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Title: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Weogo Reed on January 28, 2019, 12:03:24 pm
Hi Folks,

Even with lube, getting 12ga wire in a Powercon True 1 plug is snug.
Most 12ga SJO I have found is about .43" diameter.
Do you know of anything a bit smaller?

Thanks and good health,  Weogo
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Ed Hall on January 28, 2019, 01:22:56 pm
I have about 200 feet in various lengths with True1 connectors, all 12/3 SJ connecting to OA Windsor boxes.
I知 a small one man operation and have never seen an AHJ at any events I致e done. Knowing that SO is code, I知 competing with operators that use 16/3 green and orange big box extension cords and plastic power strips.
IIRC Mike Sokol has spoken with Neutrik and asked about having the True1 opened up to accept 12/3 SO and they have no interest in doing that.
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Weogo Reed on January 29, 2019, 11:11:20 am
Hi Ed,

Thanks for the comments!

I'm wondering how effective it would be put them in a vise and
ream them out with some drill bits...

Thanks and good health,  Weogo
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Rob Spence on January 29, 2019, 02:37:13 pm
Hi Ed,

Thanks for the comments!

I'm wondering how effective it would be put them in a vise and
ream them out with some drill bits...

Thanks and good health,  Weogo

I took a Dremel with router bit to the larger strain relief of conventional Powercons to fit 12/3 SOOW awhile ago.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: frank kayser on January 29, 2019, 02:38:23 pm
Hi Ed,

Thanks for the comments!

I'm wondering how effective it would be put them in a vise and
ream them out with some drill bits...

Thanks and good health,  Weogo


MAYBE 12ga SJO, definitely not SOOW or SEOOW.
 
I tried using a tapered 5/8 reamer on the bushings to fit the 12 SEOOW. Coming through the "top" I couldn't get past the wipe.  Inside, I did not fare much better.  The bushing spins one way, locks the other.  No joy in Mudville removing the bush either.


With 20a contacts, male and female that mate, and hot make/break, these looked to be a real upgrade from the original Powercons.  I would like to know what they were thinking when designed.  Realistically, a new screw-top/bush could make them viable in the US.
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: frank kayser on January 29, 2019, 02:39:16 pm
I took a Dremel with router bit to the larger strain relief of conventional Powercons to fit 12/3 SOOW awhile ago.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Hmmm...
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Bryan Hargrave on January 29, 2019, 02:58:26 pm
Super successful with SJOOW 12/3. I Take the connector apart and get rid of the white strain relief and terminal assembly. Put the connector back together enough to not lock the clip ring. Sprinkle my cable generously with Gold Bond powder. Push and twist. They slide on with no issue. Then take the locking assembly off and install per usual.

SOOW... good luck doing it without removing some part of the yellow boot.

In terms of code... I've only ever heard that SJ isn't code from other techs. I was led to believe after asking a cable supplier that that info was myth. SJ  is good up to 300 volts and is equally oil resistant and heat resistant.

Hi Folks,

Even with lube, getting 12ga wire in a Powercon True 1 plug is snug.
Most 12ga SJO I have found is about .43" diameter.
Do you know of anything a bit smaller?

Thanks and good health,  Weogo
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Weogo Reed on January 29, 2019, 03:28:35 pm
Hi Bryan,

To clarify, on final assembly you did put the white strain relief back in place?
In the past, with large and/or multiple cables in Speakons, I have removed a bit of the strain relief for a good fit.

Thanks and good health,  Weogo
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Bryan Hargrave on January 29, 2019, 03:54:40 pm
The white goes back in. I just find that putting the back shell on with the latch assembly on keeps the yellow boot from popping out of the back shell.  Once I get the back shell on I pull off the latching assembly and put together the connector together as Neutrik intends.

Hi Bryan,

To clarify, on final assembly you did put the white strain relief back in place?
In the past, with large and/or multiple cables in Speakons, I have removed a bit of the strain relief for a good fit.

Thanks and good health,  Weogo
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Ed Hall on January 29, 2019, 06:27:01 pm
Like I said, all of my True1 cables are 12/3 SJ. No way I知 getting SO in there. They assembled fairly easily with just a bit of olive oil to get the yellow rubber seal on the cable.   

I disassembled the cap, slid the black piece on, the locking ring, the yellow rubber seal piece then reassembled that. Slid the white strain relief on and then connected the conductors. Everything then slid together with little effort.

I believe the NEC calls for extra hard service (SO) for anything that is in an area where it is  possible to receive physical damage. Like a stage where it can be walked on or rolled over by a 300# amp rack.  Hard service (SJ) can be used where physical damage is not likely. Like in a truss to power lighting etc.

I知 a one man operation and small enough that I致e never seen and AHJ. If I grow in a few years (after retiring from the day job) and take on bigger work then I know I値l have to replace my power with SO.
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Weogo Reed on January 29, 2019, 07:36:07 pm
Hi Folks,

FYI

Just noticed that the original True 1 connectors are being phased out, with the
True 1 TOP outdoor rated version taking their place.

Thanks and good health, Weogo
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Andrew Broughton on January 29, 2019, 07:52:31 pm
Ratings and diameters are the same for both.


Quote
True1 TOP:
UL 498 / CSA C22.2 No. 182.3
250 V ac / 20 A
SJTOW, SJOOW 3 x 12 AWG
White chuck 6.0 - 12.0 mm

True1:
UL 498 / CSA C22.2 No. 182.3
250 V ac / 20 A
SJTOW, SJOOW 3 x 12 AWG
White chuck 6.0 - 12.0 mm
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: jason misterka on January 29, 2019, 07:58:20 pm
Hi Folks,

FYI

Just noticed that the original True 1 connectors are being phased out, with the
True 1 TOP outdoor rated version taking their place.

Thanks and good health, Weogog

Do these mate with regular True 1?  If not, YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME.

Sorry to yell at the messanger.

Jason
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 29, 2019, 09:41:30 pm
Super successful with SJOOW 12/3. I Take the connector apart and get rid of the white strain relief and terminal assembly. Put the connector back together enough to not lock the clip ring. Sprinkle my cable generously with Gold Bond powder. Push and twist. They slide on with no issue. Then take the locking assembly off and install per usual.

SOOW... good luck doing it without removing some part of the yellow boot.

In terms of code... I've only ever heard that SJ isn't code from other techs. I was led to believe after asking a cable supplier that that info was myth. SJ  is good up to 300 volts and is equally oil resistant and heat resistant.

I suggest you read NEC 520 and 525 and their references to 400.  "Junior hard service" cable has the "J", "Hard service" does not have the J.  My understanding that the primary concern of the Code authors is the physically robust construction of Extra Hard Usage cordage better suits it to use on stages, on the ground, etc. where it will be subject to abrasion, foot traffic and various other hazards.

SJxxx is permitted to be used in certain assemblies (fan-outs from multi pin connectors, and 2-fers, mostly) because they are typically used on battens or trusses and less subject to physical abuse.
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Matthew Knischewsky on January 29, 2019, 11:07:50 pm
I suggest you read NEC 520 and 525 and their references to 400.  "Junior hard service" cable has the "J", "Hard service" does not have the J.  My understanding that the primary concern of the Code authors is the physically robust construction of Extra Hard Usage cordage better suits it to use on stages, on the ground, etc. where it will be subject to abrasion, foot traffic and various other hazards.

SJxxx is permitted to be used in certain assemblies (fan-outs from multi pin connectors, and 2-fers, mostly) because they are typically used on battens or trusses and less subject to physical abuse.

In Canada, and specifically in the province of Ontario SJ cable is used often for general purpose AC cable on the ground. And it holds up very well. It's not like we're replacing SJ cables after a few gigs or even a few years. Any location where physical damage could occur (running near a door for example or in a high traffic area) should be protected by some other means.

I don't mean to contradict the NEC and if adopted it should be followed in that jurisdiction. My experience with SJ is that it's robust enough to stand up to the day to day usage that we require of it as audio providers.
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Russell Ault on January 30, 2019, 02:12:56 am
In Canada, and specifically in the province of Ontario SJ cable is used often for general purpose AC cable on the ground. And it holds up very well. It's not like we're replacing SJ cables after a few gigs or even a few years. Any location where physical damage could occur (running near a door for example or in a high traffic area) should be protected by some other means.

I don't mean to contradict the NEC and if adopted it should be followed in that jurisdiction. My experience with SJ is that it's robust enough to stand up to the day to day usage that we require of it as audio providers.

This came up on the Power forum a couple years ago. The CEC is similar to the NEC, but the wording on SJ vs. S in theatres is much less restrictive. In Canada it's something along the lines that you basically only need S if you think a forklift might drive over it, and SJ is okay everywhere else. Definitely not what the NEC says...

-Russ
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Bryan Hargrave on January 30, 2019, 10:43:50 am
Tim,

Thanks for the reference. It's always nice to have an actual piece of info instead of conflicting hearsay.

I suggest you read NEC 520 and 525 and their references to 400.  "Junior hard service" cable has the "J", "Hard service" does not have the J.  My understanding that the primary concern of the Code authors is the physically robust construction of Extra Hard Usage cordage better suits it to use on stages, on the ground, etc. where it will be subject to abrasion, foot traffic and various other hazards.

SJxxx is permitted to be used in certain assemblies (fan-outs from multi pin connectors, and 2-fers, mostly) because they are typically used on battens or trusses and less subject to physical abuse.
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Russell Ault on January 30, 2019, 03:16:18 pm
Thanks for the reference. It's always nice to have an actual piece of info instead of conflicting hearsay.

For the Canadians following this, this is what the (22nd edition, which is all I have in front of me, although it's a little out of date) CEC has to say on theatre cabling:

Quote
44-354 Flexible conductors for portable equipment
Conductors for arc lamps, bunches, or other portable equipment shall be flexible cord types suitable for extra-hard usage, [...] but for separate miscellaneous portable devices operated under conditions where the conductors are not exposed to severe mechanical injury, flexible cord types suitable for other than hard usage [...] shall be permitted to be used.

Heck, looks like we can use lamp cord up here...

-Russ
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 30, 2019, 03:24:54 pm
For the Canadians following this, this is what the (22nd edition, which is all I have in front of me, although it's a little out of date) CEC has to say on theatre cabling:

Heck, looks like we can use lamp cord up here...

-Russ

You can.  I've worked with set pieces with lights, built in Canada, that were wired with #16 vinyl lamp cord to stage pin connector.
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Michael Lascuola on February 01, 2019, 11:50:58 am
Here's the method I've used:
https://youtu.be/jPwZQwTk6Eo
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Ed Hall on February 04, 2019, 01:38:07 pm
Here's the method I've used:
https://youtu.be/jPwZQwTk6Eo

I had always learned that tinning ends that will be in compression fitting was a bad idea. The solder creeps over time and the connection becomes loose. If stray strands is a concern, they make copper sleeves or ferrules for that. 
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: John Koepke Jr. on February 04, 2019, 02:23:39 pm
Do these mate with regular True 1?  If not, YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME.

Sorry to yell at the messanger.

Jason

While at NAMM I did see these new connectors and talked to a rep.  They do mate to the original connectors.  They also fixed a design flaw that caused the clip to pop-off and a few other things.  I didn't even think to ask about if it will accept 12g SOOW.
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Michael Lascuola on February 04, 2019, 06:24:28 pm
I had always learned that tinning ends that will be in compression fitting was a bad idea. The solder creeps over time and the connection becomes loose.
I've heard that recently as well, but no issues thus far.  I guess old habits die hard :|
Title: Re: 12ga wire for Powercon True 1
Post by: Geoff Doane on February 05, 2019, 05:03:53 pm
I've heard that recently as well, but no issues thus far.  I guess old habits die hard :|

Keep checking for hot plugs! (To be fair, you only tinned the ends, but why temp fate?)

GTD