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Title: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Gary Greyhosky on April 05, 2018, 10:06:11 am
Greetings,

i've been tasked with setting up a sound system in a new nightclub. The system is RCF. 10 HDL20's and 4 Sub 9006 on an aux. Because the system is active, the LM 26 will be used for EQ and alignment delay but no crossover functions. Perhaps not the processor I would have spec'd in this situation, as it's a bit of overkill, but not my call.

I've set up numerous other system processors but this is my first experience with the Lake. I brought the processor to my office, hooked it up to my laptop running the Lake controller software, made sure the firmware and controller are up to date, opened up the manual and dug in. Once I wrapped my head around the modules and frames, I chose the aux frames, as they appear to be the way to go when crossover processing is not necessary. Is this correct approach or is there a better way to do this?

I set up the routing I need, and saved a preset for recall once I was back on site. When I got the processor back into the system, the preset loaded as expected and then the fun started. The unit is passing audio even when muted. None of the HPF or EQ changes I make on the laptop (or on the actual unit) have any effect on the audio. The mute lights on the unit itself respond correctly when toggled on the laptop or on the unit itself. Metering is working on both the unit and in the control software. Only analog ins and outs are in use. I figured I'd check the forums for any ideas before I bite the bullet and call tech support. Am I broken, or is the LM 26 not functioning properly?  Any thoughts from those with expertise with this processor would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Ron Bolte on April 05, 2018, 10:21:42 am
Double check your routing...
I know from experience that its possible to accidentally rout an analog input to an output, directly, which bypasses any processing, including mutes and levels.  Not sure what that function would provide, other than a REALLY pricey distribution amp?
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Gary Greyhosky on April 05, 2018, 10:34:13 am
Double check your routing...
I know from experience that its possible to accidentally rout an analog input to an output, directly, which bypasses any processing, including mutes and levels.  Not sure what that function would provide, other than a REALLY pricey distribution amp?

So.... It's possible that by setting analog input 1 to outputs 1,2 &3 and input 2 to outputs 4,5, & 6 that I bypassed all of the processing functions? Hmmmm.... seems a little counter intuitive, but I'll go back and check the routing I applied to see if that fixes the issues. Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Steve Litscher on April 05, 2018, 10:45:51 am
It's definitely the routing.

I struggled with the same problem on my LM44 and was finally able to talk with an engineer from Lake who helped me troubleshoot the routing. I told him that the routing menus were extremely counter-intuitive. He agreed, but essentially said, "that's how it is."

Triple-check your routing; I don't have my laptop with me right now, but make sure you've got everything selected properly for both the input side and output side on the routing menu. By default, I think it opens in the AES/SPDIF section, even when you've got it configured for analog or something else.
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Ron Bolte on April 05, 2018, 10:49:01 am
So.... It's possible that by setting analog input 1 to outputs 1,2 &3 and input 2 to outputs 4,5, & 6 that I bypassed all of the processing functions? Hmmmm.... seems a little counter intuitive, but I'll go back and check the routing I applied to see if that fixes the issues. Thanks for the tip.
Yes. If you check on the (Modules)>(IO Config) page, you'll see the flow for all four channels.  The little magnifier icon at the end of each row opens the routing page. The input for each row/channel should be set only on the left of the row, by clicking on one of the input icons, that opens the input mixer for that channel. (each channel has all inputs available to it, set by the levels in the mixer.  If you directly routed any of the inputs, to the outputs, you have found your issue!  Very flexible, powerful setup, but easy to confuse.
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Gary Greyhosky on April 05, 2018, 11:03:49 am
Yes. If you check on the (Modules)>(IO Config) page, you'll see the flow for all four channels.  The little magnifier icon at the end of each row opens the routing page. The input for each row/channel should be set only on the left of the row, by clicking on one of the input icons, that opens the input mixer for that channel. (each channel has all inputs available to it, set by the levels in the mixer.  If you directly routed any of the inputs, to the outputs, you have found your issue!  Very flexible, powerful setup, but easy to confuse.

It does default to AES/SPDIF, but I found my way to the analog input routing. I'll go through it again and make sure I have it correct. It's about the only thing I can think of that would cause the processing to not take effect. Thanks for the info guys. I've gotten more information here in less time than I'd be on hold waiting for the "next available technician". Oh well, at least the console is a Midas Pro2. Keeps the non intuitive theme intact.  :D
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Dave Pluke on April 05, 2018, 12:10:32 pm
Oh well, at least the console is a Midas Pro2.

Rhetorical question:  And you can't do the necessary processing on the Pro2 (keeping in mind the sub has its own variable delay control)?

Dave
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Gary Greyhosky on April 05, 2018, 12:14:36 pm
Rhetorical question:  And you can't do the necessary processing on the Pro2 (keeping in mind the sub has its own variable delay control)?

Dave

Yes, in this instance I certainly could have (and would have if it was my decision), but they want this processor in the rig. I guess I always try to use the least amount of gear necessary for simplicity, efficiency and because I have to pack it up and move it. Silly me.
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Riley Casey on April 05, 2018, 01:18:07 pm
System specific settings that should be beyond the reach of the band engineer du jour are a scene memory away from being deleted if the processing is resident in the console.  The venue owner has an interest in keeping that separate.

Rhetorical question:  And you can't do the necessary processing on the Pro2 (keeping in mind the sub has its own variable delay control)?

Dave
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Steven Eudaly on April 05, 2018, 01:23:08 pm
System specific settings that should be beyond the reach of the band engineer du jour are a scene memory away from being deleted if the processing is resident in the console.  The venue owner has an interest in keeping that separate.

+100, not to mention also having the ability to tie in guest consoles directly and maintain system settings.
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 05, 2018, 01:56:35 pm
Rhetorical question:  And you can't do the necessary processing on the Pro2 (keeping in mind the sub has its own variable delay control)?

Dave

Mostly because in general and particularly for an installation, you want the system processing in a dedicated controller.

Change consoles?  System alignment and optimization are gone - disappeared like Houdini.  Band's own console?  Houdini.  New venue house guy futzing around?  Houdini.

This discussion has been hashed at least a half dozen times since B* put Linkwitz-Riley filters on the matrix outputs of the X32...

System processing belongs outside the console.  Period.
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: brian maddox on April 05, 2018, 08:11:44 pm
Mostly because in general and particularly for an installation, you want the system processing in a dedicated controller.

Change consoles?  System alignment and optimization are gone - disappeared like Houdini.  Band's own console?  Houdini.  New venue house guy futzing around?  Houdini.

This discussion has been hashed at least a half dozen times since B* put Linkwitz-Riley filters on the matrix outputs of the X32...

System processing belongs outside the console.  Period.

But Tim....  It's SO convenient to be able to fiddle with my system processor setting while i'm mixing a show. 

hmmmm....  Guitar sounds a little muddy....  Maybe if i roll the crossover point up an octave or two.....
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Dave Pluke on April 07, 2018, 12:05:40 pm
Mostly because in general and particularly for an installation, you want the system processing in a dedicated controller.
...

System processing belongs outside the console.  Period.

Wasn't looking at it from that perspective.  Thanks to all who responded.

I agree that system processing belongs outside the console.  My question resulted from the fact that the powered speakers mentioned have their own internal DSP'ing which could be kept safely out of reach of visiting engineers.  The Lake seemed redundant.

Dave
Title: Re: Lake LM26 help
Post by: Gary Greyhosky on April 16, 2018, 12:04:22 pm
So, it was in fact the routing set up causing the issue. Thank you to everyone for the input. Club opened this past weekend and everything worked as expected.

Indeed the venue needs to accommodate guest consoles, thus the dedicated system processor. In this situation, only the EQ and delay are being utilized in the Lake. Had it been my choice, I likely would have spec'd a processor that's a little simpler to set up and navigate, but it all ended well and everyone seems happy, so on to the next one.

Thanks again to all who offered assistance.