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Title: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Chris Poynter on February 12, 2018, 11:09:04 pm
Hello Everyone!

I'm looking for an alternative to my tripod stands for my JBL SRX 815p speakers (they weigh 63 lb each) and I'm wondering if there's something like this that will hold that much weight.

Thanks!

Christopher
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 12, 2018, 11:14:28 pm
Hello Everyone!

I'm looking for an alternative to my tripod stands for my JBL SRX 815p speakers (they weigh 63 lb each) and I'm wondering if there's something like this that will hold that much weight.

Non-tripod stands are likely to be heavier that tripods to have the same stability. Depending on the types of shows you do, pipe and base like what's used for lighting works well, or truss on a base plate. Under the right circumstances you get the lighting dept to provide them.

Mac
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on February 12, 2018, 11:45:44 pm
Global Truss/Dura Truss has a top plate for their 12" box truss that has a 35mm pin for speaker mounting purposes.   They have 30" aluminum and a 36" steel base plate options.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Scott Holtzman on February 13, 2018, 12:20:44 am
Global Truss/Dura Truss has a top plate for their 12" box truss that has a 35mm pin for speaker mounting purposes.   They have 30" aluminum and a 36" steel base plate options.

Don't even think about aluminum plates.  I made that mistake too.

The problem with steel is the shipping.  Get enough to justify a pallet load if you can. 

Even with the steel I feel better with 2 or 3 - 25lb sand bags on them. 
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Chris Poynter on February 13, 2018, 10:03:19 am
Thanks guys.

I've seen people put their speakers on box truss totems before, and that's definitely an option. I wonder if I could use 4" or 8" truss though, because I think the speaker on 12" box truss is a little bit much, if that makes sense?

I would prefer to avoid sandbags if possible. This is for wedding DJ gigs, and I want it to look suuuuuper slick. I always have the speakers on either side of my table, or in low-traffic areas, so it's rare for me to see anyone touch them, much less come near them. For events where they'll be in higher traffic areas, I think I'd stick to the tripods. Safety first! ;)

If I used a pipe, or some smaller-diameter (4" or 8") box truss, and had it about 5.5 - 6 feet tall with the speaker (63 lbs) on top, how heavy do you figure the base plate should be for it to be as stable as my tripod stands?

Maybe I'll have to try to get something custom-made...
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 13, 2018, 10:33:27 am
Thanks guys.

I've seen people put their speakers on box truss totems before, and that's definitely an option. I wonder if I could use 4" or 8" truss though, because I think the speaker on 12" box truss is a little bit much, if that makes sense?

I would prefer to avoid sandbags if possible. This is for wedding DJ gigs, and I want it to look suuuuuper slick. I always have the speakers on either side of my table, or in low-traffic areas, so it's rare for me to see anyone touch them, much less come near them. For events where they'll be in higher traffic areas, I think I'd stick to the tripods. Safety first! ;)

If I used a pipe, or some smaller-diameter (4" or 8") box truss, and had it about 5.5 - 6 feet tall with the speaker (63 lbs) on top, how heavy do you figure the base plate should be for it to be as stable as my tripod stands?

Maybe I'll have to try to get something custom-made...

The ancients of algebra and geometry have formulas for these things...

But... while I understand the "look" need for Bridezilla and Momzilla, they'd get ever so cross with you (Shirley Temple moment, sorry) if one of their drunk guests tipped something over and created a disturbance on the Special Day.  Because it's all your fault, not Uncle Henry's 23rd trip to the open bar...

The trick to sandbags is plants and flowers.  Seriously.  Or lots of pretty fabric treatment (fireproofed or IFR, of course)...
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: David Allred on February 13, 2018, 11:59:32 am
What about those pole covers that stretch to cover the tripod.  They come in white and can be back-lit?
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Scott Holtzman on February 13, 2018, 12:11:59 pm
The ancients of algebra and geometry have formulas for these things...

But... while I understand the "look" need for Bridezilla and Momzilla, they'd get ever so cross with you (Shirley Temple moment, sorry) if one of their drunk guests tipped something over and created a disturbance on the Special Day.  Because it's all your fault, not Uncle Henry's 23rd trip to the open bar...

The trick to sandbags is plants and flowers.  Seriously.  Or lots of pretty fabric treatment (fireproofed or IFR, of course)...


Tim is dead on.  Some type of visual treatment.  Truss warmers are very nice and for a more elegant use, white spandex can be stretched over and clipped in the back (no need for those expensive, never the right length, always running like panty hose, pre-made ones. 

Also your speakers need to be taller than the tallest person or a little more and tilted down.  The advantage of the truss is you can walk them up once assembled on ground.

Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Chris Hindle on February 13, 2018, 12:21:13 pm

If I used a pipe, or some smaller-diameter (4" or 8") box truss, and had it about 5.5 - 6 feet tall with the speaker (63 lbs) on top, how heavy do you figure the base plate should be for it to be as stable as my tripod stands?

If your "feel safe" tripods have a leg spread of 5 feet, well, that's your plate size.
No math required. Add plants, and you're all set.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Scott Olewiler on February 13, 2018, 12:31:05 pm
Hello Everyone!

I'm looking for an alternative to my tripod stands for my JBL SRX 815p speakers (they weigh 63 lb each) and I'm wondering if there's something like this that will hold that much weight.

Thanks!

Christopher

If you have the space in the trailer you might want to look for some really cheap smaller used subwoofers with pole mounts on Craigslist and repaint them. Might be cheaper that having something custom made and doesn't have big foot print. I found one today for $60.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: David Allred on February 13, 2018, 02:17:11 pm
   white spandex can be stretched over and clipped in the back (no need for those expensive, never the right length, always running like panty hose, pre-made ones. 


Good idea.  Will spandex allow that glow effect when back lit?
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Tim McCulloch on February 13, 2018, 03:49:28 pm
Good idea.  Will spandex allow that glow effect when back lit?

White or light gray works well.  Put a small LED fixture inside the truss at the base.  If the beam is too narrow use a piece of wax paper (from the grocery store, nothing fancy) as a diffuser.  If you light from the inside you can use the binder clip method Scott mentions (clips on the upstage side) and nobody will see them from the front or sides.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Robert Lunceford on February 13, 2018, 05:37:36 pm
If you are doing mostly weddings, you should consider moving away from traditional speakers and go with a column array.
It does not matter how good looking you think your box speakers are, they stand out like a sore thumb at a wedding.
Almost every manufacturer has a fully self contained column array system. Some even offer theirs in white.
A column array with it's companion sub will eliminate your need for a speaker stand or tripod.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Geert Friedhof on February 13, 2018, 09:43:32 pm
What about buying some subs with poles? Might improve your sound, and eliminates the need for stands
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Bob Leonard on February 13, 2018, 09:45:25 pm
Years ago I was using SRX722's for vocals, and 725's for backline. Really hard to elevate the 722's in a manner that looked professional and was secure and strong, easy to use and compact.

My answer came in the form of keyboard stands similar to those at the link below. All you need to do is cut a piece of 1/2 plywood that fits under the speaker, paint it black, put clips on the bottom to engage the stand cross arms, and you're good to go.

Notice that the stands here, and the stands I used close up and lock to a point where the opening at the top of the "X" can be as little as 1 foot wide.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XStdDbl?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9Macz7Ck2QIVULbACh2TOwZkEAYYBSABEgKkIvD_BwE
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Lyle Williams on February 14, 2018, 03:37:50 am
What about buying some subs with poles? Might improve your sound, and eliminates the need for stands

+1
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Steve M Smith on February 14, 2018, 04:02:35 am
If you have the space in the trailer you might want to look for some really cheap smaller used subwoofers with pole mounts on Craigslist and repaint them.

I was going to suggest subs too.  Even if they are not in use, they provide a more sturdy base and often in the eyes of guests/customers, mark out a 'do not enter' area which stands don't.


Steve.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Chris Poynter on February 14, 2018, 08:39:56 am
If you are doing mostly weddings, you should consider moving away from traditional speakers and go with a column array.

What about buying some subs with poles? Might improve your sound, and eliminates the need for stands

Yes, my ultimate plan is to eventually get two SRX818SP subs to go with my current system for larger events, and a smaller column array system for smaller events. Unfortunately that's a lot of money for my small sole proprietor business that does 40-50 events per year as a side job! :o

If your "feel safe" tripods have a leg spread of 5 feet, well, that's your plate size.
No math required. Add plants, and you're all set.

Good call. Thanks.

What about those pole covers that stretch to cover the tripod.  They come in white and can be back-lit?

I can't stand the glowing teepee look. It's terrible. See what I did there? ;) I've considered just getting some black fabric to cover the tripod legs instead though.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Marc Sibilia on February 14, 2018, 09:29:07 am
If your "feel safe" tripods have a leg spread of 5 feet, well, that's your plate size.
No math required. Add plants, and you're all set.

If the plate is a circle, it can be half the diameter and have the same stability.  A tripod tipping on two legs has half the base distance as a tripod tipping up on one leg (which never happens).

If you make a 5 foot circular plate, it is twice as stable as a tripod with a 5 foot spread.  It is also ridiculously large.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Dennis Wiggins on February 14, 2018, 10:00:42 am
Unfortunately that's a lot of money for my small sole proprietor business that does 40-50 events per year as a side job! :o

At 40-50 events/year, there should be money.  My gut feeling is you are not charging enough.  If the clients expect higher quality and you make the investment to deliver it, then they should pay more for it.

-Dennis
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on February 14, 2018, 10:02:15 am
The problem with steel is the shipping. 

Yes.. so avoid that if possible. I had a local to me metal supplier cut 24"x24" 1/4" plate steel baseplates complete with a hand hole on one side and 4 units cost less than a single aluminum base plate does. Each one of these baseplates weighs about 50lbs and that provides a very stable base for a moving head on a 6.5' section of 12" box truss.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Jay Barracato on February 14, 2018, 10:04:23 am
Something tips when the center of gravity goes past the tipping point (pivot point ) of the base.

Increasing stability is simply lowering the center of gravity or widening the base.

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Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Chris Hindle on February 14, 2018, 12:32:08 pm
If the plate is a circle, it can be half the diameter and have the same stability.  A tripod tipping on two legs has half the base distance as a tripod tipping up on one leg (which never happens).

If you make a 5 foot circular plate, it is twice as stable as a tripod with a 5 foot spread.  It is also ridiculously large.

with a "load" a couple of feet high, maybe.
Supporting a 60 pound box, 6' in the air on a 2-1/2 foot base?
Not gonna happen.
Way too easy to nudge the center of balance over the edge of the plate. You know what happens next.....
Wasn't it Aristotle that is quoted as saying "Give me a lever long enough, and I'll move the world"
You'll have to make a balance of weight to diameter to get to a "safe" place.
Chris.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Scott Olewiler on February 14, 2018, 01:43:53 pm
At 40-50 events/year, there should be money.  My gut feeling is you are not charging enough.  If the clients expect higher quality and you make the investment to deliver it, then they should pay more for it.

-Dennis

If Chris is doing 40-50 gigs a year at the prices on his website, and can't afford subs he needs to figure out where the money is going.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Marc Sibilia on February 14, 2018, 01:58:40 pm
with a "load" a couple of feet high, maybe.
Supporting a 60 pound box, 6' in the air on a 2-1/2 foot base?
Not gonna happen.


All I am saying is if you aren't comfortable using a 2 1/2 foot circular base, you should be equally uncomfortable with a 5 foot base tripod.  The 2 1/2 foot circle might even be better if it is heavier.  See the sketch below.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Chris Poynter on February 14, 2018, 03:14:17 pm
At 40-50 events/year, there should be money.  My gut feeling is you are not charging enough.  If the clients expect higher quality and you make the investment to deliver it, then they should pay more for it.

If Chris is doing 40-50 gigs a year at the prices on his website, and can't afford subs he needs to figure out where the money is going.

Not that it's reeeeeally anybody's business, but in 2017 I grossed approximately $45,000 for this part-time DJ thing. I spent about $10,000 of that on equipment upgrades, and plan to do about the same this year. I've already spent $3,000.

I teach elementary school part time as well, and the money I make in both jobs goes towards... let's see... the house we just bought... daycare for our two young children... food... etc., etc., etc.

I live in a small city (Victoria, BC, Canada) and I know the market quite well. I raised my prices by approximately 20% between 2016 and 2017, and plan on raising them a bit more this year. It's a balancing act, because the request I get most often from potential clients is "can we change anything with this package to make it a bit cheaper."

So yes... I could definitely purchase some nice 18" subs this year, but I also have to consider the fact that the vast majority of the venues I play already ask me to turn down the bass as it is, and I'm not going to be able to charge that much more for the extra bass.

Would I "like" to purchase some subs right now? Hell yes! But that isn't really what this thread is about!  :)
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Chris Poynter on February 14, 2018, 03:16:25 pm
All I am saying is if you aren't comfortable using a 2 1/2 foot circular base, you should be equally uncomfortable with a 5 foot base tripod.  The 2 1/2 foot circle might even be better if it is heavier.  See the sketch below.

I didn't take physics in high school (I've always been more of a fine arts kinda guy) but in theory this makes sense!? I'm going to look into this more.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Dave Garoutte on February 14, 2018, 03:28:47 pm
I didn't take physics in high school (I've always been more of a fine arts kinda guy) but in theory this makes sense!? I'm going to look into this more.

Of course, the tripod is only that tippy (technical term) at three points on the circle.  As the force is applied away from those directions, it gets more stable.
A circular base is equally tippy in all directions.
They should make quadropods.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Rick Powell on February 14, 2018, 03:41:13 pm
One element of using a circular base is that it is very difficult to level on an uneven surface as compared to a tripod, especially a tripod with an adjustable leg such as the Global ST-132 that accounts for uneven surfaces.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Stephen Kirby on February 14, 2018, 04:45:20 pm
If you have the space in the trailer you might want to look for some really cheap smaller used subwoofers with pole mounts on Craigslist and repaint them. Might be cheaper that having something custom made and doesn't have big foot print. I found one today for $60.
I've had experience with speakers lighter than Chris' on 1-15 subs getting knocked over.  Very fortunately it happened at the corner of the stage where I was playing and I was able to reach out, catch it and pull it back upright without missing a beat.  But that was the last time I ever set up like that.  Played with it at home afterwards and was surprised how easy it was to knock over.  It's actually pretty scary.  Now it's sandbags on tripod stands.  It's fairly amazing how much force a staggering drunk can impart to a stand.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: David Allred on February 14, 2018, 04:53:44 pm
One element of using a circular base is that it is very difficult to level on an uneven surface as compared to a tripod, especially a tripod with an adjustable leg such as the Global ST-132 that accounts for uneven surfaces.

To boot, a flat piece of metal that size ain't flat (without paying a huge (HHUUUGGGEEEE) amount of money).  Wobble city.  2nd to boot, floors ain't flat.  3 contact points is the only way to avoid a wobble, so the round plate will still need 3 rubber feet.  Back to being a tripod, a very sleek low-profile heavy tripod nonetheless. :) 
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Tim Hite on February 14, 2018, 05:10:30 pm
. . .I'm wondering if there's something like this that will hold that much weight. . .

I have the K&M 480mm square bases with 26736 distance rods. I use them with RCF TT52a speakers. They go way up and are small enough to squeeze into a corner. While this setup is rated to hold the weight of your JBL tops, I would be remiss to put that much weight that far up because of leverage issues already mentioned. I use the setup for wedding ceremonies and such where there will be no foot traffic nearby. Tripods for anything else.

Column array with a sub would be my preference if I needed to get louder and be on a dance floor. Get more low end having the sub on the floor and easier to set up with smaller tops going up.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Rob Spence on February 14, 2018, 11:14:34 pm
Yes, my ultimate plan is to eventually get two SRX818SP subs to go with my current system for larger events, and a smaller column array system for smaller events. Unfortunately that's a lot of money for my small sole proprietor business that does 40-50 events per year as a side job! :o

Good call. Thanks.

I can't stand the glowing teepee look. It's terrible. See what I did there? ;) I've considered just getting some black fabric to cover the tripod legs instead though.

I have both white and black covers for tripod stands.
Wedding receptions get the white with a soft glow of the bride’s color.

Corporate gets black.



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Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Scott Olewiler on February 15, 2018, 01:17:20 pm
Concerning the round base:

I also wonder when it does get pushed past the point of no return; does the base becomes a wheel and the speaker might go in any direction at that point?
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Chris Hindle on February 15, 2018, 01:27:46 pm
Concerning the round base:

I also wonder when it does get pushed past the point of no return; does the base becomes a wheel and the speaker might go in any direction at that point?
I would  expect the speaker (load) to be in such a hurry to reach the ground, that the shape of the base won't mean much.
Chris.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Dave Garoutte on February 15, 2018, 03:43:33 pm
Concerning the round base:

I also wonder when it does get pushed past the point of no return; does the base becomes a wheel and the speaker might go in any direction at that point?

Kind of like Fred Astair (or was it Gene Kelley) dancing with the mic stand.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Bob Leonard on February 15, 2018, 09:53:50 pm
I have both white and black covers for tripod stands.
Wedding receptions get the white with a soft glow of the bride’s color.

Corporate gets black.



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And they look incredible. Just ask my daughter.
Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Joe Pieternella on February 16, 2018, 07:35:03 am
Concerning the round base:

I also wonder when it does get pushed past the point of no return; does the base becomes a wheel and the speaker might go in any direction at that point?
It will, especially if it "wiggles" back and forward or side to side or any direction for that matter.
But it won't be much and I believe the height of the pole in relation to the size of the base also has an influence.

OH and don't ask why I know

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Title: Re: Non-Tripod Speaker Stands
Post by: Craig Leerman on February 16, 2018, 02:56:56 pm
While I still use tripods (Older Hamilton steel leg units) on some events, for the most part I use Altman 55 pound bases and steel pipe. The bases take a 1 1/2” pipe and I made some reducer couplings to 1” pipe to fit the speakers. A small wrap of gaff around the 1” pipe makes the fit snug.

For heavier speakers on tall pipes I put some sandbags on the base and cover the sandbags with a piece of cloth like some banjo drape. I always have a bunch of banjo on gigs to dresss things up.

My corporate clients like the look of the pipe and base stands and I never have a tripod leg sticking out in the walkway to trip over. 

I made different height pipes for various speakers.

The picture shows a Renkus-Heinz RH62, Carvin 3903 columns, Ramsdell 10CX coax monitor and Alto 15” Truesonic cabs on the stands. I also use the stands with my Danley SM60s and smaller Altos.

Craig

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