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Title: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Dave Batistig on June 03, 2018, 11:18:11 am
Does anyone know what rig is out with Def Leppard and Journey this summer? I saw them last night at PPG Paints arena and the PA was excellent. Just curious as to what brand PA it was.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 03, 2018, 11:47:24 am
I'm going to see them on tuesday here at PNC Arena in Raleigh so I'm hoping for a good sound. It makes a huge difference to my level of enjoyment although I am sure most people don't care.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Mark Hadman on June 04, 2018, 09:19:38 pm
Provider is Clair Global, system is an L'Acoustics, I believe.

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Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Russell Ault on June 04, 2018, 11:12:24 pm
Provider is Clair Global, system is an L'Acoustics, I believe.

Huh, I didn't realize that Clair would provided a PA that wasn't their own.

-Russ
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Chris Hindle on June 05, 2018, 08:16:19 am
Huh, I didn't realize that Clair would provided a PA that wasn't their own.

-Russ
Times, tastes, and situations change. But, the customer is always right.
Supply what the customer wants, and stay in business.
Chris.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Rick Earl on June 05, 2018, 09:18:39 am
Huh, I didn't realize that Clair would provided a PA that wasn't their own.

-Russ

Clair bought out Britannia Row, and with it their inventory, which is mostly L' Acoustic. 
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 06, 2018, 10:26:28 am
Saw the show last night and WOW !...
Super impressed with the sound for both bands - but LOUD!.
I forgot to take my ear plugs and it was tough sometimes trying to protect my hearing. As good as the sound was, I really don't think it needed to be that loud - maybe I'm getting old - LOL.

I was SO happy to hear the drums cut through - yet not dominate the mix. Vocals were loud and clear, all guitar solos came up and then backed off once done. Bass could be heard - louder in Def Leppard set but nice tone. Piano was  a bit much in the Journey set - good job he's a great player - LOL. And that Arnel Pineda... boy he's good and if I closed my eyes, it could have been Steve Perry up there in places.

Light show for Def Leppard was crazy good - bit less for Journey but nice images on the back drop screen.

Arena was quite full but I was surprised to see so many empty seats. The tickets were very expensive and if they had dropped the prices a bit that place would have been a capacity crowd... shame.

Well worth seeing the show - lots of dates still to go on the tour ( I got the T shirt- ha ha)
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Steve Ferreira on June 06, 2018, 04:05:06 pm
As good as the sound was, I really don't think it needed to be that loud - maybe I'm getting old - LOL.

If it's too loud, you're too old  :P

This tour was just here in Toronto this past weekend and I wish I could have gone to see this concert.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 06, 2018, 06:35:38 pm
One thing I liked was that there were at least a  couple of references to Steve Perry when introducing some songs that he had a part in writing.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Craig Leerman on June 06, 2018, 11:10:37 pm
Journey has always been too loud as Neil has one of the loudest stage volumes of any guitar player.  I have worked with them a few times and basically the engineer has to bring up the band around Neil so the band is always too loud for the venue.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 07, 2018, 12:08:42 am
Journey has always been too loud as Neil has one of the loudest stage volumes of any guitar player.  I have worked with them a few times and basically the engineer has to bring up the band around Neil so the band is always too loud for the venue.

Explains things - although Def Leppard were easily as loud  - if not louder.... me thinks these old school guitar players all suffer from the same problem and must all be deaf.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Steve Garris on June 09, 2018, 02:43:02 pm
Journey has always been too loud as Neil has one of the loudest stage volumes of any guitar player.  I have worked with them a few times and basically the engineer has to bring up the band around Neil so the band is always too loud for the venue.

For years AXS TV has played a Journey concert "Live from Manila" and all you can hear is Schon's guitar. I guess that explains it...
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Tim McCulloch on June 09, 2018, 03:17:29 pm
Journey has always been too loud as Neil has one of the loudest stage volumes of any guitar player.  I have worked with them a few times and basically the engineer has to bring up the band around Neil so the band is always too loud for the venue.

You haven't worked a Pat Benatar Neil Giraldo show, I take it?

Pat was on one of the early cooking shows (Mario?) and Giraldo sat in with the band, playing the commercial bumpers.  As the camera panned the audience you'd see fingers in ears and the house band grimacing.

Neil G might be the nicest guy on earth but the sonic signature of his performance mars ensemble playing and makes mixing, even in an arena, a challenge.

By far he's not the only one, though.  There are plenty of guitar-slingers that can't seem to create "my tone" without huge amounts of SPL.

I wonder if part of what they like also involves human auditory physical compression and Temporary Threshold Shift in combination with the actual sonic content of the guitar rig's output.  The human phys element would also help explain why some guitarists claim their rigs record differently than they sound live.  If nothing changes except putting the player in cans or listening via control room monitors what has changed is the player's environment, not the rig... but I digress.

The guitar is a wonderful instrument.  It can be a weapon of musical disruption or it can be a machine to kill Fascists or it can serenade your friends.  I wish it could be used in friendlier SPL ranges sometimes.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Steve Ferreira on June 11, 2018, 12:34:43 pm

The guitar is a wonderful instrument.  It can be a weapon of musical disruption or it can be a machine to kill Fascists or it can serenade your friends.  I wish it could be used in friendlier SPL ranges sometimes.

I went to a Carlos Santana concert about 2 months ago. My seats were next to FOH and when I saw the rig in the venue and said to myself "Oh boy this is going to hurt tomorrow". Best sounding concert I have been to. The FOH engineer kept levels in check and it was a great sounding mix.

I went to a Metallica concert once, LOUD is an understatement.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Stephen Kirby on June 12, 2018, 12:14:39 am
I went to a Carlos Santana concert about 2 months ago. My seats were next to FOH and when I saw the rig in the venue and said to myself "Oh boy this is going to hurt tomorrow". Best sounding concert I have been to. The FOH engineer kept levels in check and it was a great sounding mix.

I went to a Metallica concert once, LOUD is an understatement.
I know a guy who toured with Santana.  Carlos asked him to play his guitar rig at a soundcheck once.  My friend said that the Boogie rig was the loudest thing on stage that he'd ever heard and wanted to take off like crazy.

As far as modern times go, saw John Mayer in an arena.  Four 2-12 cabinets, two 100W heads and a 50W Bassman and all you could hear was the stage rig.  I don't think they had any guitar in the house.

The speakers in those Marshall stacks in the days of Hendrix and Cream were 25W apiece.  Nowadays, 150-200W per driver is easy.  Folks like Zack Wylde (who I've never seen live) have boxes full of 300W EVMs.  Capable of ridiculous stage volume.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Dave Batistig on June 12, 2018, 07:03:01 am
Journey has always been too loud as Neil has one of the loudest stage volumes of any guitar player.  I have worked with them a few times and basically the engineer has to bring up the band around Neil so the band is always too loud for the venue.

I was sitting on Neil's side of the stage, about 40 ft out and slightly up (section 101 of PPG Paints arena) and saw Neil tell the monitor tech to TURN DOWN both his IEMs and his guitar FRFR speakers on stage.

Journey was good, but Def Leppard was on a whole other level!
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Brian Bolly on June 12, 2018, 07:33:18 am
You haven't worked a Pat Benatar Neil Giraldo show, I take it?

Neil G has actually gotten to be quite reasonable, apparently.  Did an arena show with he and Pat about a year ago and I was shocked at what wasn't coming off the stage.  I even said something to the FOH guy about it and he indicated that it had been a series of discussions and changes, but it was much better than it had been.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Chris Hindle on June 12, 2018, 08:14:03 am
Neil G has actually gotten to be quite reasonable, apparently.  Did an arena show with he and Pat about a year ago and I was shocked at what wasn't coming off the stage.  I even said something to the FOH guy about it and he indicated that it had been a series of discussions and changes, but it was much better than it had been.

Jeez, it only took 25 years for that "conversation"
I mixed them twice in the last century....
She's a pussycat. Him, not so much.
Always liked her music...
Guess I'll have to check out their next tour.
Chris.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Steve Payne on June 12, 2018, 08:18:11 am
You haven't worked a Pat Benatar Neil Giraldo show, I take it?

Neil G might be the nicest guy on earth ....

...or he might not be.  We provided for a PB/NG show about 15 years ago.  The main (only?) thing I remember was that Neil had a talkback mic that went to the FOH near field monitors.  During both soundcheck and the show itself, Neil repeatedly berated the FOH engineer and gave him specific level and eq instructions.  Never seen anything like it before of since.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Chris Hindle on June 12, 2018, 10:35:08 am
...or he might not be.  We provided for a PB/NG show about 15 years ago.  The main (only?) thing I remember was that Neil had a talkback mic that went to the FOH near field monitors.  During both soundcheck and the show itself, Neil repeatedly berated the FOH engineer and gave him specific level and eq instructions.  Never seen anything like it before of since.
I've seen experienced it twice.
One show I was on FOH, and a couple of years later when I was on Monitors......
Not fun.
Chris.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Tim McCulloch on June 12, 2018, 12:08:04 pm
...or he might not be.  We provided for a PB/NG show about 15 years ago.  The main (only?) thing I remember was that Neil had a talkback mic that went to the FOH near field monitors.  During both soundcheck and the show itself, Neil repeatedly berated the FOH engineer and gave him specific level and eq instructions.  Never seen anything like it before of since.

My personal observations of that era are identical.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Ned Ward on June 12, 2018, 04:10:58 pm
You haven't worked a Pat Benatar Neil Giraldo show, I take it?

By far he's not the only one, though.  There are plenty of guitar-slingers that can't seem to create "my tone" without huge amounts of SPL.

I wonder if part of what they like also involves human auditory physical compression and Temporary Threshold Shift in combination with the actual sonic content of the guitar rig's output.  The human phys element would also help explain why some guitarists claim their rigs record differently than they sound live.  If nothing changes except putting the player in cans or listening via control room monitors what has changed is the player's environment, not the rig... but I digress.

The guitar is a wonderful instrument.  It can be a weapon of musical disruption or it can be a machine to kill Fascists or it can serenade your friends.  I wish it could be used in friendlier SPL ranges sometimes.


Green Day likes their amps loud and crunchy live -- which is why they are set yo backstage firing backwards from the stage into Shure ribbon mics. There's many ways to get the sound you want from a guitar amp dimed without making the audience suffer...
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Jared Bartimus on June 17, 2018, 06:20:52 pm

Green Day likes their amps loud and crunchy live -- which is why they are set yo backstage firing backwards from the stage into Shure ribbon mics. There's many ways to get the sound you want from a guitar amp dimed without making the audience suffer...

And at that level there should be no reason not to isolate the cabinets from the audience or use power reducers to get "your sound".  Even if it means a flat pack iso cabinet the size of a small room.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Rick Powell on June 17, 2018, 06:35:44 pm
Def Leopard 1987 Hysteria tour, at Alpine Valley WI with the great Robert Scovill mixing. The sound was crystal clear and I would guess the average level was 100 dB or so, 2/3 of the way back within the shed. There were times the audience sing-along level slightly dominated what was coming out of the sound system. Even with what is now 30 year old technology, the sound beat a lot of what I hear today.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Tim Weaver on June 18, 2018, 08:06:54 pm
I took my son to see The Glitch Mob last week and the FOH mix was rediculous. These guys have a silent stage since everything is synth based, but FOH was punishing. Sounded decent, but it was super painful for a venue where the longest throw was maybe 30 feet. I should have taken earplugs, but I forgot....


Pat Travers still remains the loudest stage rig I've ever heard. Drove everybody out of the club. Band and crew were great to work with, but that guitar was just unbeleivably loud.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on June 18, 2018, 09:39:20 pm
I took my son to see The Glitch Mob last week and the FOH mix was rediculous. These guys have a silent stage since everything is synth based, but FOH was punishing. Sounded decent, but it was super painful for a venue where the longest throw was maybe 30 feet. I should have taken earplugs, but I forgot....


Pat Travers still remains the loudest stage rig I've ever heard. Drove everybody out of the club. Band and crew were great to work with, but that guitar was just unbeleivably loud.

I get that levels will vary - and I am quite forgiving within limits but it is such a shame when it makes that much difference to comfort levels to send folks away.
What part of forcing their fans to leave the building don't they understand???
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Stephen Kirby on June 19, 2018, 01:52:59 am
And at that level there should be no reason not to isolate the cabinets from the audience or use power reducers to get "your sound".  Even if it means a flat pack iso cabinet the size of a small room.
You miss the point.  It's not only about running an amp at some volume level to get it to break up in a particular way, it's also about the acoustic interaction between the guitar and the sound on stage.  Long before you get to the point of Santana like feedback the sound of the guitar will bloom and react differently when hit with airborne soundwaves.  It doesn't take a wall of full stacks to do this, but it doesn't work with a Quilter and an iso cab either.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Bob Leonard on June 19, 2018, 07:23:10 am
My personal observations of that era are identical.

I've seen this as well while attending a "Neil" show. The venue was fairly small (4000 capacity) and the sound, if you want to call it that, from Neil's rig was overwhelming. We left early, went to a bar down the street where we could still hear the band at a much lower volume, then got drunk. Best he's ever sounded, so I guess for the best results the layout should include a wall between Neil and the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: Geert Friedhof on June 19, 2018, 06:20:23 pm
Maybe Sennheiser should get into the guitar pick up business.

I'm sure if they made a guitar compatible E835 no one needs  a loud amp to get the distortion and feedback they are looking for.
Title: Re: Def Leppard/Journey PA provider
Post by: George Powell on June 20, 2018, 08:13:03 am
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180620/22d956820c5bac7c347f8dc9fc71ef99.jpg)
Dinosaur Jr was one for me. Three full stacks with two fenders in front and a vocal mic within a few feet of it all.  This was in a 500 cap club.  He had to leave one full stack in the truck because he couldn’t fit it on stage. 


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