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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Lighting Forum => Topic started by: Eleanor Saitta on August 20, 2018, 09:51:26 am

Title: Color mixing on reflection in RGBW pinspots
Post by: Eleanor Saitta on August 20, 2018, 09:51:26 am
Hi!

I run a small private venue in Helsinki, and I've got a few RGBW pinspots bounced off a mirrorball.  Unfortunately, in the reflection, you can pretty clearly see the LED elements, instead of getting a single, uniform color.  I had the ADJ Saber Spots in, and I've just swapped them for the Cameo Q-Spots, which are better but still not great.  Is there anything on the market in a relatively cheap (<200, ideally) RGBW pinspot that actually does proper color blending?
Title: Re: Color mixing on reflection in RGBW pinspots
Post by: Eleanor Saitta on August 20, 2018, 10:31:49 am
(I'm happy to hear suggestions about ways to tweak the lights I've got so they reflect more cleanly, but short of opening them up and shoving a bit of diffuser between the LED chip and the optics, I don't think there's that might to be done)
Title: Re: Color mixing on reflection in RGBW pinspots
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on August 20, 2018, 11:28:15 am
short of opening them up and shoving a bit of diffuser between the LED chip and the optics

That was going to be one of my suggestions and it might just work well enough for you, the other would be to buy white only spots and mount an old school motorized color wheel in front of it. To that end a better option might be some cheap chinese moving head beams, that gives you DMX control over everything.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MOQ-1-PC-60w-LED-Moving-Head-Spot-Light-With-Free-Shipping-Beam-Moving-head/32722219477.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.184.46b959d2JvuZQ4&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_10151_10344_10068_10130_10342_10547_10343_10340_10341_10548_10696_10084_5724015_10083_10618_10139_5724315_10307_5724215_5724115_10059_5013715_100031_5725015_10103_5724915_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620_5013815,searchweb201603_45,ppcSwitch_7&algo_expid=e7ef4e3f-d2c8-425f-ae6d-72a70f8c46c3-29&algo_pvid=e7ef4e3f-d2c8-425f-ae6d-72a70f8c46c3&transAbTest=ae803_2&priceBeautifyAB=0 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MOQ-1-PC-60w-LED-Moving-Head-Spot-Light-With-Free-Shipping-Beam-Moving-head/32722219477.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.184.46b959d2JvuZQ4&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_10151_10344_10068_10130_10342_10547_10343_10340_10341_10548_10696_10084_5724015_10083_10618_10139_5724315_10307_5724215_5724115_10059_5013715_100031_5725015_10103_5724915_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620_5013815,searchweb201603_45,ppcSwitch_7&algo_expid=e7ef4e3f-d2c8-425f-ae6d-72a70f8c46c3-29&algo_pvid=e7ef4e3f-d2c8-425f-ae6d-72a70f8c46c3&transAbTest=ae803_2&priceBeautifyAB=0)
Title: Re: Color mixing on reflection in RGBW pinspots
Post by: Dave Garoutte on August 20, 2018, 12:22:17 pm
I've experienced the same thing.
I don't think there's much you can do with the lights you have.
If you diffuse them enough to blur the colors, you will reduce the brightness and sharpness of the reflection enough to defeat it's purpose.
I think you're stuck with finding other pin spots.
Title: Re: Color mixing on reflection in RGBW pinspots
Post by: Jeff Lelko on August 20, 2018, 12:41:13 pm
If you diffuse them enough to blur the colors, you will reduce the brightness and sharpness of the reflection enough to defeat it's purpose.

Exactly.  A mirror ball basically reflects an image of the light you shine into it, which is why you're not seeing mixed colors in the beams reflected off the ball.  You can try a bit of light diffusion, but it's going to be a compromise.  The old school approach is to just use difference colored pinspots for each color you want.  The 90s approach is to use an intelligent light with a color wheel (which can be had pretty cheap these days).  By the 2000s CMY wasn't that much to ask for.  2010?  Point a Showgun at it and call it a day.  And now the approach is to either do as you've done with LED and call it good enough or pull on a solution from the past.  My vote is for a cheap moving light with a color wheel.  Additive mixing won't help you here.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Color mixing on reflection in RGBW pinspots
Post by: Eleanor Saitta on August 20, 2018, 01:31:08 pm
Just for kicks, before I gave up on these, I figured I'd see what they looked like inside.  Here we go:

(https://dymaxion.org/tmp/pinspot1.jpg)

Because it was so easy to get direct access to the chip, I figured I'd try a little diffuser:

(https://dymaxion.org/tmp/pinspot2.jpg)

Turned out that since I could get it behind the lens, I actually didn't get that much more light spread after all, nor lose that much brightness:

(https://dymaxion.org/tmp/pinspotcomparison.jpg)

These have ad-hoc tophats on them, but they already needed that, because they fall off into the field far more slowly and broadly than I'd like.  With the diffuser, there's a touch more of that, but not much.  It's still not perfect in the reflection, but it's not bad it's a bit better than even this photo makes it look:

(https://dymaxion.org/tmp/pinspotpattern.jpg)

Thanks much for the suggestions!