ProSoundWeb Community

Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => DJ Forum => Topic started by: Tamar Ghobria on December 13, 2015, 09:06:24 pm

Title: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Tamar Ghobria on December 13, 2015, 09:06:24 pm
I see the rave reviews but its mostly from Bands...Would love to know how these hold up with heavy EDM Style music....I had the Danley Sm 96 over TH 118 combo and I had an issue where the tops would go into a protect mode and temporarily cut the output down....SM 96 has a higher spl and should cut the room more but would love to hear feedback
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Scott Carneval on December 13, 2015, 09:23:05 pm
I see the rave reviews but its mostly from Bands...Would love to know how these hold up with heavy EDM Style music....I had the Danley Sm 96 over TH 118 combo and I had an issue where the tops would go into a protect mode and temporarily cut the output down....SM 96 has a higher spl and should cut the room more but would love to hear feedback

What size rooms are you trying to cover? How many people? Are you currently using one TH118 per side? And are you happy with that output? Because the SM80 will easily outrun a single TH118. You would need 2-3 TH118 per side to keep up with a SM80, at least for EDM and/or Hip-Hop.

I don't really subscribe to the 'this speaker is better for this type of music than that speaker' notion. If a speaker is relatively flat and reasonably accurate in response it should sound good no matter what you're using it for.  And yes I have used the SM80 for EDM, and it sounds great.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Tamar Ghobria on December 13, 2015, 09:49:57 pm
What size rooms are you trying to cover? How many people? Are you currently using one TH118 per side? And are you happy with that output? Because the SM80 will easily outrun a single TH118. You would need 2-3 TH118 per side to keep up with a SM80, at least for EDM and/or Hip-Hop.

I don't really subscribe to the 'this speaker is better for this type of music than that speaker' notion. If a speaker is relatively flat and reasonably accurate in response it should sound good no matter what you're using it for.  And yes I have used the SM80 for EDM, and it sounds great.

Rooms vary in size but I provide sound a for a lot of djs where its never enough for them....I was running one th-118 per side with the 96's....mostly edm style music...I work in different rooms...varying number of people....biggest would probably be 1500
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Robert Piascik on December 13, 2015, 10:39:29 pm
I agree with Scott above. I have SM80 over TH118 set up and while I don't provide much for EDM type events if I need a big sound I use 2-3 subs per top. 2 tops and 6 subs powered with IT8k would fill up a pretty good sized room. I think the problem is not SM96 vs. SM80 it's not enough sub to balance.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Steve M Smith on December 14, 2015, 04:40:08 am
I provide sound a for a lot of djs where its never enough for them....
Never enough for them is usually more than enough for everyone else in the room.


Steve.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Tim McCulloch on December 14, 2015, 01:25:01 pm
Never enough for them is usually more than enough for everyone else in the room.


Steve.

+100
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Tamar Ghobria on December 14, 2015, 03:49:08 pm
I see the rave reviews but its mostly from Bands...Would love to know how these hold up with heavy EDM Style music....I had the Danley Sm 96 over TH 118 combo and I had an issue where the tops would go into a protect mode and temporarily cut the output down....SM 96 has a higher spl and should cut the room more but would love to hear feedback

sorry typo...sm 80 has a higher spl
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Doug Fowler on December 14, 2015, 04:04:04 pm
sorry typo...sm 80 has a higher spl

2x TH-118 + SM80 per side for EDM = a few hundred people, depending, from experience.  And sound fantastic, of course.  Be aware SM80 has very limited LF, so proper xover setup is crucial. 
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Keith Broughton on December 14, 2015, 05:03:15 pm
I am curious about the SM96 vs SM 80 as well.
Heard a rig with 2xSM80 over 6 TH118s and it sounded spectacular.
Installed 20 OS80s in an arena and it sounded great.
However, it seems to me the SM96, while a couple of db down, has better low freq. response and might have better low freq. pattern control.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 14, 2015, 05:12:45 pm
Here is a bad video of 2 SM80s and 2 subs (BC218) outsde about 100' away.

You can read some of the numbers in the comments

https://www.facebook.com/ivan.beaver/videos/vb.100000581642030/1070611356301576/?type=2&theater
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 14, 2015, 06:08:23 pm
I am curious about the SM96 vs SM 80 as well.
Heard a rig with 2xSM80 over 6 TH118s and it sounded spectacular.
Installed 20 OS80s in an arena and it sounded great.
However, it seems to me the SM96, while a couple of db down, has better low freq. response and might have better low freq. pattern control.
This is where the "simple numbers" can get you in trouble.

In reality, the SM80 can get quite a bit louder than the SM96

Yes the SM96 has a wider freq response.  It is meant to be able to be used as a stand alone full range speaker-while the SM80 was intended to be used with subs.

In regards to the pattern control, the correct answer is that is both better and worse with the SM96 (over the SM80)

In the horizontal it is better-because the pattern is wider and the physical size of the horn is larger.

But in the vertical it is worse (meaning not going as low) because the pattern is narrower AND the physical size is smaller.

So once again-It depends
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: John L Nobile on December 14, 2015, 07:08:54 pm
With the SM80s I have to run my sub xover a little higher than I like. The sm96s would let me run the subs a little lower but that would probably mean less spl to the tops.
It's a matter of useage. Do you need more spl or more bottom range?
I chose spl and am very happy with the results. The largest audience I've done with SM80s is 400 in a large room. Still had headroom and actually had complaints about the volume.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Scott Carneval on December 14, 2015, 08:27:59 pm
Here's a video of an install we just did this afternoon. It's just a single OS80 (basically a weatherized version of the SM80) behind home plate at a high school baseball stadium.

https://www.facebook.com/AvantSI/videos/1100936999917141/?notif_t=like

The system was roughly 2/3 of the way up, and I start out about 250' out and walk to maybe 350' out. As I get closer to the fence you can hear the reflections off the fence itself, the portable classrooms, and the scoreboard all start to get pretty nasty. I didn't realize it at the time, but I'm cupping the mic of the phone a little bit. This is before any EQ as it was raining and I didn't want to set up my measurement rig. We'll head back later this week to align the system and take some db readings.



Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Tamar Ghobria on December 15, 2015, 06:17:31 am
This is where the "simple numbers" can get you in trouble.

In reality, the SM80 can get quite a bit louder than the SM96

Yes the SM96 has a wider freq response.  It is meant to be able to be used as a stand alone full range speaker-while the SM80 was intended to be used with subs.

In regards to the pattern control, the correct answer is that is both better and worse with the SM96 (over the SM80)

In the horizontal it is better-because the pattern is wider and the physical size of the horn is larger.

But in the vertical it is worse (meaning not going as low) because the pattern is narrower AND the physical size is smaller.

So once again-It depends


Ivan are the SM 80  and TH 118's currently in stock or still made to order?
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Tamar Ghobria on December 15, 2015, 06:23:32 am
With the SM80s I have to run my sub xover a little higher than I like. The sm96s would let me run the subs a little lower but that would probably mean less spl to the tops.
It's a matter of useage. Do you need more spl or more bottom range?
I chose spl and am very happy with the results. The largest audience I've done with SM80s is 400 in a large room. Still had headroom and actually had complaints about the volume.

John what kind of amps are you using?
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 15, 2015, 07:22:50 am

Ivan are the SM 80  and TH 118's currently in stock or still made to order?
Like most Danley products they are made to order.

We do plan on having the plastic boxes in stock for the normal colors/configurations.  So those will be very short delivery times.

The times varies depending on current production schedules.  I "think" 2-3 weeks is standard.  Sometimes a little less-sometimes a little more.
But when an order is placed, the office can tell you what the time line is.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: John L Nobile on December 15, 2015, 08:46:08 am
John what kind of amps are you using?

I use my LG fp10000qs for the SM80s and DBH218's. That's my portable system. Those amps normally power SH96HO's.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: John L Nobile on December 15, 2015, 09:14:21 am
Here's a video of an install we just did this afternoon. It's just a single OS80 (basically a weatherized version of the SM80) behind home plate at a high school baseball stadium.

https://www.facebook.com/AvantSI/videos/1100936999917141/?notif_t=like

The system was roughly 2/3 of the way up, and I start out about 250' out and walk to maybe 350' out. As I get closer to the fence you can hear the reflections off the fence itself, the portable classrooms, and the scoreboard all start to get pretty nasty. I didn't realize it at the time, but I'm cupping the mic of the phone a little bit. This is before any EQ as it was raining and I didn't want to set up my measurement rig. We'll head back later this week to align the system and take some db readings.

Watched the clip. Very impressive. I'd say mission accomplished!
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Keith Broughton on December 15, 2015, 10:35:47 am
Here's a video of an install we just did this afternoon. It's just a single OS80 (basically a weatherized version of the SM80) behind home plate at a high school baseball stadium.

https://www.facebook.com/AvantSI/videos/1100936999917141/?notif_t=like

The system was roughly 2/3 of the way up, and I start out about 250' out and walk to maybe 350' out. As I get closer to the fence you can hear the reflections off the fence itself, the portable classrooms, and the scoreboard all start to get pretty nasty. I didn't realize it at the time, but I'm cupping the mic of the phone a little bit. This is before any EQ as it was raining and I didn't want to set up my measurement rig. We'll head back later this week to align the system and take some db readings.
Went down to Ohio last summer to hear some SM80s outdoors...2 SM80 over 6 TH118.
The most interesting thing, other than the quality of the sound, is that when out about 200',  you close your eyes the sound seems much closer than it actually is.
I attribute this to the cohesiveness of the spectrum distribution.
I really need to get a pair!
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Tamar Ghobria on December 15, 2015, 10:52:04 am
This is where the "simple numbers" can get you in trouble.

In reality, the SM80 can get quite a bit louder than the SM96

Yes the SM96 has a wider freq response.  It is meant to be able to be used as a stand alone full range speaker-while the SM80 was intended to be used with subs.

In regards to the pattern control, the correct answer is that is both better and worse with the SM96 (over the SM80)

In the horizontal it is better-because the pattern is wider and the physical size of the horn is larger.

But in the vertical it is worse (meaning not going as low) because the pattern is narrower AND the physical size is smaller.

So once again-It depends



is their a way to create an SM 80 without such a wide dispersion...I would love to be able to keep my sound limited to the dance floor
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 15, 2015, 10:59:22 am
Went down to Ohio last summer to hear some SM80s outdoors...2 SM80 over 6 TH118.
The most interesting thing, other than the quality of the sound, is that when out about 200',  you close your eyes the sound seems much closer than it actually is.
I attribute this to the cohesiveness of the spectrum distribution.
I really need to get a pair!
Part of the miracle of our hearing system is that the brain can detect very small differences in arrival in a sound source.

So an easy test is to close your eyes for a little bit, and listen.  If you can tell how far a loudspeaker is away (within reason), then there is some "distortion" of the signal coming out of it.

And by distortion-I am not talking about harmonic distortion, but rather that the sound coming out is not true to the original signal.

Yes all loudspeakers have all sorts of "distortions", that is why they are BY FAR the worst offenders in the whole signal chain in terms of passing a signal unaltered-even the very best ones are FAR worse than any electronics driving them.  Mics are next in line.  Then it drops down real far to the various electronics.

The better behaved the signal is, the more it will hold together over distance and the harder it is to tell how far away it is.

Another way to tell how well the signal is holding together, is to listen to how it behaves in the wind.

If it is blowing around (being subject to temperature variants), then it is not as well behaved as one that is more immune to the wind.

So a speaker that sounds good at a long distance with the wind blowing, is going to sound very good indoors and closer-because it is better behaved.

Especially outdoors, it is important to have as FEW of sources of sound as possible, to help the sound "hold together" at a distance.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: John L Nobile on December 15, 2015, 11:02:19 am
is their a way to create an SM 80 without such a wide dispersion...I would love to be able to keep my sound limited to the dance floor


80 degrees doesn't sound that wide for the horizontal and you can angle them in to keep the sound off the walls. It's wide for the vertical if they're pointed straight. But I really believe that all speakers should flown and aimed down for the best results. That would solve the vertical dispersion issue for me.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 15, 2015, 11:07:53 am
is their a way to create an SM 80 without such a wide dispersion...I would love to be able to keep my sound limited to the dance floor
But part of having the mid/high limited in coverage is that off axis the bass would be a lot louder -and the balance would be "off"

Not in the current horn.  If we were to simply "narrow the horn angle", yes it would get narrower-but there would be all sorts of interaction going on that would really mess up the sound quality.

We have discussed the possibility of using a horn like on the SM60 on the driver used in the SM80.  The problem is the physical distances and getting a good alignment between the woofer and HF.

Basically the woofer is to large.

We also have to start to control the HF before it gets to wide (the natural 80* dispersion)

But it is "on the list" to look into a bit more and see what we can come up with.

Personally I would love to have a 60 and 40* version that used the "motor" of the SM80.

It could be very helpful in stadium situations.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Keith Broughton on December 15, 2015, 11:30:20 am
The compromise is never ending, right Ivan?  :)
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 16, 2015, 07:40:51 am
The compromise is never ending, right Ivan?  :)
Well there is compromise in trying to do it right.

And then there is "doing something" and giving it a number and hoping people will believe it (typical).

After all-how many actually believe that their "rotatable horns" are actually doing much to the sound?

LOTS.  But in reality-the ONLY thing that is being affected is the top 2 octaves or so-NOT down where they would "like" it to be happening.

But people keep on buying them and just "believing" without actually testing-or measuring or checking.

On a side note-we had a demo yesterday that I was impressed with the client.

They wanted to hear pink noise and actually WALK the pattern to hear where it was cutting off and see how consistent the pattern was.

THat is VERY RARE  Most people just like to listen on axis and talk about the tonality (to much highs-not enough midbass etc), you know things that are a personal thing anc can easily be corrected by eq, rather that evaluating the REAL aspects-such as coverage- evenness, distortion and so forth, things that are NOT corrected by eq.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Scott Carneval on December 16, 2015, 11:28:07 am
Watched the clip. Very impressive. I'd say mission accomplished!

Thanks John! One of my installers has a friend who lives near the school. She knew he was there working that day, and called him and said she could hear the music from her house. Apparently she can usually hear the marching band, but this was even louder.

I looked her address up on Google Maps and she's about a mile away, through a bunch of trees and other neighborhoods.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Keith Broughton on December 16, 2015, 11:28:12 am
Well there is compromise in trying to do it right.

And then there is "doing something" and giving it a number and hoping people will believe it (typical).

After all-how many actually believe that their "rotatable horns" are actually doing much to the sound?

LOTS.  But in reality-the ONLY thing that is being affected is the top 2 octaves or so-NOT down where they would "like" it to be happening.

But people keep on buying them and just "believing" without actually testing-or measuring or checking.

On a side note-we had a demo yesterday that I was impressed with the client.

They wanted to hear pink noise and actually WALK the pattern to hear where it was cutting off and see how consistent the pattern was.

THat is VERY RARE  Most people just like to listen on axis and talk about the tonality (to much highs-not enough midbass etc), you know things that are a personal thing anc can easily be corrected by eq, rather that evaluating the REAL aspects-such as coverage- evenness, distortion and so forth, things that are NOT corrected by eq.
Another interesting test is to "splay" a pair and listen to how the speakers interact.
I did find , at least with the SM80s, that interaction was much better behaved than with conventional 2 way cabs.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Doug Fowler on December 16, 2015, 12:00:35 pm
Well there is compromise in trying to do it right.

And then there is "doing something" and giving it a number and hoping people will believe it (typical).

After all-how many actually believe that their "rotatable horns" are actually doing much to the sound?

LOTS.  But in reality-the ONLY thing that is being affected is the top 2 octaves or so-NOT down where they would "like" it to be happening.

But people keep on buying them and just "believing" without actually testing-or measuring or checking.

On a side note-we had a demo yesterday that I was impressed with the client.

They wanted to hear pink noise and actually WALK the pattern to hear where it was cutting off and see how consistent the pattern was.

THat is VERY RARE  Most people just like to listen on axis and talk about the tonality (to much highs-not enough midbass etc), you know things that are a personal thing anc can easily be corrected by eq, rather that evaluating the REAL aspects-such as coverage- evenness, distortion and so forth, things that are NOT corrected by eq.

I try to teach the value of using noise for all sorts of things.  Once you get accustomed to what noise sounds like on a properly equalized system you can get hints of what's wrong.  And, nothing beats noise for hearing alignment problems, or as Ivan says listening off-axis.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Craig Leerman on December 31, 2015, 02:22:02 am
After all-how many actually believe that their "rotatable horns" are actually doing much to the sound?

The "rotatable horns" in my Leslie  are doing a lot for the sound of my C3. I never lay the Leslie on its side though.  :D


Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on December 31, 2015, 06:48:00 am
The "rotatable horns" in my Leslie  are doing a lot for the sound of my C3. I never lay the Leslie on its side though.  :D

And they are variable (to an extent)-at least in speed------
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Ara Ayrassian on January 07, 2016, 02:40:07 pm

And they are variable (to an extent)-at least in speed------

I am wondering about the SM80 for DJ use I always like the slam that horn loaded cabinets hit in the 100Hz-160Hz range this is why I like the SPL td-1's and DBH218's set up I have or the SH96HO's depending on the venue size.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: John L Nobile on January 07, 2016, 03:39:13 pm
I am wondering about the SM80 for DJ use I always like the slam that horn loaded cabinets hit in the 100Hz-160Hz range this is why I like the SPL td-1's and DBH218's set up I have or the SH96HO's depending on the venue size.

Don't think you'll get that slam as SM80's roll off at 160 hz.
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Tamar Ghobria on January 08, 2016, 05:43:43 am
I ended up getting the SM 80 over 118.....Now looking for the right amp....Leaning towards Powersoft or Lab Gruppen....Also considering the QSC PLD....I am hoping to find something where I can set how much power I am pulling from the wall....I know the Powersoft has that feature
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Doug Fowler on January 08, 2016, 11:59:08 am
I ended up getting the SM 80 over 118.....Now looking for the right amp....Leaning towards Powersoft or Lab Gruppen....Also considering the QSC PLD....I am hoping to find something where I can set how much power I am pulling from the wall....I know the Powersoft has that feature

Just use a clamp on ammeter when your system is running at its limit.  Keep it simple (and cheaper).
Title: Re: Any djs using Danley SM 80's
Post by: Lance Hallmark on September 27, 2016, 04:42:39 pm
I ended up getting the SM 80 over 118.....Now looking for the right amp....Leaning towards Powersoft or Lab Gruppen....Also considering the QSC PLD....I am hoping to find something where I can set how much power I am pulling from the wall....I know the Powersoft has that feature

I ended up going with a JTR rig, 2 Noesis 3TX (4ohm) over 2 Orbit Shifters (2 ohm). Loving it, tops are very loud & clear, the three way config brings out a lot of nuances of the tracks I play. Bass is  awesome, musical. Even at low volumes you can feel the low frequencies throughout the room.
The more I'm reading, it seems that the Danley 20k4 amp is the way to go. Lots of limiting options, including voltage, for protection, plus full DSP optimized for your specific speakers. Pick up a couple of back up amps in case of failure until you can get two of them. Buy once, cry once applies again. I'm going to look into getting one for the system listed above once I've started bringing in some more revenue from the P.A. I'm currently using 2 Crown XTI 6002s, one speaker per channel and would keep them as backup.