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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Debbie Dunkley on October 13, 2015, 09:56:31 am

Title: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 13, 2015, 09:56:31 am
So we picked up the 3RD SRX828p at the weekend. Checked it out real quick and it works.
Went to put the wheels on today and one of the T nuts on the inside of the cabinet has fallen inside. I am seething right now.
I bought this speaker 8/15 and I STILL have not been able to use it.

I just don't know what to do and I am regretting my move to this series from my beloved 700 series...
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Brandon Scopel on October 13, 2015, 10:00:01 am
Oh no, I lucked out with mine from Sweetwater then. First official gig is Friday!

Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Dave Pluke on October 13, 2015, 10:01:14 am
So we picked up the 3RD SRX828p at the weekend. Checked it out real quick and it works.
Went to put the wheels on today and one of the T nuts on the inside of the cabinet has fallen inside. I am seething right now.

I suggest you load up on lottery tickets, Debbie - cuz your luck has GOT to change pretty soon!

Unbelievable string of disappointments.  It would seem JBL needs to do more QC at their current production facilities.

Dave
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 13, 2015, 10:08:38 am
Oh no, I lucked out with mine from Sweetwater then. First official gig is Friday!

Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

Thanks for the gloat Brandon- I really need that about now !!
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Steve Oldridge on October 13, 2015, 10:16:50 am
So we picked up the 3RD SRX828p at the weekend. Checked it out real quick and it works.
Went to put the wheels on today and one of the T nuts on the inside of the cabinet has fallen inside. I am seething right now.
Deb, any chance you can "pop off" the amp cover and fish around for it?   I been in similar situation.. had an old community sub (CPL55?) that was designed for installation, had ports and I was converting to speakon connectors on back.
Lost a mounting screw, dropping down into the internal batting.. no way to get to it other than disassemble the rest of the electronics and manipulate the box to get to it.. in my case that was a total failure and I ended borrowing one of those magnetic-tipped extendable retriever (http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/service/maintenance-tools/magnet-telescopic-tool-straight-5lb-pull-6-1-2-inch-to-32-inch-l?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CjwKEAjw1_KwBRDEz_WvncL4jGwSJAAEym0dA-xUUQ5wF02FzLOhU2gLws4_ePQNaR9nSbC9Qzu42xoCT83w_wcB) thingy's!!
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 13, 2015, 10:17:01 am
Thanks for the gloat Brandon- I really need that about now !!
Would not expect than on JBL.  Anyway, if otherwise the speaker is fine I would just open it up,  fish it out with a magnetic probe and call it a day.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 13, 2015, 10:41:54 am
I don't want to void the warranty -  I've sent a message to JBL.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Brandon Scopel on October 13, 2015, 10:44:01 am
Thanks for the gloat Brandon- I really need that about now !!
I didn't mean it like that😞. I did see some manufacturer issues like the saw dust and some globs of of finish in some places. It may be the freight shipping, but that was more expensive.

Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 13, 2015, 11:30:15 am
With simply removing the front grille, I managed to fish out the nut so its not floating around in there but it's impossible to put back into place without removing one of the woofers so I'm just going to go with 3 screws holding that one wheel on.
If Everett at JBL tells me I can remove the woofer without voiding my warranty, I will, but till then - I'll stick with what I have ……sorry for freaking out earlier but this is just ridiculous !!
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Scott Wagner on October 13, 2015, 11:58:57 am
With simply removing the front grille, I managed to fish out the nut so its not floating around in there but it's impossible to put back into place without removing one of the woofers so I'm just going to go with 3 screws holding that one wheel on.
If Everett at JBL tells me I can remove the woofer without voiding my warranty, I will, but till then - I'll stick with what I have ……sorry for freaking out earlier but this is just ridiculous !!
Every single new speaker I purchase gets the grill yanked, and every screw/bolt torqued (and the warrantee remains intact). I can't imagine removing/reinstalling a woofer would void the warrantee. Pulling the amp module might be a different story, though. Running with "the missing screw formation" could damage your cabinet. My recommendation is to fix the mount before installing the casters.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Kent Clasen on October 13, 2015, 12:07:38 pm
Not to divert your thread, but I am curious:

I have a SRX828SP in our warehouse and the green light next to the power button stays on (green) regardless if power is on or off. Just curious if that is normal, the manual doesn't say.

Otherwise very compact 2x18" sub. I hope to A/B with 2x PRX718XLF soon...
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 13, 2015, 12:09:59 pm
Not to divert your thread, but I am curious:

I have a SRX828SP in our warehouse and the green light next to the power button stays on (green) regardless if power is on or off. Just curious if that is normal, the manual doesn't say.

Otherwise very compact 2x18" sub. I hope to A/B with 2x PRX718XLF soon...

Yes - quite normal.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 13, 2015, 12:10:22 pm
Every single new speaker I purchase gets the grill yanked, and every screw/bolt torqued (and the warrantee remains intact). I can't imagine removing/reinstalling a woofer would void the warrantee. Pulling the amp module might be a different story, though. Running with "the missing screw formation" could damage your cabinet. My recommendation is to fix the mount before installing the casters.


Yes Scott - I just spoke to Everett at JBL. He recommends I replace the cabinet. He said the same as you - that running with 3 screws could end in disaster at some point down the road.
He didn't mention whether removing the woofer would void the warranty and I forgot to ask. I might get back to him and ask directly. I'd rather do that than replace again quite frankly.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Tom Roche on October 13, 2015, 12:47:08 pm
Now I feel bad for suggesting that you buy the SRX828p.  It begs the question: is it a string of bad luck or has JBL's quality gone down?  I'm hopeful you'll get this resolved soon and the sub exceeds your expectations.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 13, 2015, 01:30:18 pm

Yes Scott - I just spoke to Everett at JBL. He recommends I replace the cabinet. He said the same as you - that running with 3 screws could end in disaster at some point down the road.
He didn't mention whether removing the woofer would void the warranty and I forgot to ask. I might get back to him and ask directly. I'd rather do that than replace again quite frankly.

Pulling a driver won't void the warranty to my knoweldge either.  Perhaps if you put a finger through it.

I have two bad woofers in PRX412M's so I sure hope they will let me send just the drivers back.  This will be my first JBL RMA experience.

If you do get it apart I use gorilla glue with T-nuts.  I also use a washed to spread the low and thread it in without the driver to bite the nut into the wood.

Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on October 13, 2015, 01:51:37 pm
With simply removing the front grille, I managed to fish out the nut so its not floating around in there but it's impossible to put back into place without removing one of the woofers so I'm just going to go with 3 screws holding that one wheel on.
If Everett at JBL tells me I can remove the woofer without voiding my warranty, I will, but till then - I'll stick with what I have ……sorry for freaking out earlier but this is just ridiculous !!

Don't worry.  IME you can operate fairly safely with a screw or two loose.

But my mechanic always reminds me that my problems stem from a "loose nut behind the wheel".
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: lindsay Dean on October 13, 2015, 02:20:13 pm
why not bolt casters to 3/4 treated plywood paint black and attach to the cab ?
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 13, 2015, 02:33:23 pm
why not bolt casters to 3/4 treated plywood paint black and attach to the cab ?

I'm a big believer in caster boards/dollies.  I don't like having casters on the subs to rattle during the show and a dolly board allows me to decide about caster placement:  front, back, side, bottom.  The board can be strapped to the loudspeaker or held on by magnets (EAW did this).  Ratt and ShowCo used small butterfly case latches to hold the dollies to the front of their subs...
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Dave Pluke on October 13, 2015, 02:39:52 pm
why not bolt casters to 3/4 treated plywood paint black and attach to the cab ?

In the case of a squeaky clean, brand new cabinet with pre-installed (at least, MOST of them) attachments for casters, that shouldn't be necessary.  Also, with powered cabs, one has to be careful not to impact ventilation.

Dave
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: James Paul on October 13, 2015, 02:45:47 pm
why not bolt casters to 3/4 treated plywood paint black and attach to the cab ?
This would obviously require accommodating access to the amp/dsp panel with a cutout, however does nothing for the loose nut and the overriding primary issue of factory QC which I read as the focus of this thread.
However, following this suggestion I would add perhaps consider a separate unattached dolly board that can serve multi-use for the sub and other equipment.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 13, 2015, 02:46:38 pm
This would obviously require accommodating access to the amp/dsp panel with a cutout, however does nothing for the loose nut and the overriding primary issue of factory QC which I read as the focus of this thread.
However, following this suggestion I would add perhaps consider a separate unattached dolly board that can serve multi-use for the sub and other equipment.

Yepper, the whole idea of the dolly board is to REMOVE IT after moving the sub.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 13, 2015, 02:48:34 pm
Don't worry.  IME you can operate fairly safely with a screw or two loose.

But my mechanic always reminds me that my problems stem from a "loose nut behind the wheel".


ha ha…. well in this case I have a loose nut behind the driver …..so there is a link!!

I just called my guy at Sam Ash - neither of us quite knew what to say  ???
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 13, 2015, 02:56:43 pm
I'm a big believer in caster boards/dollies.  I don't like having casters on the subs to rattle during the show and a dolly board allows me to decide about caster placement:  front, back, side, bottom.  The board can be strapped to the loudspeaker or held on by magnets (EAW did this).  Ratt and ShowCo used small butterfly case latches to hold the dollies to the front of their subs...

I made the dollies I use on my PRX subs ( If you remember, I started a thread on here about them).. they turned out great.
However, I liked the idea of things looking a bit neater with these as they already have the bolts installed ready to go (just like the SRX718's did), I figured I'd try it this way. My sub cover was made for this configuration so I can't really change to dollies at this point with out purchasing another cover and wasting the one I have.
Right about now, going the dolly route would have helped me out but I am still 3 subs in regardless….

BTW… my JBL contact told me he would send me a T shirt for all the inconvenience…helps me feel a bit better. He also said he would send my file to the QC department which if addressed correctly , should be of benefit ultimately to the consumer...
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 13, 2015, 06:58:19 pm


BTW… my JBL contact told me he would send me a T shirt for all the inconvenience…

Your kidding me right?  A T-shirt....Even McDonald's gives you a coupon for a whole meal if they forget your condiments. 

If they did that to me they would probably insult me and send one not my size (vendors never have fat guy sizes, it's a huge discrimination issue) then they could bitch about my belly hanging out and my cargo shorts.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Rob Spence on October 13, 2015, 07:01:23 pm
I have few Harmon products. Actually, just 4 JBL wedges and a JBL studio monitor system.

I was thinking of getting a couple of new DBX DSPs.

The finish on the studio monitors failed into a sticky mess. JBL was no help there. This thread and a few others of late have soured me from buying anything Harmon again.

I hope someone from Harmon reads this.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Rob Spence on October 13, 2015, 07:05:30 pm
Debbie, I hope you get your sub sorted out soon and JBL does better than a tee shirt for you. At this point I would be demanding my money back and finding another solution.

You are not me. Probably a good thing.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Tim McCulloch on October 13, 2015, 07:44:17 pm
Your kidding me right?  A T-shirt....Even McDonald's gives you a coupon for a whole meal if they forget your condiments. 

If they did that to me they would probably insult me and send one not my size (vendors never have fat guy sizes, it's a huge discrimination issue) then they could bitch about my belly hanging out and my cargo shorts.

A referral to Omar the Tentmaker for ones wardrobe means swag is gonna be hard to come by, Scott. ;)
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 13, 2015, 08:56:22 pm
A referral to Omar the Tentmaker for ones wardrobe means swag is gonna be hard to come by, Scott. ;)

I don't think I am quite up to that point.  I am 6'3" and 270lbs....Even when I was 220 and had 36" waist I still needed a 3x to clear my shoulders and give some tuck length.

I do realize that 90% of the population can fit into a S-XXL.  They buy on a bell curve and I understand that.

I still think Debbie deserves more than a t-shirt (no thread drift here)....
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Bob Leonard on October 13, 2015, 10:26:22 pm
Debbie,
Not to rub it in but I have not purchased a JBL product that has been defective since I started with the product in 1964. That being said, and just being the devils advocate, it's not hard to knock out a "T" nut if accidently cross threaded or banged by the screw/bolt before starting the screw/bolt by hand.

You won't void the warranty if you replace the "T" nut or remove the driver, and honestly, this is the type of quick repair anyone in this business should be prepared to undertake at any time. Use the right size screw drivers and you'll be just fine.

And I'm with Tim. I use dolly board for everything. Easy to make and they can be used for other gear as well.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 13, 2015, 11:35:36 pm
Debbie,
Not to rub it in but I have not purchased a JBL product that has been defective since I started with the product in 1964. That being said, and just being the devils advocate, it's not hard to knock out a "T" nut if accidently cross threaded or banged by the screw/bolt before starting the screw/bolt by hand.

You won't void the warranty if you replace the "T" nut or remove the driver, and honestly, this is the type of quick repair anyone in this business should be prepared to undertake at any time. Use the right size screw drivers and you'll be just fine.

And I'm with Tim. I use dolly board for everything. Easy to make and they can be used for other gear as well.

Ironically Bob, I attached the wheels to the first defective sub before I realized it didnt work. One of the T nuts was loose on that one too - as I unscrewed the bolt, it went round and round so I pulled on the bolt and removed it under tension so as to make sure the teeth held. Once I placed the wheel plate and replaced the bolt, I threaded it very slowly and carefully till it bit and held.

This time , I knew right away what had happened on this particular nut as it did exactly the same thing. However, with this one, even though I pulled on the nut to get the teeth to hold, as I gently removed the bolt from the thread, the nut just fell in. I was extremely careful, so it must have been very loose….No cross-threading, or banging involved….

I am quite happy to remove and replace the driver myself as I have done many times but I do not want to risk that warranty. I have asked tech support if I can remove the driver and I am still waiting for a response from them - I will call them again tomorrow just to be sure.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Rob Spence on October 13, 2015, 11:35:36 pm
Debbie,
Not to rub it in but I have not purchased a JBL product that has been defective since I started with the product in 1964. That being said, and just being the devils advocate, it's not hard to knock out a "T" nut if accidently cross threaded or banged by the screw/bolt before starting the screw/bolt by hand.

You won't void the warranty if you replace the "T" nut or remove the driver, and honestly, this is the type of quick repair anyone in this business should be prepared to undertake at any time. Use the right size screw drivers and you'll be just fine.

And I'm with Tim. I use dolly board for everything. Easy to make and they can be used for other gear as well.

Bob, that's low to imply Debby might be to blame. You just cannot accept that JBL can do any wrong.

While I agree that in this business you should be prepared to repair things, you also have a right to products in good working order when you pay for new.

Debbie has 3 defective units in a row while JBL has her money for more than 2 months and thinks a tee shirt will make it right?

Yes, caster boards are great but JBL designed the sub to have the wheels attached.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Mike Christy on October 14, 2015, 05:50:33 am
Just curious - from a manufacturing standpoint - did the loose t-nut have 0, 2, 3, 4 or 6 prongs on it?

Of the many dolly boards I've built (16 t-nuts/per) not one has fallen out during assembly, although I do bang the b'jesus out of them to make them "stick"....

I like dollies better than box mounted wheels, beside the obvious they can provide a bumper around the edges to actually protect the box.

Mike
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Bob Leonard on October 14, 2015, 06:47:58 am
Bob, that's low to imply Debby might be to blame. You just cannot accept that JBL can do any wrong.

While I agree that in this business you should be prepared to repair things, you also have a right to products in good working order when you pay for new.

Debbie has 3 defective units in a row while JBL has her money for more than 2 months and thinks a tee shirt will make it right?

Yes, caster boards are great but JBL designed the sub to have the wheels attached.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I didn't imply Debbie knowingly did anything wrong Rob. I implied that "T" nuts can be pushed out or fall out with little or no effort. "T" nuts are not designed to stay in place without being pulled into place by the force of the tightened screw or bolt. That is why the cabinets are shipped with the bolts in place. The use of "T" nuts in an enclosed space with no access is just poor design for this very reason Rob, implying JBL could use another fastener or fastening system for this purpose.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Brian Bolly on October 14, 2015, 07:08:53 am
Bob, I think you are in the fortunate minority with that. 

I recently ordered 4 PRX 712 wedges that showed up shrink wrapped together on a pallet.  The first thing I did after pulling them out of the box was power them up and stick a mic in front of them and measure them with SIM.  What did I find?  One of the LF sections of one of the boxes was bad.  Not just a little off, but anywhere from 6-12 dB down depending on how the controls were set, in comparison to its other 3 brethren.  And it wasn't subtle - I could hear it as soon as I plugged it in, before even walking back to the computer to verify.

At this point it's JBLs job to send me an advance replacement.  Could I have started swapping drivers and amp modules to figure out exactly where the culprit lies and just get the replacement part?  Sure, but that's not my job.  Had it failed later down the road I may have been more willing, but this box missed QC by a wide margin.  And since all 4 were shrink wrapped together on a pallet, I can't really say it's a shipping issue either.

I've yet to find a speaker company where something doesn't slip through QC from time to time.  Some companies are more frequent offenders than others, but nobody is perfect.  The important part is how they handle the response.  If it's something as simple as a T-nut, they should give Debby the go-ahead to fix it herself without warranty issue (and Debby, your dealer should back you up on this as you are saving everyone money and time by fixing it yourself).  If it's failed drivers, electronic or something structural (de-laminating cabinet, etc), she should get an advance replacement for the part or entire cabinet as necessary. 
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Ivan Beaver on October 14, 2015, 08:00:06 am
I didn't imply Debbie knowingly did anything wrong Rob. I implied that "T" nuts can be pushed out or fall out with little or no effort. "T" nuts are not designed to stay in place without being pulled into place by the force of the tightened screw or bolt. That is why the cabinets are shipped with the bolts in place. The use of "T" nuts in an enclosed space with no access is just poor design for this very reason Rob, implying JBL could use another fastener or fastening system for this purpose.
I don't know where the tnuts in question are, but I imagine that they are shipped with the bolts in them for 2 reasons.

The first to prevent air from leaking out and whistling.  The second would be that the bolts simply help keep the tnuts from falling out during shipment, transportation.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Mike Christy on October 14, 2015, 09:41:57 am
"T" nuts are not designed to stay in place without being pulled into place by the force of the tightened screw or bolt.

JBL is using regular philips screws on these, if they are relying on the torque of a philips screw to pull a t-nut into baltic birch, w/o pressing them in  - NO WONDER they are falling out.



Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 14, 2015, 10:13:47 am
Just curious - from a manufacturing standpoint - did the loose t-nut have 0, 2, 3, 4 or 6 prongs on it?

Of the many dolly boards I've built (16 t-nuts/per) not one has fallen out during assembly, although I do bang the b'jesus out of them to make them "stick"....

I like dollies better than box mounted wheels, beside the obvious they can provide a bumper around the edges to actually protect the box.

Mike

3 prong
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 14, 2015, 10:17:07 am
Bolt and nut
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Pat Talbot on October 14, 2015, 10:28:10 am
JBL is using regular philips screws on these, if they are relying on the torque of a philips screw to pull a t-nut into baltic birch, w/o pressing them in  - NO WONDER they are falling out.

Yep...those should really be allen head or torx.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Scott Wagner on October 14, 2015, 11:38:05 am
Yep...those should really be allen head or torx.
...or an actual bolt.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Brian Jojade on October 14, 2015, 12:47:24 pm
I am quite happy to remove and replace the driver myself as I have done many times but I do not want to risk that warranty. I have asked tech support if I can remove the driver and I am still waiting for a response from them - I will call them again tomorrow just to be sure.

If you take out the driver and damage it in the process, you would void your warranty.  If you take it out and put it back in place with no visible markings, they will be none the wiser from a warranty standpoint.

Personally, something as trivial as a loose T-nut wouldn't have me waste the time and effort on a warranty claim.  Take out the screws, put the T-nut back in with a dab of epoxy so it stays put, and put the thing back together.

A t-nut without a screw holding it in place WILL shake loose no matter what.  Once your wheels are on, you won't have to worry about it.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Mike Pyle on October 14, 2015, 03:22:36 pm
I think in the future I might make it a practice to torque down the factory screws before I remove them, just to be certain the T-nuts are seated fully. Maybe that wasn't tightened properly at first.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Jay Marr on October 14, 2015, 03:31:37 pm
Can't you get to that T-Nut by taking of the handle???
When I put wheels on my 728 sub, I drilled the holes and put T-Nuts in, simple by only removing the handles.
I don't have a 828 to look at, but I believe the form factor is similar enough.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 14, 2015, 04:11:24 pm
Can't you get to that T-Nut by taking of the handle???
When I put wheels on my 728 sub, I drilled the holes and put T-Nuts in, simple by only removing the handles.
I don't have a 828 to look at, but I believe the form factor is similar enough.

That was the first thing I tried. The handle is in 2 pieces both screwed into the cab. When I removed all the screws and pulled on the handle, I almost shot across the room because the middle piece came away from the housing. Getting the housing out would have been difficult without causing gouge marks. I abandoned that route.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 14, 2015, 04:13:48 pm
If you take out the driver and damage it in the process, you would void your warranty.  If you take it out and put it back in place with no visible markings, they will be none the wiser from a warranty standpoint.

Personally, something as trivial as a loose T-nut wouldn't have me waste the time and effort on a warranty claim.  Take out the screws, put the T-nut back in with a dab of epoxy so it stays put, and put the thing back together.

A t-nut without a screw holding it in place WILL shake loose no matter what.  Once your wheels are on, you won't have to worry about it.

I'm getting to that point- suddenly my guy at JBl has become a little elusive.....
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 14, 2015, 04:19:08 pm
...or an actual bolt.


That's what I was thinking- the amount of torque needed to get these 'bolts' nice and tight could cause damage to the Philips head if not careful. I have been very careful and used a large screwdriver which fits snug but bolt heads would have been much nicer- could have used my sockets!!....... ( I really am quite the tomboy aren't I??)
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on October 14, 2015, 05:58:04 pm

That's what I was thinking- the amount of torque needed to get these 'bolts' nice and tight could cause damage to the Philips head if not careful. I have been very careful and used a large screwdriver which fits snug but bolt heads would have been much nicer- could have used my sockets!!....... ( I really am quite the tomboy aren't I??)

Phillips cross-head screws were designed to "cam-out" at high torque. Pozidriv cross-head screws are designed NOT to cam-out.  I agree that a Torx head or an ordinary hex head machine screw is easier to deal with. I change out funky screws as a standard practice.

Debbie, FWIW, you can get Phillips head drivers (in sizes) for your socket set.  Fly your tool freak flag proudly, sister!
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Steve M Smith on October 14, 2015, 06:05:04 pm
I don't think I have seen Philips head screws used in anything for many years now.  It's all Posidrive.


Steve.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Bob Leonard on October 14, 2015, 06:36:14 pm
At this point it's JBLs job to send me an advance replacement.  Could I have started swapping drivers and amp modules to figure out exactly where the culprit lies and just get the replacement part?  Sure, but that's not my job.  Had it failed later down the road I may have been more willing, but this box missed QC by a wide margin.  And since all 4 were shrink wrapped together on a pallet, I can't really say it's a shipping issue either.

I've yet to find a speaker company where something doesn't slip through QC from time to time.  Some companies are more frequent offenders than others, but nobody is perfect.  The important part is how they handle the response.  If it's something as simple as a T-nut, they should give Debby the go-ahead to fix it herself without warranty issue (and Debby, your dealer should back you up on this as you are saving everyone money and time by fixing it yourself).  If it's failed drivers, electronic or something structural (de-laminating cabinet, etc), she should get an advance replacement for the part or entire cabinet as necessary. 

I fully agree.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 14, 2015, 08:43:12 pm
I don't think I have seen Philips head screws used in anything for many years now.  It's all Posidrive.


Steve.

I've noticed that Steve when I go back to the UK…..Its still mainly Philips here.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 14, 2015, 08:46:49 pm
Phillips cross-head screws were designed to "cam-out" at high torque. Pozidriv cross-head screws are designed NOT to cam-out.  I agree that a Torx head or an ordinary hex head machine screw is easier to deal with. I change out funky screws as a standard practice.

Debbie, FWIW, you can get Phillips head drivers (in sizes) for your socket set.  Fly your tool freak flag proudly, sister!

Oh I have all kinds of cool tools and socket pieces AND I actually do use them !!!…….Its just that there is nothing like the secure feel of a socket on a hex bolt….oh yeah!!
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 14, 2015, 08:47:23 pm
I've noticed that Steve when I go back to the UK…..Its still mainly Philips here.

And a girl that knows the difference, bestill my heart.  My  wife can roll cables and is fairly good with tools,  I just asked her and she doesn't know what a posi drive is. 
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Bob Leonard on October 14, 2015, 10:14:23 pm
Debbie,

First, it was not my intent to insult you as was implied. My goal was to enlighten the community to the need for using extreme caution when mounting parts of any type when "T" nuts are involved.

Many moon ago I worked as a model maker/experimental machinist. This was a job I help for uncle Sam that lasted 20 years before changing my vocation and career path. Regardless, there are some myths to dispel.

"T" nut, or blind rivets as they are sometimes called come in many varieties, and I believe JBL could end this problem by using the correct type "T" nut for this purpose. Note that your picture shows a 3 prong "T" nut. Common with furniture and used in places where access to the "T" is possible. The prongs are tapered of course, because they are designed to penetrate the wood. They are NOT designed to keep the "T" nut from backing out, but merely to keep the "T" nut from spinning and to hold it in place while starting the screw.

Another type of "T", which JBL should be using, is designed with the intent to lock the "T" nut in place after penetrating the wood. These "T" nuts are designed for high retention in wood making the chance of knocking one out slim at best. The "T" nuts of the type you show have little retention capabilities. Even light force when starting the screw or bolt can sometimes push the common "T" nut out.

The type "T" nut JBL should be using are known as "high retention" or Propell nuts.

Here is a link that shows those nuts, which can be purchased to replace the common "T" nut if the need ever arises.

http://shop.stafast.com/t-nuts

Phillips head screws have the same strength as any other screw using a different head style, regardless of that style, be it Torx, Posidrive, Triwing, clutch, Robertson, Square, Double square, Polydrive, Bristol, etc.. The many head types were designed for different applications, mainly due to automated insertion and security. Next time your in a public restroom look at the screws holding the walls. Those are known as "One way" screws. They go in, but are not intended to be removed without a special removal tool.

The real deal with any screw type is using the correct tool to drive or remove the screw. Phillips head screws are precisely designed, and contrary to belief they are not designed so that the driver slips out. If the driver slips out then 1) you're using the wrong size driver, or 2) the driver is worn out, simple as that. To keep from stripping the head of any fastener use the right size driver, use a quality driver, and use a hardened steel tipped driver that fits precisely. The best technique will be to start the screw, turn until it starts to tighten, then finish tightening the screw by pushing down with force by putting the palm of your hand on the end of the driver and turning at the same time. Removal is the reverse of insertion, always keeping downward force on the driver until the screw starts to turn. Lastly, if your driver becomes rounded or constantly jumps out of the screw head, buy a new driver.

The most common Phillips drivers most people need will be 0, 1, 2, and 3. Always keep a long driver on hand. My favorite is a Craftsman #2, 8" magnetized. Why Craftsman? Because they make great tools, their screw drivers fit properly, and when you wear them out you can have them replaced at any Sears for free. Good luck kiddo, and don't give up on JBL.

Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Jeremy Young on October 14, 2015, 10:32:00 pm
I'll take a robertson over a phillips any day, eh!
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on October 14, 2015, 10:50:32 pm
I'll take a robertson over a phillips any day, eh!

Yes.  In the US, it also tends to serve as a tamper-resistant fastener (although much less so than 30 years ago). Japanese cross-head screws have a slightly different internal profile than the classic Phillips design. "JIS" (Japanese Industrial Standard) spec cross-head screwdrivers are available from various suppliers. It makes a difference when you use the right tool.

Sorry for the topic swerve.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 15, 2015, 12:11:50 am
Debbie,

First, it was not my intent to insult you as was implied. My goal was to enlighten the community to the need for using extreme caution when mounting parts of any type when "T" nuts are involved.

Many moon ago I worked as a model maker/experimental machinist. This was a job I help for uncle Sam that lasted 20 years before changing my vocation and career path. Regardless, there are some myths to dispel.

"T" nut, or blind rivets as they are sometimes called come in many varieties, and I believe JBL could end this problem by using the correct type "T" nut for this purpose. Note that your picture shows a 3 prong "T" nut. Common with furniture and used in places where access to the "T" is possible. The prongs are tapered of course, because they are designed to penetrate the wood. They are NOT designed to keep the "T" nut from backing out, but merely to keep the "T" nut from spinning and to hold it in place while starting the screw.

Another type of "T", which JBL should be using, is designed with the intent to lock the "T" nut in place after penetrating the wood. These "T" nuts are designed for high retention in wood making the chance of knocking one out slim at best. The "T" nuts of the type you show have little retention capabilities. Even light force when starting the screw or bolt can sometimes push the common "T" nut out.

The type "T" nut JBL should be using are known as "high retention" or Propell nuts.

Here is a link that shows those nuts, which can be purchased to replace the common "T" nut if the need ever arises.

http://shop.stafast.com/t-nuts

Phillips head screws have the same strength as any other screw using a different head style, regardless of that style, be it Torx, Posidrive, Triwing, clutch, Robertson, Square, Double square, Polydrive, Bristol, etc.. The many head types were designed for different applications, mainly due to automated insertion and security. Next time your in a public restroom look at the screws holding the walls. Those are known as "One way" screws. They go in, but are not intended to be removed without a special removal tool.

The real deal with any screw type is using the correct tool to drive or remove the screw. Phillips head screws are precisely designed, and contrary to belief they are not designed so that the driver slips out. If the driver slips out then 1) you're using the wrong size driver, or 2) the driver is worn out, simple as that. To keep from stripping the head of any fastener use the right size driver, use a quality driver, and use a hardened steel tipped driver that fits precisely. The best technique will be to start the screw, turn until it starts to tighten, then finish tightening the screw by pushing down with force by putting the palm of your hand on the end of the driver and turning at the same time. Removal is the reverse of insertion, always keeping downward force on the driver until the screw starts to turn. Lastly, if your driver becomes rounded or constantly jumps out of the screw head, buy a new driver.

The most common Phillips drivers most people need will be 0, 1, 2, and 3. Always keep a long driver on hand. My favorite is a Craftsman #2, 8" magnetized. Why Craftsman? Because they make great tools, their screw drivers fit properly, and when you wear them out you can have them replaced at any Sears for free. Good luck kiddo, and don't give up on JBL.

Sometimes our intent can be poorly communicated when expressed in writing - I dislike texts for the same reason - LOL… no worries Bob….
Any information shared here is valuable to folks - I absorb everything I read on this forum like a sponge and try not to take things personally. As I have said many times, I appreciate and value all the advice I have received over the few years I have been a member here.

I haven't given up on JBL just yet…. I have had too many years of excellent service for that to happen …..although right about now…..they are pushing their luck !

Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 15, 2015, 12:48:14 am
The best technique will be to start the screw, turn until it starts to tighten, then finish tightening the screw by pushing down with force by putting the palm of your hand on the end of the driver and turning at the same time. Removal is the reverse of insertion, always keeping downward force on the driver until the screw starts to turn. Lastly, if your driver becomes rounded or constantly jumps out of the screw head, buy a new driver.

.

Geez Bob, all these years I thought you were supposed to balance the screw on the head of a electric drill motor, run it up to full speed with the clutch disabled, ram the screw in the hole and then strip the shit out of the head as it goes in.

The other variation of this technique when using machine threads is to cross thread the fastener then use the power of the tool to strip the threads while concurrently stripping the shit out of the head, hoping the fastener snugs up before it is destroyed.

This also provides extra work for the poor SOB that has to take it apart and when done in racks in data centers really pisses the boss off.

It also provides much humor to watch someone use this technique to secure the first screw of a speaker driver while the cabinet is still vertical.  This requires the extra skill of supporting the weight of the driver while getting the screw to bite into the wood (because all the t-nuts are stuck to the back of the driver after you pushed them out) without ramming the fastener through the cone. 

Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Steve M Smith on October 15, 2015, 02:45:22 am
Sometimes our intent can be poorly communicated when expressed in writing - I dislike texts for the same reason - LOL… no worries Bob….
I didn't see any insult in Bob's post.  I read it as more of a "don't worry, it coud happen to anyone" comment rather than "you idiot, you shouldn't have done that" sort of comment.

You are correct about written responses (I don't do texts, but that's probably because I don't have a phone).  When we speak face to face we have tone of voice and body language to express ourselves with.  Take that away and it's very easy to take something the wrong way.

I have seen forum posts go off on an irrelevant tangent for many pages upsetting people over something which was nothing to do with the point being made.  Not on this forum though.  This one is great.


Steve.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Marjan Milosevic on October 15, 2015, 04:50:57 am
Sorry but i must disagree with Bob and some others here.
Tnuts should not be easy to push back if they are secured as they should be.
So this is just very poor and unprofessional mounting of tnuts there by JBL.
Here is how it should be done.
On the subs we are putting two screws.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Steve M Smith on October 15, 2015, 05:06:48 am
Whilst that is a good 'belt and braces'* method to ensure they do not turn or fall out, it souldn't really be necessary.

I don't know enough about T nuts, but Bob did state that he thought the wrong type were being used.

A T nut, in my opinion, is pointless if it does not stay in place by itself and it should be able to do that without any outside help.

(* do you use that expression in the US?).


Steve.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Bob Leonard on October 15, 2015, 07:15:31 am
Sorry but i must disagree with Bob and some others here.
Tnuts should not be easy to push back if they are secured as they should be.
So this is just very poor and unprofessional mounting of tnuts there by JBL.
Here is how it should be done.
On the subs we are putting two screws.

If you used high retention "T" nuts instead of those 8 sided "T" nuts you wouldn't need the sheet rock screw. And to be honest, the use of the sheet rock screw makes the assembly look as if you're repairing a problem vs. attempting to eliminate one. If you used a "T" nut such as the one at the link below you'll eliminate the screw, the worry, the labor, and lower cost while providing a more professional look and appearance of quality.

http://shop.stafast.com/t-nuts/locking/ultimate-locking-rivet (http://shop.stafast.com/t-nuts/locking/ultimate-locking-rivet)
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: George Friedman-Jimenez on October 15, 2015, 09:23:29 am
First off, Bob, your previous post is one of the best written posts I have seen on this forum. Real useful information on a common problem few people really understand in depth from someone who really knows a better way. Hopefully JBL is reading along and considers revising their production process based on your advice. Thanks.
Second, I see a flange on the photo of the T-nut, which looks like it is part of the design to address just the problem we are talking about, retention of the T-nut after installation. It looks like that flange gets created after installing the T-nut. Is this just done by banging a countersink in the open side while securing the T head from being dislodged? Or is there a special installation bolt that creates the flange when tightened, while keeping the T-nut in place, and is then removed?
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 15, 2015, 11:05:43 am
I used T Nuts when I made those dolly boards a few months back. I can't remember what type they were but I must admit, I didn't give that part much thought- I just went to the store and purchased what looked right for the job.
Once I drilled and hammered in the T Nuts into the back of the board, there is no way they could have fallen out or ever will.
In fact, in the past, I have attempted to remove them and found it difficult  so like Bob said, it has to do with the style of T Nut ( and perhaps quality?)...
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Tommy Peel on October 15, 2015, 11:37:25 am
Geez Bob, all these years I thought you were supposed to balance the screw on the head of a electric drill motor, run it up to full speed with the clutch disabled, ram the screw in the hole and then strip the shit out of the head as it goes in.

The other variation of this technique when using machine threads is to cross thread the fastener then use the power of the tool to strip the threads while concurrently stripping the shit out of the head, hoping the fastener snugs up before it is destroyed.

This also provides extra work for the poor SOB that has to take it apart and when done in racks in data centers really pisses the boss off.

It also provides much humor to watch someone use this technique to secure the first screw of a speaker driver while the cabinet is still vertical.  This requires the extra skill of supporting the weight of the driver while getting the screw to bite into the wood (because all the t-nuts are stuck to the back of the driver after you pushed them out) without ramming the fastener through the cone.

I recall another version of this technique from my days working in a tractor shop as a mechanic. It involved a 1/2in or larger air powered impact driver destroying the threads in a tractor frame while installing a front end loader mount. They'd just hope the bolt went down tight and flush before the destroyed threads stopped the impact driver.

Then again sometimes the threads were in bad shape to begin with and would cause problems w/out cross threading. At one point I remember the assembly guys were running a tap down all the loader mount threads before putting the bolts in to prevent problems. Then the shop foreman would complain they were taking too long.... Always time to go back and fix it but never enough time to do it right the first time.

</thread_side_track>
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Marjan Milosevic on October 15, 2015, 12:01:53 pm
Bob, i am not aware of anyone using those tnuts.
By looking at it i can assume that the process of installing them is much longer then simply hammering the tnut.
For me wood inserts are much more elegant solution. But also more time consuming.
(http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/images/inserts.gif)
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Steve M Smith on October 15, 2015, 12:34:20 pm
I would think T nuts would be stronger than those inserts as they have a flange behind the panel.  The inserts break up the panel around the hole.


Steve.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Bob Leonard on October 15, 2015, 01:01:40 pm
Bob, i am not aware of anyone using those tnuts.
By looking at it i can assume that the process of installing them is much longer then simply hammering the tnut.
For me wood inserts are much more elegant solution. But also more time consuming.
(http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/images/inserts.gif)

Marjan,

The inserts you show above were designed for particle board and are usually used with the type desks and furniture you assemble yourself. They are not made of steel but are made from "white metal", a cheap type of pot metal. They really have no load bearing strength and I wouldn't trust them for much more than a particle board desk.

Follow the link below and you'll find an insertion tool for the high retention "T" nuts. Insertion time with a drill should be less than 10 seconds per nut. Be sure you match the tool to the nut.

LINKY (http://www.google.com/shopping/product/17239471249534561473?lsf=seller:1135568,store:4262651918766186661&prds=oid:8931909325666413433&q=t+nut+insertion+tool&hl=en&ei=ZNofVtPDIcHNeMufnpgH&lsft=gclid:CNeDkfb4xMgCFUUXHwodjhoGfQ)
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Marjan Milosevic on October 15, 2015, 02:30:44 pm
Bob, that will probably work with those tnuts you showed us. Not with a "normal" tnuts that has a quite shorter length.
As for the inserts, i do use them for the pole cups, and they are made out of steel, not the metal you mention. So there are more types. So if you screw it to the baffle from the inside it holds very good.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 15, 2015, 04:14:53 pm
I called JBL again a little while ago as I hadn't heard back after leaving a couple of messages and sending 2 emails??
Anyway, this time I spoke to Sam who told me to go ahead and remove the woofer to get that TNut back in... Lots of apologies etc etc.....
Won't have time before the weekend so I'll finally get to use it Saturday (yay) and then pull out the driver on Monday or Tuesday. Sam asked me to send photos of everything once I am in there so I will. He said he is head of Quality and was interested to hear everything I had to say.
Looking more and more at that T Nut, it really is poor quality - the prongs are quite short and thin compared to those I have come across and used my self in the past.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: DavidTurner on October 15, 2015, 05:10:28 pm
Yes, but we call braces suspenders. So over here it would be "belt and suspenders". BTW what you call suspenders are called garters here.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Jay Marr on October 15, 2015, 07:07:17 pm
Bob, i am not aware of anyone using those tnuts.
By looking at it i can assume that the process of installing them is much longer then simply hammering the tnut.


I used the same ones that Bob mentioned, on my 728's.
They are simple to install, and IMO perfect for the job.

I removed my handle, drilled the holes, put the t-nut in, put the caster in position and dropped the bolt through....painless.
FYI, the wheels have been on for somewhere around 7 years....not a single issue with one coming loose or anything.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 15, 2015, 08:10:16 pm
I used the same ones that Bob mentioned, on my 728's.
They are simple to install, and IMO perfect for the job.

I removed my handle, drilled the holes, put the t-nut in, put the caster in position and dropped the bolt through....painless.
FYI, the wheels have been on for somewhere around 7 years....not a single issue with one coming loose or anything.

To be fair, they are not going to come loose with a bolt holding them in (at least I hope not )…..
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Bob Leonard on October 15, 2015, 09:07:04 pm
I have bolts in my neck and head. Be CAREFUL when you pull the driver, and you should point JBL Sam to this link.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 15, 2015, 09:11:38 pm
I have bolts in my neck and head. Be CAREFUL when you pull the driver, and you should point JBL Sam to this link.

I'm wondering how Im going to actually pull it out as I can't get behind it to  push from behind…

Sam had asked if it would be easier pulling the amp and going in through there but again there is nothing to hold on to.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: duane massey on October 15, 2015, 09:23:53 pm
I quit using standard T-nuts in my cabinets several years ago. I've had really good luck with "hurricane" nuts, but you have to drill a clean hole. If you do it properly you can hammer them in or pull them through. I know some people don't like these, and I do like the ones that were posted earlier. I do use baltic birch, which definitely grips these things better than other types of wood.

+1 on square-drive, but I have had difficulties finding some of the screws that I prefer to use with square-drive heads.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Stephen Kirby on October 15, 2015, 09:44:17 pm
I'm wondering how Im going to actually pull it out as I can't get behind it to  push from behind…

Sam had asked if it would be easier pulling the amp and going in through there but again there is nothing to hold on to.
I would hand press it into the hole to get the barbs started, then gently thread a capscrew or bolt with a large washer from the outside until it's snug.  Then slowly pull the t-nut into the wood with the bolt until it's made an impression with the entire flange.  That's how I put all my t-nuts in.  I might be able to give them a whack with a hammer to get them started but pulling with a bolt keeps things straight and ensures that it's fully seated.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Dave Pluke on October 15, 2015, 10:25:46 pm
I'm wondering how Im going to actually pull it out as I can't get behind it to  push from behind…

You're referring to the speaker?  Try gently slipping a putty knife under the gasket.  They should still be pliable, since the cab is new.  Once you get one edge up, shim it and pry the other side with the putty knife.  Eventually, you should have enough frame edge to grab onto.

Dave
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 15, 2015, 10:49:41 pm
I would hand press it into the hole to get the barbs started, then gently thread a capscrew or bolt with a large washer from the outside until it's snug.  Then slowly pull the t-nut into the wood with the bolt until it's made an impression with the entire flange.  That's how I put all my t-nuts in.  I might be able to give them a whack with a hammer to get them started but pulling with a bolt keeps things straight and ensures that it's fully seated.

Yes- no banging in the T Nut that close to the amp and circuitry so Ill need to be gentle and firm...
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 15, 2015, 10:50:49 pm
You're referring to the speaker?  Try gently slipping a putty knife under the gasket.  They should still be pliable, since the cab is new.  Once you get one edge up, shim it and pry the other side with the putty knife.  Eventually, you should have enough frame edge to grab onto.

Dave

Good suggestion Dave…. I gots me plenty of shims so I should be able to work my way around raising the flange as I go.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 16, 2015, 12:22:41 am
Yes, but we call braces suspenders. So over here it would be "belt and suspenders". BTW what you call suspenders are called garters here.

Garters hold your socks up.  I have never seen those in actual use.  When I am doing manual labor nothing beats a loose fitting pair of carpenters jeans and Carhart Braces.  I have heard the term "belts and braces" used by more than just UK friends.  I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone under 40 familiar. 

Goes with "carter has bills (who is this Carter guy??? It was Carter's liver pills!) and In like Flynn !"

Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Steve M Smith on October 16, 2015, 02:46:31 am
Yes, but we call braces suspenders. So over here it would be "belt and suspenders". BTW what you call suspenders are called garters here.
Suspenders are what women (and some men I suppose) use to hold up stockings.

As for getting T nuts in and out without resorting to a hammer, a bolt of the correct thread and a washer can be used to pull them in, but to get them out, you could add a cylindrical piece of metal such as a short piece of iron pipe which fits over the flange and screw them out from the inside.


Steve.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 16, 2015, 03:06:05 am
Steve men's garters are worn just above the ankle.  I have only seen them in old movies.  I assume socks were not as elastic as they are now

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Bob Leonard on October 16, 2015, 06:59:08 am
Garters hold your socks up.  I have never seen those in actual use.  When I am doing manual labor nothing beats a loose fitting pair of carpenters jeans and Carhart Braces.  I have heard the term "belts and braces" used by more than just UK friends.  I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone under 40 familiar. 

Goes with "carter has bills (who is this Carter guy??? It was Carter's liver pills!) and In like Flynn !"



Debbie,

In response to Scott's post above, I have no doubt that in no time at all you'll be "in like Flynn". I also have no doubt you'll succeed as you're not one of those people that has more excuses than "Carter has little liver pills."

The Flynn by the way is Errol Flynn. Meet Mr. Flynn;
 
 
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Mike Christy on October 16, 2015, 12:19:06 pm
Nothing really to add, just want to see if we can get the page count up to 10 for 1 loose t-nut...
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Mike Sullivan on October 16, 2015, 12:24:58 pm
Nothing really to add, just want to see if we can get the page count up to 10 for 1 loose t-nut...

+1 to help my post count.   :P
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: James Paul on October 16, 2015, 12:34:55 pm
Nothing really to add, just want to see if we can get the page count up to 10 for 1 loose t-nut...
I`m in for 2 nuts, so 2 get you 20?  ;)
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 16, 2015, 12:57:51 pm
Well in fairness, one of the T Nuts on the first (DOA) SRX828 was loose too - I just managed to save it from falling…so that is a legitimate 20 - no?
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on October 16, 2015, 12:58:37 pm
Debbie,

In response to Scott's post above, I have no doubt that in no time at all you'll be "in like Flynn". I also have no doubt you'll succeed as you're not one of those people that has more excuses than "Carter has little liver pills."

The Flynn by the way is Errol Flynn. Meet Mr. Flynn;

Swashbuckler - right? …see , I keep my eyes open.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Rick Powell on October 16, 2015, 01:08:23 pm
I would hand press it into the hole to get the barbs started, then gently thread a capscrew or bolt with a large washer from the outside until it's snug.  Then slowly pull the t-nut into the wood with the bolt until it's made an impression with the entire flange.  That's how I put all my t-nuts in.  I might be able to give them a whack with a hammer to get them started but pulling with a bolt keeps things straight and ensures that it's fully seated.

I use a small vise to seat them.  Equal compression on the whole nut, and it goes in square and you can really compress it in.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Scott Holtzman on October 16, 2015, 04:29:56 pm
When I compress my nuts it must be equal.  On a serious note I use the fender washer trick previously noted.
Title: Re: SRX828p - at my wit's end!
Post by: Bob Leonard on October 16, 2015, 05:32:45 pm
Sometimes you feel like a nut... Sometimes you don't.

Lot's of "T" nuts in Boston.