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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Andy Lancaster on May 02, 2016, 02:52:05 pm

Title: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Andy Lancaster on May 02, 2016, 02:52:05 pm
I currently have two Bose L1 Model II, each with one B2 bass module. Each sub has two 10" drivers. The system sounds really great for the most part. My only problem comes when I have big 'teen' parties with lots of electronic music/bass heavy content. The L1 can handle it just fine, but you don't get that 'thumping' feeling in your chest.

I was thinking about picking up a used Yorkville Unity UCS1, paired with a Behringer iNuke NU3000 amplifier. Would it be worth it? I'm a little worried about going with Behringer, as I know they have a less than stellar reputation.

I've read a bunch of reviews here about the merits of the UCS1, but none about 'mixing' them with other subs. I'd be running the L1's with a single UCS1 for additional low end reinforcement. Would this be worth it, or should I just add more Bose B2s. Thanks for your input.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on May 02, 2016, 04:32:45 pm
Mixing subs is a bad idea. It's a recipe for comb filtering.

You don't say how many people you are trying to cover, how big of an area, or what SPL level you are trying to achieve.

You would probably be better off getting a whole new PA system if you want to do EDM type shows. The Bose sticks aren't well regarded in the professional audio world.
Title: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Scott Carneval on May 02, 2016, 05:26:40 pm
I definitely would NOT attempt to do an EDM show or a teen dance with a Bose L1. They're acceptable for coffee shops, weddings and corporate gigs but that's about it.

But if you MUST use it, i'd suggest a JBL SRX828p sub, and route the signal from your mixer to the sub, and then from the sub to the L1, so the L1 gets a high pass filter. This way the little B2 subs don't have to work as hard. They're still needed as they handle frequencies up to about 300hz.

There are better subs on the market, but not at $1999.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Robert Piascik on May 02, 2016, 06:47:03 pm

I'm a little worried about going with Behringer, as I know they have a less than stellar reputation.


...says the guy who's trying to make his BOSE system sound better.

Sorry, I know it's snarky but I just couldn't resist.
I have nothing positive to add to this thread.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Andy Lancaster on May 02, 2016, 10:02:56 pm
...says the guy who's trying to make his BOSE system sound better.

Sorry, I know it's snarky but I just couldn't resist.
I have nothing positive to add to this thread.

What a warm welcome to the LAB forums...

Thanks for the advice.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Andy Lancaster on May 02, 2016, 10:08:52 pm
I guess I should've clarified a little more. I typically don't have a need for more bass, but in some instances I really just need something to thump (I'd rather higher SPL than accuracy in this instance). That being said, the L1's are definitely no slouch.

I recently had an outdoor ~500 person event, and I found that I was really pushing the subs. This was with mostly rap/dance music, so I wasn't too surprised. I suppose adding more subs would just cause room nodes and cancellation.

I think I'll be heading to the Bose forums. Thank you all for the advice.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on May 02, 2016, 10:10:47 pm
What a warm welcome to the LAB forums...

Thanks for the advice.

Andy...

You won't find much love for Bose here, that's a fact.  There are many acronyms and rhymes on the subject, but I'll offer yet another:

Those who knows don't use Bose.

Sorry.

Edit:

For your stated purpose the sad fact is that pretty much ALL the L1 type systems will come up short of accepted standards regardless of manufacturer.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Andy Lancaster on May 02, 2016, 11:22:18 pm
I understand that not many people in professional circles like the Bose system, but I didn't expect such a disheartening discussion. Thank you for the input though.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Chuck Simon on May 02, 2016, 11:27:20 pm
I played in a band that used the L1s, one per side, each on a JBL PRX618S-XLf and they sounded really good.  We got a lot of positive comments about the quality of the sound. Best choice?  Probably not, but it worked.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: David Buckley on May 02, 2016, 11:35:30 pm
Get the sub and the iNuke, add a Behringer DCX2496, and don't bother plugging in the B10s.  For a "teen dance party", it should be fine.  If you want to live on the bleeding edge, you could keep the B10s and run effectively a three way system with low bass on the Yorkville, mid bass on the B10s, and L1s.

But... You'll get damned little respect hereabouts, Bose is hated by most sound professionals, and many regard everything Behringer make as utter junk, though now they have three year warranty and the digital products are actually not bad in absolute terms and very good at their price point, the hate is diminishing a bit.  So a Bose/Behringer rig won't get much love from the pros, even though in context it'll be just fine.

Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: John Chiara on May 03, 2016, 12:15:15 am
Get the sub and the iNuke, add a Behringer DCX2496, and don't bother plugging in the B10s.  For a "teen dance party", it should be fine.  If you want to live on the bleeding edge, you could keep the B10s and run effectively a three way system with low bass on the Yorkville, mid bass on the B10s, and L1s.

But... You'll get damned little respect hereabouts, Bose is hated by most sound professionals, and many regard everything Behringer make as utter junk, though now they have three year warranty and the digital products are actually not bad in absolute terms and very good at their price point, the hate is diminishing a bit.  So a Bose/Behringer rig won't get much love from the pros, even though in context it'll be just fine.

Id get a sub and a Crest Prolite DSP amp with Maxxbass.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Robert Lunceford on May 03, 2016, 01:28:46 am
The Bose sticks aren't well regarded in the professional audio world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sibKEEBlfWs
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on May 03, 2016, 01:53:43 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sibKEEBlfWs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sibKEEBlfWs)


Oh look, it's an acoustic set for a has been band in a coffee shop with 12 people staged in front of the camera for a manufacturer's promo.   ::)
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: John Rutirasiri on May 03, 2016, 02:22:35 am
Be fair folks, they do have their place!  These are my "looks first, who cares about the sound" Lincoln Park (Chicago) speakers for the wealthy who throw cocktail parties but want their million dollar homes to be seen, not bulky loudspeakers.

There's actually a sound company in the Chicago burbs that only stock Bose and do quite well with them.

But getting back to the OP: those L1's are too delicate for dance music with 500 people.  I would invest in a pair of decent 12" or 15" 2-way powered speakers over subs (QSC, JBL, Yamaha, Alto...) and keep the Bose for corporate gigs and house warming parties.  They are expensive...you don't want to overstress them and crack the plastic.

John R.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on May 03, 2016, 07:30:13 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sibKEEBlfWs

A fine example of completely superfluous technology.

I once attended a Jorma Kaukonen "unplugged" concert at "the" local theater.  Their multi-million dollar sound system (1200 capacity room) sounded so bad as to be unlistenable for 90% of the seats.

The only good seats were the last row under the balcony overhang where the sound from the sophisticated line array was occluded but there was still direct, unamplified sound from the thrust stage.

The "coffeehouse" video made me think again of playing to hundreds of people on the street with all the attendant ambient racket.  No tech needed, Bose or otherwise.  Even a string quartet completely un-amplified can drive you out of the typical coffeehouse setting if they want to kick it.

We have (and have had) fine tech and wonderful electric instruments, but it has never made the music better, only louder. 

If you can't play without the tech, nothing suffices.

Hrrrumpphhh.

Edit:


I forgot that this thread started with DJ'ing and has nothing to do with music...
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Ned Ward on May 03, 2016, 04:46:55 pm
Andy - welcome to the forums, and stick around, as you will learn things.

As you're finding out, doing deep bass is hard for many of the L1 type speakers, both from Bose and the other similar competitor items. It's still hard to do with powered 1x12 speakers. A real sub should help, and if there's a way you can "try before you buy" this used sub and power amp, that may be worth it.

Even doing a 1 day rental could be money well spent if you find that the sub helps. What you may also find is that while your L1 system can work fine in some situations, it won't work everywhere. If you find that you're doing more of these teen parties with lots of low end, you may want to consider either getting a second system, or selling the Bose and moving to a 1x12 powered box over subs. You can start with 1 sub, and add another when you need more low end.

I started on these boards asking how I could improve the sound of my then JBL JRX115 speakers. I think some of the better responses included setting them on fire, leaving them out on the curb, or to be truly cruel, donating them to charity... I'm glad I stayed. And that the JRX115's are gone.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Scott Carneval on May 03, 2016, 05:40:01 pm

I started on these boards asking how I could improve the sound of my then JBL JRX115 speakers. I think some of the better responses included setting them on fire, leaving them out on the curb, or to be truly cruel, donating them to charity... I'm glad I stayed. And that the JRX115's are gone.

I recently met a new client to discuss replacing the JRX system installed at their wedding venue. She asked what she could do with the old speakers once we took them down. My advice was to set them in a pile on the adjacent train tracks and wait for the next freight train. She buckled over in laughter and bought the new system.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Robert Lunceford on May 03, 2016, 06:45:54 pm

Oh look, it's an acoustic set for a has been band in a coffee shop with 12 people staged in front of the camera for a manufacturer's promo.   ::)

Two Bose L1 systems on this stage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V7JKYaYeuM
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Scott Holtzman on May 03, 2016, 07:16:42 pm
Two Bose L1 systems on this stage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V7JKYaYeuM

God Steve sound awful, sounds like he is straining to have a bowel movement.

Yeah, some people like you use that as monitors.  Usually old deaf rockers that don't give a shit about stage level. 

Certainly not germane to this conversation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyWVPHoFGJA

Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Mike Sullivan on May 04, 2016, 06:58:39 am
I understand that not many people in professional circles like the Bose system, but I didn't expect such a disheartening discussion. Thank you for the input though.

Just in case you decide to come back, man the f*** up. There is nothing disheartening about telling you that you have the wrong tool for the job. As others have said, Bose has its place. Small three piece bands in coffeeshops with limited space and thats about it. Two 10's are not designed for chest thumping bass, and neither are the top modules. You need a large sub setup and a better top setup (something with more clarity and throw across all ranges)

Or better yet. Don't do the gig. Its not your forte. You wouldnt do a town festival with a Bose rig, right? No. Its not suited for that. You would either rent or subcontract a small trap rig or line array, whichever is better suited for the purpose.

Regardless of the dislike for Bose around here we tried to help you. The fellas on the Bose forum will probably say the same thing. Unless you have a bottomless wallet to dish out and purchase multiple sub modules. Even then its not the right tool for the job.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Robert Lunceford on May 04, 2016, 08:23:19 pm

Oh look, it's an acoustic set for a has been band in a coffee shop with 12 people staged in front of the camera for a manufacturer's promo.   ::)

Larger venue and larger system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qII70mGSLqE
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: John Rutirasiri on May 04, 2016, 10:45:32 pm
BTW anyone heard their F1?
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Robert Piascik on May 05, 2016, 07:39:10 am
Larger venue and larger system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qII70mGSLqE

Are you convinced by this commercial that the Bose system is the best? Every manufacturer can trot out a similar marketing piece with testimonials by paid endorsers who claim their product is the best. How do you discern between anything when everybody claims theirs is the best? Sheesh....

Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Cailen Waddell on May 05, 2016, 10:20:26 am
Are you convinced by this commercial that the Bose system is the best? Every manufacturer can trot out a similar marketing piece with testimonials by paid endorsers who claim their product is the best. How do you discern between anything when everybody claims theirs is the best? Sheesh....

Perhaps I am missing your sarcasm,

But I'd start discerning what's best by ignoring anything the marketing department has created....

Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 05, 2016, 12:37:50 pm
Larger venue and larger system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qII70mGSLqE

We just did a show with them and Phil Carson (about 0:13 in the video) was highly complementary of our non-Bose rig, deployment, and crew.  Brian had a good mix, too and that helps *every* system shine. ;)

I found out because Phil mentioned his satisfaction to the promoter and venue management.  I don't think we do anything extraordinary in designing and deploying our systems so leads me to think that entertainers at all levels experience one off gigs where little or no thought is given to Today's Act in Today's VenueŽ.  I had a brief conversation with the "system guy" doing an arena show where the vertical coverage was FUBAR.  I asked how he arrived at the trim height and inter-box angles and his reply was "this is the way we always do it."  I heard the same rig outdoors a week later.  Again, covering the audience didn't seem to be a priority.  "We always do it this way".  How the BEs didn't make them fix it, I'll never know.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: David Buckley on May 05, 2016, 04:57:19 pm
Again, covering the audience didn't seem to be a priority.  "We always do it this way".  How the BEs didn't make them fix it, I'll never know.
Perhaps the BE didn't notice.  Yeah, really.  Or did notice and just didn't care.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: John L Nobile on May 05, 2016, 05:12:35 pm
Perhaps the BE didn't notice.  Yeah, really.  Or did notice and just didn't care.

Or thought he could fix it with EQ
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Tim McCulloch on May 05, 2016, 07:26:57 pm
Perhaps the BE didn't notice.  Yeah, really.  Or did notice and just didn't care.

Or he realized that trying to get things fixed would go nowhere.
Title: Re: Recommendations on adding to Bose L1 II
Post by: Ivan Beaver on May 05, 2016, 07:42:13 pm
  I had a brief conversation with the "system guy" doing an arena show where the vertical coverage was FUBAR.  I asked how he arrived at the trim height and inter-box angles and his reply was "this is the way we always do it."  I heard the same rig outdoors a week later.  Again, covering the audience didn't seem to be a priority.  "We always do it this way".  How the BEs didn't make them fix it, I'll never know.
Or it could be that the BEs are so used to FUBAR systems, they think it is "normal"?

I have meet quite a few BEs that couldn't get out of a paper bag-much less mix a band. So I am sure many can't tell the difference.