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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: Michael Lascuola on June 10, 2018, 02:23:30 am

Title: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Michael Lascuola on June 10, 2018, 02:23:30 am
After 2 gigs, I am super happy with these Danley SM80s.  I am getting even, articulate sound at a reasonable volume, using relatively little power.

However, with occasional wind gusts, I am experiencing a "sail" effect, which rotates the speaker in the K&M crank stand.  I used a temp fix with gaff tape, but I'd like to see if anyone is using a more elegant solution.  Some thoughts include a grooved plastic piece on the top of the pole, or something more drastic to keep it from rotating.

Thanks!

Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Lou Kohley on June 10, 2018, 02:40:53 am
I hate to suggest an expensive solution but you can either get the K&M stands with the expanding mandrel (great band name) or get the BT-12 tilter (which is what I did)

The tilter has a screw that tightens every part that can move around. I've had my SM80s up in a theater for a little over a year on poles working at least once a week and they never move.

I'm also curious to see what Dave Garoutte's tilters end up like.

LOU
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Michael Lascuola on June 10, 2018, 03:01:45 am
Thanks for the reply!  So the "close-open" control expands and contracts the plastic parts for a snug fit?
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Callan Browne on June 10, 2018, 06:39:21 am
I tried gaff on the top of my K&M poles so the gap was nice and tight. I almost couldn't get the speaker out! Don't repeat my mistake.

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Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Michael Lascuola on June 10, 2018, 08:14:03 am
Thanks, Callan.  Yes, as heavy as the SM80s are, I wouldn't want to go there!  Because of the design, you can run tape through the bottom of the SM80, and then around the pole. If I hadn't been in a hurry, this might have been a good solution.
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Lou Kohley on June 10, 2018, 11:48:32 am
Thanks for the reply!  So the "close-open" control expands and contracts the plastic parts for a snug fit?

Michael,
That's correct. Here's the link to the 21340 model on K&M's site.
https://produkte.k-m.de/en/Speakerlighting-and-monitor-stands-and-holders/Distance-and-extension-rods/21340-Distance-rod-with-hand-crank-and-Ring-Lock-black (https://produkte.k-m.de/en/Speakerlighting-and-monitor-stands-and-holders/Distance-and-extension-rods/21340-Distance-rod-with-hand-crank-and-Ring-Lock-black)

For the same price you can get the BT-12 tilter. This adds more angle options as well as the locking feature for the same price.
http://bt-12.com/index.php (http://bt-12.com/index.php)


LOU
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 10, 2018, 02:09:28 pm
I use a method I have been doing for years - cost?... zero.

I take old plastic containers - like those that contain vinegar, oil, sauce etc and when  it is empty, I cut small pieces out of them about 3" by 1" and round off the edges to make small shims.  I get dozens from one container.
Because the container is already curved, the shape of the shims is perfect.  I take them to shows in a  baggie and once the speakers are positioned, I slot them up into the top hat positioning them at the back so they cannot be seen - usually 2 is enough. Takes a second and costs nothing. If I don't end up getting them back - oh well I gots me plenty more.......
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Michael Lascuola on June 10, 2018, 02:26:53 pm
Thanks, Lou!  I like how the K&M expands, I might order a pair on Monday.

Thanks, Debbie.  I will try your idea this weekend :)
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Steve Garris on June 10, 2018, 02:49:14 pm
Thanks, Lou!  I like how the K&M expands, I might order a pair on Monday.

Thanks, Debbie.  I will try your idea this weekend :)

I use the K&M expanding mandrel distance rods for my heavy SRX815p's. Mine are the manually height adjustable type. The expanding part works really well, and holds the speaker in place nicely.
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Dave Garoutte on June 10, 2018, 04:04:28 pm
I hate to suggest an expensive solution but you can either get the K&M stands with the expanding mandrel (great band name) or get the BT-12 tilter (which is what I did)

The tilter has a screw that tightens every part that can move around. I've had my SM80s up in a theater for a little over a year on poles working at least once a week and they never move.

I'm also curious to see what Dave Garoutte's tilters end up like.

LOU

The speaker will sit on a rubber pad on the top platform.  The post will not be quite as deep as the socket in the speaker.
There will be a pinch knob to clamp the bottom socket to the tripod.
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Lou Kohley on June 10, 2018, 04:28:48 pm
The speaker will sit on a rubber pad on the top platform.  The post will not be quite as deep as the socket in the speaker.
There will be a pinch knob to clamp the bottom socket to the tripod.

Canít wait to see them Dave.

LOU
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Michael Lascuola on June 12, 2018, 02:54:22 pm
In the meantime, here's this weekend's solution :)
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 12, 2018, 06:19:11 pm
I've used my K&M tilt adaptors just for the expanding mandrel piece but I get annoyed when manufacturers don't design fittings that protect stands and poles. ......Unlike other attachments I use ( some much less expensive), that have a piece of plastic or similar between the tightening screw and whatever it is being tightened to, the K&M does not and the screw eats into the stand and makes it look nasty. I hate that. So I end up pushing one of my little home made shims between the screw and the shaft....
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS on June 12, 2018, 06:20:24 pm
In the meantime, here's this weekend's solution :)

Go to True Value or Ace Hardware and buy a couple Rubber O-Rings the barely fit around your speaker pole.  Place them on the pokes so they just barely create friction with the speaker pole cuts when the speakers are placed on the stands.  Very inexpensive and works like a charm.
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Michael Lascuola on June 12, 2018, 06:44:13 pm
... the K&M does not and the screw eats into the stand and makes it look nasty. I hate that.
I did not realize that!  Thanks for the post.

Ryan - thanks for the O-ring idea!
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Bob Leonard on June 12, 2018, 06:52:42 pm
Cut a chunk of sponge and push it into the hole/cup. Speaker won't turn and pole won't get stuck. Sponge stays in hole ready for next use.
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: David Allred on June 12, 2018, 07:26:17 pm
Cut a chunk of sponge and push it into the hole/cup. Speaker won't turn and pole won't get stuck. Sponge stays in hole ready for next use.

Or  cut a round piece of rubber, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4 or so, glue to the top of the pole or in the speaker socket.
Maybe 1-1/4 Dia.  You need to be able to compress with your fingers slightly.
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Jeremy Young on June 12, 2018, 07:43:46 pm
I've used my K&M tilt adaptors just for the expanding mandrel piece but I get annoyed when manufacturers don't design fittings that protect stands and poles. ......Unlike other attachments I use ( some much less expensive), that have a piece of plastic or similar between the tightening screw and whatever it is being tightened to, the K&M does not and the screw eats into the stand and makes it look nasty. I hate that. So I end up pushing one of my little home made shims between the screw and the shaft....


I feel your pain Debbie!  That adapter (19674) is a cheap-stand-killer! I'm glad it's not just me.


The BT-12CL tilters I replaced them with are sooo much better, but I also have a short K&M extension pole (21360) that has the expanding mandrels at each end and it's very solid.  Locks in at both ends (sub and top).
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Stephen Kirby on June 12, 2018, 11:09:10 pm
I couldn't imagine having a set of SM-80s without having BT-12 tilters.  Since they are a conical pattern, they would almost always need to be aimed downwards.  Having an easily variable angle is just the ticket.  Nimrod actually added the top lock mechanism after a couple early users with SM-80s mentioned the speakers rotating when tilted.  They're made for each other.  Although I sure love using mine with DSRs too.
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Brian Adams on June 12, 2018, 11:17:51 pm
I have a pair of BT-12's. I used to have a pair of K&M 19674 tilters until they were stolen. The K&M were weird to adjust, they got a little stuck in certain speakers which made them hard to remove, and it's difficult to aim them once they're on the tilters since "front" changes as the angle changes. The BT-12's are amazing, and a pleasure to use every time. I can't think of anything that could be improved on them.

I'd highly recommend the BT-12's over any other tilter. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Roch Lafleur on June 13, 2018, 11:46:54 am
Another happy SM80/BT-12/K&M crank distance rods here. I had the same problem when I first got the SM80s. They would spin around sending sound either away from the front of the stage or towards the stage, sometimes creating feedback. I used gaff tape to hold them in position, then ratchet straps. My life has been much easier since the BT-12s arrived. I use them even if I don't need to tilt the speakers to prevent the spinning. They are also amazingly built tilters. They weren't cheap once I paid for shipping, duty, taxes and converted to Cdn$, but totally worth it.
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 13, 2018, 02:28:49 pm
 :D    Mine still win the lowest cost option....
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Riley Casey on June 13, 2018, 02:50:50 pm
Take out what ever plastic cap fills the end of the stand tube so that the speaker socket rests on the aluminum tube end. See Gordian Knot.
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Gilbert Medina on June 15, 2018, 02:16:01 am
I use a method I have been doing for years - cost?... zero.

I take old plastic containers - like those that contain vinegar, oil, sauce etc and when  it is empty, I cut small pieces out of them about 3" by 1" and round off the edges to make small shims.  I get dozens from one container.
Because the container is already curved, the shape of the shims is perfect.  I take them to shows in a  baggie and once the speakers are positioned, I slot them up into the top hat positioning them at the back so they cannot be seen - usually 2 is enough. Takes a second and costs nothing. If I don't end up getting them back - oh well I gots me plenty more.......
That is a great idea Debbie, I am going to try this on my 815's...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on June 15, 2018, 09:34:19 am
After 2 gigs, I am super happy with these Danley SM80s.  I am getting even, articulate sound at a reasonable volume, using relatively little power.

However, with occasional wind gusts, I am experiencing a "sail" effect, which rotates the speaker in the K&M crank stand.  I used a temp fix with gaff tape, but I'd like to see if anyone is using a more elegant solution.  Some thoughts include a grooved plastic piece on the top of the pole, or something more drastic to keep it from rotating.

Thanks!

I just crack a few Solo cups up and slide 1 or 2 pieces up in the back between pole and top. Easy to size as needed. They seem to be everywhere........   ;-)

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: How to keep tops from rotating
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 15, 2018, 09:44:25 am
That is a great idea Debbie, I am going to try this on my 815's...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

U R welcome...with all the costs associated with accessories in this business - let alone the equipment itself - you gotta love something thats free but actually works!