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Title: mike for tap dancers?
Post by: Kevin Conlon on March 16, 2019, 03:48:51 pm
The powers that be, and the dancers in next weeks show want the dancers taps in the pa. It is going on during a rockish song with the whole band. I have thought about lapels on the legs of the girls. A boundry mike is around, but only one and will pick up the monitors even below the drum riser i think and the girls move around a bunch so one probably won't cut it. Anyone with suggestion would be nice to hear from.
Title: Re: mike for tap dancers?
Post by: Riley Casey on March 16, 2019, 04:30:57 pm
Acts like Riverdance use cardiod lavs wye'd together into a wireless belt pack.  This version requires a belt pack on every dancer and Riverdance only mics the leads.  The "chorus " dancers are simply track playback.  Crown PCCs work for fairly low volume stages, shotguns work a bit better for louder stages but they won't compete with a loud rock band if the dancers are the featured sound.  This of course is for Irish step dancers who are usually much louder than traditional tap dances to begin with.
Title: Re: mike for tap dancers?
Post by: Kevin Conlon on March 16, 2019, 04:47:51 pm
Acts like Riverdance use cardiod lavs wye'd together into a wireless belt pack.  This version requires a belt pack on every dancer and Riverdance only mics the leads.  The "chorus " dancers are simply track playback.  Crown PCCs work for fairly low volume stages, shotguns work a bit better for louder stages but they won't compete with a loud rock band if the dancers are the featured sound.  This of course is for Irish step dancers who are usually much louder than traditional tap dances to begin with.
One on each leg then. I can do that for three of the four and it should be fine enough. The band is all on iem and stage volume is main monitors, different performer on every song, and they like things loud. They are not the featured sound, my thought is they worked at it so hard they want it to be heard, and i agree. They are very good.
Title: Re: mike for tap dancers?
Post by: Kevin Conlon on March 19, 2019, 11:21:01 pm
Acts like Riverdance use cardiod lavs wye'd together into a wireless belt pack.  This version requires a belt pack on every dancer and Riverdance only mics the leads.  The "chorus " dancers are simply track playback.  Crown PCCs work for fairly low volume stages, shotguns work a bit better for louder stages but they won't compete with a loud rock band if the dancers are the featured sound.  This of course is for Irish step dancers who are usually much louder than traditional tap dances to begin with.
The lavs are working out well, on the shoe laces, as requested by the girls. can't see them at all. I just hope none fall off.
Title: Re: mike for tap dancers?
Post by: Eric Snodgrass on March 21, 2019, 12:01:14 pm
The lavs are working out well, on the shoe laces, as requested by the girls. can't see them at all. I just hope none fall off.

You need some sort of elastic cord tied to the mic cord and looped around the shoe between the heel and ball of the foot (where tap shoes are raised above the floor).  Clear, elastic beading cord sold at crafting stores is perfect for this.  Then you can place the mic element either on the side of the arch of the shoe or even snug under the arch of the shoe against the heel. 
Title: Re: mike for tap dancers?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 21, 2019, 02:21:14 pm
You need some sort of elastic cord tied to the mic cord and looped around the shoe between the heel and ball of the foot (where tap shoes are raised above the floor).  Clear, elastic beading cord sold at crafting stores is perfect for this.  Then you can place the mic element either on the side of the arch of the shoe or even snug under the arch of the shoe against the heel.

Yeah, that's more elegant than what Riverdance (c.2000) did - a dab of museum putty where the arch met the heel, embed the little A-T mic in the putty, and secure with a small strip of gaff tape.  It was a 2 mics in parallel wiring scheme.  IIRC they killed a mic or 2 every week.

The irony was that the tap sounds in the PA were recorded.  The live mics were back up for the playback or if another dancer had to substitute for a lead and danced a different routine.
Title: Re: mike for tap dancers?
Post by: Kevin Conlon on March 21, 2019, 11:54:17 pm
You need some sort of elastic cord tied to the mic cord and looped around the shoe between the heel and ball of the foot (where tap shoes are raised above the floor).  Clear, elastic beading cord sold at crafting stores is perfect for this.  Then you can place the mic element either on the side of the arch of the shoe or even snug under the arch of the shoe against the heel.
They do fine from the shoelace. The elastic cord would be better than the zip ties i was thinking about.
Title: Re: mike for tap dancers?
Post by: Kevin Conlon on March 22, 2019, 12:04:58 am
Yeah, that's more elegant than what Riverdance (c.2000) did - a dab of museum putty where the arch met the heel, embed the little A-T mic in the putty, and secure with a small strip of gaff tape.  It was a 2 mics in parallel wiring scheme.  IIRC they killed a mic or 2 every week.

The irony was that the tap sounds in the PA were recorded.  The live mics were back up for the playback or if another dancer had to substitute for a lead and danced a different routine.
I never saw riverdance live, only bits on tv. Hard to imagine making such a mess for a back-up and still trashing mikes, can't imagine the hit the pa took on that. As i don't have splitters this year i have one mike on a left foot of one and the right of another. Noone wanted 2 packs as there wardrobe my fail from the weight. And if we get to prerecorded in this show i may be done. First show was tonite and went well, only 9 more to go.
Title: Re: mike for tap dancers?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on March 22, 2019, 10:04:23 am
I never saw riverdance live, only bits on tv. Hard to imagine making such a mess for a back-up and still trashing mikes, can't imagine the hit the pa took on that. As i don't have splitters this year i have one mike on a left foot of one and the right of another. Noone wanted 2 packs as there wardrobe my fail from the weight. And if we get to prerecorded in this show i may be done. First show was tonite and went well, only 9 more to go.

The Riverdance example is 20 years old now... The producer (he danced in the original show) was keen on a specific tap sound (more clunk and clack, less "click") according to the sound designer.  IIRC we mic'd up about a dozen dancers, so 24 mics on shoes; losing a mic or 2 each week wasn't a big deal to the show.  The understudies danced different routines so their  live mics were used in the matinee shows.  Remember, too, that these little A-T mics only had to reproduce the tap sounds so some damage didn't matter, although you'd never be able to use them for another application.

I like your shoe lace placement. :)
Title: Re: mike for tap dancers?
Post by: Kevin Conlon on March 22, 2019, 11:58:36 pm
The Riverdance example is 20 years old now... The producer (he danced in the original show) was keen on a specific tap sound (more clunk and clack, less "click") according to the sound designer.  IIRC we mic'd up about a dozen dancers, so 24 mics on shoes; losing a mic or 2 each week wasn't a big deal to the show.  The understudies danced different routines so their  live mics were used in the matinee shows.  Remember, too, that these little A-T mics only had to reproduce the tap sounds so some damage didn't matter, although you'd never be able to use them for another application.

I like your shoe lace placement. :)
Actualy the  girls idea, they came to me and asked "will this work"? It works well enough for the job. I am worried blowing a cone than loosing a mike! Thanks.
Title: Re: mike for tap dancers?
Post by: Jerome Malsack on March 24, 2019, 09:00:48 am
There was an article on Pro Sound   https://www.prosoundweb.com/topics/sound_reinforcement/capturingthe_tap_shoe_sound_of_the_radio_city_rockettes/    for the Rockets and putting the lav between the heal and the Toe.