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Title: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 25, 2019, 12:56:47 pm
I am sad again....

I used the DSR112's a few weeks ago - and one went off while the band was playing. I walked up to it - all lights were off. I turned it off at the back and turned back on and it came back to life and lasted the entire show. This speaker is the matching one to the original pair - not the replacement. 
So I will be taking it into the OTHER local shop I have close by and try this process again in the hope I don't end up  getting the run around like last time. I can't begin to say how disappointed I am AGAIN.....
WHAT IN THE WORLD???
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Steve Garris on February 25, 2019, 12:58:49 pm
I am sad again....

I used the DSR112's a few weeks ago - and one went off while the band was playing. I walked up to it - all lights were off. I turned it off at the back and turned back on and it came back to life and lasted the entire show. This speaker is the matching one to the original pair - not the replacement. 
So I will be taking it into the OTHER local shop I have close by and try this process again in the hope I don't end up  getting the run around like last time. I can't begin to say how disappointed I am AGAIN.....
WHAT IN THE WORLD???

Sorry to hear! Mine have been so rock solid that I can hardly imaging getting anything else. Good luck with the diagnostic and keep us updated on the progress.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 25, 2019, 01:18:10 pm
The first one that went bad would go off and NOT come back on at all till the next day. This one came back on immediately so a different symptom. I know it didn't get hot - inside show in winter.
So is there any possible reason this might be a fluke? I am scared to use them till this is sorted out.

I thought I might set up the SRX812's at the next show and have this DSR112 set up too using a split to both the SRX and the DSR on the one side. Start with the DSR112 on that side and if it goes out, just switch straight to the SRX. Trouble is even if it lasts, I'll be nervous each show ....

A friend of mine just purchased a pair DZR315's going from QSC KW153's. He LOVES them.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 25, 2019, 01:23:26 pm
Sorry - got sidetracked... anyway I asked why he didn't get the single 12's or 15's as he always uses subs. He said he compared the 2 and the 315's sounded way better in the low mids - he is a guitar player and commented that the single 12 (might have been the 15) sounded too shrill......
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Steve Garris on February 25, 2019, 01:34:05 pm
commented that the single 12 (might have been the 15) sounded too shrill......

That's kind of how I feel about the DSR, but I simply EQ it out. My band customers always love my monitors though.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 25, 2019, 02:20:30 pm
That's kind of how I feel about the DSR, but I simply EQ it out. My band customers always love my monitors though.
I have never noticed this in general. I have had shows where a little more EQ was required in that area but for the most part I don't hear shrill.
My friend was complaining how heavy the DZR's are - another reason why I try to go single drivers.
I see from the specs though that the KW 315's are only just under 5lbs lighter than the DZR's.

Maybe I will sell my DSR's when I have a conclusion to this and get a set of DZR's. Surely the bad luck won't follow me - right? If I do, I'd get single drivers again. I love the weight, the way they sit on stands/poles and the room they take up in the van....

Chris is telling me he is noticing the extra weight of the SRX812's  ...



Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Jay Marr on February 25, 2019, 02:37:03 pm
That's kind of how I feel about the DSR, but I simply EQ it out. My band customers always love my monitors though.

What board you are using (general curiosity)?
My DSRs sound shrill - only when using certain mixers.  Wondering what you are using.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Jay Marr on February 25, 2019, 02:38:22 pm
Debbie,
Have you been able to recreate the issue again at home?
I always feel better when I can recreate the issue, so the risk is low that when I sent for the repair that they actually fix something, rather than just saying that it seems to be working fine.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 25, 2019, 03:12:04 pm
Debbie,
Have you been able to recreate the issue again at home?
I always feel better when I can recreate the issue, so the risk is low that when I sent for the repair that they actually fix something, rather than just saying that it seems to be working fine.
And there-in lies the problem Jay - It hasn't happened since. I can keep trying it out but no issues each time.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 25, 2019, 03:12:27 pm
What board you are using (general curiosity)?
My DSRs sound shrill - only when using certain mixers.  Wondering what you are using.

A&H Qu Pac
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Mal Brown on February 25, 2019, 03:51:55 pm
Maybe funny voltage on that circuit ?   My old (and gone) PRs 612ms would not start once when everything K Series was happy.  Moved circuits and the PRXs came to life and the K series still worked....  very odd but the K series being sold world wide may have a more robust and flexible power supply.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Jay Marr on February 25, 2019, 07:34:20 pm
A&H Qu Pac

Got ya.  No shrill with the Qu-Pac

Was curious what Steve was using where he hears them being shrill.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Jay Marr on February 25, 2019, 07:34:43 pm
And there-in lies the problem Jay - It hasn't happened since. I can keep trying it out but no issues each time.

And those are the worst problems!
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Robert Lunceford on February 25, 2019, 11:58:30 pm
Maybe I will sell my DSR's when I have a conclusion to this and get a set of DZR's.

The last time you posted that you were getting DZRs, you ended up getting a mixing board instead.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Steve Garris on February 26, 2019, 02:03:02 pm
Got ya.  No shrill with the Qu-Pac

Was curious what Steve was using where he hears them being shrill.

The shrill I mentioned is with the DSR on the floor for FB (Aux mix). I did use them once as mains, but didn't care for the lack of low-mid punch as compared to the PRX's 15's I have. My mixer is a Mackie DL1608, which does not sound remotely "shrill" when used with my SRX and PRX mains. I now have a Souncraft Ui24 that I'm still in learning mode with.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Kemper Watson on February 26, 2019, 05:54:40 pm
Maybe funny voltage on that circuit ?   My old (and gone) PRs 612ms would not start once when everything K Series was happy.  Moved circuits and the PRXs came to life and the K series still worked....  very odd but the K series being sold world wide may have a more robust and flexible power supply.

It has to be a voltage sag issue. i have one that will stay on 90% of the time. But some rooms it will go off. Comes right back on. I have to watch where I use it. It's on injured reserve as we speak... ;D
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Scott Bolt on February 26, 2019, 08:38:56 pm
Hi Debbie,

Wow... just ...wow.

Maybe you should pick up one of these:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L58BDG7/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07L58BDG7&pd_rd_w=T2jhJ&pf_rd_p=733540df-430d-45cd-9525-21bc15b0e6cc&pd_rd_wg=OUvLu&pf_rd_r=8FEADDV8CQ6M9Y6P4MNR&pd_rd_r=1444f1e8-3a2e-11e9-8857-518f15906d37

You could check out the socket for good wiring and voltage.  Hopefully Kemper Watson had it right and that is all it is.

I haven't had any issues since I got my rattling woofer fixed.  Both my DSR's have been performing beautifully.  I really hope you just had a bad socket doing that.

I have plugged into tons of different sockets and have even run on a generator that was obviously not keeping up with the load (lights dimmed every time the kick was hit) and still never had a DSR go out.

Maybe you should get a paper trail going for this speaker so if it happens after warranty, you can claim it is a pre-existing condition :)

I hope things work out for you.  You don't deserve this bad luck.

FWIW, I have heard some people say that the ribbon cable inside the DSR can get dirty contacts and need to be cleaned up.  If your speaker is in warranty, maybe you could suggest a repair shop do it under warranty for you?
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 26, 2019, 08:56:20 pm
The last time you posted that you were getting DZRs, you ended up getting a mixing board instead.

No - the last time I posted SHOULD I get DZR's and based partly on the advice I got here to perhaps upgrade my mixer and the fact a SQ6 became available at a great price - I ended up getting a board instead.
Also at that time my DSR hadn't crapped out on me.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 26, 2019, 09:03:58 pm
It has to be a voltage sag issue. i have one that will stay on 90% of the time. But some rooms it will go off. Comes right back on. I have to watch where I use it. It's on injured reserve as we speak... ;D
I was wondering if it could be something simple like this.
I hope so but I am wary of trying them out anywhere unless I take it in to have it checked out and if he finds nothing wrong I'll do what I suggested in my earlier post and take the offending speaker with me to a bunch of shows along with both my SRX's and set it up as an extra on one side.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 26, 2019, 09:05:40 pm
Hi Debbie,

Wow... just ...wow.

Maybe you should pick up one of these:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L58BDG7/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07L58BDG7&pd_rd_w=T2jhJ&pf_rd_p=733540df-430d-45cd-9525-21bc15b0e6cc&pd_rd_wg=OUvLu&pf_rd_r=8FEADDV8CQ6M9Y6P4MNR&pd_rd_r=1444f1e8-3a2e-11e9-8857-518f15906d37

You could check out the socket for good wiring and voltage.  Hopefully Kemper Watson had it right and that is all it is.

I haven't had any issues since I got my rattling woofer fixed.  Both my DSR's have been performing beautifully.  I really hope you just had a bad socket doing that.

I have plugged into tons of different sockets and have even run on a generator that was obviously not keeping up with the load (lights dimmed every time the kick was hit) and still never had a DSR go out.

Maybe you should get a paper trail going for this speaker so if it happens after warranty, you can claim it is a pre-existing condition :)

I hope things work out for you.  You don't deserve this bad luck.

FWIW, I have heard some people say that the ribbon cable inside the DSR can get dirty contacts and need to be cleaned up.  If your speaker is in warranty, maybe you could suggest a repair shop do it under warranty for you?

Yeah I'm still well inside that 7 year warranty so I'll drop it off and have it checked out.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Wayne Smith2 on February 27, 2019, 04:28:33 am
Hi Debbie,

Wow... just ...wow.

Maybe you should pick up one of these:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L58BDG7/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07L58BDG7&pd_rd_w=T2jhJ&pf_rd_p=733540df-430d-45cd-9525-21bc15b0e6cc&pd_rd_wg=OUvLu&pf_rd_r=8FEADDV8CQ6M9Y6P4MNR&pd_rd_r=1444f1e8-3a2e-11e9-8857-518f15906d37

You could check out the socket for good wiring and voltage.  Hopefully Kemper Watson had it right and that is all it is.

I haven't had any issues since I got my rattling woofer fixed.  Both my DSR's have been performing beautifully.  I really hope you just had a bad socket doing that.

I have plugged into tons of different sockets and have even run on a generator that was obviously not keeping up with the load (lights dimmed every time the kick was hit) and still never had a DSR go out. [snip...]
Yes wow, and especially again after the earlier issues.
We have an even simpler inexpensive plug-in volt meter (in this case simply suspect inst amps loss of headroom at a few of our little venues.

I was wondering though, might a small generator be used intentionally throttled down, to provide a low voltage test? Oddly, I still have an old variac that could do it.
Thanks
Wayne


Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Kevin Maxwell on February 27, 2019, 08:11:33 am
Yes wow, and especially again after the earlier issues.
We have an even simpler inexpensive plug-in volt meter (in this case simply suspect inst amps loss of headroom at a few of our little venues.

I was wondering though, might a small generator be used intentionally throttled down, to provide a low voltage test? Oddly, I still have an old variac that could do it.
Thanks
Wayne

Or put a couple of 1k lights (or 4 500w lights) on a dimmer to load down the circuit and put the speaker or 2 on the same circuit (NOT on the Dimmed side) and see if as you turn the light up and the lights get brighter does this speaker shut down before the other speaker on the same circuit.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Wayne Smith2 on February 27, 2019, 12:30:14 pm
Or put a couple of 1k lights (or 4 500w lights) on a dimmer to load down the circuit and put the speaker or 2 on the same circuit (NOT on the Dimmed side) and see if as you turn the light up and the lights get brighter does this speaker shut down before the other speaker on the same circuit.
Just to follow up with another question- Aside from any number of other possible causes, could something like this be a fault of a low voltage protection device (or circuit) 'engaging at a high or out of spec threshold?
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 27, 2019, 01:48:06 pm
What is weird is that turning off and then on brought the speaker back to life. I have never had that happen before unless it was a thermal issue. The one that went bad last year was either on or off regardless of whether I tried to switch on and off.
Also we had played that club using the exact same power source and equipment probably 30 + times without any issues whatsoever.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Kemper Watson on February 27, 2019, 04:24:55 pm
What is weird is that turning off and then on brought the speaker back to life. I have never had that happen before unless it was a thermal issue. The one that went bad last year was either on or off regardless of whether I tried to switch on and off.
Also we had played that club using the exact same power source and equipment probably 30 + times without any issues whatsoever.

Mine will always come back on. And stay on 30 minutes. But not 45..
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Robert Lunceford on February 27, 2019, 05:01:06 pm
What is weird is that turning off and then on brought the speaker back to life. I have never had that happen before unless it was a thermal issue. The one that went bad last year was either on or off regardless of whether I tried to switch on and off.
Also we had played that club using the exact same power source and equipment probably 30 + times without any issues whatsoever.

Could it be something as simple as an IEC cord with an intermittent connection in the cord itself?
Intermittent cables causing problems can be difficult to diagnose.




Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 27, 2019, 05:07:54 pm
Could it be something as simple as an IEC cord with an intermittent connection in the cord itself?
Intermittent cables causing problems can be difficult to diagnose.

Maybe. Before I switched the speaker back on I made sure the IEC cord and XLR were both secure BUT of course  that doesn't mean the IEC cord still isn't bad.  However, I have been using the same one for my SRX's - both speakers have locking IEC's so I use the same cables each time.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Robert Lunceford on March 01, 2019, 05:14:52 pm
Maybe. Before I switched the speaker back on I made sure the IEC cord and XLR were both secure BUT of course  that doesn't mean the IEC cord still isn't bad.  However, I have been using the same one for my SRX's - both speakers have locking IEC's so I use the same cables each time.

Can you set it up in your garage, basement, etc. and run it for a few days straight?
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 01, 2019, 05:40:30 pm
Can you set it up in your garage, basement, etc. and run it for a few days straight?

It might come to that.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 06, 2019, 01:38:20 pm
I have been running the 'bad' speaker for a few hours today - quite loud in a spare room (sounds like a very noisy neighbor sharing an apartment block -LOL)....
Any way so far so good.
Even though it went off on an inside show where the temperature was pretty nice and we had nothing under 100hz going through it - no pops or bangs or loud noises that I could hear, maybe it did just shut down for some reason and because of my previous experience I panicked and stopped using them. After all when I hit the on/off button it came back on and stayed on the whole rest of the show.
This is NOT what happened with the other one that went bad. That one would NOT come back on till the next day or so and then would do it again.
I just read the troubleshooting portion of the manual and it does say, " If the device won't automatically reset itself, TURN OFF THE POWER AND ON AGAIN."
I had assumed that the reset on speakers would always cause them to resume passing audio on their own once correct temperature/ voltage etc has been resumed but this indicates otherwise.

So maybe I could risk it again and take one of my PRX712's with me as back up - set up ready to go.
It is amazing just how much difference it makes to Chris lifting those SRX's speakers onto stands compared to the DSR112's. Although there is only just over 8lbs difference in weight,  and the DSR's do not have side handles, the physical size of the SRX's makes it more difficult for him also. He has a bad shoulder from lifting one of the SRX815's up onto a stand from 2017 which still causes him some pain so I need to look after him.

Now bear in mind this man not only loads the van,  unloads at the venue, carries the PA and bass equipment into the venue, helps stage set up, then plays bass, sings and puts on his performing personality, then helps strike, carries the gear back out to the van, loads the van and then unloads back home - all with my help but he definitely gets the lion's share of the heavy work!!!....
I realize this is par for the course for some of you and certainly everything but the playing on stage part is par for the course for most of you in the LOUNGE but he rarely accepts help doing this because he just wants to get on with it and everyone else is always busy with their own stuff. He also works 50+ hours a week monday through friday, is 53 years old and I really want to make his life a bit easier. He is my rock and my hero.
So being able to go back to the DSR's at least for the smaller shows would be of great benefit to Chris...... I'll give it a go.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: lindsay Dean on March 06, 2019, 02:07:09 pm
 This might be moot, I can't remember if you Center cluster  your subs or I'm probably being Elementary here but have you tried laying the stands lying down inserting pole and standing them back up
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: lindsay Dean on March 06, 2019, 02:07:45 pm
Igetting the man a nice wheel dolly :P
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: lindsay Dean on March 06, 2019, 02:08:52 pm
One of those nice luggage carts from a hotel would do good
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: lindsay Dean on March 06, 2019, 02:09:16 pm
Just hacksaw off the fancy top and you're all set
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 06, 2019, 02:12:08 pm
Actually we use the subs on wheels to transport the tops so it's not the carrying in and out that is the problem OR the placing in the van. It's the lifting onto stands/ sub poles that does his shoulder in. I have told him to stop and ask for help - I can help him with them myself as I'm pretty capable but he doesn't let me know and by the time I have turned around - he has already done it himself....
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 06, 2019, 02:14:32 pm
This might be moot, I can't remember if you Center cluster  your subs or I'm probably being Elementary here but have you tried laying the stands lying down inserting pole and standing them back up

We pretty much always put the tops on the sub poles on the indoor shows so that won't work. I have tried the 'lying down the stand and walking them up' method and it works quite well - even I can load up the SRX's that way.  My husband is impatient and won't listen so I gotta work with that.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: lindsay Dean on March 06, 2019, 02:25:57 pm
Maybe you could mother hen him until he brings those in and help.
 Most men aren't going to ask for help "giterdone"unless they absolutely have to.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 06, 2019, 02:43:29 pm
Maybe you could mother hen him until he brings those in and help.
 Most men aren't going to ask for help "giterdone"unless they absolutely have to.

Yes - true. We spoke just today about it and he has promised me he will hold off placing them on the stands or removing them until he has help. We will see...
He can handle the DSR's on his own with no ill effects - its just the way he positions his body when he lifts them up and removes them.

The DSR's are still going strong up there - I have the iPod library set on repeat......

Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Les Kanekuni on March 06, 2019, 04:30:59 pm
If he still has pain/weakness in his shoulder from an injury that occurred years ago, he needs to get physical therapy.  The injury might have healed, but the loss of flexibility/strength in the shoulder will persist until it is rehabbed.  I had the same thing:  a misdiagnosed shoulder injury that years later was weak and painful.  I could not throw a football without pain.  Luckily, I had insurance.  It took months of not-fun PT, but the shoulder is fine now.  Again, the shoulder is not going to get any better until he rehabs it.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 06, 2019, 04:53:09 pm
If he still has pain/weakness in his shoulder from an injury that occurred years ago, he needs to get physical therapy.  The injury might have healed, but the loss of flexibility/strength in the shoulder will persist until it is rehabbed.  I had the same thing:  a misdiagnosed shoulder injury that years later was weak and painful.  I could not throw a football without pain.  Luckily, I had insurance.  It took months of not-fun PT, but the shoulder is fine now.  Again, the shoulder is not going to get any better until he rehabs it.

Thanks Les....we are getting a bit concerned. It was the NYE show 2017 so just over a year ago.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: David Allred on March 06, 2019, 06:54:19 pm
I have been running the 'bad' speaker for a few hours today - quite loud in a spare room (sounds like a very noisy neighbor sharing an apartment block -LOL)....
Any way so far so good.
Even though it went off on an inside show where the temperature was pretty nice and we had nothing under 100hz going through it - no pops or bangs or loud noises that I could hear, maybe it did just shut down for some reason and because of my previous experience I panicked and stopped using them. After all when I hit the on/off button it came back on and stayed on the whole rest of the show.
This is NOT what happened with the other one that went bad. That one would NOT come back on till the next day or so and then would do it again.
I just read the troubleshooting portion of the manual and it does say, " If the device won't automatically reset itself, TURN OFF THE POWER AND ON AGAIN."
I had assumed that the reset on speakers would always cause them to resume passing audio on their own once correct temperature/ voltage etc has been resumed but this indicates otherwise.

So maybe I could risk it again and take one of my PRX712's with me as back up - set up ready to go.
It is amazing just how much difference it makes to Chris lifting those SRX's speakers onto stands compared to the DSR112's. Although there is only just over 8lbs difference in weight,  and the DSR's do not have side handles, the physical size of the SRX's makes it more difficult for him also. He has a bad shoulder from lifting one of the SRX815's up onto a stand from 2017 which still causes him some pain so I need to look after him.

Now bear in mind this man not only loads the van,  unloads at the venue, carries the PA and bass equipment into the venue, helps stage set up, then plays bass, sings and puts on his performing personality, then helps strike, carries the gear back out to the van, loads the van and then unloads back home - all with my help but he definitely gets the lion's share of the heavy work!!!....
I realize this is par for the course for some of you and certainly everything but the playing on stage part is par for the course for most of you in the LOUNGE but he rarely accepts help doing this because he just wants to get on with it and everyone else is always busy with their own stuff. He also works 50+ hours a week monday through friday, is 53 years old and I really want to make his life a bit easier. He is my rock and my hero.
So being able to go back to the DSR's at least for the smaller shows would be of great benefit to Chris...... I'll give it a go.

Not sure if this has been asked, but are the serial #'s of the original and this speaker close in sequence? 
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 06, 2019, 07:13:40 pm
Not sure if this has been asked, but are the serial #'s of the original and this speaker close in sequence?

101047 & 101053
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Rob Spence on March 06, 2019, 07:16:18 pm
We pretty much always put the tops on the sub poles on the indoor shows so that won't work. I have tried the 'lying down the stand and walking them up' method and it works quite well - even I can load up the SRX's that way.  My husband is impatient and won't listen so I gotta work with that.

I did a wedding this fall where I installed the M20 poles on the subs, then tipped the subs on their side and slid the ZXa5 on the pole and then walked it up. Worked great and much easier than lifting them on as in the past. Reversed it at loadout. Used Daves Anglers too.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 06, 2019, 07:19:59 pm
I did a wedding this fall where I installed the M20 poles on the subs, then tipped the subs on their side and slid the ZXa5 on the pole and then walked it up. Worked great and much easier than lifting them on as in the past. Reversed it at loadout. Used Daves Anglers too.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Wow - well I could try that I suppose but it would only work with my SRX subs - the PRX's are attached to wheel dollies on the bottom.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Robert Lunceford on March 06, 2019, 11:08:22 pm
I have been running the 'bad' speaker for a few hours today - quite loud in a spare room (sounds like a very noisy neighbor sharing an apartment block -LOL)....
Any way so far so good.
Even though it went off on an inside show where the temperature was pretty nice and we had nothing under 100hz going through it - no pops or bangs or loud noises that I could hear, maybe it did just shut down for some reason and because of my previous experience I panicked and stopped using them. After all when I hit the on/off button it came back on and stayed on the whole rest of the show.
This is NOT what happened with the other one that went bad. That one would NOT come back on till the next day or so and then would do it again.
I just read the troubleshooting portion of the manual and it does say, " If the device won't automatically reset itself, TURN OFF THE POWER AND ON AGAIN."
I had assumed that the reset on speakers would always cause them to resume passing audio on their own once correct temperature/ voltage etc has been resumed but this indicates otherwise.

So maybe I could risk it again and take one of my PRX712's with me as back up - set up ready to go.
It is amazing just how much difference it makes to Chris lifting those SRX's speakers onto stands compared to the DSR112's. Although there is only just over 8lbs difference in weight,  and the DSR's do not have side handles, the physical size of the SRX's makes it more difficult for him also. He has a bad shoulder from lifting one of the SRX815's up onto a stand from 2017 which still causes him some pain so I need to look after him.

Now bear in mind this man not only loads the van,  unloads at the venue, carries the PA and bass equipment into the venue, helps stage set up, then plays bass, sings and puts on his performing personality, then helps strike, carries the gear back out to the van, loads the van and then unloads back home - all with my help but he definitely gets the lion's share of the heavy work!!!....
I realize this is par for the course for some of you and certainly everything but the playing on stage part is par for the course for most of you in the LOUNGE but he rarely accepts help doing this because he just wants to get on with it and everyone else is always busy with their own stuff. He also works 50+ hours a week monday through friday, is 53 years old and I really want to make his life a bit easier. He is my rock and my hero.
So being able to go back to the DSR's at least for the smaller shows would be of great benefit to Chris...... I'll give it a go.
Any good reason not to dump the JBLs and get a second pair of DSR?
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Mike Karseboom on March 06, 2019, 11:41:01 pm
"Walking DSR's up from the floor" - I  did not go into this  on my rant against DSR 112's from last year but I tried that once with a tripod where the bottom was about 7.5' up.  Being by myself I needed to mostly walk my hands up the pole with no support on the speaker itself.  Well the plastic pole cup broke about one quarter the way up.  So I would be careful doing that technique.


The good news is the pole cup can basically be "welded" back together with a heat gun.  The bad news is it is  still the same cheap plastic, non-tiltable pole cup.


As to lifting difficulty onto an erect tripood, I find it easier to lift speakers that are larger and 10lbs heavier if they have both side handles.  I actually got some fender guitar cabinet surface mount handles and screwed them into side of the  DSR with the "missing" handle.


On a positive note I did have yet another failure last December and Yamaha sent me a new speaker as a no cost exchange.  So good on them for their support.  I know I  am in the minority having problems with these, but now  they are my living room speakers and, much as I like the sound, they don't go out unless I  run out of  other boxes.

Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Dave Garoutte on March 07, 2019, 02:18:42 am
The Iwo Jima tilt up is great as long as you are not putting a lot of side load on the pole cups of either the sub or the top, as Mike found out.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 07, 2019, 09:37:13 am
Any good reason not to dump the JBLs and get a second pair of DSR?

For corporate shows I like the match of the tops and subs but I might have done this at one time till the problems started.
So right now I keep my SRX's partly for aesthetics, partly for brand recognition, partly because they sound so darn good and partly because they have never let me down.
My confidence with Yamaha DSR is bit shaken.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 07, 2019, 09:38:28 am
"Walking DSR's up from the floor" - I  did not go into this  on my rant against DSR 112's from last year but I tried that once with a tripod where the bottom was about 7.5' up.  Being by myself I needed to mostly walk my hands up the pole with no support on the speaker itself.  Well the plastic pole cup broke about one quarter the way up.  So I would be careful doing that technique.


The good news is the pole cup can basically be "welded" back together with a heat gun.  The bad news is it is  still the same cheap plastic, non-tiltable pole cup.


As to lifting difficulty onto an erect tripood, I find it easier to lift speakers that are larger and 10lbs heavier if they have both side handles.  I actually got some fender guitar cabinet surface mount handles and screwed them into side of the  DSR with the "missing" handle.


On a positive note I did have yet another failure last December and Yamaha sent me a new speaker as a no cost exchange.  So good on them for their support.  I know I  am in the minority having problems with these, but now  they are my living room speakers and, much as I like the sound, they don't go out unless I  run out of  other boxes.

Geez Mike - you had another one go down since that last one you discussed on the forum or is it the same one you spoke of?
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 07, 2019, 09:38:56 am
The Iwo Jima tilt up is great as long as you are not putting a lot of side load on the pole cups of either the sub or the top, as Mike found out.

It would worry me bit for sure.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Mike Karseboom on March 07, 2019, 10:17:27 am
Geez Mike - you had another one go down since that last one you discussed on the forum or is it the same one you spoke of?
I only had/have two.  But each have had intermittent problems.  I do think it is just me that is jinxed on these boxes so don't want to cast more aspersions on a well respected product that works great for so many.  Plus, I commend Yamaha for standing behind them 100%. 
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 07, 2019, 10:59:23 am
I only had/have two.  But each have had intermittent problems.  I do think it is just me that is jinxed on these boxes so don't want to cast more aspersions on a well respected product that works great for so many.  Plus, I commend Yamaha for standing behind them 100%.

As you know I too (eventually) got Yamaha's support.
My situation was exacerbated by the poor service I got from the repairer till that point so I do believe Yamaha are looking after their customers. I also believe like you that these are very isolated problems and nothing should be taken away from the product which is fantastic.
Until I find otherwise, I will put this recent incident of mine down to a fluke - power or something and just take my PRX712 with me to the shows as back up. I probably should be doing that anyway as we don't use wedges that I could fall back on in the event of a FOH failure. The guitar player uses my little DXR8 on a stand just for vocals (the only old school player in the band) so that wouldn't be enough and of course he needs it himself.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Steve Garris on March 07, 2019, 01:09:07 pm
I feel his pain on lifting those SRX boxes to their poles! I have the 815p's, and they are really heavy. I almost dropped one last year trying to lift it off from a step ladder. The tilt up / tilt down method with subs doesn't work for me, as it was bending my K&M speaker poles. I can do this easily with my PRX 600 series system, but those tops are so lightweight that I can easily lift them on to the poles. I still use my PRX system more than the SRX, due to the ease of deployment. The PRX does great with small crowds of 250 or so.

The only speaker I've used that sounded as good as the SRX800 series but is lightweight, is the older, SRX700 passive series which sound really good!

Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 07, 2019, 04:07:10 pm
I feel his pain on lifting those SRX boxes to their poles! I have the 815p's, and they are really heavy. I almost dropped one last year trying to lift it off from a step ladder. The tilt up / tilt down method with subs doesn't work for me, as it was bending my K&M speaker poles. I can do this easily with my PRX 600 series system, but those tops are so lightweight that I can easily lift them on to the poles. I still use my PRX system more than the SRX, due to the ease of deployment. The PRX does great with small crowds of 250 or so.

The only speaker I've used that sounded as good as the SRX800 series but is lightweight, is the older, SRX700 passive series which sound really good!

Agreed, agreed, agreed Steve.
It was the SRX815p's that Chris was lifting when the injury occurred.

I am starting to wonder whether I should use my PRX712's more than I do - I really prefer the sound of the DSR's/ SRX812p's but in the smaller clubs is it really that noticeable?? I used to have the PRX612's too and oh yes they are SO light. I could get them up on stands on my own!

I used to have the older SRX700 passive system too and yes - it was a great system!!
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Rob Spence on March 07, 2019, 06:03:47 pm
Wow - well I could try that I suppose but it would only work with my SRX subs - the PRX's are attached to wheel dollies on the bottom.

In my case I was using KW181s which have the wheels on the rear.



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Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Rob Spence on March 07, 2019, 06:10:17 pm
I feel his pain on lifting those SRX boxes to their poles! I have the 815p's, and they are really heavy. I almost dropped one last year trying to lift it off from a step ladder. The tilt up / tilt down method with subs doesn't work for me, as it was bending my K&M speaker poles. I can do this easily with my PRX 600 series system, but those tops are so lightweight that I can easily lift them on to the poles. I still use my PRX system more than the SRX, due to the ease of deployment. The PRX does great with small crowds of 250 or so.

The only speaker I've used that sounded as good as the SRX800 series but is lightweight, is the older, SRX700 passive series which sound really good!

I use K&M poles. How were you doing the tilt?

I have the pole in the short position, horizontal. I slide the speaker on and then use one hand on the speaker handle and one on the pole as I lift it. Never felt a bit of concern about bending or stressing anything. I go gently.



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Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 07, 2019, 06:27:04 pm
In my case I was using KW181s which have the wheels on the rear.



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Same with my SRX's Rob.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Steve Garris on March 08, 2019, 12:43:05 pm
I use K&M poles. How were you doing the tilt?

I have the pole in the short position, horizontal. I slide the speaker on and then use one hand on the speaker handle and one on the pole as I lift it. Never felt a bit of concern about bending or stressing anything. I go gently.



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It's a piece of cake with my PRX system. Place the sub on its side, place to top in the pole, tilt up. The PRX sub is tall and thin. OTOH, the SRX sub is wider and flat, and the 815p top is 63 lbs. It was bending my pole down where it threads in to the socket.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 08, 2019, 01:24:15 pm
It's a piece of cake with my PRX system. Place the sub on its side, place to top in the pole, tilt up. The PRX sub is tall and thin. OTOH, the SRX sub is wider and flat, and the 815p top is 63 lbs. It was bending my pole down where it threads in to the socket.

I don't want to cause any stress on the poles, pole mounts, threads or pole cups and I fear this might happen if the walk up isn't done right or the speaker and pole isn't supported 100% of the way.
I have done it with tripods and it works quite well.
I wish the SRX812's and 815's weren't quite so heavy, although Chris says it is also about the awkwardness associated with shape and size as well as weight.

Gonna use my PRX712's tonight - smallish restaurant so keeping it compact.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Steve Garris on March 09, 2019, 02:38:06 pm

Gonna use my PRX712's tonight - smallish restaurant so keeping it compact.

I'll be curious of how that works for you. If it's small & not super loud, I find the PRX works perfectly.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on March 09, 2019, 05:56:05 pm
I'll be curious of how that works for you. If it's small & not super loud, I find the PRX works perfectly.

I used the PRX's and they worked great.
However, maybe it is because I have been using the DSR's and SRX's for so long and I am used to how they sound but I didn't feel I quite got the vocal clarity and separation. I was running sound for a friend's band so Chris wasn't playing and on this rare occasion, he had the opportunity to sit with me and listen to FOH - he said he didn't notice th lack of clarity and said they sounded great.
That being said they did the job well and I think I will start using them more at the small shows to enjoy the lightness and ease of deployment. 
I got compliments on the sound so that is quite telling I suppose....They are warm and there is plenty of volume there and for the price they are hard to beat.
I used 2 PRX's for FOH and allocated my other 2 PRX's AND my non questionable DSR112 to  monitor duty.
The drummer was iem so I gave the PRX's to the guitar and bass player and gave the DSR to the singer. She RAVED about it and told me she has never had such clarity - well DUH!! LOL.
So I still consider the DSR's to be superior to the PRX's sound wise but at small club level, I'm not sure it is enough to matter much.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on March 10, 2019, 01:48:20 am
If he still has pain/weakness in his shoulder from an injury that occurred years ago, he needs to get physical therapy.  The injury might have healed, but the loss of flexibility/strength in the shoulder will persist until it is rehabbed.  I had the same thing:  a misdiagnosed shoulder injury that years later was weak and painful.  I could not throw a football without pain.  Luckily, I had insurance.  It took months of not-fun PT, but the shoulder is fine now.  Again, the shoulder is not going to get any better until he rehabs it.
+1 on this. Shoulder injuries can become chronic and lead to reduced strength and range of motion, as well as ongoing pain if not properly diagnosed and treated. Physical therapy is effective for many different kinds of shoulder injuries, although some require surgery. He should see a physiatrist (Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation) or an orthopedist. The goals would be 1) to make sure it is not one of the uncommon shoulder injuries that would benefit more from surgery and 2) if not, to get a prescription for physical therapy and and overall rehabilitation plan. The rehab process often takes months, much of that time with substantial limitations on lifting and use of the shoulder and arms to give it time to heal. Injections can help temporarily but can weaken the shoulder tendons and often physical therapy alone is enough. The physical therapist can, based on the exact nature of the injury, give him guidance on what shoulder activities to do and to avoid, and may be able to help him find a safer way to get the speakers up on the poles.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Steve Garris on March 10, 2019, 02:40:00 pm
I used the PRX's and they worked great.
However, maybe it is because I have been using the DSR's and SRX's for so long and I am used to how they sound but I didn't feel I quite got the vocal clarity and separation. I was running sound for a friend's band so Chris wasn't playing and on this rare occasion, he had the opportunity to sit with me and listen to FOH - he said he didn't notice th lack of clarity and said they sounded great.
That being said they did the job well and I think I will start using them more at the small shows to enjoy the lightness and ease of deployment. 
I got compliments on the sound so that is quite telling I suppose....They are warm and there is plenty of volume there and for the price they are hard to beat.
I used 2 PRX's for FOH and allocated my other 2 PRX's AND my non questionable DSR112 to  monitor duty.
The drummer was iem so I gave the PRX's to the guitar and bass player and gave the DSR to the singer. She RAVED about it and told me she has never had such clarity - well DUH!! LOL.
So I still consider the DSR's to be superior to the PRX's sound wise but at small club level, I'm not sure it is enough to matter much.

Good to hear! I believe when the mix out front sounds good so does the stage, and thus a good engineer gets praise regardless of monitor used.
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Mark Dawson on March 19, 2019, 05:29:19 am
Maybe funny voltage on that circuit ?   My old (and gone) PRs 612ms would not start once when everything K Series was happy.  Moved circuits and the PRXs came to life and the K series still worked....  very odd but the K series being sold world wide may have a more robust and flexible power supply.


Mal, we had that happen once.   String of 612 simply wouldnt go.   On a questionable generator.   Move to an alternative supply  and they fired up.


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Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on April 12, 2019, 07:57:35 pm
I forgot to update everyone on the DSR thing....
So because I was concerned that this might be another intermittent fault, and that I would have to go through the whole back and forth taking it in to the shop and the tech not being able to find anything etc etc etc....I decided to try it out at a few shows instead. It is behaving normally with no issues whatsoever so unless I get any further problems I will put that failure a few weeks ago down to a power issue as was suggested here.

Also update on Chris's shoulder.
A few weeks ago, he started doing some dumbbell exercises every morning to strengthen the muscles around the shoulder joint based on advice of a friend - and it seems to be working.
He hasn't had any pain since and of course he is enjoying lifting the  lighter DSR's up onto stands at shows....

Thanks everyone for the advice and concern.....
Title: Re: DSR112 - problem again.
Post by: Kemper Watson on April 12, 2019, 08:41:44 pm
I forgot to update everyone on the DSR thing....
So because I was concerned that this might be another intermittent fault, and that I would have to go through the whole back and forth taking it in to the shop and the tech not being able to find anything etc etc etc....I decided to try it out at a few shows instead. It is behaving normally with no issues whatsoever so unless I get any further problems I will put that failure a few weeks ago down to a power issue as was suggested here.



That is my speaker exactly. I've got it down to 3-4 places that I can't use it