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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Matthias McCready on February 13, 2019, 11:16:47 pm

Title: Behringer S16 Not Passing Audio
Post by: Matthias McCready on February 13, 2019, 11:16:47 pm
One of the churches that I work at has a Behringer X32 with two S16 stage racks.

It was bought and installed a few months prior to my hire, the equipment is less than a year old.

---

This week one of the stage racks has been acting up. I have witnessed this once, however as the musicians had arrived late (and I had not yet understood the scope of the issue) I was unfortunately only focused on resolving the issue rather than capturing details. It has occurred twice more while another audio engineer has been there since, they also have not been able to get me any details.

It is the second rack in the chain (coming from port B on the first rack to port A). When the rack is not working it does not pass any audio in or out, although it is visibly powered up. I have not seen this issue in any of the threads I have read.

I also have not been able to see if the X32 shows the rack as being connected or not.

 I have read the complete ESD thread and I do not believe this to be the issue, as it does not resolve itself and is not a temporary drop out. I will note that the RJ45 cable does not have Ethercon connectors and I am not aware if the cable is shielded (or of reputable quality), I will investigate, although even if it is not the issue a better cable is in order (it has been on my long list of things to upgrade/address). Although if it was a cable issue I would presume that it would be small jumper cable running between the racks.

I have been unable to recreate this problem outside of my one exprience. I have been able to rectify the problem by power cycling the stage racks (not the X32) and I did not change any routing or the scene. I would thereby presume it is not related to routing or the scene itself (although I will grab a copy of the current scene next time I am in and upload it).

Console is 3.08, I understand 3.09 is out but that it only addressed an issue with a PEQ glitch, I will update it next time I am in.

Things I do not yet know:

1) Does the X32 show the second rack as being disconnected when it is non-functional?

2) Is the problem intermittent (it could happen anytime) or does it simply occur upon powering up?

3) The firmware version of the stage racks.

Possible Issues (as I see them):

1) Connection problem: Is the jumper between the two racks at fault?

2) Faulty Rack, not confidence inspiring for being less than a year old, granted I have had my Digico racks acting up on me at another venue I work this last week too!  ::)  ???

What other questions should I be asking and has any one had this type of issue with an S16?

Thanks

Matthias
Title: Re: Behringer S16 Not Passing Audio
Post by: Dave Garoutte on February 14, 2019, 02:54:55 am
First thing I would do is swap the order of the racks to see if the problem moves to the other rack or stays with the first one.
Title: Re: Behringer S16 Not Passing Audio
Post by: Robert Lofgren on February 14, 2019, 07:09:31 am
Also, check the power cord so that it hasnít come slightly loose and glitches.
Title: Re: Behringer S16 Not Passing Audio
Post by: Scott Olewiler on February 14, 2019, 10:27:56 am
You have tried rebooting the the S16, right? 
Title: Re: Behringer S16 Not Passing Audio
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on February 14, 2019, 10:39:57 am
I occasionally work at an install where an SD16 just stopped powering up. Luckily I had a spare at the shop. Itís a Behringer after all.
Title: Re: Behringer S16 Not Passing Audio
Post by: Justin Waters on February 14, 2019, 11:18:21 am
We had a similar issue in our church, although we are only using 1 S16.  Turned out to be the network cable.  I think in the routing tab somewhere you can see the S16 connection.  If that is dropping in and out I would guess network cable.
Title: Re: Behringer S16 Not Passing Audio
Post by: Steve Oldridge on February 14, 2019, 11:54:15 am
One of the churches that I work at has a Behringer X32 with two S16 stage racks.

It was bought and installed a few months prior to my hire, the equipment is less than a year old.

---

This week one of the stage racks has been acting up. I have witnessed this once, however as the musicians had arrived late (and I had not yet understood the scope of the issue) I was unfortunately only focused on resolving the issue rather than capturing details. It has occurred twice more while another audio engineer has been there since, they also have not been able to get me any details.

It is the second rack in the chain (coming from port B on the first rack to port A). When the rack is not working it does not pass any audio in or out, although it is visibly powered up. I have not seen this issue in any of the threads I have read.

I also have not been able to see if the X32 shows the rack as being connected or not.

 I have read the complete ESD thread and I do not believe this to be the issue, as it does not resolve itself and is not a temporary drop out. I will note that the RJ45 cable does not have Ethercon connectors and I am not aware if the cable is shielded (or of reputable quality), I will investigate, although even if it is not the issue a better cable is in order (it has been on my long list of things to upgrade/address). Although if it was a cable issue I would presume that it would be small jumper cable running between the racks.

I have been unable to recreate this problem outside of my one exprience. I have been able to rectify the problem by power cycling the stage racks (not the X32) and I did not change any routing or the scene. I would thereby presume it is not related to routing or the scene itself (although I will grab a copy of the current scene next time I am in and upload it).

Console is 3.08, I understand 3.09 is out but that it only addressed an issue with a PEQ glitch, I will update it next time I am in.

Things I do not yet know:

1) Does the X32 show the second rack as being disconnected when it is non-functional?

2) Is the problem intermittent (it could happen anytime) or does it simply occur upon powering up?

3) The firmware version of the stage racks.

Possible Issues (as I see them):

1) Connection problem: Is the jumper between the two racks at fault?

2) Faulty Rack, not confidence inspiring for being less than a year old, granted I have had my Digico racks acting up on me at another venue I work this last week too!  ::)  ???

What other questions should I be asking and has any one had this type of issue with an S16?

Thanks

Matthias
Recently had this issue at my church.   Similar config. Turned out that the S16 had "somehow" been placed into a different "operating mode", where it no longer had the in/outs routed/performing as intended.
So.. it MIGHT actually bn passing audio, just not via the channels you have connected or expect it to. :)

Look up the OM.. there are like 10 modes..   Check the mode of the working unit and make sure the 2nd one is close or identical
Can't advise as to which mode you SHOULD be on as I'm not familiar with your config and what your XLR/Ultranet settings ought to be.
This fixed it for us!
Title: Re: Behringer S16 Not Passing Audio
Post by: Matthias McCready on February 14, 2019, 07:30:05 pm
First an update:

The other engineer ran into this issue again last night, however this time with a twist. It was passing audio input, but not output. Previously it has not been passing any audio in or out when it is acting up.

Also it has been confirmed that during the problems the X32 is showing the device as being connected, this would make me think A) it is powered B) both cables are working... (although you cannot be too careful!)

First thing I would do is swap the order of the racks to see if the problem moves to the other rack or stays with the first one.

I will try this tomorrow morning

You have tried rebooting the the S16, right? 

This is what fixes the issue if it is acting up when turned on. Again it does not do this all of the time.

I occasionally work at an install where an SD16 just stopped powering up. Luckily I had a spare at the shop. Itís a Behringer after all.


I have similar sentiments, however it is odd to me that the rack seems to be powered up and is showing up on the console...  ???

Recently had this issue at my church.   Similar config. Turned out that the S16 had "somehow" been placed into a different "operating mode", where it no longer had the in/outs routed/performing as intended.

Look up the OM.. there are like 10 modes..   Check the mode of the working unit and make sure the 2nd one is close or identical
This fixed it for us!

This could be a likely culprit however I do not understand how the OM would change via power cycling, as rebooting the rack seems to fix the issue.

Thanks for all the replies, this has been helpful. I will be in dealing with it tomorrow.

 I have a console upgrade in the works for next years budget (several steps up) and I am really hoping not to have to allocate budget towards more Behringer equipment or any system which would be sidestep, as that would delay next years plans!

If worse comes to worst there is a 40 channel analog snake in the back room. Unfortunately, the guy who sold them the Behringer equipment was quite pushy and not as honest as would be hoped. He sold them a console which was a definite side step (downgrade?) from their previous one, stage racks that added no value (as there was a large snake) and a UPS which apparently died a week after it was purchased! It is frustrating when individuals push products that they get a cut in, rather than determining what the customer needs and when there is zero customer followup. It is what it is.

Matthias
Title: Re: Behringer S16 Not Passing Audio
Post by: Russell Ault on February 14, 2019, 07:52:51 pm
The other engineer ran into this issue again last night, however this time with a twist. It was passing audio input, but not output. Previously it has not been passing any audio in or out when it is acting up.

This to me screams "bad cable". My recollection of AES50 is that it passes audio headed in different directions on different pairs, so ouputs failing but not inputs sounds like a bad cable. Either way, you've said you're using a cable that's been known by others to cause problems (no EtherCON, etc.), so I'd make swapping that out a top priority.

Incidentally, when jumping between two S16s in the same rack, I'd suggest using at least a 1m long cable, give or take. While Ethernet doesn't specify a minimum cable length, my understanding is that cables shorter than 1m are tricky to build in a way that complies with the Ethernet specs.

-Russ
Title: Re: Behringer S16 Not Passing Audio
Post by: Matthias McCready on February 15, 2019, 03:01:52 am
This to me screams "bad cable". My recollection of AES50 is that it passes audio headed in different directions on different pairs, so ouputs failing but not inputs sounds like a bad cable. Either way, you've said you're using a cable that's been known by others to cause problems (no EtherCON, etc.), so I'd make swapping that out a top priority.

Incidentally, when jumping between two S16s in the same rack, I'd suggest using at least a 1m long cable, give or take. While Ethernet doesn't specify a minimum cable length, my understanding is that cables shorter than 1m are tricky to build in a way that complies with the Ethernet specs.

-Russ

That makes sense. I have a plethora of Ethercon cables at my shop, so I will bring some in to test while I am at the church tomorrow. Thanks for the explanation and suggestion.