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Title: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Nathan Morefield on January 28, 2019, 01:12:45 pm
I think I may have this worked out in my head but would love a sanity check and/or other ideas. 

My band is playing a St. Patrick's Day event where we'll be on a patio playing for about 150 people.  The pub also wants to have our music coming over their PA system inside.  When I say PA system, I mean a bunch of small crappy speakers in the ceiling that usually has background music or "Smith, party of 6, your table is ready" type announcements. 

I'll need to run a XLR into their system of the whole band, but we usually don't put drums or bass through our PA for gigs. 

So I'm figuring I mic up the drums, take a DI on the bass, and set up an AUX mix of the whole band to send into their system and then we just mix ourselves through our boxes the way we usually would?

Am I thinking about that correctly?

On the drums, would a snare, kick and OH be sufficient?

Thanks. 
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Steve Ferreira on January 28, 2019, 01:16:05 pm
What mixer are you using? If you have Matrix outs i would go that route before sending each individual channel to an aux.
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Nathan Morefield on January 28, 2019, 01:18:28 pm
What mixer are you using? If you have Matrix outs i would go that route before sending each individual channel to an aux.

It's a Soundcraft Signature 16 so no matrix outs. 
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: lindsay Dean on January 28, 2019, 01:44:09 pm
If they're set on  sending
 A mix to their system  I'd put a pretty aggressive high pass filter & limiting on that send
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Nathan Morefield on January 28, 2019, 01:51:38 pm
If they're set on  sending
 A mix to their system  I'd put a pretty aggressive high pass filter & limiting on that send

That makes sense, Thanks.  I could make that happen in my studio but don't have that gear for the field.  Crap, this may suck a little worse than I thought it might.
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: lindsay Dean on January 28, 2019, 02:03:16 pm
One other thing if the rest of the restaurant is within earshot IE the same room/ area you have to apply a delay or you would have quite a noticeable weird slap Echo effect as well.
 Good times😳
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Len Zenith Jr on January 28, 2019, 02:15:04 pm
You will also want an isolating transformer between your rig and theirs.
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Nathan Morefield on January 28, 2019, 02:18:55 pm
You will also want an isolating transformer between your rig and theirs.

OMG, I may just cancel this gig.... :-\

Seriously, the  manager their says bands "do it all the time" and I'm quite certain none of them have any more advanced gear or knowledge than we do.  We may just plug in and hope for the best...
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: duane massey on January 28, 2019, 02:19:30 pm
Alternative choice: use a single "room mic" and send only that to the inside. Should work just as well as a live recording on a phone. Place it where it will pickup the PA as well as the over-all stage sound.
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: lindsay Dean on January 28, 2019, 02:24:49 pm
If managers okay with it,use the blow and go method.
 just have him send a waiver for you to sign that says you're not responsible for smoking the ceiling speakers or the overall fidelity.
Good to go👍
 


Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Mike Caldwell on January 28, 2019, 02:28:04 pm
That makes sense, Thanks.  I could make that happen in my studio but don't have that gear for the field.  Crap, this may suck a little worse than I thought it might.

You will want to high pass and limit, you want to assume they don't have an adequate high pass on their system.
Their system could be a grease covered old Bogen amp back in the kitchen or a fancy DSP controlled matrix zone system.

Go check it out ahead of time to see what kind of and where the inputs are located. When I say what kind I mean the connector type, balanced or unbalanced, mic or line level.
Chances are no one there will have a clue.

What extra parts and pieces of equipment do you have laying around?
An old analog crossover could be used for a high pass filter, some EQ's also had/have a variable high pass filter on them.
A very basic DSP would do it all.

You will also want transformer isolation on the audio line between
your system and theirs.
A passive direct box could be used in reverse to get you into an unbalance input and that would give the isolation at the same time.

An inline XLR barrel pad of something around 30db maybe needed if their input your dealing with is mic level.

Let me add, don't worry about micing the drums, an overhead mic will be all you need at the most.


Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: lindsay Dean on January 28, 2019, 02:29:47 pm
I think somebody said that in an earlier post, not sure who though
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Len Zenith Jr on January 28, 2019, 02:30:47 pm
OMG, I may just cancel this gig.... :-\

Seriously, the  manager their says bands "do it all the time" and I'm quite certain none of them have any more advanced gear or knowledge than we do.  We may just plug in and hope for the best...

Something like an art DTI (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DTI--art-dti-2-channel-hum-eliminator) is inexpensive and solves all sorts of problems. Good to have in your kit anyways.
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Travis_Valois on January 28, 2019, 02:34:46 pm
If they're set on  sending
 A mix to their system  I'd put a pretty aggressive high pass filter & limiting on that send
+1

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Mike Caldwell on January 28, 2019, 02:36:20 pm
I think somebody said that in an earlier post, not sure who though

I was more or less quoting what he replied to your post with to reinforce what you said and throw out some other ideas.
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Nathan Morefield on January 28, 2019, 03:54:12 pm
Alternative choice: use a single "room mic" and send only that to the inside. Should work just as well as a live recording on a phone. Place it where it will pickup the PA as well as the over-all stage sound.

This may work.  And the price is right too!  :)
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Scott Slater on January 29, 2019, 08:48:54 am
When using an aux mix set it to POST fader.  That way the aux mix will follow your main mix without you having to manage to the aux mix nearly as much throughout the night.
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: David Smeaton on January 29, 2019, 09:03:11 am
I would agree that a single overhead on the drums will be more than enough.  With the band I play in, we vary rarely ever mic the drums as we play at volumes that don't need it.  However, I have a single overhead (a cheap Rode NT-3) for my in ears and it works really well. 
Title: Re: Small Band Setup - Sending full mix to restaurant speakers?
Post by: Nathan Morefield on January 29, 2019, 01:12:13 pm
I would agree that a single overhead on the drums will be more than enough.  With the band I play in, we vary rarely ever mic the drums as we play at volumes that don't need it.  However, I have a single overhead (a cheap Rode NT-3) for my in ears and it works really well.

I actually have a NT3 which I might use for this application.  That's a good suggestion. 

Again, we won't be putting drums through our PA just sending it off to be piped into the restaurant.  It's going to be background music for about 500 drunk St. Patrick's party goers so it certainly doesn't have to be a perfect mix.  Maybe just enough to motivate them to come out onto the patio to party with us.