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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => AC Power and Grounding => Topic started by: Lance Hallmark on February 26, 2018, 02:59:10 pm

Title: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Lance Hallmark on February 26, 2018, 02:59:10 pm
I have just picked up a preowned Powersoft K10 amplifier. It has a power supply that can accept a 110 or 220 power source. It currently has a 220 plug on it. I would like to create a second cable with a 110 plug on it for easy testing and configuration at the house. I'm sure it's fairly straightforward but I wanted to get an easy to understand explanation on what I need to do.
Thank You

Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on February 26, 2018, 04:18:11 pm
Be aware the 110V line cord will carry 2x the current, so may involve more than a different plug end.

JR
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Lance Hallmark on February 26, 2018, 04:36:33 pm
Be aware the 110V line cord will carry 2x the current, so may involve more than a different plug end.

JR
John, that just confused me, which is why I'm here.
The power source of the amp is variable, no configuration changes required as it will auto detect the voltage.
To be clear, what I want to do is to be able to plug the amp into a 110 20amp outlet so I can test and configure. I'm still trying to get my head around high power equipment, distros, etc... so I want to learn properly and be safe. There are also electrical current limiters in the amp's DSP.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on February 26, 2018, 04:55:13 pm
John, that just confused me, which is why I'm here.
The power source of the amp is variable, no configuration changes required as it will auto detect the voltage.
To be clear, what I want to do is to be able to plug the amp into a 110 20amp outlet so I can test and configure. I'm still trying to get my head around high power equipment, distros, etc... so I want to learn properly and be safe. There are also electrical current limiters in the amp's DSP.
Read what I said...

It takes more current at 110V to makes the same power as at 220V

P=IxE (power = current times voltage).   Make the voltage 1/2 requires 2x the current to get the same power from the mains.

JR
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Lance Hallmark on February 26, 2018, 04:59:50 pm
Read what I said...

It takes more current at 110V to makes the same power as at 220V

P=IxE (power = current times voltage).   Make the voltage 1/2 requires 2x the current to get the same power from the mains.

JR

OK, got it.
Mostly looking to do maintenance & configuration, not pulling large power out of the amp. If I was using it on a 110-20, I would have the limiter in the DSP set to under 20 amps. Eventual use will be a permanent install with 220 power.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on February 26, 2018, 07:04:32 pm
The amps nameplate should list an amp draw at a specific voltage, or a total watts power required (likely different than the amps rated output power).  That will tell you the size of cord needed.  Can you find and post that info?
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Riley Casey on February 26, 2018, 08:51:37 pm
If by "test and configure" you mean turn it on and set up the DSP to get the desired response and limiter settings configured then there are no issues beyond wiring your adaptor cable correctly.  The amp will draw only idle current for these operations and a modern class D amp has very little inrush current at turn on.  If you plan to test output power into speaker loads with sine waves at anything near live music levels then you will see substantial current drawn from the wall circuit and could be in for some nasty results, melting wires, smoke, fire, that sort of thing. Thats what the previous responses are getting at.  Some quick googling should give you the European wire color equivalents for getting your adaptor wired correctly.


...
To be clear, what I want to do is to be able to plug the amp into a 110 20amp outlet so I can test and configure. ...
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Lance Hallmark on February 27, 2018, 12:56:05 pm
If by "test and configure" you mean turn it on and set up the DSP to get the desired response and limiter settings configured then there are no issues beyond wiring your adaptor cable correctly.  The amp will draw only idle current for these operations and a modern class D amp has very little inrush current at turn on.  If you plan to test output power into speaker loads with sine waves at anything near live music levels then you will see substantial current drawn from the wall circuit and could be in for some nasty results, melting wires, smoke, fire, that sort of thing. Thats what the previous responses are getting at.  Some quick googling should give you the European wire color equivalents for getting your adaptor wired correctly.
Correct, not putting any real draw on it, just checking it powers up and configuring the DSP. I just wanted to make sure I wire a new plug correctly. As stated, I'm new to the power side of things, the plug that is attached is actually a 120-30amp plug, an L5-30 locking plug. I just want to create a cable (or adapter) so I can plug it into a regular 110-15 amp outlet to configure DSP settings in my studio.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Art Welter on February 27, 2018, 01:28:11 pm
I just want to create a cable (or adapter) so I can plug it into a regular 110-15 amp outlet to configure DSP settings in my studio.
Your standard 120/15A plug and amplifier will be protected from "melting wires, smoke, fire, that sort of thing" by the 15 or 20 amp breaker in your standard house wiring, same as when you run a microwave oven and a toaster off the same circuit...
Adapters the opposite way are unsafe.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Erik Jerde on February 27, 2018, 03:16:47 pm
I have just picked up a preowned Powersoft K10 amplifier. It has a power supply that can accept a 110 or 220 power source. It currently has a 220 plug on it. I would like to create a second cable with a 110 plug on it for easy testing and configuration at the house. I'm sure it's fairly straightforward but I wanted to get an easy to understand explanation on what I need to do.
Thank You

I havenít used this model powersoft amp but if itís at all like the x4 Iíve worked on the manual will have your answers.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Kevin Graf on February 28, 2018, 09:46:38 am
Also be aware that US line voltage may be as high as 125V. A power transformer designed for 110V could be unhappy with 125V.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on February 28, 2018, 10:21:29 am
Also be aware that US line voltage may be as high as 125V. A power transformer designed for 110V could be unhappy with 125V.
If the power amp can accept 220V it is unlikely to be bothered by 125V.

JR
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Geert Friedhof on March 01, 2018, 08:27:09 am
European (IEC) colorcoding is

green/yellow=earth
blue=neutral
brown=hot/line/phase, you know: the one that hurts when touched...

Brown can also be black, if it is a switched, mobile or 3 phase (+grey) application.

Standard voltage here is 230V/50Hz. Used to be 220 on main land, 240 in the UK, but now all of Europe has 230V, -6% +10%.

All equipment has to be designed for +/- 10%

Some (most?) european power plugs can be inserted in 2 ways, like up or down, so the equipment is designed to accept phase at either pole. We can switch blue and brown at the powerplug. Earth always stays earth of course.

About the K10: The K10 should have a AWG10 cable, rated at 52A, with a AMP CPC 45A connector. It pulls 22.6A@1/4 power, according to the manual. It accepts 100-240 V @ 50-60Hz, +/- 10%, so you should be good.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on March 01, 2018, 04:25:03 pm
I havenít used this model powersoft amp but if itís at all like the x4 Iíve worked on the manual will have your answers.

Aaaand... it does. See the attached image, taken from the manual, specific to the K10 (http://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/touring/k-series#K10).

You can see that it has a universal switch-mode power supply rated for any voltage from 100V to 240V, 50-60Hz AC. So no need for transformers and little need for voltage regulators.

Why, I'll bet that if you contacted Powersoft support (http://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/support/service), they'd be happy to sell you a cord appropriate for your region with all the proper safety listings.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Kevin Graf on March 02, 2018, 08:36:53 am
Also be aware that US line voltage may be as high as 125V. A power transformer designed for 110V could be unhappy with 125V.
If the power amp can accept 220V it is unlikely to be bothered by 125V.
JR
For 220V operation, it has two 110V coils connected in series (for 110V operation they are in parallel).
It's not about insulation breakdown, it's about core saturation.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on March 02, 2018, 12:25:20 pm
Except that with most modern "universal" power supplies that are rated from 90-240 VAC there are no transformer coils being switched from series to parallel.  If there is a 110-220 V selector switch that would be the case-but those are becoming few and far between.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Ed Hall on March 04, 2018, 06:52:21 am
...As stated, I'm new to the power side of things, the plug that is attached is actually a 120-30amp plug, an L5-30 locking plug. ...

Slightly off topic but related, isnít the L5-30 rated for 120V only and not 220V? If it were in use for 220V service shouldnít it have the L6-30?
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Keith Broughton on March 04, 2018, 07:48:32 am
Slightly off topic but related, isnít the L5-30 rated for 120V only and not 220V? If it were in use for 220V service shouldnít it have the L6-30?
You are correct.
They are mechanically different as well, so can't be used in the wrong outlet.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Lance Hallmark on March 05, 2018, 04:37:10 pm
Thank You everyone for the input & education.
Title: Re: Changing plug from 220 to 110
Post by: Kevin Graf on March 05, 2018, 05:34:43 pm
Except that with most modern "universal" power supplies that are rated from 90-240 VAC there are no transformer coils being switched from series to parallel.  If there is a 110-220 V selector switch that would be the case-but those are becoming few and far between.
Of course.
But I was referring to legacy power amplifiers.