ProSoundWeb Community

Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Jeff Stielau on February 19, 2019, 09:07:43 am

Title: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Jeff Stielau on February 19, 2019, 09:07:43 am
Time to install UPS backup supplies on our consoles this season.

What's is everyone's current choice?  So many to choose from !

These are going on Soundcraft Vi1 boards.

Spec sheets shows less than 1 amp draw.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Bob Stone on February 19, 2019, 09:16:36 am
Rack mount? Cyber Power is going to be your cheap option, they have a few 500-700-1000VA models for a few hundred bucks. Otherwise APC is the big dollar high end stuff.

I'd size the UPS large enough though to run the board for at least a half hour and factor in a desk light at FOH and a few phones charging and probably a laptop or tablet or two.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Jeff Stielau on February 19, 2019, 09:50:17 am
Rack mount? Cyber Power is going to be your cheap option, they have a few 500-700-1000VA models for a few hundred bucks. Otherwise APC is the big dollar high end stuff.

I'd size the UPS large enough though to run the board for at least a half hour and factor in a desk light at FOH and a few phones charging and probably a laptop or tablet or two.

Yep...definitely rack mount.  It can live right in the console case.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Riley Casey on February 19, 2019, 09:53:01 am
We used APC units for years until I discovered the much smaller and lighter Cyber Power units. I size the UPSs to run the console or RIO box and their associated switches and only long enough to address the power loss.  I leave plenty of other power distro available for laptops and phones as I donít need to carry that weight in batteries for devices that have their own.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 19, 2019, 10:14:20 am
Time to install UPS backup supplies on our consoles this season.

What's is everyone's current choice?  So many to choose from !

These are going on Soundcraft Vi1 boards.

Spec sheets shows less than 1 amp draw.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions

My experience: I use a Cyber Power 1000PFCLCD. I use it for my 'brain' on stage ( mixer, router, DMX splitter, ethernet switch, iem transmitters, wireless mic receiver)
It is a non racked version - but has been extremely reliable and has clicked in seamlessly a few times over the 5 years I have owned it.
I own 2 and use one in my home at my computer station.
Even though it is 5 years old now, the battery just won't give up and still shows 18 minutes of run time when power is lost (more than enough for me)
The one I have at home is only 18 months old and was meant to be my back up when this one game up but so far it is still going strong.
If I needed a larger rack version, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Cyber Power.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Bob Stone on February 19, 2019, 11:39:04 am
We used APC units for years until I discovered the much smaller and lighter Cyber Power units. I size the UPSs to run the console or RIO box and their associated switches and only long enough to address the power loss.  I leave plenty of other power distro available for laptops and phones as I donít need to carry that weight in batteries for devices that have their own.

My thought is I just power all of FOH from the UPS so everything keeps on ticking if the plug gets pulled. Granted laptops and such will keep going on their own but if they end up on the load side of the UPS, I don't want it to trip the overload.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Dave Garoutte on February 19, 2019, 01:05:30 pm
Better to keep the uninteruptable side for mission critical devices; mixers, network stuff, WAPs.
All your chargers and non-critical devices on the non-battery side.
Also, don't forget the stage box needs one too!
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on February 19, 2019, 04:43:27 pm
I have a APC Smart-UPS 1000VA living together with a Digico D2-rack on stage. Bundled together a power cord, two coax lines and 4 analog lines so I feed my SD8+ a Waves server on FOH from that UPS. Gives me about 20 minutes of running time, enough to either solve the power issue or power down safely.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Kirby Yarbrough on February 20, 2019, 09:19:38 am
What's is everyone's current choice?

Tripp-Lite SMART500RT1U, supports the QL1, WAP and Ri8.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 20, 2019, 09:29:59 am
I checked when I purchased my UPS to be sure and it was over 5 years ago. According to what I have read, 3-5 years is what is considered to be the battery life yet mine still holds 100% charge. score!
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Chris Hindle on February 20, 2019, 12:39:53 pm
I checked when I purchased my UPS to be sure and it was over 5 years ago. According to what I have read, 3-5 years is what is considered to be the battery life yet mine still holds 100% charge. score!

Debbie, UPS generally run 24/7, Yours doesn't.
Of course, with less time "plugged in", you should expect longer battery life.
On the other hand, once you've got a few years on it, run the battery down a time or two, and it may report 100, but you won't get the expected runtime.
Chris.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Bob Stone on February 20, 2019, 01:57:04 pm
Debbie, UPS generally run 24/7, Yours doesn't.
Of course, with less time "plugged in", you should expect longer battery life.
On the other hand, once you've got a few years on it, run the battery down a time or two, and it may report 100, but you won't get the expected runtime.
Chris.

Agreed. You should test the UPS by running it down under load. Old batteries will charge to 100% but drop from 100% to 90% in 2 minutes and then 90% to 0% in 5 seconds after that if cells have gone bad. I've found most UPS's I've owned will hit that point after roughly 4 or 5 years.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Dave Garoutte on February 20, 2019, 04:15:38 pm
Figure out you wattage draw and attach a light bulb or two to replicate the load.
Time how long it stays lit.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 20, 2019, 08:31:57 pm
Will do. I was checking out replacement batteries too - less than $50 for both and an easy replacement - so not too bad.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Jeff Stielau on February 21, 2019, 08:37:31 am
Just poking around , found these "new" on Ebay.  600W version or the CyberPower series

Seems to good to be true!  no?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CyberPower-Smart-App-LCD-OR1000LCDRM1U-1000-VA-600-W-UPS-Series/254064856489?_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131227121020%26meid%3D68bda3200e5b43c1b5ba6ab445c3e3c5%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D132955631985%26itm%3D254064856489&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982#shpCntId
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 21, 2019, 09:28:10 am
When I purchased mine I took the advice from folks here who advised me to get 'pure sine wave' which I did.
Would 'simulated sine wave' make much difference?
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Jeff Stielau on February 21, 2019, 09:48:09 am
When I purchased mine I took the advice from folks here who advised me to get 'pure sine wave' which I did.
Would 'simulated sine wave' make much difference?



Hmmmmm.....I suppose if it's only in emergency/short term situations...it's fine.

http://www.minutemanups.com/support/pwr_un10.php
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Bob Faulkner on February 21, 2019, 10:58:56 am
So, considering simulated sine waves and square waves, which one would you put first in-line from the utility power:

UPS or voltage regulator?

Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Bob Stone on February 21, 2019, 11:30:38 am
When I purchased mine I took the advice from folks here who advised me to get 'pure sine wave' which I did.
Would 'simulated sine wave' make much difference?

Simulated sine wave is basically a step function rather than an actual sine wave. Pure sine wave for audio purposes (especially analog gear) is pretty important. In the end though, if it's the choice between no UPS or a cheaper UPS without pure sine wave, I'll take the UPS every time.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on February 21, 2019, 01:02:52 pm
Just tested my UPS under load - basically the same load that would apply at a show. I actually used my usual equipment as I couldn't find anything to substitute.
When I disconnected the mains supply, the meter showed 19 minutes estimated battery run time. I kept checking the display time and I noticed it counted down more slowly than actual minutes run to start but then the countdown started to quicken. Finally once it was depleted down to what was shown as 4 minutes run time left which caused the alarm to start going off, it had actually run for 21 minutes 33 seconds. Not bad considering I got this UPS from Costco for $89 from memory.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Pete Erskine on February 21, 2019, 01:44:17 pm

I have an APC 1500 for my home network and Unity Intercom server.  The wall box for my FIOS  service has a built in UPS.  Twice since I have moved here, the FIOS network has told me over the TV screen to click OK to replace the 12v battery... a few days later a new battery shows up and I installed it in the wall box and shipped the old one back.

At least once a month there is a short interruption in power and everything hums along (had one at 9 am today!)   Last year The power company shut off service for repairs and 4 hours later restored it.  Since my ups is only loaded to 19% it lasted the entire time.   Worth every penny since I was out of town.  I get text notices when power is off.

On shows I always use ups, mostly Triplet, for equipment which has a long boot time.  Riedel, Freespeak, Helixnet, and every intercom panel on the show.  Several times in my carrier having UPS on the comm system has been fortuitous.  At least the SM can still talk...

Here's a shot of my FIOS fiber box and the server rack.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Bob Stone on February 21, 2019, 01:53:21 pm
Maybe not for the big shows where you've got a flown array and racks and racks of amps...but I wonder how practical it would be to keep a couple of FOH tops on UPS's for smaller shows. Would sure be nice if the venue power kicked out and you could still make announcements. Maybe throw in a few LED PAR's on that as emergency lights too.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on February 21, 2019, 01:58:27 pm
Maybe not for the big shows where you've got a flown array and racks and racks of amps...but I wonder how practical it would be to keep a couple of FOH tops on UPS's for smaller shows. Would sure be nice if the venue power kicked out and you could still make announcements. Maybe throw in a few LED PAR's on that as emergency lights too.

It is quite common in installs to have a portion of the sound systems amplification on an emergency generator (HF/MF, no subs)  and an even smaller subset of the amplifiers on UPS's as well.  So that when the emergency generator doesn't kick in you can still make some sort of announcement.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Dave Garoutte on February 21, 2019, 04:24:05 pm
Cool,
if you can't solve the problem in 20 minutes, the crowd will leave anyway. :o
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Pete Erskine on February 21, 2019, 06:41:15 pm
For the Rio Olympics, Riedel Communications did the comm and radio system.  It was 100% backed up including the 40+ high power radio repeaters and simplex radios.
Title: Re: UPS Backup Supply - What's your choice?
Post by: Michael Storey on February 21, 2019, 08:23:34 pm
FWIW, it's been my experience that some of the cheap UPS systems that utilize "standby" or "line interactive" topology don't play along well with generators. If you're on generator power often, I'd suggest you purchase an "online/double conversion" UPS, as they seem to be immune to fluctuations in voltage and frequency.

Here's a link to a discussion last year on the subject.

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,166894.20.html (https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,166894.20.html)