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Title: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 04, 2017, 04:23:55 pm
We are running sound at a charity event on saturday and the organizer asked me what generator she should get. I told her it must be inverter and to check out EU6500 or EU7000 or similar.
I just got a message from her indicating it will be this one.

Whisperwatt 45KvA
50A cable and spider box.

I am used to using inverter generators and want to make sure I am not getting dirty power to my equipment. 

I'll be using 1x SRX828sp, 2 x SRX818sp, 2x SRX815, 2x SRX812 (side areas), 4 PRX712's, QU mixer, D- snake.
Band will have backline - guitar amp, bass amp, also keys.
Laptop, iPod and small accessories.


OOPS - sorry PLUS 16 LED PAR Cans.- 8 x 120w and 8 x 70w
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 04, 2017, 04:34:21 pm
We are running sound at a charity event on saturday and the organizer asked me what generator she should get. I told her it must be inverter and to check out EU6500 or EU7000 or similar.
I just got a message from her indicating it will be this one.

Whisperwatt 45KvA
50A cable and spider box.

I am used to using inverter generators and want to make sure I am not getting dirty power to my equipment. 

I'll be using 1x SRX828sp, 2 x SRX818sp, 2x SRX815, 2x SRX812 (side areas), 4 PRX712's, QU mixer, D- snake.
Band will have backline - guitar amp, bass amp, also keys.
Laptop, iPod and small accessories.


OOPS - sorry PLUS 16 LED PAR Cans.- 8 x 120w and 8 x 70w

The Whisperwatt comes in a lot of flavors but in general is the type of genset I call a "real generator" when I post about portable power.

It's a real sine wave output with good voltage regulation.  You should be fine.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 04, 2017, 04:42:13 pm
The Whisperwatt comes in a lot of flavors but in general is the type of genset I call a "real generator" when I post about portable power.

It's a real sine wave output with good voltage regulation.  You should be fine.

Phew - thanks Tim.

Will it be man enough to run everything?... We won't need crazy levels- just parking lot -but fills needed for the sides so I will have to use 4 tops , I'd normally use 2 for a small outdoor show. Also I might not need all the lighting but just in case.
I see the specs show 36KW.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on October 04, 2017, 04:46:21 pm
Phew - thanks Tim.

Will it be man enough to run everything?... We won't need crazy levels- just parking lot -but fills needed for the sides so I will have to use 4 tops , I'd normally use 2 for a small outdoor show. Also I might not need all the lighting but just in case.
I see the specs show 36KW.
36KW is equal to 15 20A circuits. 

Could you run your gear off of that?  I imagine so, with PLENTY of outlets left over.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 04, 2017, 04:48:32 pm
Phew - thanks Tim.

Will it be man enough to run everything?... We won't need crazy levels- just parking lot -but fills needed for the sides so I will have to use 4 tops , I'd normally use 2 for a small outdoor show. Also I might not need all the lighting but just in case.
I see the specs show 36KW.

Chances are that generator has a 100Ampere main breaker.  You'll not be overloading it.  In fact, you might want to throw in some incandescent lights ( a couple of 1000W flood lights or PAR cans) to provide additional load to stabilize the engine/voltage regulation.  If your dynamic load makes the genset speed up, you'll get more voltage swing as it revs up and down; providing additional loading will help with that.

Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on October 04, 2017, 04:50:30 pm
The Whisperwatt comes in a lot of flavors but in general is the type of genset I call a "real generator" when I post about portable power.

It's a real sine wave output with good voltage regulation.  You should be fine.
Totally agreed.

I have run many shows off of a Whisperwatt, and they just sit there and "purr".

I've never had a problem with noise or dropouts.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Rob Spence on October 04, 2017, 05:02:34 pm
Totally agreed.

I have run many shows off of a Whisperwatt, and they just sit there and "purr".

I've never had a problem with noise or dropouts.

+1
I love those.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 04, 2017, 05:11:28 pm
36KW is equal to 15 20A circuits. 

Could you run your gear off of that?  I imagine so, with PLENTY of outlets left over.

Ha ha.... I figured it was enough but didn't want to miss any decimal points.....
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Dave Guilford on October 04, 2017, 05:12:42 pm
Dude that whisper watt will make those little hondas look like a load of bananas.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 04, 2017, 05:23:20 pm
Dude that whisper watt will make those little hondas look like a load of bananas.

 ::)
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on October 04, 2017, 05:26:50 pm
Dude-ette...
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: kel mcguire on October 04, 2017, 06:43:25 pm
Usually these kinds of events use a rental service like United Rentals to provide a gennie for the day, sometimes its a donated unit from an in-kind supporter. Good places like United Rentals generally meter their units. But, I'd at least check the voltage and polarity. Is there a spider box supplied near the stage? I've been told of a "huge generator" for the stage but there's no spider box, only the two Edison 15a
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Jamin Lynch on October 04, 2017, 06:44:34 pm
We often use a Whisperwatt 25K for shows with no issues. More than enough, even with our full production.

We always bring our own distro which has a 50amp California plug though. We've had issues with the distros that come from the generator rental companies.

Thoroughly test your power before plugging in of course.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Don T. Williams on October 04, 2017, 06:59:09 pm
Debbie, this is a "real" generator.  It should be fine if 100 amps of power will work for your rig (and from what I see, I don't know why it shouldn't).  Just use the usual caution to make certain the spider box outlets are at the voltages they should be.  Usually even if it is a three phase generator with multiple voltage settings, the spider boxes run off a separate part of the alternator and are 120/240 V from a 50A twist lock.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 04, 2017, 07:08:16 pm
Oh, Debbie... a bit of Old Home (if your old home was in Peterborough, UK) - MQ uses diesel engines from Perkins (or John Deere).
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Jamin Lynch on October 04, 2017, 07:19:26 pm
You want to use my disrto?
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 04, 2017, 07:19:33 pm
Oh, Debbie... a bit of Old Home (if your old home was in Peterborough, UK) - MQ uses diesel engines from Perkins (or John Deere).

That is so cool Tim - yes, Perkins was down the road and my late  father-in-law who passed 2 years ago worked there for over 25 years.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 04, 2017, 07:19:59 pm
They are also supplying 50 amp cable and distro.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 04, 2017, 07:20:13 pm
Dude-ette...

Yes  - ette!
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 04, 2017, 07:21:18 pm
You want to use my disrto?

No thanks Jamin - I have one just like this. ::)
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 04, 2017, 07:22:54 pm
Debbie, this is a "real" generator.  It should be fine if 100 amps of power will work for your rig (and from what I see, I don't know why it shouldn't).  Just use the usual caution to make certain the spider box outlets are at the voltages they should be.  Usually even if it is a three phase generator with multiple voltage settings, the spider boxes run off a separate part of the alternator and are 120/240 V from a 50A twist lock.

Yep....I dont own enough equipment to overload this bad boy. I am so relieved they got a suitable generator, I suppose I am so used to everyone cutting corners... I just freaked a bit- thats all.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Geert Friedhof on October 04, 2017, 08:07:42 pm
Just make sure earth isn't floating and neutral is connected, and you have liitle lighting, or enough lighting. This genny probably will make less noise than the little ones. It is a liitlebit overdimensioned ... Another thing: i hope they don't use it for refrigerators or big coffemachines etc. It should only be used for stage.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Ray Aberle on October 04, 2017, 09:38:16 pm
You want to use my distro?
You know, we giggle about this, but ASSuming you don't draw more than 15A through it, it would work. Especially if you wired one leg to, say, each pair of two receptacles.

[Obligatory disclaimer: DON'T REALLY DO THIS UNLESS YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO USE IT. IT WILL NOT PASS AN INSPECTION, IS AGAINST CODE, AND COULD START A FIRE.]

-Ray
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 04, 2017, 10:20:33 pm
Just make sure earth isn't floating and neutral is connected, and you have liitle lighting, or enough lighting. This genny probably will make less noise than the little ones. It is a liitlebit overdimensioned ... Another thing: i hope they don't use it for refrigerators or big coffemachines etc. It should only be used for stage.

Ah, those pesky details....

Here's a run-down for Debbie and anyone else who's never had to check:

A) While the genset is not running:

1)  Using your Ohm meter, check resistance between any Earthing (ground) connection and the frame of the trailer.  It should be 0 Ohms or so.

2)  Using your Ohm meter, next check resistance between any Earthing connection and any Neutral connection.  It should be 0 Ohms.  This test tells you if the *generator* part of the assembly is bonded.  If so, all is good.  Connect the Earthing rod or electrode array to the "grounding" terminal in the lug bay if the rental shop has not done so already.  If there are more than a couple of Ohms between Earthing and Neutral (like it's OPEN), use a short (12" is plenty) piece of wire as a jumper between the Earthing and Neutral lugs in the lug bay.  Repeat measurement to verify bonding.

3)  Find the Voltage selection switch (usually inside the engine compartment) and make sure it's on either 120/240V single phase or 120/208V 3 phase.  Many gensets have a 480V selection and we *really don't want that*.  Do not change this while the engine is running.  While Don Williams indicates that the 50 Amp connections are fed separately, my experience is contrary.  It's a good thing for you peace of mind, anyway.  Close all doors & access panels.

4)  Gentlemen (and dude-ette), start your engine if there is not a technician or rental guy to do so.  Let the engine come to speed for a minute or 2, while doing so look to see if there is a switch for "Eco-Mode" or "Idle/full speed".  After that bit of warm up, switch to the full speed mode.

B)  Now that we're running:

1)  It's time to check the voltage, so turn on the breaker(s) and use Mr. Voltmeter to measure Hot/Neutral, Hot/Ground (repeat these for each hot leg), Neutral/Ground.  The genset may have switchable voltmeters but they aren't very accurate... You can adjust output voltage (usually a screwdriver adjustment on the control panel, but the newer microprocessor controlled gennies may have up/down buttons or other contrivances) if you find it too high or too low.  If you are unable to adjust to a nominal 120V, see A(3) and A(4) above.

(a)  You should find nominal 120V between each hot leg and neutral, each hot leg and ground, and ZERO Volts between neutral and ground.  If you find more than a couple millivolts there is a problem somewhere, as you have no attached loads at this point, right?  Hmmmm? ;)  At any rate, you should see no voltage between these when metered right at the generator set.

2)  Turn off any circuit breakers you had on for testing, connect the feeder cable to the spider box and the other end of the feeder to the connector on the genset.  Switch the breaker back on and the repeat the voltage test on all the outlets on the spider box.  You may see a small bit of voltage between neutral and ground, typically 10mV - 50mV.  A little more doesn't indicate danger, but lack of maintenance...  You're ready to start plugging in!

The most likely problem you will have is that many/most rental shops do not send out an Earthing electrode or ground rod or the wire to connect it.  When discussing generators with clients who are arranging for the rental & delivery remind them you need those items for the "safety of the performers and to meet Electrical Code."  At one point we carried our own ground rods and wire until enough event rentals were inspected by the AHJ and customers were calling the 24/7 service phone number and the rental shops started provided them upon request.

Now the disclaimer:  The preceding description assumes the reader has sufficient knowledge, experience and education in electricity and other relevant topics to determine if the suggested tests, sequencing of tests and connections, etc is suitable to the circumstances and equipment present.  Reader assumes all personal and property risks and acknowledges that the prededing description is for illustration purposes only.  It is not meant to be a tutorial or to replace professional personnel.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Chris Hindle on October 05, 2017, 10:25:17 am

Whisperwatt 45KvA
50A cable and spider box.

I am used to using inverter generators and want to make sure I am not getting dirty power to my equipment. 


Um... 45KvA compared to your 6 or 7 KvA
You're a smart cookie, and the math is fairly easy.....
Your only problem will be "Can I put enough load on this thing to make it notice i am here?"

Sit back and relax. Power wise, it's an easy, quiet day.
-They will fill the fuel, right ?
Chris.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Craig Hauber on October 05, 2017, 11:26:34 am

Your only problem will be "Can I put enough load on this thing to make it notice i am here?"

MQ is even solving that issue nowadays:

http://www.mqpower.com/powerbalance.html

Never used one with it yet but our local oilfield rental places have them equipped due to the really cold conditions they get used in.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 05, 2017, 11:41:19 am
Um... 45KvA compared to your 6 or 7 KvA
You're a smart cookie, and the math is fairly easy.....
Your only problem will be "Can I put enough load on this thing to make it notice i am here?"

Sit back and relax. Power wise, it's an easy, quiet day.
-They will fill the fuel, right ?
Chris.

Thanks Chris.....to be honest when I read the rating I thought I was calculating incorrectly because I told them what I would need and this is so huge. The only other thing that will be using the genny is a shotgun light - nothing else!

I hope they have the fuel taken care of. I'll check when I get there so if we need gas,  by the time I am set up, someone will have taken care of it - hopefully!
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on October 05, 2017, 12:04:07 pm
Diesel...
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 05, 2017, 12:14:16 pm
Diesel...

Yes - diesel - sorry. It's all gas to me  :(
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 05, 2017, 02:12:41 pm
I'm not sure what to look for and I don't really have the equipment to test for all these things listed.
I always take my 3 prong tester and my non contact voltage tester with me to shows with shore power and I know what to do with my own generators but not sure if they will be any good to me on saturday.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on October 05, 2017, 02:16:28 pm
I'm not sure what to look for and I don't really have the equipment to test for all these things listed.
I always take my 3 prong tester and my non contact voltage tester with me to shows with shore power and I know what to do with my own generators but not sure if they will be any good to me on saturday.
Debbie, it's worth your time to own a basic digital voltmeter, especially when using a larger generator like this which can potentially be incorrectly configured.  Home Depot carries Klein multimeters, and this one for $50 would be a good starter:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Auto-Ranging-Digital-Multi-Meter-MM400/206517333

A basic procedure for receptacle testing is below:

http://tjcornish.com/articles/power-and-electricity-artic/receptacle-testing.html
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on October 05, 2017, 04:23:42 pm
Debbie, it's worth your time to own a basic digital voltmeter,
EVERY sound person should own and carry a simply volt/ohm meter.

There are SOOOOOO many cases where knowing how to measure simple AC and DC voltages (batteries for example), and resistance checks make life SO much easier and faster to troubleshoot.

At the current prices, there really is no excuse.

Heck even the $20 are MUCH better than nothing.

The key thing to remember is that with some, when the internal battery gets to low, they can give VERY wrong information.  Such as AC voltage reading 1/2 of what it should.  Batteries are cheap and last a long time-as long as you turn the meter off when not in use.  The better ones will shut themselves down after a period of time.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Kemper Watson on October 05, 2017, 08:52:16 pm
Ah, those pesky details....

Here's a run-down for Debbie and anyone else who's never had to check:

A) While the genset is not running:

1)  Using your Ohm meter, check resistance between any Earthing (ground) connection and the frame of the trailer.  It should be 0 Ohms or so.

2)  Using your Ohm meter, next check resistance between any Earthing connection and any Neutral connection.  It should be 0 Ohms.  This test tells you if the *generator* part of the assembly is bonded.  If so, all is good.  Connect the Earthing rod or electrode array to the "grounding" terminal in the lug bay if the rental shop has not done so already.  If there are more than a couple of Ohms between Earthing and Neutral (like it's OPEN), use a short (12" is plenty) piece of wire as a jumper between the Earthing and Neutral lugs in the lug bay.  Repeat measurement to verify bonding.

3)  Find the Voltage selection switch (usually inside the engine compartment) and make sure it's on either 120/240V single phase or 120/208V 3 phase.  Many gensets have a 480V selection and we *really don't want that*.  Do not change this while the engine is running.  While Don Williams indicates that the 50 Amp connections are fed separately, my experience is contrary.  It's a good thing for you peace of mind, anyway.  Close all doors & access panels.

4)  Gentlemen (and dude-ette), start your engine if there is not a technician or rental guy to do so.  Let the engine come to speed for a minute or 2, while doing so look to see if there is a switch for "Eco-Mode" or "Idle/full speed".  After that bit of warm up, switch to the full speed mode.

B)  Now that we're running:

1)  It's time to check the voltage, so turn on the breaker(s) and use Mr. Voltmeter to measure Hot/Neutral, Hot/Ground (repeat these for each hot leg), Neutral/Ground.  The genset may have switchable voltmeters but they aren't very accurate... You can adjust output voltage (usually a screwdriver adjustment on the control panel, but the newer microprocessor controlled gennies may have up/down buttons or other contrivances) if you find it too high or too low.  If you are unable to adjust to a nominal 120V, see A(3) and A(4) above.

(a)  You should find nominal 120V between each hot leg and neutral, each hot leg and ground, and ZERO Volts between neutral and ground.  If you find more than a couple millivolts there is a problem somewhere, as you have no attached loads at this point, right?  Hmmmm? ;)  At any rate, you should see no voltage between these when metered right at the generator set.

2)  Turn off any circuit breakers you had on for testing, connect the feeder cable to the spider box and the other end of the feeder to the connector on the genset.  Switch the breaker back on and the repeat the voltage test on all the outlets on the spider box.  You may see a small bit of voltage between neutral and ground, typically 10mV - 50mV.  A little more doesn't indicate danger, but lack of maintenance...  You're ready to start plugging in!

The most likely problem you will have is that many/most rental shops do not send out an Earthing electrode or ground rod or the wire to connect it.  When discussing generators with clients who are arranging for the rental & delivery remind them you need those items for the "safety of the performers and to meet Electrical Code."  At one point we carried our own ground rods and wire until enough event rentals were inspected by the AHJ and customers were calling the 24/7 service phone number and the rental shops started provided them upon request.

Now the disclaimer:  The preceding description assumes the reader has sufficient knowledge, experience and education in electricity and other relevant topics to determine if the suggested tests, sequencing of tests and connections, etc is suitable to the circumstances and equipment present.  Reader assumes all personal and property risks and acknowledges that the prededing description is for illustration purposes only.  It is not meant to be a tutorial or to replace professional personnel.

Thanks Tim. I'm printing this out and laminating it to my trailer wall..
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Ray Aberle on October 05, 2017, 09:30:57 pm
Yes - diesel - sorry. It's all gas to me  :(
Typically, a 45kW will have 26 gallons in the UNIT tank, and another 54 gallons in the TRAILER tank. (Nope, not converting to metric, sorry.) FTB (Full Tilt Boogie) an MQ will draw 2.6gph, so WORSE CASE (and you'd have to be hitting this hard!!!) you still have 10 hours of run time in the unit and another 20 hours in the trailer. Pop open the diesel compartment on the front- if you can see the diesel, you're gonna be fine. I did a festival with my 45kW; 9bx Kara per side, plus subs, wedges, stage power/backline, FOH and MON positions- and 13, 14 hour days was using BARELY a gallon per hour. I seem to remember 12-13ga each morning to refill from the previous day. (Raging levels of paranoia; I hate dropping into the trailer tank. If I can't see diesel I'm scared.)

-Ray
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on October 05, 2017, 10:49:49 pm

Heck even the $20 are MUCH better than nothing.

The key thing to remember is that with some, when the internal battery gets to low, they can give VERY wrong information.  Such as AC voltage reading 1/2 of what it should.  Batteries are cheap and last a long time-as long as you turn the meter off when not in use.  The better ones will shut themselves down after a period of time.

I would at least look for a Cat III safety rating-after all, you will be measuring mains power and if you are checking a 50 amp feeder there's quite a bit of energy available that you really don't want released accidentally.

If you ever plan to use it to verify the presence of power before touching something, your trusting your life with it.  A good Fluke (model 117 would be a great one) will last a lifetime-I found a used Fluke  almost new in box that was 20+ years old and worked perfect. that set me back a whole $15.  The Klein's offer a lot for the buck.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Steve Ferreira on October 06, 2017, 02:16:19 pm
You will need ESA to come and check the generator and connections as well, before firing it up.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Kemper Watson on October 06, 2017, 03:11:21 pm
EVERY sound person should own and carry a simply volt/ohm meter.

There are SOOOOOO many cases where knowing how to measure simple AC and DC voltages (batteries for example), and resistance checks make life SO much easier and faster to troubleshoot.

At the current prices, there really is no excuse.

Heck even the $20 are MUCH better than nothing.

The key thing to remember is that with some, when the internal battery gets to low, they can give VERY wrong information.  Such as AC voltage reading 1/2 of what it should.  Batteries are cheap and last a long time-as long as you turn the meter off when not in use.  The better ones will shut themselves down after a period of time.

Has the Mooshimeter (https://moosh.im/mooshimeter/) caught on yet??
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Frank Koenig on October 06, 2017, 03:40:37 pm
Has the Mooshimeter (https://moosh.im/mooshimeter/) caught on yet??

I have a Mooshimeter, which I reviewed here a while back, and while it works fine as a low-cost data logger, I wouldn't trust anyone's life to it. Just too fiddly, with the app and all. Get a quality, normal electrician's meter. -F
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Rob Spence on October 06, 2017, 04:14:21 pm
You will need ESA to come and check the generator and connections as well, before firing it up.

Assuming anyone involved in the event even knows what that is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on October 06, 2017, 05:12:43 pm
I have a Mooshimeter, which I reviewed here a while back, and while it works fine as a low-cost data logger, I wouldn't trust anyone's life to it. Just too fiddly, with the app and all. Get a quality, normal electrician's meter. -F
I have a mooshimeter as well.  It is a nice gadget.

The biggest issue I have is that it is really only good for power line voltages.

Mid to high freq are WAY off.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: hiep nguyen on October 07, 2017, 10:42:26 am

Mid to high freq are WAY off.

so true including some of Fluke models
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 07, 2017, 10:51:42 am
Yesterday I spoke on the phone with the guy who is providing the generator - ( he has also provided all the staging) .
I put all the questions that have been presented here and he assured me everything is as it should be. It seems they do these types of shows all the time and he was very aware of how it needs to be configured for today's show.
I told him it should be grounded to the stage and have  a grounding rod too.
We are leaving soon to get to Greensboro by 1.30pm (it has been a crazy 3 days for us- with no time to think)...  Apparently the generator guy will be there for the entire time which makes things a bit easier.

So... here goes ......


As always - Thanks peeps and I'll do some reading over the next few weeks and perhaps get me one of the testers mentioned here on top of the ones I already use.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 07, 2017, 02:05:26 pm
Yesterday I spoke on the phone with the guy who is providing the generator - ( he has also provided all the staging) .
I put all the questions that have been presented here and he assured me everything is as it should be. It seems they do these types of shows all the time and he was very aware of how it needs to be configured for today's show.
I told him it should be grounded to the stage and have  a grounding rod too.
We are leaving soon to get to Greensboro by 1.30pm (it has been a crazy 3 days for us- with no time to think)...  Apparently the generator guy will be there for the entire time which makes things a bit easier.

So... here goes ......


As always - Thanks peeps and I'll do some reading over the next few weeks and perhaps get me one of the testers mentioned here on top of the ones I already use.

Get the Extech that has been mentioned before, it's easy for quick checks.  Take pictures, let's see how the grounding and bonding is done.

Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on October 08, 2017, 12:30:28 am
The Whisperwatt comes in a lot of flavors but in general is the type of genset I call a "real generator" when I post about portable power.

It's a real sine wave output with good voltage regulation.  You should be fine.

One of the things that gives these bigger gensets good voltage regulation is a large rotating mass. That's a lot of inertia that won't slow down (or speed up) as much when the load suddenly changes.

This is a good thread. Could be sticky-worthy.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 08, 2017, 11:10:38 am
Well.....

Got to the show (It was an event held for leukemia survivors and to raise funds from sponsorships)
The 'generator guy' tested everything out while I stood there. The output was a very steady 60hz and 120v stable according to his meters. Nice super heavy duty cables to spider boxes and once I was satisfied, we connected.

Anyway, that was the easy part - the hard part was dealing with the rain that 2-3 days prior wasn't forecast and even on the day was supposed to be a passing light rain at around 3-4pm. The staging company provided what looked like a really nicely built and designed stage with a heavy duty roof. Had back and side sections - just open at front and first few feet front sides.
When we got there, it had already rained and there was a huge puddle right where the drums would set up. There was a leak in the roof and it was still dripping - we could see the hole through to the sky.  We told the event organizers about it and they had to send someone to buy towels. We had some but needed them for our own wipe down later. The organizer told me she called the staging people and they offered no help.
We wiped up the water and it still continued to drip so we left a pile of towels right where the drip was. It stopped after a while.
The drummer set up to one side of the puddle.
In preparation of the rain, we placed our trash bags on the tops - subs were under the stage, lights were under the canopy and all electrical connections were elevated and under cover. Towels and tarps ready to go so we were set - or so we thought.
Rain ( light rain) happened on and off and we thought we were doing great at first.
Band went on stage and the rain started...no worries. Then some more announcements.
Band was waiting to go back on and we were standing at the back of the stage whilst a lady was speaking from the podium.
Then it started.... one leak in the roof directly over a 6 way that I didn't notice till too late and out it went (tripped). One side down - fortunately it was only feeding the one light stack and guitarists amp. The announcer just kept speaking - oblivious to what was going on...lights stayed on the other side. I pulled the extension and switched it out for a dry one placed in a different position on stage  - up and working again - mopping as we go.
Then Chris shouted from the other ride of the stage, leak right above my mixer and the drummers laptop....pulled table forward, wiped best I could and threw tarp over the top. There was an area just behind the subs that was pouring water - must have been a low spot - we stuck a huge trash can underneath it to catch the water.
At this point it was the time of the evening where survivors were invited up on stage - the organizers were oblivious to the fact that we were jumping around trying to salvage the show.
We started moving through the people on stage who had walked water everywhere so now the floor and all the cables on it were soaked up there -  and it seemed the roof was leaking all over . What was weird was that this wasn't what I would call heavy rain and my cheap canopies would have fared better.

The doppler showed the rain was to stop anytime and I was so close to calling it - I felt bad though because this was such a good cause, we wanted to do our very best for them but we couldn't keep bailing like this.
I told the organizers I was going to call it but as I spoke, the rain stopped and I figured we could contain things.

After everyone left the stage and some recorded music was played, the band went on and finished the night a little early.

The tear down was a very wet one and when we got home last night we pulled everything out of the trailer...we have pieces of equipment and covers and case everywhere - my garage, my living room and I still haven't attacked the cable box yet - threw everything in wet.
We both ache today - it was the third show in a row this weekend - left home yesterday at 11.15am and got home at 11.15 last night - still wet when we walked through the door. Then another 40 minutes to unpack the trailer and lay everything out to dry. We both hurt today and are talking about refusing anymore outdoor shows other than those booled- we have rotten luck with weather.
Finished my coffee and about to attempt to coil up my HUGE pile of now dry cables.....
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on October 08, 2017, 11:46:48 am
Why is it that stage roofs (or is it rooves?) so often function as collectors/funnels/downspouts equally well as their intended purpose?
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: John Fruits on October 08, 2017, 12:55:44 pm
Why is it that stage roofs (or is it rooves?) so often function as collectors/funnels/downspouts equally well as their intended purpose?
Thank you Mr. Rees for this fresh can of worms.  ???  ;D
Lets look at the evidence, the plural of hoof, hooves.  The plural of beef, beeves.  I say go with rooves.  Yep, it's archaic, but then so am I. 
Debbie, wow, sorry you had such a stressful and long day. On a positive note, think about your enhanced skill set, you can add gennie wrangler to your resume. (What a great name, you could save that for the nitwits who try to chat you up while working by asking "Hey darlin' what's your name" by giving them that name.)
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on October 08, 2017, 01:54:52 pm
Debbie... Any idea what brand roof it was? Do you have any say as to future roof/staging?  Your description of the setup with "back and side sections", almost makes it sound like a hydraulic stage, such as an Apex or Stageline


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Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 08, 2017, 07:44:21 pm
Debbie... Any idea what brand roof it was? Do you have any say as to future roof/staging?  Your description of the setup with "back and side sections", almost makes it sound like a hydraulic stage, such as an Apex or Stageline


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All I know is the name if the company who provided the stage - don't want to divulge the name here. Unsure of stage details but here is a picture....
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Ray Aberle on October 08, 2017, 07:53:17 pm
Looks like an SL100.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Kemper Watson on October 09, 2017, 07:09:39 am
Looks like an SL100.

I'll be the devils advocate and say Apex.. 8) 8)
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: John Fruits on October 09, 2017, 07:56:44 am
At least it isn't genie lifts and some truss with tarps.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Don T. Williams on October 09, 2017, 11:25:26 am
I'll be the devils advocate and say Apex.. 8) 8)

I don't think so.  No truss for front and rear roof support, "I" truss on the roof edge (not what Apex uses), and the bracing is wrong for the current offerings from Apex.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Jay Barracato on October 10, 2017, 01:31:46 pm
I don't think so.  No truss for front and rear roof support, "I" truss on the roof edge (not what Apex uses), and the bracing is wrong for the current offerings from Apex.
It is a sl100 as listed on the providers site.

I think they are nice as they don't look as "truck or trailer" as some of the older models. ( As a bluegrass guy, I have worked on flatbeds, cargo containers with sides cut out, piles of haybales, even an old boxcar)

I am not sure what was up with the leaking.

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Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on October 10, 2017, 03:17:04 pm
It is a sl100 as listed on the providers site.

I am not sure what was up with the leaking.


Any of the fold-out/up portable stages go through the wear and tear of repeated deployment....compounded by the flexing of the rig during transport.  The trade-off of structural integrity, robustness for light weight makes maintenance an issue, one that largely goes unaddressed.  Hydraulics, wheel bearings, brakes and such generally get attention.  Roof gasketing and the tolerances required to properly seal the wing joints of the roof...ehh...not so much.

After a few seasons these things start leaking and any proper maintenance gets shunted off to some nebulous future date because, "can't fix it when it's raining and when it ain't raining...no problem."

At least with the "T-rex" Show-mobiles, the leaks are all at the back wall.  The biggest problem then is that you can't use the trailer lighting or stage receptacles as the back wall pretty much fills with water, tripping all the breakers.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Don T. Williams on October 10, 2017, 03:45:35 pm
Any of the fold-out/up portable stages go through the wear and tear of repeated deployment....compounded by the flexing of the rig during transport.  The trade-off of structural integrity, robustness for light weight makes maintenance an issue, one that largely goes unaddressed.  Hydraulics, wheel bearings, brakes and such generally get attention.  Roof gasketing and the tolerances required to properly seal the wing joints of the roof...ehh...not so much.

+1 for this.  I'm in the Southwest.  I've had my stage for 4 years and it's only been rained on 4 times.  I didn't know it leaked until it rained!  I have worked on it and thought it was fixed, then I found new leaks!  Somehow, a water hose just isn't enough to detect the leaks.  I'm back working on it this week.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Kemper Watson on October 10, 2017, 04:52:33 pm


I think they are nice as they don't look as "truck or trailer" as some of the older models. ( As a bluegrass guy, I have worked on flatbeds, cargo containers with sides cut out, piles of haybales, even an old boxcar)


I am still given flat beds as a stage sometimes. Nothing like a 12ft deep stage..
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 10, 2017, 05:30:15 pm
I am still given flat beds as a stage sometimes. Nothing like a 12ft deep stage..

You get 12 ft flatbeds?  You kids don't know how lucky you've got it.... back when I was a kid we only had 96 inch flatbeds! 
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Chris Hindle on October 10, 2017, 11:48:48 pm
I am still given flat beds as a stage sometimes. Nothing like a 12ft deep stage..
Ya, gotta love that crack across the middle.......
Chris.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on October 11, 2017, 07:25:45 am
You get 12 ft flatbeds?  You kids don't know how lucky you've got it.... back when I was a kid we only had 96 inch flatbeds!
I have done MANY a gig on 96" flat beds.  What a pain.  ESPECIALLY when they don't provide steps and you have to climb up and down every time.

That gets old REAL quick.
Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Rob Spence on October 11, 2017, 12:55:05 pm
We got 2 drop deck aluminum trailers jammed side by side one time. We had to keep warning performers to “mind the gap”.
Funny thing was that they had to be crosswise in a narrow street, the supplier (the Navy) couldn’t jackknife them into place. The solution was to go fetch a giant fork truck and just pick em up and place them.



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Title: Re: Generator OK for digital equipment?
Post by: Kemper Watson on October 12, 2017, 12:48:42 am
You get 12 ft flatbeds?  You kids don't know how lucky you've got it.... back when I was a kid we only had 96 inch flatbeds!

I think the one I'm referring to was an office trailer that was stripped to make into a stage. It does not look like an 18 wheeler flat bed. But it is 12 ft deep..