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Title: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Stephane Desormeaux on March 28, 2011, 09:30:31 pm
I recently bought a pair of Yamaha DRS112 and I am 100% satisfied with them. They are great speakers. But, even though I am probably gonna get another pair of the DSR's as monitors, when I drive by a music store, I stop to take a look at what's available, and how some stuff sounds.

Last weekend was a sound test weekend. I stopped by at Solotech, in Montreal, and was introduced to EV's live X series.

I admit I was pretty impressed, both by sound quality, and price. The least expensive of the bunch by quite a bit, and not bad sounding at all. It sounded just a bit scooped, but not really lacking in any way. Then we started to A/B a bunch, including my DSR's. The DSR's are still the winner in my book, but at that price, many will opt for a very good box, with a decent mixer built in, and a sound that no one will complain about.

I have used my DSR's on 3 medium venues now, and they are perfect. In 2 weeks, I have their biggest gig yet. Can't wait to see them shine. Oh, and while I was at Solotech, I tried the DSR sub. It is really nice too, first time I heard it. Again, maybe not the best for boom boom dj dance stuff, but with ''real'' music (R&B, acoustic rock, etc...), it sounded great. Perfect match to the 112.

Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Bob Kenton on March 28, 2011, 09:54:47 pm
Thanks for the follow up. Ive been eyeing those subs. Havent really had a good listening yet. The first time I heard them I wasnt to impressed but figured that because I was listening to a poorly done MP3 burn and the horrible set up at GC that I would like to give them a better chance.
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Scott Bolt on March 29, 2011, 07:17:23 pm
Hey there Stephane,

I have been searching around the web looking for someone that had A/B'd the DSR's vs the ELX's.

I have purchased a pair of the DSR's too.  Compared to the PRX and the K12 they were an easy choice sonically.  I was wondering if the EV would be competitive.

One of the things I have noticed about the DSR's is that they have lots of volume headroom.  It isn't just that they get loud, they sound good getting loud (not all of their competitors do).

Did you have a chance to get the EV's up to some serious volume to see how well they worked when pushed?  Sadly, what sounds really loud at GC in a small enclosed room, gets swallowed up outside or in a decent sized venue.

I felt that the PRX sounded flat in comparison to the DSR when the volume was moved up.  The K12 actually started sounding bad at louder volumes.

Thanks for the review.  I too am interested in the other speakers.

FYI, I have heard of one person who purchased the Peavey Impulse 12D (it has a ribbon tweeter) and had one of them fail at the first gig.  There appears to be an issue with reliability which rumor has it was an early production problem ..... still, not a good thing.  Aside from the problem, he said it was a good sounding speaker (replaced K12's with them).
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Derek D Sanchez on March 29, 2011, 07:42:24 pm
I got to see the yamaha dsr112 today at guitar center, i noticed you can put them on either side for monitor use, amp facing out or amp facing the the floor, i would assume for install so i can run wires underneath the stage. I would be using them for live use, i didnt like that from the back you can see the amp from the stage and was wondering if you add some big rubber feet to the amp side and put them with the amp facing down if you would get overheating issues? you get a nice back view with the amp not showing and you can run the wires underneath. Do you think this is possible or would cause the heatsinks to overheat, i would like the rubber feet to bring the speaker at least 2 inches from the floor for the wires to clear. Thanks Derek
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Kurt Stephens on March 29, 2011, 09:51:03 pm

I felt that the PRX sounded flat in comparison to the DSR when the volume was moved up.  The K12 actually started sounding bad at louder volumes.


Which got the loudest before limiting in your opinion?
Title: Posting Rules
Post by: Mac Kerr on March 29, 2011, 10:04:47 pm
I got to see the yamaha

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real full name as required by the posting rules clearly displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section.

Mac
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Stephane Desormeaux on March 29, 2011, 10:41:03 pm
To Scott : I agree with your review. I thought the Prx was pretty close, and for me it was more ''what color I like best'', but yeah, they seem to want to be pushed (the DSR's) and not skip a beat, as to others don't sound as good when driven hard. The EV live X were good sounding, until I heard the DSR's. Then it was a huge difference. I did not push them very hard, no where near the limit, so I can't say anything about their SPL or protection/compression/processor.

To Derek : I am sure you can (flip them on the other wedge side) if you install decent rubber feet. I can tell you that on the few gigs I used them, they got a little hot, but not very hot. No where near the heat that my old Crown Microtech's produced. So using them this way should not be too much of a problem.

To Kurt : The DSR's got the loudest without noticable compression & protection.
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Kurt Stephens on March 29, 2011, 11:24:41 pm

To Kurt : The DSR's got the loudest without noticable compression & protection.

Interesting - I have heard different opinions on this. How big of a difference in max real-world SPL could you notice between the PRX and the DSR? Any further comments? Which hit the limiter quicker etc... maybe you didn't get to test them that closely.

I am actually thinking of replacing my K12's as well - possibly with PRX's or DSR's
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Stephane Desormeaux on March 30, 2011, 08:42:56 am
Interesting - I have heard different opinions on this. How big of a difference in max real-world SPL could you notice between the PRX and the DSR? Any further comments? Which hit the limiter quicker etc... maybe you didn't get to test them that closely.

I am actually thinking of replacing my K12's as well - possibly with PRX's or DSR's

How big a difference...... tiny.

I was almost on the fence between the DSR and the PRX. Both get just as many plus points. I found the DSR to have a slight edge to the color of it's sound over the PRX, but this was in actual A/B testing. Had I heard them even 30 seconds apart, I would have probably not noticed it, or would have had a hard time determining witch I like best. But I used R&B and acoustic rock as test songs. With this type of music, the DSR won to my ears. There is a huge difference when you use dance.

For the SPL limit, I drove many speakers to high levels, and the only 2 that did NOT change sound (or even plain sound bad) were the PRX and DSR. I did not keep pushing them until they failed (or sounded bad), but at very high levels, the DSR just seemed to be able to give a little more, as to where the PRX sounded just a bit at it's limit (bass was a tad slower, and slight harshness from the highs), but not in a big way.

All this is from just a few tests by the way, and it is almost funny how an evaluation can change from time to time, room to room, etc....

The first time I heard the K series, I was 100% blown away. And the first time I heard the DSR, I thought, wow, this is way too harsh. I am 100% certain that either of these speakers (DSR or PRX) will make you happy. The PRX also wins in weight, and handle placements (Not crazy about the top handle only on the DSR, when I get them up on stands). And also, unless we use a spectrum analyser, SPL meter, etc....., all reviews are colored by the tester's personnal preferences.

Have fun shopping, :)

Stephane
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Scott Bolt on April 01, 2011, 08:22:01 am
Reguarding SPL, I think that both the PRX and DSR will get loud enough (really loud) that you won't be able to crank them all the way in a small to medium sized bar without causing pain to people in the bar.

I don't know that I would say the SPL of the DSR is higher than the PRX, I would say that the bottom says tighter on the DSR and that the highs are clearer on the DSR.

I had my choices down to these two.  As Stephane stated, I was also "on-the-fence".

I A/B'd them extensively attempting to eq each speaker to get its best sound (using the parmetric eq on a Presonus digital mixer).  I figured that this would take any "color" issues out of the equation and focus my buying decision on the "quality" of the sound of the box.

I wanted the JBL to be the better box.  I like the look of the JBL, I love the 34lb weight of the JBL, and I really like the angled pole mount option the JBL has.  I like the side handle better on the JBL (The DSR has its handle on top).

There was a fairly clear difference in sound quality between the two speakers.  The DSR had more clear and airy vocals.  The DSR had a more round and punchy bottom end.

It really did come down to sound quality for me.  The DSR simply came out on top.

I can carry both of my DSR's up my basement stairs by myself, and I can put them on a pole by myself as well (but I am not a small guy).  This is a big step (smaller ;)) up from my Klipsch KP301's which weigh 81lbs each and are 2.5 times bigger.

.... but I sure wouldn't mind it if my DSR's were as light as the PRX's ;)
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Jay Barracato on April 01, 2011, 09:01:21 am
I recently bought a pair of Yamaha DRS112 and I am 100% satisfied with them. They are great speakers. But, even though I am probably gonna get another pair of the DSR's as monitors, when I drive by a music store, I stop to take a look at what's available, and how some stuff sounds.

Last weekend was a sound test weekend. I stopped by at Solotech, in Montreal, and was introduced to EV's live X series.

I admit I was pretty impressed, both by sound quality, and price. The least expensive of the bunch by quite a bit, and not bad sounding at all. It sounded just a bit scooped, but not really lacking in any way. Then we started to A/B a bunch, including my DSR's. The DSR's are still the winner in my book, but at that price, many will opt for a very good box, with a decent mixer built in, and a sound that no one will complain about.

I have used my DSR's on 3 medium venues now, and they are perfect. In 2 weeks, I have their biggest gig yet. Can't wait to see them shine. Oh, and while I was at Solotech, I tried the DSR sub. It is really nice too, first time I heard it. Again, maybe not the best for boom boom dj dance stuff, but with ''real'' music (R&B, acoustic rock, etc...), it sounded great. Perfect match to the 112.


So when will the "testing" occur. No offense, but all you have posted is a subjective review of listening under unknown conditions.
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Scott Bolt on April 02, 2011, 09:56:27 am
I think I understand what you are talking about; however, the "testing" being done here is the subjective personal ear testing of people that supposedly know a thing or two about speakers and live sound (and how to get a decent live sound).

Phase and frequency charts in a sterile environment are just numbers on a page IMHO.  I much prefer hearing other professionals opinions on the sound of a speaker personally.

I would be interested in a detailed graphical analysis of the current crop of powered speakers; however, I am a senior electrical engineer and geek extrodinare ;)

I think it would take a bigger geek (with more money and time than me) to want to put together a real testing environment and put these speakers to the test with a program like SMAART (or the shareware ARTA program).
 
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Kurt Stephens on April 02, 2011, 11:31:15 pm
I would be interested in a detailed graphical analysis of the current crop of powered speakers; however, I am a senior electrical engineer and geek extrodinare ;)

I think it would take a bigger geek (with more money and time than me) to want to put together a real testing environment and put these speakers to the test with a program like SMAART (or the shareware ARTA program).

I would be extremely interested in this as well - the market with the PRX's DSR's K's etc... is real crowded right now - it would be fantastic to have some comparative testing done on them.
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Jon R Smith on April 03, 2011, 11:05:07 pm
Greetings,

As so many people have pointed out on these forums, "it's all about the ears." Also, I have never been hired for a job because my speakers looked good on paper or not hired because they didn't. Never been asked really. Hmmm. I have been hired because of great sound and professional attitude.

Anyway, I recently did a A/B between all of the below listed. This was not in a small GC room but in a large showroom that would actually hold 200 water bags in a show. Great acoustics and built just for this type of testing. Various musical styles and genre were used and none was damaged or injured in the process. Power wise they are all 1000 watts with the Yamaha's topping the others at 1300 total watts.

Yamaha DSR112
EV ELX112P
QSC K12
JBL PRX 612M

The JBL's were mine and I wanted to compare them to the rest. i was very happy with my PRX. They held their own against all of the above. As has been mentioned before, the monitor angle sucks but is cured by a little audio wood. In the end I found myself happy with my PRX 612 and 615 purchase. The remaining 3 speakers have great monitor angles especially compared to the PRX.

Any of the above is a great speaker and the purchaser will be happy. If economics are a concern to you then you will love the EV's. They are a great speaker and for under $500 and you will love them. I am going to pick up at least one for a great little utility speaker. RCA inputs and dual XLR ins with separate control and a master control. It is close to the K12 on individual controls but kicks butt on price ($300 less) and matches the sound quality. (my opinion)

Myself, I walked away with the DSRs from Yamaha. I felt them to hold up in volume level and sound quality better than the rest. I can't wait to get them outdoors! My 612s were right there but the DSR surpassed even them. My dealer is selling all their PRX 5XX stock and moving to the DSR for their rental inventory. The PRX 5XX speaker covers also fit the DSR perfectly.

To wrap up these are all great speakers and any one will work well for the buyer. I suggest you listen and let your ears tell you what to buy. I don't believe anyone will tell you your speakers suck with any of the above. As with any speaker how you use or abuse them with your chosen genre will determine your success or failure.

I hope this review helps and is not to middle of the fence. I love my JBL's and am very happy with my new Yamaha purchase.


Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Dave Ferris on April 04, 2011, 03:24:53 am
I finally did get to hear the Yamahas yesterday in the GC. First off my application or wants are probably a little different then most.
I'm looking for a speaker/speakers that will basically give me the most detailed, non-harsh, non-digital, smooth as silk sound for my "digital" ( ;D) piano....without having to spend between 5K to 6K on a pair of L'Acoustics, Meyer or Turbosound NUQs. :o
DPs are the hardest instrument to get right live imo, especially when the context is more Acoustic based music like Jazz. And piano players are among the pickiest bunch of pias around. ::)  ;)

The DSR112 does sound good ! Especially at that price point. I wasn't able to bring my Yamaha CP5 in as space was tight but I was able to persuade them to bring a Korg SV-1 from the adjoining keyboard room to demo with. Since my RCF TT08As are very small and don't take up a lot of space I brought one along just has a point of reference.

The DSR112 has a big sound in the low end and clear in the highs. Almost "too" big in the lows for me. In Jazz too much low end on piano can smother the Acoustic bass's sonic territory; that's a no-no.
After A/B ing the Yamaha with my RCF, even though it's an 8" to 12", I still preferred the RCF's more open, natural detailed sound to the DSR112 box.
The Yamaha with its 12" speaker obviously sounded "bigger", but through the DSR112 , the Korg's Acoustic piano, Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds all came across a bit more digital or jarring as opposed to more of a smoother studio monitor vibe from the TT08A.

So while I think for someone using the DSR112s in a more rock application for foh vocals would be very happy, this was not the sound I was looking for.

I was told by the local RCF rep that he's working on getting the 722A and TT22A , one of each, for me to compare. I've been working on this since last Oct. so I hope it can happen next week or very soon after.

I'll post my thoughts, after getting a chance to hear both boxes, for anyone interested in a dedicated RCF thread..
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Billy Crabtree on April 04, 2011, 10:16:38 am
 
Does anyone know which ones are made in china, heard the ev's are. QSC's are made in Cali? (seems I remember reading that somewhere) I have hpr 153i's and they are chinese but are really sweet, but they weigh in over a hundred pounds each and are not pole mountable, so thinking of moving up to something lighter.
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Derek D Sanchez on April 04, 2011, 04:49:20 pm
What do you guys think about the jbl prx 615 vs the yamaha dsr 112?  I want to upgrade to powered monitors and i was set on the jbls but now the yamahas seem like a good contender. Would the 15 in the jbl give it more of an edge over the yamahas 12? Thanks Derek
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Derek D Sanchez on April 04, 2011, 04:53:59 pm
Also on a side note since i have been using passive monitors, what happens when musicians spill beer or water onto powered monitors? The jbls have a port on the back so the water would not get in while the yamahas have two front ports and if you look through can see the amp below. Just asking because i always wondered, my passive jbls have gotten water on them with no problems. Derek
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Rob Spence on April 04, 2011, 10:34:56 pm
One thing I have noticed in some of these "comparison" threads are comments about the sound at the upper limits of the speaker.
What I wonder about is what SPL are we talking about for each of these units.
It is one thing if they all get to the same SPL but one or more sound bad at the level that some others sound ok. But, if there is no measurement of actual loudness, it could be that they all sound fine up to some SPL level?
Ears are good for EQ determining but not so much for comparing loudness.
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Scott Bolt on April 04, 2011, 10:55:22 pm
Jon,

I wished that I could have auditioned these speakers in a larger (more realistic) venue than the tiny speaker area at GC as you did.

I had a very similar opinion and ended up purchasing the DSR112's as well.  I thought that the PRX612m was a close second and a better sounding speaker than the K12 at a lower price.  I do miss that side handle on the JBL and the 34lbs weight when I am putting my DSR's up on the pole ;)

Hi Dave,  I believe that we have spoken on another forum.

After hearing your review, I do remember that I felt that the DSR112 was a bit too hot on the HF when I was close up.  I did eq the speaker at GC to cut some of the top off using a PEQ in that small space.

I found that once I had the speakers home and was able to get into a larger space (a real gig), I needed that top HF back and ended up with the eq flat on the mains ;)

I can see where the attack (top and bottom) on the DSR might not be optimal for a keyboard monitor (without first going through an eq of some kind).

Thanks for the great feedback.
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Jon R Smith on April 05, 2011, 12:19:50 am
One thing I have noticed in some of these "comparison" threads are comments about the sound at the upper limits of the speaker.
What I wonder about is what SPL are we talking about for each of these units.
It is one thing if they all get to the same SPL but one or more sound bad at the level that some others sound ok. But, if there is no measurement of actual loudness, it could be that they all sound fine up to some SPL level?
Ears are good for EQ determining but not so much for comparing loudness.

Rob, I was going to bring my meter but alas, I forgot and didn't ask at the store. I have both the DSR & PRX to compare and get some levels like you suggest. I will also get back to the store and get a level on the EV & QSC. I think it will help and also give us something objective to compare.
Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Randy Freemire on April 05, 2011, 02:17:37 pm
I finally did get to hear the Yamahas yesterday in the GC. First off my application or wants are probably a little different then most.
I'm looking for a speaker/speakers that will basically give me the most detailed, non-harsh, non-digital, smooth as silk sound for my "digital" ( ;D) piano....without having to spend between 5K to 6K on a pair of L'Acoustics, Meyer or Turbosound NUQs. :o
DPs are the hardest instrument to get right live imo, especially when the context is more Acoustic based music like Jazz. And piano players are among the pickiest bunch of pias around. ::)  ;)

The DSR112 does sound good ! Especially at that price point. I wasn't able to bring my Yamaha CP5 in as space was tight but I was able to persuade them to bring a Korg SV-1 from the adjoining keyboard room to demo with. Since my RCF TT08As are very small and don't take up a lot of space I brought one along just has a point of reference.

The DSR112 has a big sound in the low end and clear in the highs. Almost "too" big in the lows for me. In Jazz too much low end on piano can smother the Acoustic bass's sonic territory; that's a no-no.
After A/B ing the Yamaha with my RCF, even though it's an 8" to 12", I still preferred the RCF's more open, natural detailed sound to the DSR112 box.
The Yamaha with its 12" speaker obviously sounded "bigger", but through the DSR112 , the Korg's Acoustic piano, Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds all came across a bit more digital or jarring as opposed to more of a smoother studio monitor vibe from the TT08A.

So while I think for someone using the DSR112s in a more rock application for foh vocals would be very happy, this was not the sound I was looking for.

I was told by the local RCF rep that he's working on getting the 722A and TT22A , one of each, for me to compare. I've been working on this since last Oct. so I hope it can happen next week or very soon after.

I'll post my thoughts, after getting a chance to hear both boxes, for anyone interested in a dedicated RCF thread..

Dave,
Forever on the quest for the best speaker!  I can relate!  I much prefer a "jazz" sound than the brasher "rock" sound (which hurts my ears)

So why are you still looking if you like the RCF TT08A's?  They sound like a perfect speaker for you: lightweight, small, open, smooth. 

Of course your RCFs are twice the price of the DSR's.  Have you found any under $1,000 speakers that meet your needs (or come close)?  How do the EV ZXA1's compare?

Do you use a mixer and eq on your gigs?  You'd be able to tame the excessive low end of the DSR with that, but that elusive openness on the top end can be harder to "encourage" with eq.

I've been intrigued by the jbl prx635 (yes, a large box, and at 60 pounds not lightweight) because it's under $1,000, is lightweight for a 3 way design, and gets the thumbs up by folks like you and me that want a non-harsh, acoustic music friendly sound. 

One review I read of the 635s compared them to other common/comprable 12's/15's (2 way speakers) on a stage with a lot of different acts, and noticed very little difference between them and the others when it came to heavy metal, but as the musical styles on the stage became more acoustic, the 635s sounded much better, open and transparent.

Do you always play with a bass?  I imagine that playing solo your 8" TT08As would be lacking a bit, esp. as you're playing eps and clavs.

Randy







Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Scott Bolt on April 06, 2011, 12:21:03 am
Also on a side note since i have been using passive monitors, what happens when musicians spill beer or water onto powered monitors? The jbls have a port on the back so the water would not get in while the yamahas have two front ports and if you look through can see the amp below. Just asking because i always wondered, my passive jbls have gotten water on them with no problems. Derek

Hi Derek,

I hadn't thought about the water/spill proofing of my speaker  ;).  Since I am using mine as FOH, it would take a pretty violent beer spill to reach them with any substantial amount of liquid (I hope).

I am one of the people that have posted the performance of various speakers which degrade at higher SPL.  Essentially, I was concerned that gig volumes in medium clubs (crowd of say ... 150-200), would push these speakers and wanted to be sure that as they were pushed, they continued to sound good (no harshness, no breakup, not thin).

Some speakers didn't need too much before they started falling apart.  Others got so loud that I couldn't go on in a small space.
Quote from: Jon
Rob, I was going to bring my meter but alas, I forgot and didn't ask at the store. I have both the DSR & PRX to compare and get some levels like you suggest. I will also get back to the store and get a level on the EV & QSC. I think it will help and also give us something objective to compare.
Hi Jon,

I am looking forward to your technical review using an SPL meter ;)

I am lovin my DSR112's.  They are punchin the chest really well over our subs.

Title: Re: More powered speaker testings.....
Post by: Jerome Casinger on April 17, 2011, 11:15:24 pm
Are any of you running the DSR subs? Or heard the DSR subs, would be interested to here your thoughts compared to the PRX or whatever subs you are running.