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Title: Neutrik True1
Post by: Mike Sullivan on June 08, 2016, 07:46:26 am
Anyone using the Powercon True1 connector from Neutrik? I am thinking about using those connections for my new stage boxes and power uses (aside from to speaker) as they are weatherproof and live breakable. Build quad power boxes with in/out on each end and build a variety of 5, 10, 25, and 50 foot cables to use as jumpers. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Kevin Rudolph on June 08, 2016, 08:50:26 am
I did exactly that.  My power distro is exclusively Powercon True1, including OA Windsor quad boxes w/ powercon true1 through and edison outs, some leviton 4 in 1 boxes, a True1 Poor Mans Distro, 15' - 100' cables, 25' siamese XLR/powercon cables, true1 to V-Lock IEC adapters etc.  I wanted an system that I could run either 120v or 240v situation depending, and the cost per connector is affordable in comparison to other nema locking situations.

The big draw back is making the choice between 14ga SOOW or 12ga SJOOW.  My particular situation consists of the loungest of lounge level and Corporate AV - I have never seen an inspector and I don't expect to in the reasonable future.  Should I be fortunate enough to graduate out of lounge level, I am prepared to readdress the situation. 

If the connector could take 12ga SOOW I think it would be a home run no brainer.
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Jonathan Johnson on June 08, 2016, 02:04:33 pm
The big draw back is making the choice between 14ga SOOW or 12ga SJOOW.  My particular situation consists of the loungest of lounge level and Corporate AV - I have never seen an inspector and I don't expect to in the reasonable future.  Should I be fortunate enough to graduate out of lounge level, I am prepared to readdress the situation. 

If the connector could take 12ga SOOW I think it would be a home run no brainer.

I wonder if it would be permissible to strip a couple of inches of jacket off of the 12 AWG SOOW and replace it with heat shrink tubing (the tubing should extend over the SOOW jacket). That might reduce the OD of the cable enough to fit in the connector. If the SOOW jacket extends to the edge of the True1 connector, it still would be reasonably protected from the abuse the SOOW jacket is designed to protect against.

The potential problems I see:
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Kevin Rudolph on June 08, 2016, 02:17:58 pm
I wonder if it would be permissible to strip a couple of inches of jacket off of the 12 AWG SOOW and replace it with heat shrink tubing (the tubing should extend over the SOOW jacket). That might reduce the OD of the cable enough to fit in the connector. If the SOOW jacket extends to the edge of the True1 connector, it still would be reasonably protected from the abuse the SOOW jacket is designed to protect against.

The potential problems I see:
  • You lose some strain relief strength, as the internal clamps of the True1 connector wouldn't be on the main jacket of the cable. Preserving the paper or jute filler in the area covered only by heat shrink may help with the strain relief.
  • Potential for a sharper bend to form in the cable where it exits the connector, which could result in premature failure due to metal fatigue.
  • Raised eyebrows from the inspector -- I don't know about code permissibility.

If you butt splice the connector w/ the shrink wrap, maybe a dab of e-tape, then cover the whole assembly with a cable label and clear tube, it would probably be pretty hard to tell without very close inspection.  Sounds like a lot of work... may be worth it though.  More educated people than I can comment on the acceptability - my guess is it will depend on the inspector.
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: frank kayser on June 08, 2016, 04:53:26 pm
If you butt splice the connector w/ the shrink wrap, maybe a dab of e-tape, then cover the whole assembly with a cable label and clear tube, it would probably be pretty hard to tell without very close inspection.  Sounds like a lot of work... may be worth it though.  More educated people than I can comment on the acceptability - my guess is it will depend on the inspector.
IMO, Neutrik pulled a boner on this one. They're good for 20a USA, but will not take code-compliant SOOW or SEOOW.  I tried getting a reamer for 5/8" and open up the collet, but the way that yellow "seal" works, the reamer ended up a no-go.   So close. 
I thought of shaving the wire jacket to fit, but thought of the problems that might cause - stress right there at the connector, on the wire and/or jacket.


Unless Neutrik comes up with a larger collet/clamp... Pick your poison - 14ga SOOW heavier jacket or 12ga SJOOW larger conductors.  Or the old blue/white Powercon.


As an aside, funny thing when I cut plug off the "European" IEC cable that QSC supplies - I was expecting slightly smaller conductors (as they were for 240v) but also found no "fillers" or paper in the cable - just three conductors and the molded overjacket. Without the filler, they are smaller diameter, and much more flexible.  So why do the European cables get made up differently that the US cables?  Figure a hypothetical 12ga SOOW without the fillers probably could be a small enough diameter - granted the pull strength would be strictly on the copper vs on the fillers.


frank
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Mike Sokol on June 08, 2016, 07:38:10 pm
I've asked Mark Boyadjian from Neutrik USA to join this discussion and answer your questions about their True1 products. He's free to discuss and promote any Neutrik power products on this thread, so please treat him nicely. But go ahead and ask any hard questions and make any suggestions that are relevant. He's a great guy and very knowledgeable about anything Neutrik, so we're all going to learn a lot.

Mike Sokol   
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: frank kayser on June 08, 2016, 10:07:44 pm
I've asked Mark Boyadjian from Neutrik USA to join this discussion and answer your questions about their True1 products. He's free to discuss and promote any Neutrik power products on this thread, so please treat him nicely. But go ahead and ask any hard questions and make any suggestions that are relevant. He's a great guy and very knowledgeable about anything Neutrik, so we're all going to learn a lot.

Mike Sokol
Thank you, Mike.  I'll behave.
Welcome, Mark!
Title: Neutrik True1
Post by: Samuel Rees on June 08, 2016, 10:17:22 pm
IMO, Neutrik pulled a boner on this one. They're good for 20a USA, but will not take code-compliant SOOW or SEOOW.  I tried getting a reamer for 5/8" and open up the collet, but the way that yellow "seal" works, the reamer ended up a no-go.   So close. 
I thought of shaving the wire jacket to fit, but thought of the problems that might cause - stress right there at the connector, on the wire and/or jacket.


Unless Neutrik comes up with a larger collet/clamp... Pick your poison - 14ga SOOW heavier jacket or 12ga SJOOW larger conductors.  Or the old blue/white Powercon.


As an aside, funny thing when I cut plug off the "European" IEC cable that QSC supplies - I was expecting slightly smaller conductors (as they were for 240v) but also found no "fillers" or paper in the cable - just three conductors and the molded overjacket. Without the filler, they are smaller diameter, and much more flexible.  So why do the European cables get made up differently that the US cables?  Figure a hypothetical 12ga SOOW without the fillers probably could be a small enough diameter - granted the pull strength would be strictly on the copper vs on the fillers.


frank

Original bue/white powercon is really only good for 12/3 SJOOW, too. You can barely squeeze in some 12/3 SOOW, but it's clearly just being shoved in there and is bigger than the stated 15mm maximum cable chuck diameter. I have 12/3 SJOOW for all my blue/white and PMD.
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Nate Armstrong on June 09, 2016, 01:17:24 pm
I did exactly that.  My power distro is exclusively Powercon True1, including OA Windsor quad boxes w/ powercon true1 through and edison outs, some leviton 4 in 1 boxes, a True1 Poor Mans Distro, 15' - 100' cables, 25' siamese XLR/powercon cables, true1 to V-Lock IEC adapters etc.  I wanted an system that I could run either 120v or 240v situation depending, and the cost per connector is affordable in comparison to other nema locking situations.



It would be cool to see a picture of your distro system .
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Andrew Broughton on June 09, 2016, 03:53:00 pm
Why are you using SOOW? SJOOW is fine, (as would be SJOW if you can find it). J is rated for up to 300v.
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on June 09, 2016, 04:05:35 pm
Why are you using SOOW? SJOOW is fine, (as would be SJOW if you can find it). J is rated for up to 300v.

IIRC, SO (extra hard service) is required by the NEC in a theater space where it might be walked on or have something roll over it. SJ is only allowed when protected by a raceway.  At least that's what I think Mac and others have said and cited as to being Code.
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Russell Ault on June 09, 2016, 04:58:49 pm
Why are you using SOOW? SJOOW is fine, (as would be SJOW if you can find it). J is rated for up to 300v.

IIRC, SO (extra hard service) is required by the NEC in a theater space where it might be walked on or have something roll over it. SJ is only allowed when protected by a raceway.  At least that's what I think Mac and others have said and cited as to being Code.

I'd guess that's probably and NEC vs Canadian Electrical Code difference: "extra hard" (e.g. SOOW) is basically required by the NEC in a theatre unless the cable is somehow protected, whereas up here we're allowed to use basically anything as long as its rated for the actual load (unless it's exposed to "severe mechanical injury", in which case SO is called for).

For more discussion on this, see this topic (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,157302.html).

-Russ
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Andrew Broughton on June 09, 2016, 05:27:16 pm
Gotcha. It's ironic as I've seen far more code violations in the USA than I've ever seen in Canada. ;-)
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Kevin Rudolph on June 10, 2016, 09:34:56 am
It would be cool to see a picture of your distro system.

Another gentleman here posted some pictures of his powercon PMD mounted underneath his stage box, and that was my main inspiration - credit goes to that gentleman whose name escapes me.  A seperate post here mentioned the convenience of using a bus bar, so I did that as well.  I kinda ordered the parts before I had a clear vision for what I wanted to do, then felt obliged to use them.  I wanted the front panel to work more or less like a power strip, and I'm not crazy about the jumper thing, so I found some DPDT toggles (On/Off/On) rated 20a @ 250v and use the lower position as a "bus" only being fed by the red/stage left/audience right channel.  The up position is "local".  I did add a ring connector to one of the switches to throw another line to the ground bus - I may end up getting rubber tips for the switches but I wanted a more protection than just hoping the current would pass throw a paint scuff.  Meters well, anyways.

The color labeling was an after thought.  My first couple outings with it, I found it too challenging to direct my helpers where I wanted what plugged into and where to chase down problems.  I color coded the channels as well as my Nema 5-15p (not edisons!) via Leviton 5266 plugs w/ the colored  Clamp-1Y (http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=CLAMP-1R&section=37686&minisite=10251).  That has helped quite a bit.

If I had to do it over again, I would make some changes to the rear panel (and make more professional looking face plate decals).  I may actually rebuild it over my winter slow period.  I would replace the inlets with the inlet outlet combo so that I could run a 20a backlink stringer through the ground bus without chewing up three spots on the front panel.  Remove one switch, as I only really need three and can have one channel always "on".  I'd love to find a small amp meter/volt meter to plop in there w/ a four way rotary to be able to monitor things from time to time.

I know it seems like a lot of junk to cram into a 1u enclosure - I make a real effort to pack as small as possible.  I live and work in the city, need to park in tight spots most of the time, so 99% of my gigs I rock a Ford Transit Connect.
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Kevin Rudolph on June 10, 2016, 09:52:53 am
IMO, Neutrik pulled a boner on this one. They're good for 20a USA, but will not take code-compliant SOOW or SEOOW.  I tried getting a reamer for 5/8" and open up the collet, but the way that yellow "seal" works, the reamer ended up a no-go.   So close. 
I thought of shaving the wire jacket to fit, but thought of the problems that might cause - stress right there at the connector, on the wire and/or jacket.


Unless Neutrik comes up with a larger collet/clamp... Pick your poison - 14ga SOOW heavier jacket or 12ga SJOOW larger conductors.  Or the old blue/white Powercon.


As an aside, funny thing when I cut plug off the "European" IEC cable that QSC supplies - I was expecting slightly smaller conductors (as they were for 240v) but also found no "fillers" or paper in the cable - just three conductors and the molded overjacket. Without the filler, they are smaller diameter, and much more flexible.  So why do the European cables get made up differently that the US cables?  Figure a hypothetical 12ga SOOW without the fillers probably could be a small enough diameter - granted the pull strength would be strictly on the copper vs on the fillers.


frank

If I were to postulate, I would suggest the German engineers original design was with European electrical system in mind - therefore the goal was 16a/250v.  It may have been submitted to the UL and they may have been surprised by the 20a/120v rating, but that's what it's UL approved for so they slapped it on there.  Who knows?  Maybe our new friend at Nuetrik will enlighten us.

I did the same thing to my "European" blue locking iec cables and noticed the same thing.  I also bought some "v-link" 1' locking iec's to make adapters and they were constructed exactly the same way - no filler but lots of powdered release agent on the inner jackets.  To my recollection, even the Nema 5-15p to IEC C13 I've broke open were constructed that way.  Most likely in China for as cheaply as possible.  I know there are different specifications for appliance leads - these may fall under that category.
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: James Feenstra on June 10, 2016, 07:28:49 pm
Gotcha. It's ironic as I've seen far more code violations in the USA than I've ever seen in Canada. ;-)
Probably because we get inspected a LOT more than in the US....like, every outdoor event in Ontario has ESA inspections on power, at bare minimum from generator to main distribution.

I've seen inspectors go through every piece of gear to look for electrical approval stickers (CSA, ETL, TUV, etc) as well, especially on companies that are known to buy stuff direct from China frequently and/or cheap out proper equipment. They're given the option to remove it from the show or not continue the show....stops a lot of smaller companies from severely undercutting the bigger guys, at least on the outdoor events.
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Russell Ault on June 11, 2016, 12:33:09 am
Probably because we get inspected a LOT more than in the US....like, every outdoor event in Ontario has ESA inspections on power, at bare minimum from generator to main distribution.

I've seen inspectors go through every piece of gear to look for electrical approval stickers (CSA, ETL, TUV, etc) as well, especially on companies that are known to buy stuff direct from China frequently and/or cheap out proper equipment. They're given the option to remove it from the show or not continue the show....stops a lot of smaller companies from severely undercutting the bigger guys, at least on the outdoor events.

I would guess this probably varies by region; I'm pretty sure nothing I've ever done (outside of the major touring shows, anyway) has ever been looked at by an inspector. Heck, I'm not even 100% sure who the AHJ would be here, at least for power.

-Russ
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: dave briar on June 11, 2016, 06:36:58 pm
Please excuse a slight threadjack: The nine-month old FBT montitors at my normal venue came with True1 power cables and the strain relief on one cable 14/3 (SJOOW <-- I believe) loosened such that one of the connections failed. My "helper" twisted the plug 180 degrees to show me and sparks flew. I took the cable home and rewired it to Neutrik specs only to find out that the cables for the other three monitors were all wired reverse polarity -- hot/black wire to the "N" lug on the plug and white/neutral to the "L" lug. Other than making it slightly easier to make the connections -- the Neutrik specs indicate to cut the green/ground lead 3mm longer as it needs to be tucked between the other two when connecting but connecting reverse polarity aligns the order of the three leads in the jacket with the plug more easily -- I can't think of any reason the "factory" would have done this.  Has anyone ever seen this before? 

BTW, I added about one inch of heat-shrink tube to the jacket before reconnecting which seemed to make the strain relief more secure.

    ..dave
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on June 11, 2016, 07:06:33 pm
Please excuse a slight threadjack: The nine-month old FBT montitors at my normal venue came with True1 power cables and the strain relief on one cable 14/3 (SJOOW <-- I believe) loosened such that one of the connections failed. My "helper" twisted the plug 180 degrees to show me and sparks flew. I took the cable home and rewired it to Neutrik specs only to find out that the cables for the other three monitors were all wired reverse polarity -- hot/black wire to the "N" lug on the plug and white/neutral to the "L" lug. Other than making it slightly easier to make the connections -- the Neutrik specs indicate to cut the green/ground lead 3mm longer as it needs to be tucked between the other two when connecting but connecting reverse polarity aligns the order of the three leads in the jacket with the plug more easily -- I can't think of any reason the "factory" would have done this.  Has anyone ever seen this before? 

BTW, I added about one inch of heat-shrink tube to the jacket before reconnecting which seemed to make the strain relief more secure.

    ..dave

This sounds like the "factory" not paying attention to detail to make a quality product.  Simply flipping the sjoow end for end would align the wires better as well.  If you take a piece of sj or so and look at opposite ends, one end wil be black-white-green clockwise, the opposite clockwise. Typically, orienting the wire correctly makes wiring connectors simple.




Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: dave briar on June 11, 2016, 07:13:22 pm
This sounds like the "factory" not paying attention to detail to make a quality product.  Simply flipping the sjoow end for end would align the wires better as well.  If you take a piece of sj or so and look at opposite ends, one end wil be black-white-green clockwise, the opposite clockwise. Typically, orienting the wire correctly makes wiring connectors simple.
Good point on reversing the cable. However, the other end was a "molded on" Edison so maybe this was a multi-stage mixup. Maybe FBT bought some miswired Edison cables as "seconds" and just continued the miswiring. Still pretty disappointing on a $1,500 monitor.

    ..dave
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Nitin Sidhu on June 14, 2016, 01:55:41 pm
We are all true 1. I'll try and post some pictures tomorrow.

The initial True1 connectors still rarely fail, the screws holding the wires come loose. The newer one have Torx8 screws, and they have been solid so far. I don't know what the difference is.

i was looking for an alternative to C-form connectors, and this was ideal. Owing to being a small shop, we can barely manage to hold the cost of small purchases.
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Mike Sokol on June 14, 2016, 03:00:05 pm
IIRC, SO (extra hard service) is required by the NEC in a theater space where it might be walked on or have something roll over it. SJ is only allowed when protected by a raceway.  At least that's what I think Mac and others have said and cited as to being Code.
I finally got to speak to someone at Neutrik about this SJOOW vs SOOW question, and he directed me to 520.68 of the NEC. I've pasted it below in blue. According to my phone discussion, there was a change in the code allowing the use of 12-gauge SJOOW for our portable stage applications, but that's not how I'm interpreting the code.  A cursory reading suggests that SOOW (hard service) insulation would be required rather than SJOOW (Junior Service). And they did confirm that the True1 won't accept 12 Gauge SOOW but will accept the thinner SJOOW cable.

Perhaps it's how SOOW vs. SJOOW service ratings are being interpreted. Since SJOOW is rated for 300 volts and SOOW is rated for 600 volts, for our 120-volt distro the SJOOW is certainly within voltage specs. Maybe the answer lies in UL-1573 which discusses service ratings of cable for theater. See http://ulstandards.ul.com/standard/?id=1573

 520.68 Conductors for Portables .68 Conductors for Portables.
(A) Conductor Type Conductor Type.
(1) General. Flexible conductors, including cable extensions, used to supply portable stage equipment shall be listed extra-hard usage cords or cables.
(2) Stand Lamps. Listed, hard usage cord shall be permitted to supply stand lamps where the cord is not subject to physical damage and is protected by an overcurrent device rated at not over 20 amperes.
(3) High-Temperature Applications. A special assembly of conductors in sleeving not longer than 1.0 m (3.3 ft) shall be permitted to be employed in lieu of flexible cord if the individual wires are stranded and rated not less than 125C (257F) and the outer sleeve is glass fiber with a wall thickness of at least 0.635 mm (0.025 in.).
Portable stage equipment requiring flexible supply conductors with a higher temperature rating where one end is permanently attached to the equipment shall be permitted to employ alternate, suitable conductors as determined by a qualified testing laboratory and recognized test standards.
(4) Breakouts. Listed, hard usage (junior hard service) cords shall be permitted in breakout assemblies where all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The cords are utilized to connect between a single multipole connector containing two or more branch circuits and multiple 2-pole, 3-wire connectors.
(2) The longest cord in the breakout assembly does not exceed 6.0 m (20 ft).
(3) The breakout assembly is protected from physical damage by attachment over its entire length to a pipe, truss, tower, scaffold, or other substantial support structure.
(4) All branch circuits feeding the breakout assembly are protected by overcurrent devices rated at not over 20 amperes.
(B) Conductor Ampacity. The ampacity of conductors shall be as given in 400.5, except multiconductor, listed, extra-hard usage portable cords that are not in direct contact with equipment containing heat-producing elements shall be permitted to have their ampacity determined by Table 520.44. Maximum load current in any conductor with an ampacity determined by Table 520.44 shall not exceed the values in Table 520.44.
Exception: Where alternate conductors are allowed in 520.68(A)(3), their ampacity shall be as given in the appropriate table in this Code for the types of conductors employed.
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: frank kayser on June 14, 2016, 05:53:32 pm




Mike,
In no way I read the code (pasted below) do I see where SJOOW cable can be used on the ground i.e., stage stringers.
Also, it would seem to me that having an inventory containing SJOOW and SOOW would create a whole new set of problems for fairly minimal cost and/or weight reductions.
frank



I finally got to speak to someone at Neutrik about this SJOOW vs SOOW question, and he directed me to 520.68 of the NEC. I've pasted it below in blue. According to my phone discussion, there was a change in the code allowing the use of 12-gauge SJOOW for our portable stage applications, but that's not how I'm interpreting the code.  A cursory reading suggests that SOOW (hard service) insulation would be required rather than SJOOW (Junior Service). And they did confirm that the True1 won't accept 12 Gauge SOOW but will accept the thinner SJOOW cable.

Perhaps it's how SOOW vs. SJOOW service ratings are being interpreted. Since SJOOW is rated for 300 volts and SOOW is rated for 600 volts, for our 120-volt distro the SJOOW is certainly within voltage specs. Maybe the answer lies in UL-1573 which discusses service ratings of cable for theater. See http://ulstandards.ul.com/standard/?id=1573 (http://ulstandards.ul.com/standard/?id=1573)

 520.68 Conductors for Portables .68 Conductors for Portables.
(A) Conductor Type Conductor Type.
(1) General. Flexible conductors, including cable extensions, used to supply portable stage equipment shall be listed extra-hard usage cords or cables.
(2) Stand Lamps. Listed, hard usage cord shall be permitted to supply stand lamps where the cord is not subject to physical damage and is protected by an overcurrent device rated at not over 20 amperes.
(3) High-Temperature Applications. A special assembly of conductors in sleeving not longer than 1.0 m (3.3 ft) shall be permitted to be employed in lieu of flexible cord if the individual wires are stranded and rated not less than 125C (257F) and the outer sleeve is glass fiber with a wall thickness of at least 0.635 mm (0.025 in.).
Portable stage equipment requiring flexible supply conductors with a higher temperature rating where one end is permanently attached to the equipment shall be permitted to employ alternate, suitable conductors as determined by a qualified testing laboratory and recognized test standards.
(4) Breakouts. Listed, hard usage (junior hard service) cords shall be permitted in breakout assemblies where all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The cords are utilized to connect between a single multipole connector containing two or more branch circuits and multiple 2-pole, 3-wire connectors.
(2) The longest cord in the breakout assembly does not exceed 6.0 m (20 ft).
(3) The breakout assembly is protected from physical damage by attachment over its entire length to a pipe, truss, tower, scaffold, or other substantial support structure.
(4) All branch circuits feeding the breakout assembly are protected by overcurrent devices rated at not over 20 amperes.
(B) Conductor Ampacity. The ampacity of conductors shall be as given in 400.5, except multiconductor, listed, extra-hard usage portable cords that are not in direct contact with equipment containing heat-producing elements shall be permitted to have their ampacity determined by Table 520.44. Maximum load current in any conductor with an ampacity determined by Table 520.44 shall not exceed the values in Table 520.44.
Exception: Where alternate conductors are allowed in 520.68(A)(3), their ampacity shall be as given in the appropriate table in this Code for the types of conductors employed.

Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Erik Jerde on June 15, 2016, 01:59:46 am
Even if Neutrik is correct on this one (which based on the code citation you posted I don't think it is) I still think it's a bonehead move to deploy a product like this into a market where it's incompatible with the standard operating procedures of that market.  It leads to discussions like this where experienced and influential users identify the failing and then recommend against using the product.
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Cailen Waddell on June 15, 2016, 08:06:19 am
I suppose the argument could be made that the power from one of my breakouts, that is SJ and daisy chains through several LED units, with the length not exceeding more than 20' is part of the breakout but I'd call bullshit on that in a second. 

That said I have never seen an AHJ challenge SJ...  We have about 2000' of powercon jumpers that are SJ as well as most of our extension cords, breakouts, etc....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Mike Sokol on June 15, 2016, 09:52:29 am
Even if Neutrik is correct on this one (which based on the code citation you posted I don't think it is) I still think it's a bonehead move to deploy a product like this into a market where it's incompatible with the standard operating procedures of that market.  It leads to discussions like this where experienced and influential users identify the failing and then recommend against using the product.
I've asked Neutrik to send me some True1 connectors to experiment with. I don't know if there's a workaround, but who knows?
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: Mike Sokol on June 15, 2016, 09:58:20 am
My Neutrik contact also told me to look at this Control Booth forum thread for a discussion of the NEC revision allowing SJ rated cable under some circumstances. However, I don't think that has anything to do with our typical stage power distribution. https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/new-rules-on-fixture-supply-cords-ul-1573.34464/#post-299512

Comments?
Title: Re: Neutrik True1
Post by: frank kayser on June 15, 2016, 07:12:05 pm
My Neutrik contact also told me to look at this Control Booth forum thread for a discussion of the NEC revision allowing SJ rated cable under some circumstances. However, I don't think that has anything to do with our typical stage power distribution. https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/new-rules-on-fixture-supply-cords-ul-1573.34464/#post-299512 (https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/new-rules-on-fixture-supply-cords-ul-1573.34464/#post-299512)

Comments?


Quote from the Control Booth website: (emphasis mine)
"This revision allows Hard Usage cord (type SJO and derivatives) as luminaire supply cords 1m or less in length. This does not apply to jumpers, only to the cords that are permanently attached to the fixture or those that terminate in an "appliance connector" that mates with a panel-mount inlet on the fixture such as a PowerCon."

I believe the horse is dead, and the beatings should cease.


frank