you would have a 4 ohm load with the two MS-18 (8 ohm) drivers that are in the 650R2 in parallel.  The amp is really too small, you won't have any headroom if you run one cabinet in 4 ohm mode (drivers in parallel) per channel or run one channel to each driver in the cabinet (one amp per cabinet).

You also need to make sure you understand the sense circuit and properly gain staging the processors.  The sensitivity switch is on bottom of the PIP card slot on the amp, you have to take it out to get to it.

Have you read the Meyer manuals and the Crown manual?

You know Jody some folks just aren't technically minded.  You may be an ideal candidate for powered subs where all this is taken care of for you.   The Meyer 650P is same sub powered.  If you have the original MS-18 drivers in your cabinet, not MS-18 frames reconed with EV kits as many on the market are, you could sell your 650R2's and amps and have powered subs to match the MSL-4's.  I think that would make your life a lot easier. 
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: This forum sucks on May 05, 2019, 11:49:01 pm
Even after talking to you and making drawing you are still struggling with this.  The processor is on the input, it has nothing to do with being bridged.  You can run as many amps as you like off the processor.

When you bridge an amp you combine the output of the two channels (you only feed one input when bridging) into a single output (the + of each side, see manual as doing this wrong can damage amp).

As per our previous discussion, bridging with this amp is not a solution since you would have a 4 ohm load with the two MS-18 (8 ohm) drivers that are in the 650R2 in parallel.  The amp is really too small, you won't have any headroom if you run one cabinet in 4 ohm mode (drivers in parallel) per channel or run one channel to each driver in the cabinet (one amp per cabinet).

You also need to make sure you understand the sense circuit and properly gain staging the processors.  The sensitivity switch is on bottom of the PIP card slot on the amp, you have to take it out to get to it.

Have you read the Meyer manuals and the Crown manual?

You know Jody some folks just aren't technically minded.  You may be an ideal candidate for powered subs where all this is taken care of for you.   The Meyer 650P is same sub powered.  If you have the original MS-18 drivers in your cabinet, not MS-18 frames reconed with EV kits as many on the market are, you could sell your 650R2's and amps and have powered subs to match the MSL-4's.  I think that would make your life a lot easier.

Lol, i don't think im getting my point across.   im just trying understand how you link all them together.  meyer manual doesn't say how or anywhere online,  if i saw a pic, and saw what kind of cables and connections. i could do it. no problem.  not rocket science for sure.  here a drawing of my signal flow.
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: Scott Holtzman on May 06, 2019, 12:19:30 am
Lol, i don't think im getting my point across.   im just trying understand how you link all them together.  meyer manual doesn't say how or anywhere online,  if i saw a pic, and saw what kind of cables and connections. i could do it. no problem.  not rocket science for sure.  here a drawing of my signal flow.

What do you mean the Meyer manual doesn't have any instructions?   It is very detailed in how to set gain on your amp and what connections to make.

Where are you confused?  I thought you understood when we spoke.

Your drawing is exactly correct. 

Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: This forum sucks on May 06, 2019, 12:28:29 am
What do you mean the Meyer manual doesn't have any instructions?   It is very detailed in how to set gain on your amp and what connections to make.

Where are you confused?  I thought you understood when we spoke.

Your drawing is exactly correct.
they just show one processor to the 650, not multiple 650.  what confused me was.  the y cable, because one goes to one crown , the other to the other crown .  so you have to put one in the input of the crown.  if you do that then it only comes out one side of the output on amp right?  and i need to use both sides of the amp to feed the 650
Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: Scott Holtzman on May 06, 2019, 01:16:06 am
they just show one processor to the 650, not multiple 650.  what confused me was.  the y cable, because one goes to one crown , the other to the other crown .  so you have to put one in the input of the crown.  if you do that then it only comes out one side of the output on amp right?  and i need to use both sides of the amp to feed the 650

That's what the parallel input switch is for on the crown, or use another Y cable.  Whatever floats your boat.

Did you read the manual on the Crown?  Don't get bogged down by the drawing that shows the "double current" mode on the outputs, just use the parallel switch (which the manual indicates ties the inputs together) and hook 1+/1- to channel 1 and 2+/2- to channel two and call it a day.

Title: Re: crown amp question
Post by: This forum sucks on May 06, 2019, 01:42:18 pm
That's what the parallel input switch is for on the crown, or use another Y cable.  Whatever floats your boat.

Did you read the manual on the Crown?  Don't get bogged down by the drawing that shows the "double current" mode on the outputs, just use the parallel switch (which the manual indicates ties the inputs together) and hook 1+/1- to channel 1 and 2+/2- to channel two and call it a day.

Ok. Thanks Scott !