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Title: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on September 26, 2016, 04:35:41 pm
I have a DNA20k4 amp on it's way. It has a 32a powercon on the chassis with a L6-20 250v plug on the end. I'll need to occasionally use this with out a distro, and I'm unsure how to wire up a 15a 120v adaptor to this.
Am I correct that an L6-20 250v has 2 hots and a ground? No neutral? 
Thanks,
BJ
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Yoel Farkas on September 26, 2016, 04:51:18 pm
I have a DNA20k4 amp on it's way. It has a 32a powercon on the chassis with a L6-20 250v plug on the end. I'll need to occasionally use this with out a distro, and I'm unsure how to wire up a 15a 120v adaptor to this.
Am I correct that an L6-20 250v has 2 hots and a ground? No neutral? 
Thanks,
BJ
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on September 26, 2016, 04:54:57 pm
I have a DNA20k4 amp on it's way. It has a 32a powercon on the chassis with a L6-20 250v plug on the end. I'll need to occasionally use this with out a distro, and I'm unsure how to wire up a 15a 120v adaptor to this.
Am I correct that an L6-20 250v has 2 hots and a ground? No neutral? 
Thanks,
BJ
Being clear here, you're trying to allow your amp to be powered from a standard Edison receptacle, so you're making a NEMA 5-15P to NEMA L6-20R adapter.  Normally adapters like these are spoken of in order of signal flow, so what you mentioned would be the reverse - trying to get 120v out of an L6-20 receptacle - something that isn't safely possible.  The adapter you're wanting doesn't pose a safety issue (assuming your amp is happy at 120v) and is wired per Yoel's diagram.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on September 26, 2016, 04:59:30 pm
Thanks Yoel and TJ,
TJ, you're correct in what I'm trying to explain. The diagram Yoel attached is what I would expect for a 120v L6-20. I assumed that a 240v would have 2 hots, thus my confusion.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Yoel Farkas on September 26, 2016, 05:24:38 pm
Thanks Yoel and TJ,
TJ, you're correct in what I'm trying to explain. The diagram Yoel attached is what I would expect for a 120v L6-20. I assumed that a 240v would have 2 hots, thus my confusion.

i also have the DNA20k4. i use it mostly with 220V. i have made an adapter that takes the 2 hots of the L6-20 to 2 Edison so i can get 220V from 2 20a 120V lines. i know it sounds crazy.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on September 26, 2016, 05:26:22 pm
Thanks Yoel and TJ,
TJ, you're correct in what I'm trying to explain. The diagram Yoel attached is what I would expect for a 120v L6-20. I assumed that a 240v would have 2 hots, thus my confusion.
A 240v receptacle does have two hots.  The L6 series has 2 hots and a ground.  The 14/L14 series has 2 hots, one neutral, and one ground.  Normally hots and neutrals are not interchangeable, but in your specific case it will work and be safe.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on September 26, 2016, 05:32:01 pm
i also have the DNA20k4. i use it mostly with 220V. i have made an adapter that takes the 2 hots of the L6-20 to 2 Edison so i can get 220V from 2 20a 120V lines. i know it sounds crazy.
This is not safe.  These "octopus" adapters combine neutral wires between circuits and are vulnerable to a lot of wiring errors - i.e. if one circuit is H/N reversed, you'll have a light show from your plug.  Additionally, if you happen to use two circuits on the same phase, you will overload the neutral wire in the venue, creating a significant fire hazard in the walls of the building or in your equipment wiring. 

This, IMO, is what makes the mega amps poor choices for folks who don't always have heavy power available.  You're better off with two smaller amps that can be legally split to two circuits than one 4 channel amp that needs heavy power.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Yoel Farkas on September 26, 2016, 05:50:38 pm
This is not safe.  These "octopus" adapters combine neutral wires between circuits and are vulnerable to a lot of wiring errors - i.e. if one circuit is H/N reversed, you'll have a light show from your plug.  Additionally, if you happen to use two circuits on the same phase, you will overload the neutral wire in the venue, creating a significant fire hazard in the walls of the building or in your equipment wiring. 

This, IMO, is what makes the mega amps poor choices for folks who don't always have heavy power available.  You're better off with two smaller amps that can be legally split to two circuits than one 4 channel amp that needs heavy power.
Look at the diagram.
the Neutrals are not connected anywhere.
if one circuit is reversed it will be 120V. it will work but not full power.
if it is the same phase it will just not work. nothing will blow..
i don't think it is legal but it is safe.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Rob Spence on September 26, 2016, 06:58:52 pm
I would think that the appropriate solution here is to purchase a powercon cable mount connector that will mate to the amp and make a 120v cable assembly for the amp. Messing with odd adapters is a pain and if done wrong can be dangerous.


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Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Stephen Kirby on September 26, 2016, 07:14:40 pm
I would think that the appropriate solution here is to purchase a powercon cable mount connector that will mate to the amp and make a 120v cable assembly for the amp. Messing with odd adapters is a pain and if done wrong can be dangerous.


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Agreed, the amp will run on 115 according to the spec sheet.  A mains cable specifically for that application will allow you to use the amp and nobody will take some oddball speciality adapter and accidentally use it in some unintended fashion.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 26, 2016, 07:29:15 pm
I have a DNA20k4 amp on it's way. It has a 32a powercon on the chassis with a L6-20 250v plug on the end. I'll need to occasionally use this with out a distro, and I'm unsure how to wire up a 15a 120v adaptor to this.
Am I correct that an L6-20 250v has 2 hots and a ground? No neutral? 
Thanks,
BJ
Here is what we do "at the shop".

Get a female L6-20.  Lowes and Home depot have them.  And a regular edison male plug.

Hook the ground to the ground.  Then the other 2 leads to the edison.  It doesn't matter which ones you connect where.

This was we can plug the L6-20 into a regular 208-240V circuit or plug it into a regular edison outlet.

The polarity does not matter 
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on September 26, 2016, 09:16:13 pm
Look at the diagram.
the Neutrals are not connected anywhere.
if one circuit is reversed it will be 120V. it will work but not full power.
if it is the same phase it will just not work. nothing will blow..
i don't think it is legal but it is safe.
You are right - I wrote that quickly and was thinking of a power distro situation where there is a neutral bus.

That said, your adapter is still not legal, and not completely safe, as the two circuits you are drawing from do not have a common trip breaker, and do not have a common connector, which means that if the amp is powered on and one plug is plugged in, line voltage is present at the other male plug.  Also, if only one of the two supply breakers trips, the amp will stop operating, however it has failed in a way that is still energized, which would be very surprising to someone who didn't thoroughly understand what you're doing.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Thomas Lamb on September 26, 2016, 10:23:58 pm
I would think that the appropriate solution here is to purchase a powercon cable mount connector that will mate to the amp and make a 120v cable assembly for the amp. Messing with odd adapters is a pain and if done wrong can be dangerous.


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+1 by another 32amp power on and an Edison. Then you have a 110 cable and a 220 cable and not a mess of an adapter that while it may be safe it's not code correct.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Geoff Doane on September 28, 2016, 09:43:19 am
Look at the diagram.
the Neutrals are not connected anywhere.
if one circuit is reversed it will be 120V. it will work but not full power.
if it is the same phase it will just not work. nothing will blow..
i don't think it is legal but it is safe.

But Yoel, think about what happens if you unplug one of the edisons, while the amp is still connected.  The 120V from one outlet travels through the amp and out the hot pin of the unplugged Edison, presenting a shock hazard to anyone or anything that comes in contact with it.  (Can you tell I've done this in the past, and thought through the possible downsides?  ;) ).  I think that's the biggest reason you shouldn't use such an adapter.  It might be acceptable in the shop, for testing purposes only, but not out on a gig where other distractions could cause accidents to happen.

I like Ivan's solution better.  It's perfectly safe.  It will work under all conditions.  You just can't get full power out of the amp, which shouldn't be a show stopping condition.  If you need full power, you'll need a proper distro, tied into a proper service.  Simple as that.

GTD

edit:  I see I've just restated what TJ said two days ago (two responses up)
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Yoel Farkas on September 28, 2016, 10:23:13 am
But Yoel, think about what happens if you unplug one of the edisons, while the amp is still connected.  The 120V from one outlet travels through the amp and out the hot pin of the unplugged Edison, presenting a shock hazard to anyone or anything that comes in contact with it.  (Can you tell I've done this in the past, and thought through the possible downsides?  ;) ).  I think that's the biggest reason you shouldn't use such an adapter.  It might be acceptable in the shop, for testing purposes only, but not out on a gig where other distractions could cause accidents to happen.

I like Ivan's solution better.  It's perfectly safe.  It will work under all conditions.  You just can't get full power out of the amp, which shouldn't be a show stopping condition.  If you need full power, you'll need a proper distro, tied into a proper service.  Simple as that.

GTD

edit:  I see I've just restated what TJ said two days ago (two responses up)
That's right.

This was the only concern i have about it. i did not mentioned it here before, because i never measured it to see if it returns power since it have a universal transformer.

I only use it on situations where i can't use my Distro box.

i always make sure to plug the Edison in first before i connect the L6-20.


i use the amps for my 2 J1's which need full power. covering more then 35k sqf. so i choose to rather go full power on the amp and not take a chance of tripping the breaker during the show.


Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Josh Evangelista on October 22, 2016, 08:01:46 pm
Hey guys want to chime in 'cause my DNA20K4 is arriving soon.

So granting you plugged this on two 120V, 15-amp outlets on two separate circuits, will you now draw 30amp on 240V? Which means can I run a DNA20K4 at full power, like 4 DBHs at 2ohms bridged or 8 TH118s at 2ohms bridged?
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Josh Evangelista on October 22, 2016, 08:11:03 pm
Nevermind. I found out it stays at 15amp. The question now is if I can go full power on the amp.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on October 22, 2016, 10:02:41 pm
Nevermind. I found out it stays at 15amp. The question now is if I can go full power on the amp.
Not legally or safely. If you can't use a distro with the appropriate receptacle, just use the single edison adaptor. I made up a powercon to uground cable and it eorks fine although not full power.
BJ
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Josh Evangelista on October 27, 2016, 02:07:16 am
Not legally or safely. If you can't use a distro with the appropriate receptacle, just use the single edison adaptor. I made up a powercon to uground cable and it eorks fine although not full power.
BJ

What Danley cabs are you powering it with and how many? Did you set amp to limit?
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on October 29, 2016, 03:55:26 am
What Danley cabs are you powering it with and how many? Did you set amp to limit?
Just 2x ea Sm80 and TH118, one per channel. I used Danley settings but had early limiting during first real workout. See my post in the Lounge.

Edited: You were probably asking about the adjustable AC breaker protection. I did dial it down to 20a and kept an eye on the laptop. It showed I was using less than 10a. This amp should give out plenty with 120v.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Josh Evangelista on December 17, 2016, 02:44:59 am
Not legally or safely. If you can't use a distro with the appropriate receptacle, just use the single edison adaptor. I made up a powercon to uground cable and it eorks fine although not full power.
BJ

BJ whats a uground cable?
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Josh Evangelista on December 17, 2016, 02:46:12 am
Here is what we do "at the shop".

Get a female L6-20.  Lowes and Home depot have them.  And a regular edison male plug.

Hook the ground to the ground.  Then the other 2 leads to the edison.  It doesn't matter which ones you connect where.

This was we can plug the L6-20 into a regular 208-240V circuit or plug it into a regular edison outlet.

The polarity does not matter

Ivan,

How do I plug this if I have a Furman 20amp power conditioner? Should I also make one that has a 20amp edison?
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Matthew Knischewsky on December 18, 2016, 04:03:33 pm
BJ whats a uground cable?

That's Canadian for "Edison"
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Keith Broughton on December 18, 2016, 04:35:53 pm
That's Canadian for "Edison"
The ground pin is shaped like a U and that's how we refer to them.
Why do the Americans call it an Edison? Did he "invent" that as well?
Seems ironic as he was against AC power.
Maybe we should call them Teslas  ;D
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 18, 2016, 04:37:12 pm
Ivan,

How do I plug this if I have a Furman 20amp power conditioner? Should I also make one that has a 20amp edison?
Yes you could use a 20A Edison and wire it the same as a 15A Edison.

Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on December 23, 2016, 09:08:54 am
Ivan,

How do I plug this if I have a Furman 20amp power conditioner? Should I also make one that has a 20amp edison?
Forgive me if I've missed some of the back story, but I would not recommend plugging an amp - especially the big Danley - into any power conditioner.  They don't actually "condition" anything, and the extra wiring and monkey business the Furman adds will increase voltage drop, lowering the available power to your amp.  This whole thread is about trying to adapt a big dog amp to run on power that is marginal for its capabilities; don't make it worse by adding extra gear on the circuit you're using for your amp.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Keith Broughton on December 23, 2016, 09:41:14 am
This whole thread is about trying to adapt a big dog amp to run on power that is marginal for its capabilities; don't make it worse by adding extra gear on the circuit you're using for your amp.
Well said!
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 23, 2016, 12:30:23 pm
Forgive me if I've missed some of the back story, but I would not recommend plugging an amp - especially the big Danley - into any power conditioner.  They don't actually "condition" anything, and the extra wiring and monkey business the Furman adds will increase voltage drop, lowering the available power to your amp.  This whole thread is about trying to adapt a big dog amp to run on power that is marginal for its capabilities; don't make it worse by adding extra gear on the circuit you're using for your amp.
EXACTLY!

You need to plug the amps as directly as possible into a solid power source.

"power conditioners" are nothing but an expensive name for an "outlet strip".
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Frank DeWitt on December 23, 2016, 02:16:46 pm
The ground pin is shaped like a U and that's how we refer to them.
Why do the Americans call it an Edison? Did he "invent" that as well?
Seems ironic as he was against AC power.
Maybe we should call them Teslas  ;D

I don't know of any good reason to call them Edison. He didn't invent any kind of plug and receptacle.  He invented a home lighting system. Generation, distribution (BTW with two hot conductors sharing one neutral,) house wiring including fuses, and light fixtures with the screw in lamp base we use today.  He even trained the first home electricians.  He did a lot but he was designing a system to compete with gas lighting. He didn't think of small appliances or portable lighting.

The Plug or plug cap was invented by Hubbell in 1903  (He also invented the pull chain lamp socket)  The U ground plug was invented by Philip F. Labre in 1928
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on December 23, 2016, 02:53:13 pm
Mods: can you retitle the thread to L6-20 250v to 15a Labre
j/k

Merry Christmas All.
BJ
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: Mike Sokol on December 23, 2016, 03:40:23 pm
Mods: can you retitle the thread to L6-20 250v to 15a Labre
j/k

Merry Christmas All.
BJ

Done...
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: Bradford "BJ" James on December 23, 2016, 04:57:48 pm
Done...
lol
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Stephen Kirby on December 27, 2016, 05:57:31 pm
I don't know of any good reason to call them Edison. He didn't invent any kind of plug and receptacle.  He invented a home lighting system. Generation, distribution (BTW with two hot conductors sharing one neutral,) house wiring including fuses, and light fixtures with the screw in lamp base we use today.  He even trained the first home electricians.  He did a lot but he was designing a system to compete with gas lighting. He didn't think of small appliances or portable lighting.

The Plug or plug cap was invented by Hubbell in 1903  (He also invented the pull chain lamp socket)  The U ground plug was invented by Philip F. Labre in 1928
Actually an "Edison" outlet is what we commonly screw light bulbs into.  In the early days when there weren't many electrical gadgets, the power cords had an end that screwed into the sockets for "Edison" type lamps.  As mentioned, we didn't have pronged plugs with the associated sockets until Hubbell, and that took awhile to supplant the Edison lamp sockets.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Mike Sokol on December 27, 2016, 06:11:28 pm
Actually an "Edison" outlet is what we commonly screw light bulbs into.  In the early days when there weren't many electrical gadgets, the power cords had an end that screwed into the sockets for "Edison" type lamps.  As mentioned, we didn't have pronged plugs with the associated sockets until Hubbell, and that took awhile to supplant the Edison lamp sockets.

Here's a modern LED upgrade for down lights. Note the "Edison" screw-in plug.
 
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: Craig Hauber on January 07, 2017, 03:58:19 pm
The ground pin is shaped like a U and that's how we refer to them.
Why do the Americans call it an Edison? Did he "invent" that as well?
Seems ironic as he was against AC power.
Maybe we should call them Teslas  ;D
Because not too long after that stage in our consumer electrical distribution system's development, most americans were paying their power bills to an entity with "Edison" in it's name from the late 80's onward (1880's  :)
Southern California and NYC Metro are still served to this day with power companies with Edison in their name and I'm sure there are others.
So it's quite obvious to call that connection to the power co. an "edison connector"

In my brief time in Canada everyone called their electric bill "Hydro" so I guess they had come up with a different name for their connector as "hydro connector" should actually imply hose fittings  :)
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: Daniel Levi on January 07, 2017, 05:00:03 pm
In Britain (which it turn out invented the plug and socket before Hubbell) it was common to plug things into ceiling lamps not only for convenience but originally lighting was billed separately to other power and was cheaper.   
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: Cailen Waddell on January 07, 2017, 07:27:20 pm
Here's a modern LED upgrade for down lights. Note the "Edison" screw-in plug.

An E26 screw base to be exact.


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Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison
Post by: John Sulek on January 08, 2017, 10:52:06 pm
Because not too long after that stage in our consumer electrical distribution system's development, most americans were paying their power bills to an entity with "Edison" in it's name from the late 80's onward (1880's  :)
Southern California and NYC Metro are still served to this day with power companies with Edison in their name and I'm sure there are others.
So it's quite obvious to call that connection to the power co. an "edison connector"

In my brief time in Canada everyone called their electric bill "Hydro" so I guess they had come up with a different name for their connector as "hydro connector" should actually imply hose fittings  :)

Up in the tundra, we call edison plugs "U ground" plugs.
Sorry for the redundancy...should've flipped back a bit.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on January 09, 2017, 02:04:17 am
An E26 screw base to be exact.

Maybe, maybe not. In North America and Japan, E26 (26 mm) is the standard Edison screw base. In Europe, it is E27 (27 mm).

You might screw an E26 lamp into an E27 socket, but not the other way 'round.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: Cailen Waddell on January 09, 2017, 08:23:47 am
Maybe, maybe not. In North America and Japan, E26 (26 mm) is the standard Edison screw base. In Europe, it is E27 (27 mm).

You might screw an E26 lamp into an E27 socket, but not the other way 'round.

Fair point.  I was making an assumption that we were looking at a US product. 

I've always enjoyed that bases are measured in mm, but lamp diameter is in 1/8ths of an inch (par38, T8)


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Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on January 09, 2017, 12:45:07 pm
Fair point.  I was making an assumption that we were looking at a US product. 

I've always enjoyed that bases are measured in mm, but lamp diameter is in 1/8ths of an inch (par38, T8)

Yes, it probably is a product made for the US market. Not necessarily US-made, though. You have to be careful when buying screw-base lamps online, as some sites may be selling an E-27 as "medium base". A little more searching I just did suggests that E-26 is typically for ~120V bulbs; E-27 for ~230V lamps. Some sites claim that E-26 and E-27 bases are interchangeable.

This page seems to do a good job of explaining the difference (https://www.earthled.com/blogs/led-lighting-faq-frequently-asked-questions/what-is-the-difference-between-e26-e27-and-a19)

Then there is my Toro zero-turn lawnmower (made in USA by Exmark, which is owned by Toro) with a Kawasaki (made in Japan) engine -- the engine is metric, but everything else on the lawnmower is SAE. I bought it (brand new) just over 3 years ago.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: Ron Ventour on March 02, 2019, 10:55:53 am
Just received a Linea Research 44m20 yesterday which is the same amp as the Danley DNA 20k4 but the power inlet is different on the LR, mines came with a 32a powercon connector.

What are my options here  plugging into 15/20 amp outlets in my house or connecting to a 50a 14-50 rac pac distro?

Any info would be greatly appreciated thanks

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Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on March 04, 2019, 04:45:09 pm
Just received a Linea Research 44m20 yesterday which is the same amp as the Danley DNA 20k4 but the power inlet is different on the LR, mines came with a 32a powercon connector.

What are my options here  plugging into 15/20 amp outlets in my house or connecting to a 50a 14-50 rac pac distro?

Any info would be greatly appreciated thanks

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Looks like you were helped in the other thread.  In the future, starting a (single) new thread with a new question would be the most efficient way to get help, rather than tagging onto two unrelated threads.
Title: Re: L6-20 250v to 15a edison (Labre)
Post by: Ron Ventour on March 04, 2019, 07:11:27 pm
Looks like you were helped in the other thread.  In the future, starting a (single) new thread with a new question would be the most efficient way to get help, rather than tagging onto two unrelated threads.
yes sir

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