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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Anton Antonov on August 01, 2018, 09:53:38 am

Title: Rack mixer
Post by: Anton Antonov on August 01, 2018, 09:53:38 am
Hi all!

I`m happy owner of UI16, but now I have possibility to make upgrade to more channels mixer. What I found at the moment:

1) Behringer X32 Rack + S16
32/16

2) Allen Heath QU-SB / PAC + AB168
32/16

3) Soundcraft UI24R
20XLR + 2RCA / 8

For money, UI24 turns out to be more interesting, but also 10 channels less. On the sound quality I suspect that in a blind test there will not be a difference between them. Remote controls on the ipad handles are convenient for everyone. X32, you can pick up the BCF2000 and there will be at least some physical control plus there are expansion slots.
At AH and X32 from pluses that more channels and it is possible to split and not to care stagebox with itself when it is not necessary. From memory, I have never occupied more than 24 channels. AH and X32 seemed more rider-friendly instead of UI.

What would you prefer?
Or it is worth waiting for (seemed that AH should release SQ in the rack)
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Art Nadelman on August 01, 2018, 10:30:25 am
Of the 3, I think that Behringer's iPad and PC-based interface is by far the best.  We all anticipate that there will be a rack mount A&H version of the SQ like the QU-Pac or QU-SB.  Of course, the SQ-5 is a 19" top rackmount mixer if you want to go that way today.  Not sure what your budget is, but you could also go with the Allen & Heath CDM32 and rent a console when you need one to be more rider friendly.  I don't think any of the others are rider friendly, though.
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Jay Marr on August 01, 2018, 10:52:27 am
You can also pick up the X-Touch to have physical controls of the X32.

I am a happy X32-Rack + S16 (and Midas DL16) user.
I love the apps and all my band mates control their mixes via their own devices.
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Anton Antonov on August 01, 2018, 10:59:54 am
Thanks for reply!

Budget is +/- $2000, so CDM is nice but over-budget  :)
For my budget I can find used iDR stagebox, but AH stopped support them, so no new updates ...
I also have a Expression 3 for big events, but I don`t like remote control (no custom strips, no fx tap, no mute groups, etc). In case of work from console, there is no problems except  it have only 2 full eq and LO/HI is shelf, instead of 4.

I want remote for small bands, drums, keys, guit, vox + DJ. In 90% it no more than 16 channels used, if more I will take SI Express 3

Concerning riders-friendly, most bands in my region usually works on the x32, qu24 desks, remotely with ipad, but don`t like my SI (I think just because of the remote control)
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Weogo Reed on August 01, 2018, 12:34:32 pm
Hi Anton,

Have you considered the Mackie DL32R?
I have two in local venues, and one as my main mixer.

Each unit has plusses and minuses.
For fast mixing the Mackie app works best for me.

Thanks and good health,  Weogo
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Robert Lofgren on August 01, 2018, 12:55:52 pm
I have to use the ui24 at times and it has some cool features.

However, I find it noisy compared to the x32. It also seems picky when it comes to usbstick recording and we have had more than one recording coming out bad.

But if you already like the ui16 then the ui24 might be the next logical step...

I prefer the x32, but most people here know that already, and it is an expanandable eco-system.
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Luke Geis on August 01, 2018, 01:46:09 pm
I have the Behringer X32 Rack and a Midas DL32. If you're going to go with the stage box, I would consider just getting the X32 core. The X32 Rack is pretty much going to require I-pad control ALWAYS despite the front panel controls. The panel is small and it is a little cumbersome moving around with it. I love my X32 Rack, but it is not without its headaches. Since I picked up a Midas M32R and the DL32 stage box, I have been using the X32 Rack a lot less. If I had the X32 core, I think it would make a little more sense.
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 01, 2018, 02:03:27 pm
I've been a A&H user for - it seems forever!....

I like the QU-PAC with the AB168. I am very used to the app and I can get around it fast. It might not have some of the bells and whistles that the X32 has but I have never needed anything more than it provides.
It is an easier learning curve from what I can tell if that matters.
I also like the fact that A&H have provided umpteen updates to the firmware adding more and more functions - since I made my original QU16 purchase, the QU series mixers have much more functionality that when they first came out.
A&H didn't have to do any of it but they listened to the forum community and added what they could based on the requests of users. I like that they care.

It has never let me down.
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Steve Crump on August 01, 2018, 08:15:21 pm
+1 on the A&H

Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Mal Brown on August 02, 2018, 10:28:06 am
If you let the software be your guide, the Ui-24r is a very strong contender.  If you let Sound quality be your guide, the U-24r again is a very strong contender - I am hard pressed to hear a difference between my SI Exp3 and the Ui-24r...   At a street of about $800 the UI-24r is a real value proposition.
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Anton Antonov on August 02, 2018, 11:40:01 am
Tnx for replies!

Now I finally don`t understand what prefer :)

UI24 is nice for me, ipad remote is best and great that you can work with it without ipad (if forget it at home) from iphone, but seemed I need choose between x32 and qu. Will think again ...

BTW. What difference between QU-PAC and SB?
1) No manual control from rack
2) No AES
3) ...?
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Robert Lofgren on August 02, 2018, 12:27:30 pm
I’d rather run home to get my ipad or borrow one than mixing on an iphone. The apps are free so they can be downloaded to any ios/android device.

In my x32-rack rack I’ve mounted a raspberry pi. Using this I can connect any hdmi/dvi capable monitor and control the mixer using a mouse or touchscreen.

In any case you should really consider to bring two tablets with you. I alway bring an ipad and a cheapish android tablet. It is easy to drop them and in a quick moment somebody might relieve you from your ipad.

Now I finally don`t understand what prefer :)

UI24 is nice for me, ipad remote is best and great that you can work with it without ipad (if forget it at home) from iphone, but seemed I need choose between x32 and qu. Will think again ...
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Jay Marr on August 02, 2018, 12:31:27 pm
If you let the software be your guide, the Ui-24r is a very strong contender.  If you let Sound quality be your guide, the U-24r again is a very strong contender - I am hard pressed to hear a difference between my SI Exp3 and the Ui-24r...   At a street of about $800 the UI-24r is a real value proposition.

I like the way you've stated this.
I believe all the products mentioned rank high on the sound quality, therefore I would let the software be your guide.

I have downloaded every remote/control app on my iPad and I surf through them to see how the suit the way my brain works.
There is no perfect app for all, so it is really user preference.

I LOVE the X32 app....but don't like the Mackie DL app.  There are other users who say the exact opposite.

My first step would be to try the apps and see which ones you connect with.


Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 02, 2018, 05:31:01 pm

There is no perfect app for all, so it is really user preference.

I LOVE the X32 app....but don't like the Mackie DL app.  There are other users who say the exact opposite.

My first step would be to try the apps and see which ones you connect with.

I agree - this might be the determining factor.
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Anton Antonov on August 06, 2018, 08:44:16 am
Tnx to all, finally I found good price for ui24 and bought it :)

I tried all ipad remotes and Soundcraft is the best for me, what about additional stageboxes - found at facebook, in beta version they add possibility chain two ui24, so total you will have 2x(20XLR, 2RCA, 8AUX).
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Richard Penrose on August 08, 2018, 01:32:57 pm
We all anticipate that there will be a rack mount A&H version of the SQ like the QU-Pac or QU-SB.

Yep really hoping that there will be an SQ-PAC!
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Alec Spence on August 08, 2018, 02:18:10 pm
I tried all ipad remotes and Soundcraft is the best for me, what about additional stageboxes - found at facebook, in beta version they add possibility chain two ui24, so total you will have 2x(20XLR, 2RCA, 8AUX).
The ability to chain two UI24s raises the potential value of this box quite a bit.

Previously it was like an XR18 on steroids - 4 more mic pres and the novel web based interface, but unexpandable.  Being able to join two together seamlessly gives the option of a 40 input mixer at a price competitve with an X32 rack & S16 - which still tops out at 32 mic pres.  I could never quite bring myself to love the UIs before (especially after the problems with the UI12/16), but this puts the UI24 in a whole new light...
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Stu McDoniel on August 08, 2018, 02:47:39 pm
I have a Ui24r and I love it.
Really a super work flow and a great tool.
You can record multitrack with it as well and put the unit in sound check mode and remix the multitrack recording.   Aux 1 and 2 can be used for Aux subs.  There is a HPF and LPF so you dont need an external xover.  You can assign Aux 1 and 2 to main output slider.  You can delay on just about everything.   Studer Revox mic preamps .  This unit sounds fantastic.
Also, I have first hand knowledge that the next firmware update coming very soon will enable you to cascade two UI24rs together.  This is in beta testing right now and it seems it is working very well.
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Taylor Hall on August 08, 2018, 03:47:43 pm
That's really interesting with the device linking, I wonder if we'll see other rackmount mixers follow suit. If the UI24 had Dante or AES50 support that would almost be a no-brainer. I do like their app's workflow, and the idea of 48 inputs is certainly tantalizing, but trying to manage them all on a small screen might become challenging...
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Rob Spence on August 08, 2018, 05:55:45 pm
Yep really hoping that there will be an SQ-PAC!

I don’t see why they won’t. I bet before Christmas. The software guys are trying to get 1.3 out which may have hooks for the SQ-PAC and therefore be a prerequisite.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Stu McDoniel on August 09, 2018, 10:04:57 am
That's really interesting with the device linking, I wonder if we'll see other rackmount mixers follow suit. If the UI24 had Dante or AES50 support that would almost be a no-brainer. I do like their app's workflow, and the idea of 48 inputs is certainly tantalizing, but trying to manage them all on a small screen might become challenging...
There are two RJ45 connections on the unit.  The cascade takes place with network connection.
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Taylor Hall on August 09, 2018, 10:41:23 am
There are two RJ45 connections on the unit.  The cascade takes place with network connection.

I understand that, but the UI24 itself has no onboard or expansion slot support for Dante or AES50, so you'd be relying on some sort of external Dante device and severely limiting your routing capabilities. Other rackmounts like the X32 Rack and DL32R have support for both protocols.
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Steve Oldridge on August 09, 2018, 11:02:25 am
I understand that, but the UI24 itself has no onboard or expansion slot support for Dante or AES50, so you'd be relying on some sort of external Dante device and severely limiting your routing capabilities. Other rackmounts like the X32 Rack and DL32R have support for both protocols.
That's the MAJOR impediment to my purchase of it..   no expansion capability.
When put up against the X32R, (IMHO) the Ui24R wins hands down in most areas - except expansion.
I can add SD8/16, S16/32, both local or remote and also run the P16M's from the X32.
Ui24R ??   #crickets
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Stu McDoniel on August 10, 2018, 01:17:01 pm
This is the Big D screen with V2 firmware on the Ui24R.  You can change views to inputs /Aux you name it with the push of a button.
You can run more then one screen to have all your views right there and run touchscreen.

Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Jon Brunskill on August 24, 2018, 06:47:49 am
I've just bought a ui24r, I feel like the UI is much better than the competition. . . .

But because I'm a sucker for punishment, I've also got a Behringer XR18 and a QU-SB coming for demo!

I'm going to do a gig with each over the next week or so and keep the one that I like the best. Should be fun

Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Steve Garris on August 24, 2018, 12:44:48 pm
As a Mackie DL user I had pretty much decided on the DL32 as my upgrade path, but now this Ui 24 has me rethinking it. I've seen nothing but great reviews on this mixer, and the price is right. The iPad work flow seems very similar to what I'm used to which is a major point for me.
Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Mal Brown on August 25, 2018, 12:27:54 pm
Soundcraft’s  Big D UI on a 22” touch screen driven by a mid range laptop(or Bríx or NUC) is way way cool.

IMHO...  Dante and aes/beu are kinda PRO features.  Primarily needed in mega tour/ mega venue settings.  Many of the Dante option cards I see are priced about like a Ui-24...  In my eyes the UI-24 r is ‘Pro-Sumer’ more oriented to those of us in Lab Lounge but handling gigs that go beyond the typical weekend warrior. As a sound company I see myself as a ‘tweener and the ui-24r feature set and expandability being dialed for me.

For me, if Soundcraft would implement a midi-option card - or a Madi option card for the internal daughter slot, that would be eminently more useful..  but that’s me.


Title: Re: Rack mixer
Post by: Dave Garoutte on August 25, 2018, 02:43:56 pm
Please see my post in the Power/Grounding section.
I love my UI, but beware of low voltage.
Get a good, functional UPS.