ProSoundWeb Community

Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Wireless and Communications => Topic started by: Rick Earl on January 01, 2018, 11:22:02 am

Title: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Rick Earl on January 01, 2018, 11:22:02 am
This popped up in my browser, I've never heard of the brand, not sure how the specs compare, it is from monoprice,  but the price looks good. 

OWON - XSA-1015 Spectrum Analyzer


https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10432&cs_id=1043201&p_id=30623&seq=1&format=2 (https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10432&cs_id=1043201&p_id=30623&seq=1&format=2)
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Keith Broughton on January 01, 2018, 11:45:00 am
Nice price :)
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 01, 2018, 02:24:21 pm
Damn, I wish I hadn't blown my holiday budget on hookers and blow... /sarc

That IS a nice price... :)
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on January 01, 2018, 05:05:54 pm
The owanna.com linked on the spec sheet is not valid, but the lilliput (http://lilliputweb.net/digital-oscilloscope/spectrum-analyzer.html) site shows two versions, the other with a little higher frequency range than we'd probably need.

FWIW, I've had mostly good luck with a variety of Monoprice products, although nothing like this. Oh, and Amazon (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07593W55Q/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1) has it, too. Same price, free shipping.

Can someone interpret the spec sheet (https://downloads.monoprice.com/files/specsheets/30623_Specsheet_170528.pdf) and tell us what you think, at least as it compares to other analyzers starting with RF Explorer and going up?

It uses N connector as RF in/out, so there's an adaptor to BNC needed.

EDIT: Here's another one (https://smile.amazon.com/Rigol-DSA815-TG-Tracking-Generator-Spectrum/dp/B00CLWJA38/ref=lp_5011671011_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1514844522&sr=1-2) on Amazon that looks like almost the same front panel layout with a couple insightful reviews.
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on January 02, 2018, 08:52:36 am
The owanna.com linked on the spec sheet is not valid, but the lilliput (http://lilliputweb.net/digital-oscilloscope/spectrum-analyzer.html) site shows two versions, the other with a little higher frequency range than we'd probably need.

FWIW, I've had mostly good luck with a variety of Monoprice products, although nothing like this. Oh, and Amazon (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07593W55Q/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1) has it, too. Same price, free shipping.

Can someone interpret the spec sheet (https://downloads.monoprice.com/files/specsheets/30623_Specsheet_170528.pdf) and tell us what you think, at least as it compares to other analyzers starting with RF Explorer and going up?

It uses N connector as RF in/out, so there's an adaptor to BNC needed.

EDIT: Here's another one (https://smile.amazon.com/Rigol-DSA815-TG-Tracking-Generator-Spectrum/dp/B00CLWJA38/ref=lp_5011671011_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1514844522&sr=1-2) on Amazon that looks like almost the same front panel layout with a couple insightful reviews.
Owon and Rigol are Asian test equipment brands. Rigol has a significant following in the hobbyist world. I have a very nice oscilloscope from Rigol (DS-1074Z). The Rigol analyzer gets good reviews and a better price on tequipment.net which is a good dealer:

https://www.tequipment.net/RigolDSA815.html

I have no personal experience with either spectrum analyzers but based on other products, I would rather have the Rigol.
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on January 03, 2018, 04:12:32 am
I have a couple of DSA815's from Rigol, and they are fantastic. Reliable, accurate and easy to use.

Highly recommended
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on January 03, 2018, 07:38:37 pm
The Rigol analyzer gets good reviews and a better price on tequipment.net which is a good dealer:

https://www.tequipment.net/RigolDSA815.html

That one doesn't have the tracking generator, which may not be useful in our world? The one that does (https://www.tequipment.net/RigolDSA815-TG.html?rrec=true) is the same price as Amazon.

TEquipment seems like a cool site, and it's neat that the Rigol is recognized as useful.

Is the tracking generator useful to us? Is the builtin generator useful in testing cables, or do you need an outboard generator? Or something else?

I got the little RF Explorer generator and was surprised there was nothing equivalent to a pink/white noise generator in it. Isn't having some kind of broadband signal more helpful than a specific frequency in evaluating something like cable?
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Mac Kerr on January 03, 2018, 08:49:02 pm
Is the tracking generator useful to us? Is the builtin generator useful in testing cables, or do you need an outboard generator? Or something else?

I have to admit that I'm not an expert on tracking generators, but I think it is used (among other uses I'm sure) to document the frequency response of a DUT, of special interest to most of us, cables.

For the price o a tti that analyzer with a bigger screen and a tracking generator seems pretty attractive.

Mac
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Henry Cohen on January 03, 2018, 09:56:24 pm
Is the tracking generator useful to us? Is the builtin generator useful in testing cables, or do you need an outboard generator? Or something else?

A tracking generator is needed if you want to measure coax cables for proper performance; tuning filters; confirming proper operation of RX multi-couplers, TX combiners, passive splitters/combiners and adapters; basically anything with two ports. Add a directional coupler or return loss bridge and now you can test antennas and terminations.


Quote
I got the little RF Explorer generator and was surprised there was nothing equivalent to a pink/white noise generator in it. Isn't having some kind of broadband signal more helpful than a specific frequency in evaluating something like cable?

The RF Explorer signal generator is an RF signal generator, and a very cheap one at that, not an audio generator. If you want to test for receiver audio demod and SINAD (the RF world equivalent of SNR), you need a communications service monitor or other full test set (and a lot more money).
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Henry Cohen on January 03, 2018, 10:07:47 pm
For the price o a tti that analyzer with a bigger screen and a tracking generator seems pretty attractive.

Only downside is no battery option and no VDC input for an external battery.
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on January 03, 2018, 11:03:57 pm
A tracking generator is needed if you want to measure coax cables for proper performance; tuning filters; confirming proper operation of RX multi-couplers, TX combiners, passive splitters/combiners and adapters; basically anything with two ports. Add a directional coupler or return loss bridge and now you can test antennas and terminations.


The RF Explorer signal generator is an RF signal generator, and a very cheap one at that, not an audio generator. If you want to test for receiver audio demod and SINAD (the RF world equivalent of SNR), you need a communications service monitor or other full test set (and a lot more money).

Henry's response is very complete however I wanted to elaborate on the tracking generator.  It generates a signal on one frequency of whatever width is specified and then sweeps that through the range of the analyzer.  The analyzer holds the image on the screen so you can see the loss of signal at each specific frequency.  Very useful for visualizing loss through cable and tuning filters. 

A respectable service monitor with a tracking generator is not that much more.  There is an HP8920A with Option 2 (tracking generator) on eBay for 2k OBO.  This is one of the finest service monitors ever built.  Even runs HP Instrument Basic so you can write automated tests.  It is a heavy piece of gear. 
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Dan Mortensen on January 04, 2018, 02:58:04 pm
The RF Explorer signal generator is an RF signal generator, and a very cheap one at that, not an audio generator.

Yes, I realized that one generates audio frequencies and one generates RF frequencies (is that redundant?), but assumed there was some kind of RF signal that was broadband like white/pink noise so that all of the spectrum is covered in a test rather than a single frequency with its slopes on either side.

It generates a signal on one frequency of whatever width is specified and then sweeps that through the range of the analyzer.  The analyzer holds the image on the screen so you can see the loss of signal at each specific frequency.  Very useful for visualizing loss through cable and tuning filters. 

That makes sense. However, if the analyzer I'm using is something exactly like Vantage, which as near as I can tell operates independently of the generator and has no idea of the generator's progression from one frequency to another, then it will be coincidence rather than intentional when the frequency generated coincides with the analyzer's view. The only way I've figured out on Vantage to get it to hold view is to use the Scan function set to View Maximums.

I confess I didn't look more closely at the sweep function on the RFE generator but will do so when I get back to my RF studies, which have taken a hiatus due to holiday, work, and AES Section responsibilities.

A respectable service monitor with a tracking generator is not that much more.  There is an HP8920A with Option 2 (tracking generator) on eBay for 2k OBO.  This is one of the finest service monitors ever built.  Even runs HP Instrument Basic so you can write automated tests.  It is a heavy piece of gear. 

As a newbie, I'd be scared to get a device off eBay that would be so pivotal to my work, which makes me also realize that I will not be like you guys with extensive and frequent needs to coordinate hundreds of devices. How could you be sure that it worked as needed?

I just want to use as automated a scanner, analyzer, and frequency coordination devices and software as possible to get within a small ballpark of having up to 50 transmitters and receivers work together. It seems like the RF Explorer/Vantage/WWB combo will be sufficient based on how many working people find it adequate for their needs.

It is fun to look at cool gear, though, and gratifying that the OP's thread has uncovered another well-regarded gizmo or two. TEquipment had a linked manual for the Rigol and it was interesting to read through it.

Perhaps more experience will make clear the need for more complex devices, which has often been the case IME.
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Scott Helmke on January 04, 2018, 03:02:59 pm
However, if the analyzer I'm using is something exactly like Vantage, which as near as I can tell operates independently of the generator and has no idea of the generator's progression from one frequency to another, then it will be coincidence rather than intentional when the frequency generated coincides with the analyzer's view. The only way I've figured out on Vantage to get it to hold view is to use the Scan function set to View Maximums.

The important part of the name is "tracking". It's part of the same piece of test gear, and it generates a signal at the same frequency as the spectrum sweep. So it gives the effective equivalent to an audio RTA measuring pink noise.

Very useful thing in the shop if you do much wireless - we've got a refurb FSH 3.13, and I use it quite a lot to test cables and other stuff.
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Brad Harris on January 04, 2018, 04:17:37 pm
Take a look at their site, it has some articles that you could apply to solve your issue (tracking generator)

http://j3.rf-explorer.com/43-rfe/how-to/145-how-to-sna-measuring-rf-filter-response-step-by-step

BRad



Yes, I realized that one generates audio frequencies and one generates RF frequencies (is that redundant?), but assumed there was some kind of RF signal that was broadband like white/pink noise so that all of the spectrum is covered in a test rather than a single frequency with its slopes on either side.

That makes sense. However, if the analyzer I'm using is something exactly like Vantage, which as near as I can tell operates independently of the generator and has no idea of the generator's progression from one frequency to another, then it will be coincidence rather than intentional when the frequency generated coincides with the analyzer's view. The only way I've figured out on Vantage to get it to hold view is to use the Scan function set to View Maximums.

I confess I didn't look more closely at the sweep function on the RFE generator but will do so when I get back to my RF studies, which have taken a hiatus due to holiday, work, and AES Section responsibilities.

As a newbie, I'd be scared to get a device off eBay that would be so pivotal to my work, which makes me also realize that I will not be like you guys with extensive and frequent needs to coordinate hundreds of devices. How could you be sure that it worked as needed?

I just want to use as automated a scanner, analyzer, and frequency coordination devices and software as possible to get within a small ballpark of having up to 50 transmitters and receivers work together. It seems like the RF Explorer/Vantage/WWB combo will be sufficient based on how many working people find it adequate for their needs.

It is fun to look at cool gear, though, and gratifying that the OP's thread has uncovered another well-regarded gizmo or two. TEquipment had a linked manual for the Rigol and it was interesting to read through it.

Perhaps more experience will make clear the need for more complex devices, which has often been the case IME.
Title: Re: Anybody familiar with this spectrum analyzer?
Post by: Keith Broughton on January 04, 2018, 04:58:22 pm
Take a look at their site, it has some articles that you could apply to solve your issue (tracking generator)

http://j3.rf-explorer.com/43-rfe/how-to/145-how-to-sna-measuring-rf-filter-response-step-by-step

BRad
Interesting video. They have a loss test (VSWR?) as well.
There is an RF Explorer combo kit for under $600 CDN on Amazon.
A good kit for the "average" user.
Oh, and those little cables?...$25 each!