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Title: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 07:01:10 pm
Now on the surface this is going to seem like another repetitive, possibly juvenile subject. However, hopefully it will not end up that way.
With the summer season looming I am in need of replacing my "smaller system". I plan to buy a pair of single 18' powered subs and a pair of single 15" plus horn tops, also powered.
I want to purchase a system with the highest output possible. Being a "JBL guy", my first choice would be SRX 818 sp's topped with 815's. I need a top boxes like these as they will also get used as standalone's on many occasions.
I am looking at JBL, EV, QSC, and RCF. Here's the thing. The SRX800sp is only "rated" at 1000 watts, yet has basically the same SPL rating as the others. Suggestions and advice here would be appreciated. I will probably go with the "tops" from whichever sub manufacturer I go with.


Here are the spec's on subs:


JBL SRX818SP Subwoofer Specifications
•System Type: Self powered 18", subwoofer system
•Maximum SPL Output: 135dB
•Frequency Range (-10dB): 35hz - 120khz
•Frequency Response (- 3dB): 29hz - 150khz
•System Power Rating: 1000W Peak , 750W Continuous
•Input Impedance: 40k balanced, 20k unbalanced
•Line Input Gain: 21 dB
•Consumer Input Gain: 33 dB
•Max Input Level: Line: 20dBu, Consumer: 8dBu
•Connectors: Neutrik 1/4 - XLR input; Neutrik XLR Output
•LED Indicators: Power LED (Green), Network Link (Green), Network Data (Yellow)
•Cooling: On-Demand variable speed fan
•AC Power Input: 100V - 240V 50/60Hz
•AC Power Consumption (120V): 2.2A (1/8th Power), 5.6A (1/3rd Power)
•LF Driver: 2279F
•Crossover Frequency: 80hz
•Enclosure Material: 18mm plywood
•Suspension/Mounting: M20 Threaded Pole Mount
•Handles: 4
•Finish: Obsidian Duraflex finish
•Grille: Powder coated, Obsidian, 14-gauge perforated steel with acoustically transparent black cloth backing
•Dimensions (L x W x H): 26.89 x 26.92 x 22.62" (683 x 684 x 575mm)
•Weight: 87.0 lbs (39.5kg)
•Shipping Weight: 103 lbs (46.8kg)
•Accessories: Power Cable, Quickstart Guide

QSC KW181 Loudspeaker Powered PA Subwoofer Specifications
•Configuration: 18 inches subwoofer
•Transducer:18 inches cone transducer
•Frequency Response (-6 dB): 43 Hz - 97 kHz
•Frequency Range (-10 dB): 39 Hz - 145 Hz
•Maximum SPL (1 meter): 132 dB peak
•Power Output: 1000 W Class D continuous
•Input Impedance (ohms): XLR / ¼": 38k balanced / 19k unbalanced
•Controls:  ◦Power
◦Gain
◦LF Mode (Normal/DEEP)
◦Polarity (Normal/Reverse)
◦Front LED (On/Off/Limit)

•Indicators: Power, Signal, Standby, Limit
•Connectors: Dual balanced female XLR/¼" line level input, Dual Balanced male XLR full range line level out, Remote gain control, Locking IEC power connector
•Cooling: On demand, 50 mm variable speed fan
•Amplifier Protection: Thermal limiting, output overcurrent, overtemperature muting, GuardRail
•Transducer Protection: Thermal limiting, excursion limiting
•AC Power Input: Universal power supply 100 - 240 VAC, 50 - 60 Hz
•AC Power Consumption (1/8 Power): ◦100 VAC, 2.3 A
◦120 VAC, 2.01 A
◦230 VAC, 1.13 A

•Material: 15 mm painted birch plywood
•Finish: Black textured paint
•Grille: Black powder coated 16 gauge steel
•Dimensions (HxWxD): 20.1 x 23.4 x 29.9 inches with casters (510 mm x 595 mm x 761 mm with casters)
•Weight (Net): 83 pounds (37.6 kg)

Electro Voice ETX-18P Powered PA Speaker Specifications
 •Frequency Response: 33 Hz – 150 Hz
•Frequency Range: 28 Hz – 180 Hz
•Maximum SPL: 135 dB peak
•Power Rating: 1800 W
•LF Transducer: DVX3180A 18 inch
•Low Pass Frequency: Adjustable: 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz, 150Hz
•Connectors: (2) XLR/TRS combo jack and (2) XLR link output
•Enclosure: 18-mm, 13-ply birch plywood with EVCoat
•Grille: 16AWG steel with powdercoat
•Dimensions (HxWxD): 22 x 27 x 36 inches (550x675x910mm)
•Weight: 114.2 lb (51.8 kg)

RCF SUB 8003AS 18" 2200 Watt Powered Subwoofer Specifications
 •ACOUSTICAL SPECIFICATIONS:
◦Frequency Response -3 dB: 35 Hz ÷ 120 Hz
◦Max SPL: 133 dB
◦Woofer: 18 inch, 4 inch voice coil

•INPUT/OUTPUT SECTION
◦Input connectors: Stereo XLR
◦Output connectors: Stereo XLR
◦Input sensitivity: -2 dBu / + 4 dBu

•PROCESSOR SECTION:
◦Crossover frequencies: Selectable Hz
◦Protections: thermal, rms
◦Limiter: dynamic limiter
◦Controls: Gain,EQ, phase, xover, delay, cardioid

•AMPLIFIER SPECIFICATIONS:
◦Total power: 2200 W PEAK
◦Low frequencies: 2000 W PEAK
◦Total power: 1100 W RMS
◦Low frequencies: 1100 W RMS
◦Cooling: Convection
◦Connections: Powercon in-out

•CABINET:
◦Cabinet Material: Baltic birch plywood
◦Handles: 2 side
◦Pole Mount/Cap: Yes
◦Grille: Steel
◦Color: Black

•Dimensions (HxWxD): 27.32 x 20.59 x 27.56 inches
•Weight: 95.90 lbs


JBL VRX918SP 18 Inch High Powered Subwoofer Specifications
•Power Rating   1500 Watts Peak LF: Dual-Bridged Technology™, Class D
•Frequency Range   31 Hz – 220 Hz
•Dimensions (H x W x D)   508 mm x 597 mm x 749 mm (20.0 in x 23.5 in x 29.5 in)
•Frequency Response   34 Hz – 220 Hz
•Maximum Peak Output   126 dB SPL at 1m
•Bandpass Nominal Impedance LF: 2 x 2 ohms
•LF Driver   1 x JBL 2268FF 457 mm (18 in) dual voice coil, Differential Drive® woofer with neodymium-magnet
•Audio Input Connector   XLR with loop through
•User Controls:
Input Attenuator (0-16 dB) ◦Selectable 80 Hz or 120 Hz Low Pass
◦80 Hz High-Pass enable/disable for XLR loop thru.
•Signal Processing   DSP based, resident in Input Module
•System Management   DSP based limiters for mechanical and thermal protection
•AC Power Operating Range   90-132 VAC or 216-264 VAC, 50/60Hz
•AC Line Voltage   User selectable: 120V/240V (-15%, +10%)
•AC Input Connector   Neutrik PowerCon (NAC 3MPA)
•AC Loop Through Connector   Neutrik PowerCon (NAC 3MPB)
•AC Current Requirements   6A per system at 120V, 3A per system at 240V
•Enclosure   18 mm birch plywood.
•Suspension / Mounting   Optional VRX-AF line-array frame kit or 10 mm forged eyebolts
•Finish   Black DuraFlex™ finish
•Grille   Powder coated, black, 16-gauge perforated steel with acoustically transparent foam
•Net Weight   38.5 kg (85 lb)

Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 07:02:55 pm
BTW, I'm not a newbie. Apparently my old username has been removed due to inactivity or something else....
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Mike Goodreau on February 11, 2018, 07:18:23 pm



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I find manufacturer power specs to be a joke.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 11, 2018, 07:18:56 pm
BTW, I'm not a newbie. Apparently my old username has been removed due to inactivity or something else....

As has been said many times on these forums, "watts" doesn't matter, what matters is rated SPL output.

Mac

What was your previous user name? We don't remove members unless they are only here to break the rules.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 07:20:39 pm
It was Lance Richens, and yes, I am looking at the SPL.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on February 11, 2018, 07:30:20 pm
It was Lance Richens, and yes, I am looking at the SPL.

Why are you limiting yourself to those manufactures?  Other manufactures make single 18"s that might go louder then those from the acceptable manufactures list.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 07:31:40 pm
Why are you limiting yourself to those manufactures?  Other manufactures make single 18"s that might go louder then those from the acceptable manufactures list.

Definitely open to suggestion on this.....
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on February 11, 2018, 07:36:03 pm
Definitely open to suggestion on this.....

A tapped horn has advantages due to physics where max SPL is concerned. A JTR Orbit Shifter and Danley TH118s both satisfy your "single 18" requirement, and pack some serious SPL.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 07:48:35 pm
A tapped horn has advantages due to physics where max SPL is concerned. A JTR Orbit Shifter and Danley TH118s both satisfy your "single 18" requirement, and pack some serious SPL.


Those both look like great boxes. However I need to stay in the 85-120 lb range and a much smaller box size for this setup. I have 4 SRX 728's powered by Itech 8000's when I need to go big.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Luke Geis on February 11, 2018, 07:50:01 pm
I will start by saying that not all units here are in the same class of speaker. That may be obvious. However the specs will tell you what you desire to know, even if the marketers and manufacturers don't want you to know it.

Typically you do not get LOUD & LOW in the same sentence. So the loudest sub in this particular group is also likely the not the one that gets the lowest. So what are your goals? If it is simply loud, then get the one with the loudest spec. The next question is at what frequency is that spec derived from?

I own the SRX-818's and I can say with authority that they are not kidding around. They are a serious sub that sound much as the specs suggest and despite the lower wattage, have plenty of oomph. The VRX is no slouch either. Its spec is measured in whole space, so you can expect another 6db in potential output for a half space calculation. This brings it up to 132db, but in my experience it has a bit more under the hood than the specs suggest. A pair of them are very much a formidable beast and 4 of them definitely tell the world whats up for appropriate gigs / venues.

The QSC is also very loud, but I am not a fan of it. There is just a sound characteristic to it that I do not like. It is not exactly a one note wonder, but it pretty much is. I just don't care for this model. It will put out some thump though.

The specs to the RCF show that it should be in theory be a one note wonder. The real world opinion of them is a little different. I have not used one. RCF is in the business of making real gear and I would expect that the specs are true enough to be relied upon. It is likely not the loudest, but it will sound good and perform as expected.

So lets hone in on your needs. I am in the camp / belief that 3db is not a deal breaker, nor even a real factor to consider when looking at two units that have slightly different design goals. If one is designed to go lower, you can expect that it will have less output. Wattage is NOT a true consideration at all I believe. The specs of the SRX based on wattage and output mean that the speaker should have a sensitivity of 104db @ 1 watt 1 meter. This is not an impossible or unlikely spec. Many speakers have sensitivities like that. While not common in MI grade gear, the SRX line isn't exactly MI grade. So can you rely on the peak specs presented? In short, no.

That is the short term output that can be skewed by the scale at which they test them. Some may have actually been measured at 1M, while others at 2 meters and then scaled back to what a 1 meter output should be ( +6db of the 2 meter reading ), but that doesn't tell the whole story. While it may have actually read XXXdb, it may have done so at 1 frequency. If you average the output across all frequencies, it may be several db lower in true output across the board. So we go back again to what do you need and where and what do the specs say?

The truth is that all the above mentioned speakers will perform relatively well in respect to one another. My bet would be that the one that has the loudest spec, will be the loudest ( at the frequencies that make that level of output ). So if all the speakers in this line up are within 10hz of each other in either direction and within 3db of each other in peak output, they may as well be the same unless you are looking for something specific. What is that? All the speakers you have presented are within 3db of each other BTW. Given that 3db is not the end all be all, you can almost flip a coin. I went with the SRX-818 because it was the only one that had user configurable DSP and my experience with the new SRX line has shown that it is a very serious line, is affordable and was not fluffing the numbers much if at all.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 07:57:39 pm
I will start by saying that not all units here are in the same class of speaker. That may be obvious. However the specs will tell you what you desire to know, even if the marketers and manufacturers don't want you to know it.

Typically you do not get LOUD & LOW in the same sentence. So the loudest sub in this particular group is also likely the not the one that gets the lowest. So what are your goals? If it is simply loud, then get the one with the loudest spec. The next question is at what frequency is that spec derived from?

I own the SRX-818's and I can say with authority that they are not kidding around. They are a serious sub that sound much as the specs suggest and despite the lower wattage, have plenty of oomph. The VRX is no slouch either. Its spec is measured in whole space, so you can expect another 6db in potential output for a half space calculation. This brings it up to 132db, but in my experience it has a bit more under the hood than the specs suggest. A pair of them are very much a formidable beast and 4 of them definitely tell the world whats up for appropriate gigs / venues.

The QSC is also very loud, but I am not a fan of it. There is just a sound characteristic to it that I do not like. It is not exactly a one note wonder, but it pretty much is. I just don't care for this model. It will put out some thump though.

The specs to the RCF show that it should be in theory be a one note wonder. The real world opinion of them is a little different. I have not used one. RCF is in the business of making real gear and I would expect that the specs are true enough to be relied upon. It is likely not the loudest, but it will sound good and perform as expected.

So lets hone in on your needs. I am in the camp / belief that 3db is not a deal breaker, nor even a real factor to consider when looking at two units that have slightly different design goals. If one is designed to go lower, you can expect that it will have less output. Wattage is NOT a true consideration at all I believe. The specs of the SRX based on wattage and output mean that the speaker should have a sensitivity of 104db @ 1 watt 1 meter. This is not an impossible or unlikely spec. Many speakers have sensitivities like that. While not common in MI grade gear, the SRX line isn't exactly MI grade. So can you rely on the peak specs presented? In short, no.

That is the short term output that can be skewed by the scale at which they test them. Some may have actually been measured at 1M, while others at 2 meters and then scaled back to what a 1 meter output should be ( +6db of the 2 meter reading ), but that doesn't tell the whole story. While it may have actually read XXXdb, it may have done so at 1 frequency. If you average the output across all frequencies, it may be several db lower in true output across the board. So we go back again to what do you need and where and what do the specs say?

The truth is that all the above mentioned speakers will perform relatively well in respect to one another. My bet would be that the one that has the loudest spec, will be the loudest ( at the frequencies that make that level of output ). So if all the speakers in this line up are within 10hz of each other in either direction and within 3db of each other in peak output, they may as well be the same unless you are looking for something specific. What is that? All the speakers you have presented are within 3db of each other BTW. Given that 3db is not the end all be all, you can almost flip a coin. I went with the SRX-818 because it was the only one that had user configurable DSP and my experience with the new SRX line has shown that it is a very serious line, is affordable and was not fluffing the numbers much if at all.

Excellent! Thank you. Great info there. I am looking for a "best of all worlds" setup. This system will be used indoor in 200 seat venues, outdoor at "vocal competitions", community events, DJ gigs, etc. I would sacrifice the very low frequency for overall output. I too am looking seriously at the SRX 818sp-SRX815 combo on polls. Nice to be able to transport it via mini-van instead of having to haul everything in the truck as well....
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Ivan Beaver on February 11, 2018, 08:17:39 pm
It was Lance Richens, and yes, I am looking at the SPL.
One thing that is often overlooked is at what freq is the max SPL determined?  In many cases it is NOT in what people would consider the "sub range"

Here is a little "litmus" test regarding specs.

Consider that 1000 watts is a 30dB gain in level.

So let's pick an imaginary speaker.

Let's say it claims 134dB peak SPL, has a 1000 watt amp and a single 18" driver.

So if you subtract the gain of the amp (30dB) from the peak SPL, you have a sensitivity at 1 watt of 104dB.

Have you EVER seen a front loaded single 18" sub that had 104dB sensitivity around 104dB-down in the usage range of the cabinet?

It would typically be around 96dB (give or take a little).

So yes, the cabinet may produce the SPL it is rated at, but often NOT at the freq range you will be using it in.

You MUST look a bit deeper than a "simple single SPL number", to accurately compare data.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 11, 2018, 08:31:34 pm
It was Lance Richens, and yes, I am looking at the SPL.

Your old account is still active, the user name is Lancester. If you need me to reset the password I can.

Mac
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 08:32:53 pm
One thing that is often overlooked is at what freq is the max SPL determined?  In many cases it is NOT in what people would consider the "sub range"

Here is a little "litmus" test regarding specs.

Consider that 1000 watts is a 30dB gain in level.

So let's pick an imaginary speaker.

Let's say it claims 134dB peak SPL, has a 1000 watt amp and a single 18" driver.

So if you subtract the gain of the amp (30dB) from the peak SPL, you have a sensitivity at 1 watt of 104dB.

Have you EVER seen a front loaded single 18" sub that had 104dB sensitivity around 104dB-down in the usage range of the cabinet?

It would typically be around 96dB (give or take a little).

So yes, the cabinet may produce the SPL it is rated at, but often NOT at the freq range you will be using it in.

You MUST look a bit deeper than a "simple single SPL number", to accurately compare data.


Very good point! Thank you
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 08:33:48 pm
Your old account is still active, the user name is Lancester. If you need me to reset the password I can.

Mac

OK, thanks. I will do away with this username as soon as this thread plays out....
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 11, 2018, 09:20:33 pm
OK, thanks. I will do away with this username as soon as this thread plays out....

PM me another email address I can send the temporary password to. I can't update the old account without an email address that does not belong to someone else.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 09:29:58 pm
PM me another email address I can send the temporary password to. I can't update the old account without an email address that does not belong to someone else.

Sent. Thanks
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Mal Brown on February 11, 2018, 10:08:07 pm
Lance, I have 4 kw-181’s.  Love ‘em.  They are hot in the rental market and are seemingly indestructible.  Yes, they will get loud.  I honestly don’t think there is much difference in sub’s of this class.

My ‘big’ rig uses horn loaded subs with 12’s. A clean 500 watts into each - they smoke the 181’s ...

Mine are EAW LA400’s. They are ah, truck pack friendly...  not small in other words.


If it were me I’d be looking for a set of JTR Growlers or similar smaller form factor horn and get busy with some DsP to align the tops.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 10:18:23 pm
Lance, I have 4 kw-181’s.  Love ‘em.  They are hot in the rental market and are seemingly indestructible.  Yes, they will get loud.  I honestly don’t think there is much difference in sub’s of this class.

My ‘big’ rig uses horn loaded subs with 12’s. A clean 500 watts into each - they smoke the 181’s ...

Mine are EAW LA400’s. They are ah, truck pack friendly...  not small in other words.


If it were me I’d be looking for a set of JTR Growlers or similar smaller form factor horn and get busy with some DsP to align the tops.

Great advice! Thanks
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Mac Kerr on February 11, 2018, 10:26:30 pm
Great advice! Thanks

Lance, do you have another email address. The one you sent me is the one you are already registered at.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 10:28:05 pm
Lance, do you have another email address. The one you sent me is the one you are already registered at.

Whoops. New pm sent
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Steve Crump on February 11, 2018, 10:39:28 pm
Since a sub other than an 18” has been mentioned. The JTR Captivator 212 Pro is a great option to look at within these specs.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 10:55:59 pm
Since a sub other than an 18” has been mentioned. The JTR Captivator 212 Pro is a great option to look at within these specs.

Those look great, but I already have 4 SRX 728's. I'm looking for a small form factor, front loaded, powered sub that comes in not heavier than 110 lbs or so and is set up to pole mount a mid/hi cabinet....
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Steve Crump on February 11, 2018, 11:04:52 pm
Those look great, but I already have 4 SRX 728's. I'm looking for a small form factor, front loaded, powered sub that comes in not heavier than 110 lbs or so and is set up to pole mount a mid/hi cabinet....

http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-212pro.html

It’s pretty small, smaller than some of the single 18s listed, front loaded, 75 pounds, active, has a center pole socket.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on February 11, 2018, 11:19:42 pm
What about the Bassboss SSP118, it's a touch over your maximum weight but appears to have a real output advantage over the JBL 818. Here is a link to a comparison graph of those two boxes. https://www.bassboss.com/discussion-community/?p=post%2Fssp118-powered-subwoofer-vs-the-jbl-srx818-sub-7843671 (https://www.bassboss.com/discussion-community/?p=post%2Fssp118-powered-subwoofer-vs-the-jbl-srx818-sub-7843671)
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 11:28:10 pm
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-212pro.html

It’s pretty small, smaller than some of the single 18s listed, front loaded, 75 pounds, active, has a center pole socket.

My bad, I thought it was a 2 18" box
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Robert Lunceford on February 11, 2018, 11:33:23 pm
Hi Lance,
The most compact, lightest, 18" powered sub that I know of is the K-Array KMT18 Thunder.
It is in the pro class (not MI) and is priced accordingly.

Here are the manufacturers published specs:
18.3" X 18.3" X 23.46"
60.84 lbs.
30-150Hz -3dB
Max SPL 130dB(cont) 136dB(peak)
1W/1Meter 99dB

https://www.k-array.com/phocadownload/Products/Portable/KMT18/KMT18_I_Datasheet_Ver2_Rev0.pdf
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 11:37:37 pm
What about the Bassboss SSP118, it's a touch over your maximum weight but appears to have a real output advantage over the JBL 818. Here is a link to a comparison graph of those two boxes. https://www.bassboss.com/discussion-community/?p=post%2Fssp118-powered-subwoofer-vs-the-jbl-srx818-sub-7843671 (https://www.bassboss.com/discussion-community/?p=post%2Fssp118-powered-subwoofer-vs-the-jbl-srx818-sub-7843671)

WOW! Those sound like they'd be amazing. However the price is just too high for me. I can buy two JBL's for the price of one of those monsters. If price was no issue, I would definitely give them a try....
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Richens Lance on February 11, 2018, 11:48:20 pm
Hi Lance,
The most compact, lightest, 18" powered sub that I know of is the K-Array KMT18 Thunder.
It is in the pro class (not MI) and is priced accordingly.

Here are the manufacturers published specs:
18.3" X 18.3" X 23.46"
60.84 lbs.
30-150Hz -3dB
Max SPL 130dB(cont) 136dB(peak)
1W/1Meter 99dB

https://www.k-array.com/phocadownload/Products/Portable/KMT18/KMT18_I_Datasheet_Ver2_Rev0.pdf

Another super nice box! I like all the built in flexibility and options. But sadly, way out of my price range.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Johan Falt on February 12, 2018, 02:18:45 am
What about Yamaha DXS18
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Peter Morris on February 12, 2018, 03:21:42 am
Here are a few more suggestions ...

RCF 8004 – 136 dB peak http://www.rcf.it/c/document_library/get_file?p_l_id=8957959&folderId=4259617&name=DLFE-23316.pdf

Dual 15 from Fulcrum similar size to a single 18” - 143 dB peak  http://fulcrum-acoustic.com/assets/pdf/Spec%20Sheets/Prod%20Spec,%20TS215ac%20v4.pdf

dB Technologies VIO S118 – 139 dB peak http://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/products/vio/vio-s118r-p4851.aspx
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on February 12, 2018, 04:21:13 am
When it comes to subwoofer designs, Hoffman's Iron Law is forever at play: small size, deep bass, high output. Pick any two.
You can push the boundry by using increasingly expensive drivers, but that will only get you so far.

With a fixed size, weight and approximate driver/amp quality, the way to get louder is to sacrifice some low-frequency extension.

If you can DIY, you might well find you can get more bang for your buck than buying something ready-made.

Chris
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Chris Hindle on February 12, 2018, 08:18:18 am
When it comes to subwoofer designs, Hoffman's Iron Law is forever at play: small size, deep bass, high output. Pick any two.
You can push the boundry by using increasingly expensive drivers, but that will only get you so far.

With a fixed size, weight and approximate driver/amp quality, the way to get louder is to sacrifice some low-frequency extension.

If you can DIY, you might well find you can get more bang for your buck than buying something ready-made.

Chris
I was going to say:
Low, Loud, Price. Pick 2.
Chris.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Keith Broughton on February 12, 2018, 09:19:44 am
Quote
my first choice would be SRX 818 sp's topped with 815's.
I recently mixed a pop band with 2x818 and 2x 815/side.
Worked fine but for this band, but, a couple more subs would have been nice.
After reading this thread, and your restrictions, the "low-loud-price-pick 2" really applies so just go with the JBL and be happy.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Rob Gow on February 12, 2018, 10:18:01 am
My pair of LS800p's have yet to let me down in over 15 years.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Stu McDoniel on February 12, 2018, 11:50:41 am
Here are a few more suggestions ...

RCF 8004 – 136 dB peak http://www.rcf.it/c/document_library/get_file?p_l_id=8957959&folderId=4259617&name=DLFE-23316.pdf

Dual 15 from Fulcrum similar size to a single 18” - 143 dB peak  http://fulcrum-acoustic.com/assets/pdf/Spec%20Sheets/Prod%20Spec,%20TS215ac%20v4.pdf

dB Technologies VIO S118 – 139 dB peak http://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/products/vio/vio-s118r-p4851.aspx
I would say +1 on the RCF 8004 AS.    A friend has an install biz and he said hey give this sub a listen when I was back in his warehouse.   WOW that sub puts out in a big way.  Powersoft amplifier on board.  Very impressive sub.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Scott Olewiler on February 12, 2018, 11:54:15 am
My pair of LS800p's have yet to let me down in over 15 years.

If you want loud, this is probably the actual loudest box in the price range you are looking at. The USC1P is also a very loud box  and better sounding IMO, but out of production. I have owned both.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Lance Hallmark on February 12, 2018, 12:46:07 pm
If you want loud, this is probably the actual loudest box in the price range you are looking at. The USC1P is also a very loud box  and better sounding IMO, but out of production. I have owned both.

The updated version of the LS800, the ES18p is a bit narrower and easier to pack a pair into an SUV or van. Comparable output, still one of the loudest subs in this size/price range. may go a bit lower than the LS series, plus wireless DSP.

For your size, weight, & price requirements you may as well go with the JBLs you have already stated you like. There's not a huge difference in the brands you've listed at this level and the JBLs are proven and solid.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Steve Garris on February 12, 2018, 01:23:57 pm
Excellent! Thank you. Great info there. I am looking for a "best of all worlds" setup. This system will be used indoor in 200 seat venues, outdoor at "vocal competitions", community events, DJ gigs, etc. I would sacrifice the very low frequency for overall output. I too am looking seriously at the SRX 818sp-SRX815 combo on polls. Nice to be able to transport it via mini-van instead of having to haul everything in the truck as well....

I have the SRX system that you are considering. I use it mostly for rock bands in 300 seat clubs, and a summer concert in the park series, where we have up to 1000 attending. The boxes sound fantastic, and are typically run with a flat EQ using the factory settings. You can drive them hard, limiting, and they still sound great. They're light enough for one person to lift (barely), and pack well in my minivan along with 5-6 monitors and other gear. The 815 tops get really loud. The sub's sound great, very musical, but they sound their best when pushed together. These boxes require a lot of output from the board, very different from my PRX system.

One negative about the 818 is hat the form factor doesn't lend itself to one-man operation very well. The handles are on the sides, and are designed for two people to lift. I remedied this by putting strong rubber feet on the side of each box. I can tip them up on their sides, and hand truck them to the van. I then grab the handles that are now facing up, and dead-lift them up to the van. This has made them much more manageable.

The tops are heavy too. I recommend a better than average speaker pole. After experimenting with a few, I went with the K&M's with the expanding mandrel.

Of the brands you listed, given that price point, I would certainly go with the JBL. The QSC subs sound good to me, but I don't like the KW tops. Can't speak to the RCF.  YMMV.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Dave Batistig on February 12, 2018, 01:45:21 pm
Now on the surface this is going to seem like another repetitive, possibly juvenile subject. However, hopefully it will not end up that way.
With the summer season looming I am in need of replacing my "smaller system". I plan to buy a pair of single 18' powered subs and a pair of single 15" plus horn tops, also powered.
I want to purchase a system with the highest output possible. Being a "JBL guy", my first choice would be SRX 818 sp's topped with 815's. I need a top boxes like these as they will also get used as standalone's on many occasions.
I am looking at JBL, EV, QSC, and RCF. Here's the thing. The SRX800sp is only "rated" at 1000 watts, yet has basically the same SPL rating as the others. Suggestions and advice here would be appreciated. I will probably go with the "tops" from whichever sub manufacturer I go with.


Here are the spec's on subs:


JBL SRX818SP Subwoofer Specifications
•System Type: Self powered 18", subwoofer system
•Maximum SPL Output: 135dB
•Frequency Range (-10dB): 35hz - 120khz
•Frequency Response (- 3dB): 29hz - 150khz
•System Power Rating: 1000W Peak , 750W Continuous
•Input Impedance: 40k balanced, 20k unbalanced
•Line Input Gain: 21 dB
•Consumer Input Gain: 33 dB
•Max Input Level: Line: 20dBu, Consumer: 8dBu
•Connectors: Neutrik 1/4 - XLR input; Neutrik XLR Output
•LED Indicators: Power LED (Green), Network Link (Green), Network Data (Yellow)
•Cooling: On-Demand variable speed fan
•AC Power Input: 100V - 240V 50/60Hz
•AC Power Consumption (120V): 2.2A (1/8th Power), 5.6A (1/3rd Power)
•LF Driver: 2279F
•Crossover Frequency: 80hz
•Enclosure Material: 18mm plywood
•Suspension/Mounting: M20 Threaded Pole Mount
•Handles: 4
•Finish: Obsidian Duraflex finish
•Grille: Powder coated, Obsidian, 14-gauge perforated steel with acoustically transparent black cloth backing
•Dimensions (L x W x H): 26.89 x 26.92 x 22.62" (683 x 684 x 575mm)
•Weight: 87.0 lbs (39.5kg)
•Shipping Weight: 103 lbs (46.8kg)
•Accessories: Power Cable, Quickstart Guide

QSC KW181 Loudspeaker Powered PA Subwoofer Specifications
•Configuration: 18 inches subwoofer
•Transducer:18 inches cone transducer
•Frequency Response (-6 dB): 43 Hz - 97 kHz
•Frequency Range (-10 dB): 39 Hz - 145 Hz
•Maximum SPL (1 meter): 132 dB peak
•Power Output: 1000 W Class D continuous
•Input Impedance (ohms): XLR / ¼": 38k balanced / 19k unbalanced
•Controls:  ◦Power
◦Gain
◦LF Mode (Normal/DEEP)
◦Polarity (Normal/Reverse)
◦Front LED (On/Off/Limit)

•Indicators: Power, Signal, Standby, Limit
•Connectors: Dual balanced female XLR/¼" line level input, Dual Balanced male XLR full range line level out, Remote gain control, Locking IEC power connector
•Cooling: On demand, 50 mm variable speed fan
•Amplifier Protection: Thermal limiting, output overcurrent, overtemperature muting, GuardRail
•Transducer Protection: Thermal limiting, excursion limiting
•AC Power Input: Universal power supply 100 - 240 VAC, 50 - 60 Hz
•AC Power Consumption (1/8 Power): ◦100 VAC, 2.3 A
◦120 VAC, 2.01 A
◦230 VAC, 1.13 A

•Material: 15 mm painted birch plywood
•Finish: Black textured paint
•Grille: Black powder coated 16 gauge steel
•Dimensions (HxWxD): 20.1 x 23.4 x 29.9 inches with casters (510 mm x 595 mm x 761 mm with casters)
•Weight (Net): 83 pounds (37.6 kg)

Electro Voice ETX-18P Powered PA Speaker Specifications
 •Frequency Response: 33 Hz – 150 Hz
•Frequency Range: 28 Hz – 180 Hz
•Maximum SPL: 135 dB peak
•Power Rating: 1800 W
•LF Transducer: DVX3180A 18 inch
•Low Pass Frequency: Adjustable: 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz, 150Hz
•Connectors: (2) XLR/TRS combo jack and (2) XLR link output
•Enclosure: 18-mm, 13-ply birch plywood with EVCoat
•Grille: 16AWG steel with powdercoat
•Dimensions (HxWxD): 22 x 27 x 36 inches (550x675x910mm)
•Weight: 114.2 lb (51.8 kg)

RCF SUB 8003AS 18" 2200 Watt Powered Subwoofer Specifications
 •ACOUSTICAL SPECIFICATIONS:
◦Frequency Response -3 dB: 35 Hz ÷ 120 Hz
◦Max SPL: 133 dB
◦Woofer: 18 inch, 4 inch voice coil

•INPUT/OUTPUT SECTION
◦Input connectors: Stereo XLR
◦Output connectors: Stereo XLR
◦Input sensitivity: -2 dBu / + 4 dBu

•PROCESSOR SECTION:
◦Crossover frequencies: Selectable Hz
◦Protections: thermal, rms
◦Limiter: dynamic limiter
◦Controls: Gain,EQ, phase, xover, delay, cardioid

•AMPLIFIER SPECIFICATIONS:
◦Total power: 2200 W PEAK
◦Low frequencies: 2000 W PEAK
◦Total power: 1100 W RMS
◦Low frequencies: 1100 W RMS
◦Cooling: Convection
◦Connections: Powercon in-out

•CABINET:
◦Cabinet Material: Baltic birch plywood
◦Handles: 2 side
◦Pole Mount/Cap: Yes
◦Grille: Steel
◦Color: Black

•Dimensions (HxWxD): 27.32 x 20.59 x 27.56 inches
•Weight: 95.90 lbs


JBL VRX918SP 18 Inch High Powered Subwoofer Specifications
•Power Rating   1500 Watts Peak LF: Dual-Bridged Technology™, Class D
•Frequency Range   31 Hz – 220 Hz
•Dimensions (H x W x D)   508 mm x 597 mm x 749 mm (20.0 in x 23.5 in x 29.5 in)
•Frequency Response   34 Hz – 220 Hz
•Maximum Peak Output   126 dB SPL at 1m
•Bandpass Nominal Impedance LF: 2 x 2 ohms
•LF Driver   1 x JBL 2268FF 457 mm (18 in) dual voice coil, Differential Drive® woofer with neodymium-magnet
•Audio Input Connector   XLR with loop through
•User Controls:
Input Attenuator (0-16 dB) ◦Selectable 80 Hz or 120 Hz Low Pass
◦80 Hz High-Pass enable/disable for XLR loop thru.
•Signal Processing   DSP based, resident in Input Module
•System Management   DSP based limiters for mechanical and thermal protection
•AC Power Operating Range   90-132 VAC or 216-264 VAC, 50/60Hz
•AC Line Voltage   User selectable: 120V/240V (-15%, +10%)
•AC Input Connector   Neutrik PowerCon (NAC 3MPA)
•AC Loop Through Connector   Neutrik PowerCon (NAC 3MPB)
•AC Current Requirements   6A per system at 120V, 3A per system at 240V
•Enclosure   18 mm birch plywood.
•Suspension / Mounting   Optional VRX-AF line-array frame kit or 10 mm forged eyebolts
•Finish   Black DuraFlex™ finish
•Grille   Powder coated, black, 16-gauge perforated steel with acoustically transparent foam
•Net Weight   38.5 kg (85 lb)

Did you look at the RCF SUB8004? Higher output than the 8003, still single 18"

http://www.rcf.it/en_US/professional-speaker-systems/sub-series/sub-8004-as
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Jeff Foster on February 12, 2018, 03:52:45 pm
What about Yamaha DXS18

I'll echo the suggestion to look at the Yamaha DXS18.  We got one for our portable church a few months back and it is very, very impressive.  I've used JBL PRX and QSC KW subs (to compare a couple others in that market segment) and I like the Yamaha sub better than either of those other options.   We use just one in a 600+ seat school auditorium each week and it easily fills the room.  If we didn't have to set up and tear down each week, I'd love to add a second one just for the added displacement.

We also went with the Yamaha DSR112's for tops, partly based on multiple posts here discussing how good they are.  They are arguably the best powered speakers in the segment, and the size, weight, and output all fit our needs very well.
 
The Yamaha stuff doesn't get as much press as the more common names, but they can easily keep up with, and even outperform, the more common offerings that are widely used nowadays.
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on February 13, 2018, 05:37:55 am
Go to the gym and work out ( A Lot! ) . Then buy a Yorkville Ls2100p ;-)  http://yorkville.com/subwoofers/elite/product/ls2100p/

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Callan Browne on February 13, 2018, 06:29:07 am
The 812's are a bit lighter/smaller than the 815's - I'm not sure if you've already considered them.

Both should also match up great with your srx728's if you need more than a pair of 18" subs, but want to leave the rest of the 'big rig' at home.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Chris Eddison on February 13, 2018, 06:49:43 am
Does the FBT X SUB 18SA fit the bill at all? I'm looking at replacing my set of 4 RCF ESW1018's (I never use all 4 at once!) and am toying with these as a much easier to shift alternative. I had the pleasure of mixing on an FBT Muse line array rig a couple of weeks ago and had previously dismissive of the brand, but the experience really changed my mind and i'm looking in to the brand further.
Might be worth a listen? I'd certainly be up for hearing more people's thoughts on them. There appears to be an FBT USA. This link is to the main website though;
http://www.fbt.it/en/products/xsub/x-sub-18sa
Title: Re: Highest Output Powered Single 18" sub....
Post by: Scott Holtzman on February 13, 2018, 01:07:42 pm
Does the FBT X SUB 18SA fit the bill at all? I'm looking at replacing my set of 4 RCF ESW1018's (I never use all 4 at once!) and am toying with these as a much easier to shift alternative. I had the pleasure of mixing on an FBT Muse line array rig a couple of weeks ago and had previously dismissive of the brand, but the experience really changed my mind and i'm looking in to the brand further.
Might be worth a listen? I'd certainly be up for hearing more people's thoughts on them. There appears to be an FBT USA. This link is to the main website though;
http://www.fbt.it/en/products/xsub/x-sub-18sa

I share your experience with the Muse 210LA.  I have not heard the x-sub.  We should probably get a demo in.  Right now using Meyer 650R2's we already had.