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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board => Topic started by: James Hicks on May 19, 2016, 04:57:41 pm

Title: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: James Hicks on May 19, 2016, 04:57:41 pm
My apologies if this is in the wrong sub forum.

IMO a big selling point to the Behringer X32 line is the integrated personal monitor capability. Other than that feature, I prefer the Yamaha TF series. What does Yamaha have (now or in the pipeline) that compares to the Behringer setup?
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: Don Ernst on May 19, 2016, 10:18:57 pm
The X32 has provisions for the P16 Ultranet mixers whereas the Yamaha only has 8 mono and 6 stereo auxes.  The only way you could do anything close, would be to have iPhone apps that control each mix through WiFi.
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: Erik Jerde on May 20, 2016, 10:51:14 am
My apologies if this is in the wrong sub forum.

IMO a big selling point to the Behringer X32 line is the integrated personal monitor capability. Other than that feature, I prefer the Yamaha TF series. What does Yamaha have (now or in the pipeline) that compares to the Behringer setup?

Nothing.  Install the Dante card though and use a 3rd party PM option like livemix and you'll have a far better setup.  Costs more but it's a modern PM system as opposed to rather dated design and feature set of the behringer system.
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: Corey Scogin on May 20, 2016, 11:00:27 am
My apologies if this is in the wrong sub forum.

IMO a big selling point to the Behringer X32 line is the integrated personal monitor capability. Other than that feature, I prefer the Yamaha TF series. What does Yamaha have (now or in the pipeline) that compares to the Behringer setup?

If integrated personal monitoring is a big factor, I'd consider an Allen & Heath system. Their ME personal monitors are excellent and either the Qu or GLD series mixers are very good depending on your needs. The ME monitor mixers can mix up to 40 channels. They automatically pick up the channel names from the console so you only have to name channels in one place.
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: Robert Lofgren on May 20, 2016, 03:40:38 pm
Almost 'integrated' is to use the p16-i on the yamaha to get ultranet :-)
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: Bob Leonard on May 21, 2016, 07:33:01 pm
OP,
Define integrated as it pertains to your question. Most good consoles have various and many methods that can be used for monitor mixes of just about any type.
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: James Hicks on May 22, 2016, 12:27:57 am
OP,
Define integrated as it pertains to your question. Most good consoles have various and many methods that can be used for monitor mixes of just about any type.

Talking about how the Behringer stuff all goes together. The P16Ms with their S32 stagebox, etc. I was wondering if Yamaha had plans to offer a module similar to the P16M.
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: James Hicks on May 22, 2016, 12:30:03 am
Nothing.  Install the Dante card though and use a 3rd party PM option like livemix and you'll have a far better setup.  Costs more but it's a modern PM system as opposed to rather dated design and feature set of the behringer system.

This is likely the solution.
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: Erik Jerde on May 22, 2016, 12:58:16 am
Talking about how the Behringer stuff all goes together. The P16Ms with their S32 stagebox, etc. I was wondering if Yamaha had plans to offer a module similar to the P16M.

If Yamaha was going to compete in this space they probably would have already.  Of course I could be wrong, but third party tight integration options have been available for a long time and they haven't moved at that space.  When the M7 came out they ruled the digital church market.  That would have been the perfect time to introduce a product, but they didnt.  I wouldn't hold your breath now.  The PM market is more competitive than it has ever been and Yamaha has enough quality 3rd party options that integrate tightly that they don't need to roll their own as a selling point in the HoW market.
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: Bob Leonard on May 22, 2016, 12:00:47 pm
This is more of a question concerning compatibility. Leaving analog out of the discussion I can think of very few digital boards that won't allow a monitoring "solution" to integrate with the board properly.

The solution may be manufactured by the parent company, or by a third party, however, in the end it's the boards built in or expansion capabilities that determine the ability or extent to which your primary solution can be expanded.

As I had said, many companies offer solution for your needs, and your initial purchase (board) should be made with those expansion capabilities in mind. My choice has been Soundcraft for any number of reasons, and although IEM and personal monitoring was a part of my initial buying decision, it was a small part.

In the end though a quick look at the boards (Performer) expansion capabilities left me knowing that should I need or want to "expand" my solution by "integrating" any number of personal monitoring or IEM solutions it would be a matter of choice, not chance.

Some solutions would be obvious, but keep in mind that you get what you pay for, and good solutions are not cheap. So, are you serious and want a lasting solution, or do you want a cheap solution that might work OK. It's your choice, and a choice that should be made when you purchase your board, the foundation for the house you're building.

Solutions include those from;

Allen and Heath
Aviom
dbx
Digital Audio Labs
Hear Technologies
Roland
etc.

http://dbxpro.com/en-US/products/pmc16



Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: James Hicks on May 22, 2016, 09:47:26 pm
This is more of a question concerning compatibility. Leaving analog out of the discussion I can think of very few digital boards that won't allow a monitoring "solution" to integrate with the board properly.

The solution may be manufactured by the parent company, or by a third party, however, in the end it's the boards built in or expansion capabilities that determine the ability or extent to which your primary solution can be expanded.

As I had said, many companies offer solution for your needs, and your initial purchase (board) should be made with those expansion capabilities in mind. My choice has been Soundcraft for any number of reasons, and although IEM and personal monitoring was a part of my initial buying decision, it was a small part.

In the end though a quick look at the boards (Performer) expansion capabilities left me knowing that should I need or want to "expand" my solution by "integrating" any number of personal monitoring or IEM solutions it would be a matter of choice, not chance.

Some solutions would be obvious, but keep in mind that you get what you pay for, and good solutions are not cheap. So, are you serious and want a lasting solution, or do you want a cheap solution that might work OK. It's your choice, and a choice that should be made when you purchase your board, the foundation for the house you're building.

Solutions include those from;

Allen and Heath
Aviom
dbx
Digital Audio Labs
Hear Technologies
Roland
etc.

http://dbxpro.com/en-US/products/pmc16

I'm typically looking at smaller houses of worship and the bolded part in your quote is more often than not the factor that comes into play, unfortunately.

In the one job we've been involved in with PMs, the customer had already found the Behringer stuff in one of the catalogs and determined that's what they wanted and the budget necessary to get it. It was my first experience with them, and so far it's the only one we've done with the personal monitors. They seemed good enough, but like I said just comparing board to board I think I'd rather push the Yamaha.

Thanks again for all the responses.

Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: Scott Helmke on May 22, 2016, 10:50:48 pm
If Yamaha was going to compete in this space they probably would have already.  Of course I could be wrong, but third party tight integration options have been available for a long time and they haven't moved at that space.  When the M7 came out they ruled the digital church market.  That would have been the perfect time to introduce a product, but they didnt.  I wouldn't hold your breath now.  The PM market is more competitive than it has ever been and Yamaha has enough quality 3rd party options that integrate tightly that they don't need to roll their own as a selling point in the HoW market.

Aviom pretty much owns the church market, and there's a Yamaha MY card to go with their system. And at this point we're probably near market saturation, especially since the Aviom stuff is very reliable.
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: Don Ernst on May 22, 2016, 11:25:07 pm
Aviom pretty much owns the church market, and there's a Yamaha MY card to go with their system. And at this point we're probably near market saturation, especially since the Aviom stuff is very reliable.

There is only one problem with the MY cards and the TF.  They are not compatible with the TF.
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: Rob Spence on May 23, 2016, 12:44:33 pm
There is only one problem with the MY cards and the TF.  They are not compatible with the TF.

I would not expect Aviom to leave it that way.

MY cards are of the past. All the new desks have slots for newer cards.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Yamaha TF series vs Behringer X32- personal monitoring solution
Post by: Scott Helmke on May 23, 2016, 04:50:07 pm
There is only one problem with the MY cards and the TF.  They are not compatible with the TF.

True. But the TF does support up to ten remote mixing apps from iPhones, Androids, etc. So for that market you don't need to buy much extra hardware to get roughly the same functionality.