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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => AC Power and Grounding => Topic started by: Lee Douglas on February 07, 2019, 09:00:39 pm

Title: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: Lee Douglas on February 07, 2019, 09:00:39 pm
This happened here in Spokane this week, presumably from aging pavement heaters. It electrocuted a guys dog, but this could have just as easily been a small child or someone slipping on the ground and completing the circuit.  Anyway, I thought it might be of interest to this forum in particular.

https://www.kxly.com/news/stray-voltage-kills-dog-walking-on-downtown-spokane-sidewalk/1005129764

 
Title: Re: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: Mike Sokol on February 08, 2019, 07:03:40 am
IIRC, a year or so ago a young girl was injured or maybe even killed from a sidewalk junction box that the city electrician had unbonded from ground on purpose. The electrician said he was tired of resetting the circuit breakers every time it rained and the junction box filled up with water.
Title: Re: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: John Fruits on February 08, 2019, 08:34:08 am
I do wonder about the poor word choice for the linked article,  especially since the poor dog wasn't a stray.....
Title: Re: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 08, 2019, 12:48:54 pm
IIRC, a year or so ago a young girl was injured or maybe even killed from a sidewalk junction box that the city electrician had unbonded from ground on purpose. The electrician said he was tired of resetting the circuit breakers every time it rained and the junction box filled up with water.

City of Salina, Kansas.  Not sure what the final outcome was but City was doing a song and dance about who was responsible for maintaining the installation that was on a city easement (sidewalk planter).
Title: Re: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on February 08, 2019, 12:57:47 pm
It seems improbable that low voltage (120-240 V) sidewalk heaters could create enough of a voltage gradient to electrocute a dog-though I suppose with wet paws in direct contact with the pavement it might not have taken much?
Title: Re: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 08, 2019, 01:01:13 pm
It seems improbable that low voltage (120-240 V) sidewalk heaters could create enough of a voltage gradient to electrocute a dog-though I suppose with wet paws in direct contact with the pavement it might not have taken much?

How conductive is dog urine?  Just guessing that the pup was doing or had done what dogs do... and if he stepped in the wet spot.

It's unfortunate for the dog and his human and very fortunate that it wasn't someone's kid.
Title: Re: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: Jason Glass on February 08, 2019, 05:14:15 pm
It seems improbable that low voltage (120-240 V) sidewalk heaters could create enough of a voltage gradient to electrocute a dog-though I suppose with wet paws in direct contact with the pavement it might not have taken much?

Heaters pull a lot of current, so it's easily possible that merely a few volts could kill a large animal that was unfortunate to complete the circuit while it was under such a load.
Title: Re: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: Craig Hauber on February 13, 2019, 09:59:11 pm
It seems improbable that low voltage (120-240 V) sidewalk heaters could create enough of a voltage gradient to electrocute a dog-though I suppose with wet paws in direct contact with the pavement it might not have taken much?
Never heard of a "sidewalk heater"  is is something buried in the slab?
Around here that would have to be one serious heater -and it would cause ice buildup around it when any runoff from the heated area hit the -20F not heated area.

As an aside, does anybody know if ice is conductive?
Title: Re: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: Chris Hindle on February 14, 2019, 08:38:12 am
Never heard of a "sidewalk heater"  is is something buried in the slab?
Around here that would have to be one serious heater -and it would cause ice buildup around it when any runoff from the heated area hit the -20F not heated area.

As an aside, does anybody know if ice is conductive?
Hi Craig.
Up here in the Great White North, Montreal division, a plan was floated a couple of years back for putting sidewalk heaters in the slab while doing a re-model of a major downtown street. (Keeping in mind that these things are usually done by the lowest bidder..)
The idea was finally shelved due to a bit of research of other cities that had done it in the past.  It consumed a but-load of electricity, and seemed to work nice for 2 or 3 seasons before starting to break down. You really want to bust up a sidewalk to replace an element ? No, I didn't think so.
Actually, I'm kinda surprised. Our current administratin is quite car/bike friendly, and anti-car.
Chris.
Title: Re: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on February 14, 2019, 11:35:36 am
The driveway out of Fire Station #1 in my town has a large and long heated pad. The main boiler for the large municipal building, of which the fire station is a part, supplies the heat for the pipes in the pad. No electrical elements to burn out and replace.
Title: Re: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on February 14, 2019, 12:56:20 pm
The driveway out of Fire Station #1 in my town has a large and long heated pad. The main boiler for the large municipal building, of which the fire station is a part, supplies the heat for the pipes in the pad. No electrical elements to burn out and replace.
Just pipes to leak...

I hope they are pushing anti-freeze if/when the heat is off.

JR
Title: Re: Stray voltage kills dog
Post by: Keith Broughton on February 14, 2019, 02:12:48 pm
I do wonder about the poor word choice for the linked article,  especially since the poor dog wasn't a stray.....
Those "stray voltages" wander around the city looking for trouble.
It's shocking... ;D

As for sidewalk heaters, we lived in an apartment building  in Toronto,and the ramp from the underground garage was heated.
It doesn't take much to melt the ice or snow.

We have 2 floors in our current house that are electrically heated and the controller has a GFCI function that can be easily tested.