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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Tim Weaver on September 16, 2015, 08:19:26 pm

Title: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 16, 2015, 08:19:26 pm
So I'm doing a gig in a decent club, but it has the worst pa and dj rigs I've ever seen!

The PA is from "Klear Lake Audio". Which is a company in Clear Lake TX that makes boxes with speakers in them without the benefit of engineering. I've run across these Klear Lake boxes several times in Texas. They are always a "line array" style cabinet with components which won't work properly.

These cabs have 2 12's, 2 regular horn flares with I think 1" entry, and 4 ribbon tweeters spaced out on each end of the cabinet. 

You might notice that the horn flares in the middle are basic 90x60 flares that you can buy super cheap anywhere. Also, the ribbons are home hi-fi units from parts express http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pt2c-8-planar-tweeter--275-085

Even as 1 box a side it would be an acoustic disaster. When you stack them 6 high its a nightmare. This rig sounds like dog shit.


And just for fun my monitor guy struck a pose! Lol
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 16, 2015, 08:24:02 pm
And on to the DJ rig.

Its a bunch (a whole bunch!) of harbinger powered 215/horn boxes. Hung up with eyebolts just screwed right into the side there!
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Stephen Kirby on September 16, 2015, 08:27:32 pm
I wonder what the ribbons are for?  They're not terribly efficient and don't go that high.  The 1" horns will out run them by a huge margin.

Around 10 years ago I built a small "line array" system using these and some 8" woofers.  It had some directivity up high and worked okay in some street festivals.  It was tri-amped and I used Smaart to set up the DSP so other than some comb filtering because I couldn't cross the 8's to the ribbons low enough, they sounded better than the flat faced piles of 15" two ways other folks were using.

When I tore it apart I noticed that several of the tweeters had the polyimide film darkened from excessive heat.  Which takes some serious heat.  I still have these things in a box in my garage if they need any spares.  ;)
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 16, 2015, 08:32:10 pm
Haha. I did notice that several of the tweets were dark!
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 16, 2015, 08:32:57 pm
And this company builds things that "look cool" and they don't worry too much about how it sounds
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 16, 2015, 08:33:05 pm
And on to the DJ rig.

Its a bunch (a whole bunch!) of harbinger powered 215/horn boxes. Hung up with eyebolts just screwed right into the side

"The eye(bolt)s of Texas are upon you.....la la la...
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 16, 2015, 09:11:04 pm
But as long as it is (or looks like) a "line array"-many people will be happy with it.

They don't know why-but they like the "name", because it is "cool to have a line array", everybody knows that-----------

More drivers means better-right?
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on September 16, 2015, 09:40:40 pm
I like the extended, side loaded non-forged eyebolts.  Is there a pool going for when the first one falls on to a patron?
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 16, 2015, 10:25:05 pm
I could write numbers on the bottoms of each cab and we could draw squares.
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Len Zenith Jr on September 16, 2015, 10:29:59 pm
Are you stuck there? I'd run a strip of gaffers tape down one row of the planars for starters. Then on the DJ rig I'd pull the plug on 2/3rd's of those speakers only leaving the ones on every 20 feet or so. No mention of subs so maybe only play Jonny Cash?

srry, just trying to polish a turd
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 16, 2015, 11:01:19 pm
Haha. Yeah. There are the required CV horn subs for the dance floor.

The music pa has a bunch of 218's under the stage. They are homebrew and not that great!
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: David Allred on September 17, 2015, 07:29:22 am
Those eye-bolts are not rated for load (SWL, WLL, etc), but even if they were, they have no shoulder.  Even if they were, that load rating is reduced to 25% because they are pulled at 90 degrees.  Even if they were, they are extended away from the wall, applying even more torque on the body.  I could mostly forgive if not for the extended eyes.
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: paul bell on September 17, 2015, 07:48:10 am
I run into disasters like this all the time. I'm often asked to propose a sound system for install and I'm the highest bidder. The guy that gets it was doing car stereos six moths ago OR he's a DJ/promoter who has a Bose stereo at home so he "knows pro audio" and gets his stuff from some DJ store that sells black duct tape and calls it gaffers tape.

After they do their install and the sound is horrible, the client calls me to help "make it right". Of course, they've spent their sound budget already so there's no funds for me to fix it.

I constantly see guys using Bose in-ceiling speakers with 2" drivers or those crappy EV EVID speakers. Even flown EON cabinets.

Making things worse is venue owners that get credit at Guitar Center and have their gear for "no money now" and have an electrician do the install. They buy what GC pushes them into because it's in stock and it's always terrible. Crossover? Sure just turn these knobs until it sounds right!
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Thomas Le on September 17, 2015, 11:30:44 am
Are these the same guys? http://www.clearlakeaudio.net/
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Brandon Scopel on September 17, 2015, 11:52:58 am
Are these the same guys? http://www.clearlakeaudio.net/

Looks like it, I couldn't find the particular one that is at Tim's location since the website sucks, but the specs are entertaining. They are all class AB amped.
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Luke Geis on September 17, 2015, 04:37:42 pm
I don't mind the ceiling speaker options these days. EV EVID, JBL Control, and even some of the Bose stuff actually does quite well when used as it is intended. Now I'm not saying you should be trying to host parties and have loud music with them, but for the purpose of playing background music they can be tuned to work.

Now getting to the topic at hand...... I will never understand the propensity for people to jump the gap simply for the looks of something? Not that I like ugly looking speakers that sound amazing, but a speaker pretty much looks the same no matter what. If your going to do something, you may as well do it right. Selling the farm to acquire equipment that is not of a known level of quality and spec is a huge gamble.
Title: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 17, 2015, 04:40:16 pm
Are these the same guys? http://www.clearlakeaudio.net/


Yes. These guys have built a ton of pa's "to order". I will assume thats what these were.

All the stuff they sell on the website is self powered I think. I've seen those too and they are just as bad. In fact I've seen several of those where the amp module is loose and falling out.


And I've seen them spell their name with a K and a C. I don't know which is right. I've also seen "Claud" which stands for Clear Lake AUDio.
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: duane massey on September 18, 2015, 12:22:49 am
The Houston area has had a long list of dubious sound "manufacturers". There have been a few good ones over the years but certainly a whole lot of very bad companies.
If this was the 60's or the early 70's I'd be a little less critical, as we all built some strange things. I still build some "strange" things, but I know I am an anachronism. What club was this, Tim?
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Tim Weaver on September 18, 2015, 02:49:48 am
Its Cowboys and Coaches in Tyler.

I still run into some Core DJ rigs out here on the road. There's one in Stillwater, and another in Huntsville.


I see some of Opti-Dave's work pretty often as well! His stuff is built like an outdoor masonry latrine!
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Scott Carneval on September 18, 2015, 09:21:24 am
You win.

I thought I'd worked on some crappy PA's, but this definitely takes the cake
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: duane massey on September 18, 2015, 10:48:22 am
I still get calls from time to time to do minor service work on some of the old Core installs. There are probably still 40 or 50 subs here in the Houston area still in service. When Core shut down most of the clients still had my number. Ah, the old days, never really left.
Title: Re: Club Comb Filter
Post by: Jeff Bankston on September 18, 2015, 06:14:21 pm
The ribbons are so the audiopile people are happy knowing the speakers have "real" drivers in them...... audiopiles.