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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Wireless and Communications => Topic started by: Ike Zimbel on April 19, 2019, 10:53:13 am

Title: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Ike Zimbel on April 19, 2019, 10:53:13 am
Hi All,
I'd really like to hear from anyone who lives/works in US cities that have completed the re-pack. I'm on a tour that will be passing through Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, NYC and most of the other big cities, starting around mid-June.
From the re-pack charts, those cities are going to be really rough, but I'd love any first hand experience to see how bad it really it is.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Henry Cohen on April 19, 2019, 12:36:42 pm
I'd really like to hear from anyone who lives/works in US cities that have completed the re-pack. I'm on a tour that will be passing through Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, NYC and most of the other big cities, starting around mid-June.
From the re-pack charts, those cities are going to be really rough, but I'd love any first hand experience to see how bad it really it is.

In a broad view, for any tour this year, you still have access to all the non T-mobile 600MHz spectrum not otherwise occupied by broadcast operations, or other carriers if any of them suddenly light up (which is most unlikely).
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Pete Erskine on April 19, 2019, 01:30:02 pm
In a broad view, for any tour this year, you still have access to all the non T-mobile 600MHz spectrum not otherwise occupied by broadcast operations, or other carriers if any of them suddenly light up (which is most unlikely).

ANOTHER REASON TO ALWAYS DO A SCAN WHEN IN A NEW CITY...
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Loren Miller on April 19, 2019, 04:04:33 pm
ANOTHER REASON TO ALWAYS DO A SCAN WHEN IN A NEW CITY...

Was literally smacked around by a repack on Saturday, sound checked and scanned clear on Friday then on Sat a TV station moved to my neck of the woods and totally smashed me, took me a minute to figure it out and had to do the run of shame, that was on me.

If you are on a big tour I'm shure you all ready have this info, but I would check this page for every city I'm in to see if there is a repack still pending https://www.fcc.gov/TVrescan

Good Luck and enjoy the gig!
Loren
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Eric Snodgrass on April 19, 2019, 08:46:20 pm
This is something I posted in the T-Mobile 600MHz sticky thread -

On Friday April 12th I worked two different events in the Los Angeles area.  On the corporate one during the day their wireless Telex com system was taking hits, even though it was working the day before.  Yes, it was in the 600MHz range and the production knew that it would eventually be illegal.
Then that same night as I was working as a local A2 for a first national Broadway tour they experienced transmit/receive problems with at least 5 packs, all in the 500MHz range.  Those packs had been working fine for the prior 17 days of their sitdown in Los Angeles.
The next morning I had to rescan my television because a few channels had moved.
I think I experienced the T-Mobile deployment in one day.  The Broadway tour has their wireless racks hooked up via Wi-Fi to the vendor's server and receives updated scans of the area, but the deployment and channel move happened quicker than the vendor could update the channel frequency scans.
So when the map says that T-Mobile is deploying on a certain date, believe it. 
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Loren Miller on April 19, 2019, 09:39:35 pm
This is something I posted in the T-Mobile 600MHz sticky thread -

On Friday April 12th I worked two different events in the Los Angeles area.  On the corporate one during the day their wireless Telex com system was taking hits, even though it was working the day before.  Yes, it was in the 600MHz range and the production knew that it would eventually be illegal.
Then that same night as I was working as a local A2 for a first national Broadway tour they experienced transmit/receive problems with at least 5 packs, all in the 500MHz range.  Those packs had been working fine for the prior 17 days of their sitdown in Los Angeles.
The next morning I had to rescan my television because a few channels had moved.
I think I experienced the T-Mobile deployment in one day.  The Broadway tour has their wireless racks hooked up via Wi-Fi to the vendor's server and receives updated scans of the area, but the deployment and channel move happened quicker than the vendor could update the channel frequency scans.
So when the map says that T-Mobile is deploying on a certain date, believe it.

It was a fun weekend!!! But that challenge is one of the things I love about this, keeps us sharp and on our toes!
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Dan Currie on April 20, 2019, 03:21:55 am
Do you have pre and post repack scans?  I'd be interested in taking a look and curious if the repack is complete.


Was literally smacked around by a repack on Saturday, sound checked and scanned clear on Friday then on Sat a TV station moved to my neck of the woods and totally smashed me, took me a minute to figure it out and had to do the run of shame, that was on me.

If you are on a big tour I'm shure you all ready have this info, but I would check this page for every city I'm in to see if there is a repack still pending https://www.fcc.gov/TVrescan

Good Luck and enjoy the gig!
Loren
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Pete Erskine on April 20, 2019, 03:25:33 pm
Do you have pre and post repack scans?  I'd be interested in taking a look and curious if the repack is complete.

you can get old and new scans at bestaudio.com
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Dan Currie on April 20, 2019, 04:56:54 pm
The newest LA scan is from January.

I have yet to see anything from Tmobile etc... above 616mhz

I'm in Miami tomorrow.  Fingers crossed it has more white space than the last time I was there.

you can get old and new scans at bestaudio.com
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: John Sulek on April 22, 2019, 11:41:21 am
Hi All,
I'd really like to hear from anyone who lives/works in US cities that have completed the re-pack. I'm on a tour that will be passing through Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, NYC and most of the other big cities, starting around mid-June.
From the re-pack charts, those cities are going to be really rough, but I'd love any first hand experience to see how bad it really it is.
Thanks!

I might be just ahead of you in a few of those cities. Atlanta for sure as that is first week of June.
I'll send you a scan and post it on the best audio site.
Safe travels!
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Jonathan Novick on April 23, 2019, 09:09:28 pm
Ike, we had a T-Mobile guy come by our booth at NAB. He told us that about a week earlier they had turned on 100 new sites in a single day! The times are a changing. You should talk to Jackie about getting our system on your tour.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Mac Kerr on April 23, 2019, 09:23:53 pm
You should talk to Jackie about getting our system on your tour.

It's pretty cool.

Mac
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on April 24, 2019, 09:24:59 am
Ike, we had a T-Mobile guy come by our booth at NAB. He told us that about a week earlier they had turned on 100 new sites in a single day! The times are a changing. You should talk to Jackie about getting our system on your tour.

What are you referring to when you say "You should talk to Jackie about getting our system on your tour"? For those of us that aren't in the know.

I thought if someone was with a a manufaturer that that was supposed to be made clear in their posts.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Henry Cohen on April 24, 2019, 10:20:45 am
What are you referring to when you say "You should talk to Jackie about getting our system on your tour"? For those of us that aren't in the know.

I thought if someone was with a a manufaturer that that was supposed to be made clear in their posts.

You are correct Kevin. A PM was sent to Jonathan regarding this.

Jonathan works for Alteros (https://www.alteros.tech/), a subsidiary of Audio-Technica. (A minor irony is that Ike is the Canadian rep for Alteros, as noted in his signature.)
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Ike Zimbel on April 24, 2019, 11:11:41 am
You are correct Kevin. A PM was sent to Jonathan regarding this.

Jonathan works for Alteros (https://www.alteros.tech/), a subsidiary of Audio-Technica. (A minor irony is that Ike is the Canadian rep for Alteros, as noted in his signature.)
;D ;D ;D...and yes, it has crossed my mind...
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on April 24, 2019, 12:55:46 pm
I helped with a boardroom (Board of Education) install with 22 wireless mics recently and Shure gave the sound company a frequency coordination for this location. When I looked at it I noticed that the on air frequencies that they gave us didn’t match with what I had for that location. I called them and talked to them about it at the time and discovered that they did it using the TV station repack frequencies. I don’t think that the present on air frequencies were in this coordination. So I used their WWB show file and added the other frequencies and there were still no conflicts. So all was good.

I was just yesterday talking to someone about the repack and said I need to get in touch with Shure and see if they offer that Database (with the repack in it) for WWB. I would like to take the repack into consideration in the interim and check out a location with the existing on air frequencies and the future frequencies just in case some of the transition happens while in the process of a multi week show. I did get some information from them while talking to them about this install. They ran down a list of some of the changes and the one thing that stuck out in my mind was there were 2 different stations that are already in the 500 mhz range that are going to be swapping frequencies with each other. That just seemed funny to me.

Where I am located and do most of my work now a days it looks like there is no T-Mobile 600mhz scheduled to come on the air at all that is near enough to me to affect me. It is the repack that will affect me, not that I am planning on pushing my luck and using anything it the 600mhz prohibited space.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Jonathan Novick on April 26, 2019, 12:12:13 am
What are you referring to when you say "You should talk to Jackie about getting our system on your tour"? For those of us that aren't in the know.

I thought if someone was with a a manufaturer that that was supposed to be made clear in their posts.
I have updated my profile so it should show the correct info now. Please forgive the transgression. I joined the forum many many years ago and updating my profile didn't even cross my mind. I only joined Alteros about 2 months ago. Maybe I should update that 10+ year old pic too.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Matt Steuart on May 07, 2019, 08:37:01 am
Hi All,
I'd really like to hear from anyone who lives/works in US cities that have completed the re-pack. I'm on a tour that will be passing through Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, NYC and most of the other big cities, starting around mid-June.
From the re-pack charts, those cities are going to be really rough, but I'd love any first hand experience to see how bad it really it is.
Thanks!


Here's an outdoor scan from Dallas, TX taken in mid January of this year.  I will have some data from NY and Houston soon as well if you're interested.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Scott Helmke on May 07, 2019, 08:55:40 am

Here's an outdoor scan from Dallas, TX taken in mid January of this year.  I will have some data from NY and Houston soon as well if you're interested.

That doesn't look like a post-repack skyline, though. Still has big TV-station blocks sitting neatly on the 6MHz lines.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Pasi Manninen on May 07, 2019, 04:06:33 pm
Hi, You can find more scan files on https://taajuus.info/scan-database/   
There is  at least one  quite recent scan from LA area (The Echo, 2019-03-23): https://taajuus.info/scan-database/ViewScan/217
You can download files in either WWB / IAS  or WSM compatible format.

Everybody is  more that welcome to share some more scan files! The site will even parse zip-packed TTi-scans without manual editing.



The newest LA scan is from January.

I have yet to see anything from Tmobile etc... above 616mhz

I'm in Miami tomorrow.  Fingers crossed it has more white space than the last time I was there.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Ike Zimbel on May 08, 2019, 06:52:08 am

Here's an outdoor scan from Dallas, TX taken in mid January of this year.  I will have some data from NY and Houston soon as well if you're interested.
Thanks! I will be there in June.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Matt Steuart on May 08, 2019, 09:50:30 am
That doesn't look like a post-repack skyline, though. Still has big TV-station blocks sitting neatly on the 6MHz lines.

True, it doesn't.  But thats a scan taken from a 5 week run in Dallas, (actually.. it was closer to Grand Prairie right beside Dallas)  January 2019.

 It is entirely possible that the spectrum looks completely different now as those TV stations move down below 608.   





Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: John Sulek on June 12, 2019, 10:42:52 am
True, it doesn't.  But thats a scan taken from a 5 week run in Dallas, (actually.. it was closer to Grand Prairie right beside Dallas)  January 2019.

 It is entirely possible that the spectrum looks completely different now as those TV stations move down below 608.   

I'm in Dallas this week. Atlanta at the Cellairis Amphitheater is uploaded to IAS.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Tim Hite on June 13, 2019, 06:58:25 pm
Many location sound folks in Los Angeles are very unhappy these days. They are going back to wired booms, it seems.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: John Sulek on June 14, 2019, 12:12:33 pm
Houston TX out at the Woodlands.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: John Sulek on June 17, 2019, 03:59:26 pm
Dallas TX at the Dos Equis Pavilion from this past weekend.
You can use ch 18 and 20 but the noise floor is a bit high. Good for tech mixes close to the tx antenna.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Scott Helmke on June 17, 2019, 04:59:10 pm
Dallas TX at the Dos Equis Pavilion from this past weekend.
You can use ch 18 and 20 but the noise floor is a bit high. Good for tech mixes close to the tx antenna.

Again, I'm not seeing anything that looks like "post repack" in these scans. 
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: John Sulek on June 17, 2019, 07:22:10 pm
Again, I'm not seeing anything that looks like "post repack" in these scans.

Agreed. I've been surprised at the open space in some of these venues in cities where the re pack is underway.
We'll see in Phoenix where the re pack is done. I remember it being pretty tight there a few months back
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Jordan Wolf on June 20, 2019, 09:36:32 pm
Again, I'm not seeing anything that looks like "post repack" in these scans.
I did some scans back in May in Philadelphia, PA and am planning to do some more in August/September (that's the end of the scheduled cutover timeframe for the next phase in our area). I'll see if there's any difference and post them - they might not be as full-spectrum as many would like as my analyzer needs repair, but it might give up some info :-/
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Don Boomer on June 21, 2019, 11:40:54 am
If you are looking for current real time scans from all over the world go here and sign up.

https://www.rfvenue.com/wavetower

This will give you a free Wavetower account from which you can view all the “public” towers out in the world.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Tim Hite on June 21, 2019, 07:04:17 pm
Just FYI, that video does not display correctly in either Safari or Firefox 67.0.3. Something is off on the resizing.

If you are looking for current real time scans from all over the world go here and sign up.

https://www.rfvenue.com/wavetower

This will give you a free Wavetower account from which you can view all the “public” towers out in the world.
Title: Re: Post Repack experiences?
Post by: Pasi Manninen on September 21, 2019, 03:19:34 pm
Again, I'm not seeing anything that looks like "post repack" in these scans.

For the sake of example, I made a small study based on some online spectum data which is reasonably recent.
Screen Capture from this thread: Dos Equis Pavilion , John Sulek 2019-06-15
WWB capture, green: Dos Equis Pavilion, 2019-08-31 Scanned by Mr C, AXT600 spectrum manager,  https://taajuus.info/scan-database/ViewScan/279

Red exclusions from the WWB database with default settings using postal code 75201
Cross reference the rabbit ears database for this location at: https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=13484

When comparing "real world online data" and TV-database data one can  see that the real world scan  data  has been changed between the dates.
Current scan  differs from the  keybridge database, so WWB's  database  cannot  fully  be trusted. It is  mandatory to perform a scan on the actual site!

You can find more scans around the world from the website https://taajuus.info/  ( or http://rfscans.com ) - do feel free to contribute!