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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => AC Power and Grounding => Topic started by: Brian Jojade on August 30, 2017, 02:01:02 am

Title: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Brian Jojade on August 30, 2017, 02:01:02 am
So, this is the new power tie in at a local venue.  Yes, this is the SOURCE of power....
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 30, 2017, 02:04:34 am
Uh.... uh....  damn.
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Ed Hall on August 30, 2017, 06:11:40 am
I'm very much in the lounge so I don't tie in with cam locks, but aren't they the wrong gender?
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: William Schnake on August 30, 2017, 07:27:15 am
I'm very much in the lounge so I don't tie in with cam locks, but aren't they the wrong gender?
They are for the way we do them.

Bill
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Chris Hindle on August 30, 2017, 08:15:05 am
So, this is the new power tie in at a local venue.  Yes, this is the SOURCE of power....
Looks like "someone" wants you to "rent" their feeder for your gig......
Chris.
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: John Fruits on August 30, 2017, 09:08:02 am
Ummmm, so how did this get by the AHJ?
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Brian Jojade on August 30, 2017, 10:22:11 am
I'm very much in the lounge so I don't tie in with cam locks, but aren't they the wrong gender?

Exactly. Installed by a licensed electrician, of course.
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: brian maddox on August 30, 2017, 03:35:14 pm
Exactly. Installed by a licensed electrician, of course.

Somebody has 5 CamLock turnarounds they're looking to sell....
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 30, 2017, 03:44:23 pm
Exactly. Installed by a licensed electrician, of course.

I'm willing to bet a cheap beverage that the original spec was for reversed-gender neutral & ground (to prevent misconnection) and by the time it got to the installing electrician he had a parts kit with what we see.

For those who still do straight-through (non-reversed) neutral & ground only 3 turnarounds will be needed... ;)
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Keith Broughton on August 30, 2017, 04:06:43 pm
So, this is the new power tie in at a local venue.  Yes, this is the SOURCE of power....
And this got passed an inspection!?!?!?
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on August 30, 2017, 04:20:22 pm
And this got passed an inspection!?!?!?

How many inspectors are familiar with camlocks?
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Tim McCulloch on August 30, 2017, 04:24:12 pm
How many inspectors are familiar with camlocks?

Almost none.  They'd be more interested in the access lock out and wiring behind the Cams than the connector itself.  OTOH I think this inspector doesn't realize there is language about requiring non-exposed terminals on line-side connections...  With Cams, though, is the female terminal not exposed, or is it being "less exposed" than the male deemed sufficient?
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: John Sulek on August 30, 2017, 05:44:48 pm
Somebody has 5 CamLock turnarounds they're looking to sell....

Not sell...rent over and over and over
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Erik Jerde on August 30, 2017, 09:54:55 pm
So, this is the new power tie in at a local venue.  Yes, this is the SOURCE of power....

It's stupid, wrong, and dangerous, but pretty much every distro or dimmer rack I can remember using has ins and outs on it so I'm pretty sure this wouldn't slow things down much once the feeder got run the right way.
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Keith Broughton on August 31, 2017, 06:42:42 am
pretty much every distro or dimmer rack I can remember using has ins and outs on it so I'm pretty sure this wouldn't slow things down much once the feeder got run the right way.
Not all that I have seen and you can't run the feeder the "right way" with this connector configuration unless you use turnarounds.
It's wrong, it's dangerous and it needs to be reported and changed!
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Craig Leerman on September 03, 2017, 12:21:34 am

For those who still do straight-through (non-reversed) neutral & ground only 3 turnarounds will be needed... ;)

Those of us who do non-reversed neutral and ground are the ones following code.
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Bob Leonard on September 03, 2017, 10:31:23 am
So Brian, has anyone come back at the venue to tell them of the issue and have the electrician come back to do the job correctly?
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Ray Aberle on September 03, 2017, 11:44:21 am
Those of us who do non-reversed neutral and ground are the ones following code.
So I'm certainly not an expert on the NEC. I was under the impression that code required a method to ensure that only 'qualified persons' would connect/disconnect single pole conductors (cams), and that some sort of mechanical system was required to prevent incorrect connections. The two accepted methods were either utilizing Posi-Locks (because you can't connect the hots until the GN were connected) or using RGN distros (since there was a physical dissimilarity that would prevent a screwup)

Can you elaborate as to why it's no longer acceptable under code to use reversed ground-neutral distros?

-Ray.
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 03, 2017, 01:08:41 pm
So I'm certainly not an expert on the NEC. I was under the impression that code required a method to ensure that only 'qualified persons' would connect/disconnect single pole conductors (cams), and that some sort of mechanical system was required to prevent incorrect connections. The two accepted methods were either utilizing Posi-Locks (because you can't connect the hots until the GN were connected) or using RGN distros (since there was a physical dissimilarity that would prevent a screwup)

Can you elaborate as to why it's no longer acceptable under code to use reversed ground-neutral distros?

-Ray.

I'm  not sure what Craig will cite, but unless Code has changed you have the option of using any of 3 methods - physical interlock, polarized connectors (RNG) or labeling with access and connecting limited to competent personnel only.
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Ray Aberle on September 03, 2017, 01:34:21 pm
Completely unrelated, but I know a guy locally who is color blind. He's not allowed to ever touch cams.

-r
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Jay Barracato on September 03, 2017, 09:01:14 pm
Completely unrelated, but I know a guy locally who is color blind. He's not allowed to ever touch cams.

-r
Had the generator rental company send an extra 50 feet of feeder last weekend. All five pieces had black cams on both ends.

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Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 04, 2017, 12:22:11 am
Had the generator rental company send an extra 50 feet of feeder last weekend. All five pieces had black cams on both ends.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Colored PVC tape is cheap.  At least they didn't put male cams on both ends.
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Ray Aberle on September 04, 2017, 04:42:59 am
Colored PVC tape is cheap.  At least they didn't put male cams on both ends.
We only have to deal with those during Gay Pride season...
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Thomas Lamb on September 04, 2017, 02:04:04 pm
We only have to deal with those during Gay Pride season...

I didn't know gay pride had a season...
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 04, 2017, 03:42:40 pm
I didn't know gay pride had a season...

It used to be "pride season" in June, near the anniversary of the Stonewall Tavern riots in New York.  We could count on June for LGBT work, Juneteenth celebrations and a couple other human rights type events.  Now the pride stuff is in August or September depending on location and Juneteenth has scaled back in favor of other events.  No "season" as such anymore.
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Ray Aberle on September 04, 2017, 05:50:01 pm
I didn't know gay pride had a season...
Ours (Pacific Northwest) is in June-- pretty much one starting event late May, and then 3 consecutive weekends in June, each one more complex/busy/etc than the previous.

At least up in this neck of the woods, major Pride events (as in major cities with celebrations) haven't moved past the first weekend of August (Vancouver, BC).

But my first comment was a joke (male-male cam connectors)...  ;)

-Ray
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Thomas Lamb on September 04, 2017, 10:22:08 pm
It used to be "pride season" in June, near the anniversary of the Stonewall Tavern riots in New York.  We could count on June for LGBT work, Juneteenth celebrations and a couple other human rights type events.  Now the pride stuff is in August or September depending on location and Juneteenth has scaled back in favor of other events.  No "season" as such anymore.
Hmm every once in a while you learn something new! Today was my day!😜
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Scott Helmke on September 05, 2017, 06:29:17 pm
Completely unrelated, but I know a guy locally who is color blind. He's not allowed to ever touch cams.

That's why European power cables have a stripe on the ground wire.
Title: Re: Venue installed brand new Camlock connectors...
Post by: Craig Leerman on September 07, 2017, 02:07:21 am
the code says males on cables go to the power. The only reason I have ever heard of reversing the neutral and ground is so some idiot or colorblind stagehand or wannabe show electrician won't get the hookup wrong.

Since the code also states that only qualified and competent people shall hook up power, the reversing scheme is not needed. If you are qualified and colorblind you should not be an electrician  :o

Don't get me started on banded feeder runs  ;D

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