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Title: Cover bands
Post by: Bob Kidd on December 10, 2016, 03:56:34 am
Being a house tech can be frustrating at times. Mixed cover band tonight that is good but like most leans on tracks. From my end mix was good and dance floor packed. People complimenting sound. They lead singer came out into crowd a couple of times during the night interacting. At end of night he felt the mix should have had tracks more out front. "Vocals, then tracks". Felt people need to feel it. Now band included drums, bass, guitar... thought a lot of sound guys tend to do same thing. Guitar doesn't need to be out there. So I said  "they should feel bass and kick in tracks , like your live kick and bass"? Smh. Basically turning this into a glorified Karaoke show. I'm venting, but frustrating when you take your job serious in providing a well balanced mix only to find all I needed to do is crank the tracks. Lol
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Mike Christy on December 10, 2016, 06:32:02 am
You're lucky to at least some some instruments on stage, all we have around here locally is $%#$& DJs... (A new live venue opened here last year, and closed this year, Gary Green with Scott Kirby actually closed it down...)
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Randy Pence on December 10, 2016, 06:38:04 am
You're lucky to at least some some instruments on stage, all we have around here locally is $%#$& DJs... (A new live venue opened here last year, and closed this year, Gary Green with Scott Kirby actually closed it down...)

the market has spoken
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Rick Powell on December 10, 2016, 12:57:03 pm
Ha! Wants more Bass and kick in tracks, when you've already got bass and kick live onstage?  :) :) :) Might as well have mimes, not musicians.  We use tracks sparingly, mostly keyboard parts or sound effects to fill in for the keyboard player we don't have. I refuse to put an instrumental solo or background vocals on our tracks, and to put duplicate parts for our drums, bass or guitar would be unthinkable. If you're going to that extent, why pay musos to show up on stage when you could have a singer or 2 singing to karaoke tracks who wouldn't have to split the $$$ 5 or 6 ways?  I know, I've seen big boy bands have an excessive # of tracks, but I still think a competent band playing their instruments live has an appeal that a pre-fab band doesn't have.



Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Jay Marr on December 10, 2016, 02:20:43 pm
I play in a cover band and we use a Roland spdx sampler to trigger sounds because we don't have keys.
If the singer wants more tracks....then he doesn't have confidence in his band or product.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Tim McCulloch on December 10, 2016, 02:45:38 pm
Ha! Wants more Bass and kick in tracks, when you've already got bass and kick live onstage?  :) :) :) Might as well have mimes, not musicians.  We use tracks sparingly, mostly keyboard parts or sound effects to fill in for the keyboard player we don't have. I refuse to put an instrumental solo or background vocals on our tracks, and to put duplicate parts for our drums, bass or guitar would be unthinkable. If you're going to that extent, why pay musos to show up on stage when you could have a singer or 2 singing to karaoke tracks who wouldn't have to split the $$$ 5 or 6 ways?  I know, I've seen big boy bands have an excessive # of tracks, but I still think a competent band playing their instruments live has an appeal that a pre-fab band doesn't have.

I worked with a show band producer that did a lot of cruise ship work.  Trax on a MiniDisc triggered from stage, had click, BGV, bass, guitar and sound effects.  The "performing" bassist and guitarist were ghosting their parts and I was not to use them in the live mix (window dressing panto); the live BGV were doubling the track and if a singer was off I was to remove him/her from the live mix.  I think I did 2 runs with them before I needed to find a different neurotic to work for...  He had some really good players that were only heard in their headphone monitors.

There is a franchise of sorts that features the nerdy, early techno-pop music of earlier-era MTV.  They use tracks extensively as replacements for keyboardists and rhythm guitars and some BGV (depending on the cast).  Everything you see on stage is in the mix, the guitarist IS that good and the front man singer can hit the high notes every time.  Someone spent a lot of time on the trax, though, because I've never had to work to make everything fit together.

Last night I had a cover band opening a show for a reality TV band.  No keyboards (2nd guitarist covered), no tracks, just get up on stage and play and sing your ass off.  They finished right on time, got their stuff off the stage quickly and a good time was had.  Opening acts (especially local support) that "get it" get rebooked.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: duane massey on December 10, 2016, 04:21:12 pm
And THIS is why I really wish I would have chosen something besides trumpet or keyboards as my primary instruments.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Steve Oldridge on December 10, 2016, 07:59:31 pm
Opening acts (especially local support) that "get it" get rebooked.
Think my cover band did 75+ gigs last year and we're up to 70 (?) this year, with 2 more to go.. and 22 booked for 1st 1/2 of '17 already.

NONE of them used tracks..   nobody in the band wants them..
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: William Schnake on December 10, 2016, 08:01:44 pm
You're lucky to at least some some instruments on stage, all we have around here locally is $%#$& DJs... (A new live venue opened here last year, and closed this year, Gary Green with Scott Kirby actually closed it down...)
Mike, side note, I have worked with Scott Kirby several times from Illinois to New Jersey to Florida.  Haven't thought of him for some time.  Small world.

Bill
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Rick Powell on December 10, 2016, 08:10:23 pm
And THIS is why I really wish I would have chosen something besides trumpet or keyboards as my primary instruments.

The old joke... Q: what do you call a trombonist with a pager?: An optimist.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Tim Weaver on December 10, 2016, 08:30:13 pm


There is a franchise of sorts that features the nerdy, early techno-pop music of earlier-era MTV.  They use tracks extensively as replacements for keyboardists and rhythm guitars and some BGV (depending on the cast).  Everything you see on stage is in the mix, the guitarist IS that good and the front man singer can hit the high notes every time.  Someone spent a lot of time on the trax, though, because I've never had to work to make everything fit together.



The Spazmatics.

They are really good players. You have to audition to get that gig and be:
A) willing to wear the rediculous outfits
B) Be a legit great player
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Tim McCulloch on December 10, 2016, 08:47:19 pm
Being a house tech can be frustrating at times. Mixed cover band tonight that is good but like most leans on tracks. From my end mix was good and dance floor packed. People complimenting sound. They lead singer came out into crowd a couple of times during the night interacting. At end of night he felt the mix should have had tracks more out front. "Vocals, then tracks". Felt people need to feel it. Now band included drums, bass, guitar... thought a lot of sound guys tend to do same thing. Guitar doesn't need to be out there. So I said  "they should feel bass and kick in tracks , like your live kick and bass"? Smh. Basically turning this into a glorified Karaoke show. I'm venting, but frustrating when you take your job serious in providing a well balanced mix only to find all I needed to do is crank the tracks. Lol

We had a national act that plays hard rock come through recently.  96 inputs - 48 Pro Tools and 48 live.  The live went to the monitors and the PT inputs to FOH.  The band is the back up to their tracks.

We can talk about the dishonesty blah blah blah... or realize that in theatre almost everything critical is playback.  The producers, directors and designers want it to be 100% the same at every performance.  Many of the :A: level national and international acts that feature extensive choreography for the star are also using tracks for the star vocal (and maybe a whole lot more).  For a rock band with automation, synchronized video, etc it makes sense.  At least we can presume the recording was made by the people you see on the stage, Mr. Vanilli...
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Scott Holtzman on December 11, 2016, 12:31:34 am
I worked with a show band producer that did a lot of cruise ship work.  Trax on a MiniDisc triggered from stage, had click, BGV, bass, guitar and sound effects.  The "performing" bassist and guitarist were ghosting their parts and I was not to use them in the live mix (window dressing panto); the live BGV were doubling the track and if a singer was off I was to remove him/her from the live mix.  I think I did 2 runs with them before I needed to find a different neurotic to work for...  He had some really good players that were only heard in their headphone monitors.

There is a franchise of sorts that features the nerdy, early techno-pop music of earlier-era MTV.  They use tracks extensively as replacements for keyboardists and rhythm guitars and some BGV (depending on the cast).  Everything you see on stage is in the mix, the guitarist IS that good and the front man singer can hit the high notes every time.  Someone spent a lot of time on the trax, though, because I've never had to work to make everything fit together.

Last night I had a cover band opening a show for a reality TV band.  No keyboards (2nd guitarist covered), no tracks, just get up on stage and play and sing your ass off.  They finished right on time, got their stuff off the stage quickly and a good time was had.  Opening acts (especially local support) that "get it" get rebooked.

Disco Inferno and Spazmatics are two franchise bands that Tim refers to.  Both have Cleveland roots.  As he mentioned they are the real deal and the balance of tracks and live is just right for the genre.  These bands do as well as any bar band around and a timely visit from them can make a struggling venues month, they do that well.

Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Mike Christy on December 11, 2016, 06:31:39 am
Mike, side note, I have worked with Scott Kirby several times from Illinois to New Jersey to Florida.  Haven't thought of him for some time.  Small world.

Bill

Hi Bill, Wish I was with them in Key West right now, 13 degrees here!
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: William Schnake on December 11, 2016, 09:45:49 am
Hi Bill, Wish I was with them in Key West right now, 13 degrees here!
Right there with you.  It's 22 currently here in Illinois.

Bill
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Rob Gow on December 12, 2016, 04:33:10 am
Here's my cover band. No tracks.

http://youtu.be/Zt0i6Y_9slo
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Gordon Brinton on December 12, 2016, 06:35:40 am
Being a house tech can be frustrating at times. Mixed cover band tonight that is good but like most leans on tracks. From my end mix was good and dance floor packed. People complimenting sound. They lead singer came out into crowd a couple of times during the night interacting. At end of night he felt the mix should have had tracks more out front. "Vocals, then tracks". Felt people need to feel it. Now band included drums, bass, guitar... thought a lot of sound guys tend to do same thing. Guitar doesn't need to be out there. So I said  "they should feel bass and kick in tracks , like your live kick and bass"? Smh. Basically turning this into a glorified Karaoke show. I'm venting, but frustrating when you take your job serious in providing a well balanced mix only to find all I needed to do is crank the tracks. Lol

I see two angles here.

As far as the singer's comments are concerned...why did he wait until the end of the show to tell you how he wanted the mix to sound? Shouldn't he have mentioned that prior to curtain?

As far as you are concerned...so turn up the tracks! What do you care if they choose to have fake elements in their show? It's their show, not yours.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Jay Marr on December 12, 2016, 12:38:31 pm
Here's my cover band. No tracks.

http://youtu.be/Zt0i6Y_9slo

Band sounds excellent!  I'm a huge Bon Scott fan, so it's great to hear someone who can pull him off well!

But in all fairness to the conversation....it's AC/DC, what tracks could there be??  LOL
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Bob Kidd on December 12, 2016, 01:03:03 pm
I see two angles here.

As far as the singer's comments are concerned...why did he wait until the end of the show to tell you how he wanted the mix to sound? Shouldn't he have mentioned that prior to curtain?

As far as you are concerned...so turn up the tracks! What do you care if they choose to have fake elements in their show? It's their show, not yours.

I see it the same way and only find it amusing. I take pride in providing quality mixes and to make sure I represent what band is looking for. Sometimes we differ, part of business. I have mixed this band several times at this venue and recorded tracks as well (their request). Only positive feedback. Lead was drunk at time and don't feel he was saying mix was horrible or not great, just felt tracks should be pushed higher in mix. I fully understand it is not my show, but at same time have an obligation to provide the best experience to patrons as well. This is how I ensure bands return to venue and create buzz in area. But like I said, if band wants it a certain way that's what I provide. Not a big deal. I have offered numerous times to run virtual sound checks with them, but they can't get to venue until 30mins prior to start time. I have played back recorded tracks right after sound check and they loved it. Believe me I have no issues with tracks and feel at times is needed, but when you have a quality drummer and bass player and insist on drowning them out, not good. Thanks!
 
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Bob Kidd on December 12, 2016, 01:09:37 pm
Here's my cover band. No tracks.

http://youtu.be/Zt0i6Y_9slo

Sounds good Rob, Had band called Hell's Bells come through last week. Excellent band!
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Steve Garris on December 12, 2016, 01:23:22 pm
Disco Inferno and Spazmatics are two franchise bands that Tim refers to.  Both have Cleveland roots.  As he mentioned they are the real deal and the balance of tracks and live is just right for the genre.  These bands do as well as any bar band around and a timely visit from them can make a struggling venues month, they do that well.

Here in Seattle they're The Aphrodisiacs and Spazmatics - same guys do both bands. They call the tracks "Sammy". These guys are phenomenal musicians, and still hanging in there. I've mixed them a a couple of occasions in the past 20 years.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: John Chiara on December 12, 2016, 01:44:10 pm
I am contracted at a new local venue...lots of radio station sponsors shows.
Except for straight acoustic acts...EVERY electric touring band has used tracks. From simple supplements to a keyboardist and a singer with full accompanying music and background and lead vocals. From the audience perspective, I am for whatever makes the show enjoyable! There is a regional cover band I have seen thatbis basically performers playing along with tracks. No drum mics...etc.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Stephen Kirby on December 12, 2016, 02:36:15 pm
It's hard when there isn't enough money for a stage full of musicians and the music people want to hear has all this production in it.

One of the more interesting bands I've seen had a live drummer, bass, and guitar.  Along with a front man/singer.  Everybody else sang and the rest of the things were on tracks.  This gave a live, grooving rhythm section compared to the usual thing of canned rhythm and playing the color parts live.  Main thing was that the drummer was very good and could lock in with the tracks without sounding like he was chasing them.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Rick Powell on December 12, 2016, 06:12:52 pm
Main thing was that the drummer was very good and could lock in with the tracks without sounding like he was chasing them.

^^^^^
THIS is what separates the big kids from the little kids. When the track sounds like it grooves to the drummer instead of the other way around.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Stephen Kirby on December 12, 2016, 07:28:47 pm
^^^^^
THIS is what separates the big kids from the little kids. When the track sounds like it grooves to the drummer instead of the other way around.
https://youtu.be/uiXE87DWaAg (https://youtu.be/uiXE87DWaAg)
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Scott Levine on December 23, 2016, 06:26:19 pm
Band sounds excellent!  I'm a huge Bon Scott fan, so it's great to hear someone who can pull him off well!

But in all fairness to the conversation....it's AC/DC, what tracks could there be??  LOL
Bagpipes in "Its a long way to the top".


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Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Dennis Wiggins on December 23, 2016, 06:54:45 pm
dot-dot-dot

Tim.  When did this all happen?  As recent as (I'll say) 2010, bands actually (really) played without tracks.  Those that tried to were easily detected.  Here in northern Illinois we had 2 really great bands that actually played.  One was 'Dot-Dot-Dot'; the other 'High Infidelity'.  They were a blast to dance to.

Whew!  I gotta get back in the beer tent!

-Dennis
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Tim McCulloch on December 23, 2016, 07:23:55 pm
Tim.  When did this all happen?  As recent as (I'll say) 2010, bands actually (really) played without tracks.  Those that tried to were easily detected.  Here in northern Illinois we had 2 really great bands that actually played.  One was 'Dot-Dot-Dot'; the other 'High Infidelity'.  They were a blast to dance to.

Whew!  I gotta get back in the beer tent!

-Dennis

LOL... there are plenty of "cover" bands that play live all that you hear.  *Tribute* acts may or may not use various levels of pre-oozed sweetening with the live performance; it depends. ;)
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Stephen Kirby on December 23, 2016, 09:32:06 pm
Company Holiday party had some Latin band from LA that played some covers and some of their own stuff.  Full line up and two horns but lots of tracks with various folks ditching their instruments to be frontmen.  Drummer had his hands full starting and stopping things.  At times it grooved by often sounded disjointed.  Also, their BE went overboard cranking it.  I was getting 110dBA slow at the back of the dance area.  Everyone I talked to at work the following week said it was way too loud.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Helge A Bentsen on December 24, 2016, 05:22:46 am
Some bands actually get's better with tracks.

I'm working with a band that wanted tracks on some songs and they never got it working because they didn't invest the time and gear necessary to make it happen. Not a lot needed but more than a ipod with one channe of click and one channel of tracks.

We landed a solution with 5 channels from Qlab (mono click and 2x stereo tracks) and IEMs for the drummer/lead vox. This changed two things.

The songs with tracks now works and sounds great.

Added bonus, the whole set sounds tighter and more composed. The drummer is a great guy but he has "tempo tourettes", as a set progress along he has a tendency to start the songs too fast. Now the set has three to four tempo autocorrect points, it really makes a difference.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Jay Marr on December 24, 2016, 08:05:24 am
Bagpipes in "Its a long way to the top".


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Ironically enough....this is the only AC/DC song my band does.  And we do it with live bag pipes.
Of course we only do the song when my buddy who's a piper, shows up to hang out.....and of course, he never forgets to have his pipes in the car :)
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Scott Levine on December 24, 2016, 11:00:50 am
And I have never miked up bagpipes! 


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Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Jay Marr on December 24, 2016, 11:08:18 am
And I have never miked up bagpipes! 


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In the clubs we play, we just lower one of the vocal mics in front of it and it picks up just fine (for rock and roll!).

You think girls like the lead singer.....it's nothing compared to how they swarm to a piper after he gets up and kills that song.
And he deserves it....that instrument is insanely hard to play.  I've tried his pipes and I can barely get a honk out of them.  Much respect for the pipers.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Scott Levine on December 24, 2016, 06:32:25 pm
In the clubs we play, we just lower one of the vocal mics in front of it and it picks up just fine (for rock and roll!).

You think girls like the lead singer.....it's nothing compared to how they swarm to a piper after he gets up and kills that song.
And he deserves it....that instrument is insanely hard to play.  I've tried his pipes and I can barely get a honk out of them.  Much respect for the pipers.
I do a lot of cultural shows. All kinds of fun instruments. The one I hate the most is the brake drum. Ha ha. There is almost always a wandering guy at West Indian festivals banging away on one and for some reason he chooses to circle the mixing console. I am glad HE had a good time. Ha ha.


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Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Rob Gow on December 24, 2016, 08:59:40 pm
And I have never miked up bagpipes! 


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Just put a 57 on it ;)
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Scott Levine on December 24, 2016, 09:02:58 pm
Just put a 57 on it ;)
I know...  I know...


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Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Bob Leonard on December 24, 2016, 09:52:25 pm
LOL... there are plenty of "cover" bands that play live all that you hear.  *Tribute* acts may or may not use various levels of pre-oozed sweetening with the live performance; it depends. ;)

Tim, You know I've worked with MIDI files to supplement the back line for many, many years and as time went by started using fewer musicians. The problem with most people who use tracks is usually the poor system they use to replicate the instrument, or inability to work in proper time with the track behind them.

What you can't duplicate are guitars, so I guess that's my salvation. But horns, organs, keyboards and bass, those you can always replicate through a good sound module I think I've said in the past that support for my backline is run through a dual system separating the vocals from the instruments. That being said though, the real key to success has been the best Roland sound modules money will buy, and using their ability to run instruments through eight separate outputs to eight separate mixer channels all running to their own sub system within the board. Maximum impact and the proper sound can only be achieved by tuning each channel for the instrument it supports. Nothing like a great horn section that doesn't have some whiner from Berkley nit picking because his music stand light is too dim. And better yet, you don't have to pay the sound modules.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Mike Smith on December 24, 2016, 10:15:33 pm
Just put a 57 on it ;)

Poke it with a 57 until you let the air out of it.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Scott Holtzman on December 24, 2016, 10:21:13 pm
Nothing like a great horn section that doesn't have some whiner from Berkley nit picking because his music stand light is too dim. And better yet, you don't have to pay the sound modules.

I've worked with that guy
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Tim McCulloch on December 24, 2016, 10:55:34 pm
Tim, You know I've worked with MIDI files to supplement the back line for many, many years and as time went by started using fewer musicians. The problem with most people who use tracks is usually the poor system they use to replicate the instrument, or inability to work in proper time with the track behind them.

What you can't duplicate are guitars, so I guess that's my salvation. But horns, organs, keyboards and bass, those you can always replicate through a good sound module I think I've said in the past that support for my backline is run through a dual system separating the vocals from the instruments. That being said though, the real key to success has been the best Roland sound modules money will buy, and using their ability to run instruments through eight separate outputs to eight separate mixer channels all running to their own sub system within the board. Maximum impact and the proper sound can only be achieved by tuning each channel for the instrument it supports. Nothing like a great horn section that doesn't have some whiner from Berkley nit picking because his music stand light is too dim. And better yet, you don't have to pay the sound modules.

Some of my favorites whiners have come from Berklee!

I totally get your use of MIDI, Bob.  Thing is you could still make *music* if your samplers took a dive; might not be the Bob's Big Band effect but you'd manage to credibly play for the 45-60 min until you could jump start the rig.

You have also crafted the instrument sounds to your liking and reworked arrangements to suit your needs.  What you're doing isn't karaoke.

I'm seeing more and more *original* acts that rely on tracks, bands that couldn't present 10 minutes of program without the playback elements.  I get anywhere from 1-6 tracks at FOH; most of the time it's ONE track and ONE line from a drum pad sampler.  I'd love to get more granularity in the sources...

Welcome back, you home for a while?
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: duane massey on December 25, 2016, 11:33:52 am
As a working musician I have several issues with tracks, but I am NOT critical of those who use them if they need them. I just happen to play two the instruments most commonly replaced by tracks (trumpet and keyboards), and the use of tracks has certainly not helped me in most ways. I have been doing a jazz/pop gig lately (no tracks, live everything), and we have used several substitute bass players this month, and the ones who have been playing mostly to tracks are noticeably weaker in terms of timing and groove than those who rarely if ever play to tracks.
As far as the whiny horn players, I bring my own stand, light, mic, and powered monitor to every gig. No excuse if you're a working pro. However, I have been irritated many times by the popular concept that horn players either (1) don't need a monitor, or (2) can all share one with the same mix as ___________. I've been told "You don't need a mic, you're loud enough", or "Here, you guys share this mic, cause I need two for the snare drum".
Oh, Merry Christmas to all.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: David Buckley on December 25, 2016, 04:19:09 pm
What you can't duplicate are guitars.....

But you can get close... (http://davidbuckley.name/clips/dsmn_gtr_solo.mp3) (MP3 380KB).
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Bob Leonard on December 25, 2016, 10:04:23 pm
Tim,
Hopefully I'll be back for a while. Pretty tough to put everything on hold, and the worst part is the effect on this 65 year old body. Tired all the time now.

Duane,
I'll take a live horn section any day of the week if only you could keep one together for more than an hour, have them show up for a practice or two, and basically stop arguing about all the tiny itty bitty things that nobody cares about.

David,

Not even close. No expression, no touch, no feel, and pretty piss poor tone. Other than that it sounds OK.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Tim Weaver on December 26, 2016, 12:08:16 am
But you can get close... (http://davidbuckley.name/clips/dsmn_gtr_solo.mp3) (MP3 380KB).

Yeeeeaaahhhh. No thanks.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Stephen Kirby on December 26, 2016, 02:31:21 am
I remember having a soundsheet (like a record that came in a magazine) of the Yamaha wind controller when it came out.  The guy did a pretty convincing Jimi with it.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Robert Lofgren on December 26, 2016, 03:48:19 am
But you can get close... (http://davidbuckley.name/clips/dsmn_gtr_solo.mp3) (MP3 380KB).
Yuk!
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Robert Lofgren on December 26, 2016, 03:56:15 am
I remember having a soundsheet (like a record that came in a magazine) of the Yamaha wind controller when it came out.  The guy did a pretty convincing Jimi with it.
If one were to take the DI'ed signal from a e-guitar and create multi-layer samples triggered by midi then going through some ampsim/stomps then it would probably sound more convincing than the mp3 some posts ago. The dead giveaway is the lack of articulation. A breath controller can help with that, I guess...
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Steve M Smith on December 26, 2016, 09:03:17 am
If one were to take the DI'ed signal from a e-guitar and create multi-layer samples triggered by midi then going through some ampsim/stomps then it would probably sound more convincing than the mp3 some posts ago. The dead giveaway is the lack of articulation. A breath controller can help with that, I guess...

You could... or you could just stay at home and listen to CDs!


Steve.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Tim Weaver on December 26, 2016, 10:25:05 am
If one were to take the DI'ed signal from a e-guitar and create multi-layer samples triggered by midi then going through some ampsim/stomps then it would probably sound more convincing than the mp3 some posts ago. The dead giveaway is the lack of articulation. A breath controller can help with that, I guess...

Or you could run a cord from a Strat straight to a Fender Twin and dime the thing. Plenty of people that couldn't "really" play got away with doing it this way.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: John L Nobile on December 26, 2016, 01:07:02 pm
But you can get close... (http://davidbuckley.name/clips/dsmn_gtr_solo.mp3) (MP3 380KB).

There's gotta be better examples out there.

Having said that, guitar has to be one of the hardest things to mimic and I'd never try to replace one with a synth. But I do remember getting a great guitar sound running a Wurlitzer through a Roland Jet Phazer years ago. But no expression or feel.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Stephen Kirby on December 26, 2016, 06:06:24 pm
Or you could run a cord from a Strat straight to a Fender Twin and dime the thing. Plenty of people that couldn't "really" play got away with doing it this way.
Pretty unforgiving rig.  Twins are tough to break up, and a Strat with stock pickups is going to end up pretty clean.  Nowhere to hide.  Unlike the modern rectum fryer, that masks everything you do and makes everyone sound the same.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Ned Ward on December 27, 2016, 10:46:01 am
The Spazmatics.

They are really good players. You have to audition to get that gig and be:
A) willing to wear the rediculous outfits
B) Be a legit great player


Totally agree. We've opened for them several times at Saint Rocke in Hermosa Beach, and besides being great players in ridiculous costumes, they work the crowd!


Our band plays covers, and no tracks. The only concession I have is the TC Electronic Harmony G XT, which lets me add a vocal 3rd that will switch from major to minor depending on the chords I'm playing. Sort of cheating, but it is my voice. We have it down in the mix so you barely hear it, and you'll see some people looking on stage wondering if our drummer is singing... Our thing is to go with what we have and make the song our own.
www.facebook.com/thetoysband
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Andrew Henderson on December 27, 2016, 10:54:17 am
But you can get close... (http://davidbuckley.name/clips/dsmn_gtr_solo.mp3) (MP3 380KB).
Noooooooooo
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: David Buckley on December 27, 2016, 04:05:32 pm
David, Not even close. No expression, no touch, no feel, and pretty piss poor tone. Other than that it sounds OK.

So you liked it then :)

To be fair, many real guitarists have that list of problems too, particularly the last one, and add to it the inability to actually play in tune, particularly on bends with vibrato.  Screaming electric guitar done right is not an easy thing.  So yeah, your job is safe!

If one were to take the DI'ed signal from a e-guitar and create multi-layer samples triggered by midi then going through some ampsim/stomps then it would probably sound more convincing than the mp3 some posts ago.

That's exactly how that patch on a Korg Triton works.

It's the distortion after sampling that is important, though that example doesn't illustrate that.  There is a massive difference between distorting the sum of several clean sounds, which is what happens when Les Paul meets Marshall, or six distorted sounds mixing cleanly, like hexaphonic fuzz on a Roland guitar synth.  This is how many earlier attempts at reproducing distorted guitar on a synth failed even more spectacularly.

Here's another one on YouTube, just for fun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3JhFV13ecA).
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Jay Marr on December 27, 2016, 08:01:34 pm


To be fair, many real guitarists have that list of problems too, particularly the last one, and add to it the inability to actually play in tune, particularly on bends with vibrato.  Screaming electric guitar done right is not an easy thing.  So yeah, your job is safe!


Not in my neck of the woods (Boston).
There are 100 guitar players (that are excellent) and it's by far the easiest musician to find here.
Good drummers are the rarity.  YMMV.

Oh, and that midi guitar clip was disturbing.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: duane massey on December 27, 2016, 08:24:30 pm
Here's something you will REALLY find disturbing. Recorded this as a slight humorous jab at a friend who is really into the cliched metal guitar licks of the 80's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhW9d5CfHqA&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Rob Gow on January 03, 2017, 12:33:11 am
Couple videos from our NYE gig

Mony Mony
http://youtu.be/xjNfoXKqjG0

TNT
http://youtu.be/sSEdunzYJBI
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Steve Garris on January 03, 2017, 02:02:01 pm
Our NYE also a huge success. I ran the Afrodesiacs the night before in this room. NYE was (2) bands, with my main band Hair Nation headlining. Everything went off great with both killer sound and a great light show. The house was filled beyond capacity. This was a proud moment for me.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Scott Holtzman on January 03, 2017, 07:35:03 pm
Are those speakers flown from the handles with ratchet straps?

Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Tim McCulloch on January 03, 2017, 07:47:38 pm
Are those speakers flown from the handles with ratchet straps?

It so appears.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Steve M Smith on January 04, 2017, 03:06:54 am
Not in my neck of the woods (Boston).
There are 100 guitar players (that are excellent) and it's by far the easiest musician to find here.
Good drummers are the rarity.  YMMV.

God drummers are also rare here in my part of England.

Actually, that's not quite true.  I know half a dozen top quality drummers.  It's drummers who are free to gig which are in short supply.


Steve.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Steve Garris on January 04, 2017, 04:39:13 pm
Are those speakers flown from the handles with ratchet straps?

Yep, and those are PRX500 series tops. I was adamant to everyone involved when those were going up, that I have nothing to do with it!

I had a post here for PA suggestions at this new venue. we where talking anything from an SRX 800 series powered PA to a small Danely rig. But all of that went out the window when we found out the budget was $0.

The sub is a single SRX passive double 18, powered by something (not sure) and processed by a DR260, I believe. It actually sounds better than my single 18's split on either side of the stage. But we need better tops, and I want to turn the left top in towards the dance floor.
Title: Re: Cover bands
Post by: Bob Kidd on January 04, 2017, 09:46:19 pm
Yep, and those are PRX500 series tops. I was adamant to everyone involved when those were going up, that I have nothing to do with it!

I had a post here for PA suggestions at this new venue. we where talking anything from an SRX 800 series powered PA to a small Danely rig. But all of that went out the window when we found out the budget was $0.

The sub is a single SRX passive double 18, powered by something (not sure) and processed by a DR260, I believe. It actually sounds better than my single 18's split on either side of the stage. But we need better tops, and I want to turn the left top in towards the dance floor.

515s, sure it struggles to keep up with SRX subs.