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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Wireless and Communications => Topic started by: Diogo Nunes Pereira on August 31, 2015, 05:26:00 pm

Title: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Diogo Nunes Pereira on August 31, 2015, 05:26:00 pm
Hi there.

One of my clients wants to buy a new wireless comms system. We mostly do corporate gigs in hotels and convention centers, and have been somewhat happy with the HME Pro850 he owns. I wouldn't recommend him a second one though... (To tricky to program from the front panel, etc...)

We rented the Telex BTR-800 a few times and I was happy with it. Both this systems have excellent range, being in the UHF range, and that's important: Someone can leave the room and still listen to the show caller...

What would you guys buy nowadays? Any good suggestions on new (or old) systems that work fine and can be used in conjunction with regular 2-wire systems?

Any help from this panel of experts is fully appreciatted. Thank you in advance.

Cheers,

Diogo

(EDIT 1)

Sorry... should have searched the forum first. Some old post illuminated my doubts. Cheers
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Scott Helmke on September 01, 2015, 08:27:42 am
BTR is still popular, but has limited tuning range by today's standards. Pick your frequency blocks carefully before buying!

On the way more expensive end there is RAD's UV-1G system. Functionally very similar to BTR, but the base station can transmit over the whole UHF television range while the beltpacks transmit down in VHF. Also the RF works a bit differently, making it possible to tune the beltpack transmit frequencies much closer together.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Pete Erskine on September 01, 2015, 09:29:56 am
BTR is still popular, but has limited tuning range by today's standards. Pick your frequency blocks carefully before buying!

BTR is discontinued as well as HME  850.  Clear-Com still has some BTR in stock I think if you still want it.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Keith Broughton on September 01, 2015, 09:37:36 am
BTR is discontinued as well as HME  850.  Clear-Com still has some BTR in stock I think if you still want it.
We had a chance to use BTR800, BTR80N, and Tempest 2.4 and 900 systems on the same gig and I will have to admit that the best sound quality is still the BTR800.
The range on the Tempest was by far the best and the remote progamming was handy.
HME850 is a pain to program.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on September 01, 2015, 11:10:11 am
FreeSpeak II is the current winner IMO.

Sounds very nearly as good as BTR, all the clever programming features of Tempest and then some. Up to 20 beltpacks and 10 antennae per base station, much more capacity if you use matrix cards.

The downside is, its expensive
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Diogo Nunes Pereira on September 01, 2015, 11:15:22 am
BTR is still popular, but has limited tuning range by today's standards. Pick your frequency blocks carefully before buying!

First off, thank you for your replies... I did found searching old posts yesterday that the BTR-800 is still favored by many. I used it a bunch of times over the years with good results and last year we built a system with 12 full-duplex beltpacks (3 base stations) for a Cirque du Soleil show in Andorra with Shure splitters/combiners/fins and it worked just fine for 2 months. We rented the same setup for this year.

BTR is discontinued as well as HME  850.  Clear-Com still has some BTR in stock I think if you still want it.

I guess you mean Telex still has some in stock, right? To bad it is being discontinued... Is the Clear-Com WBS-680 the same as a Telex BTR; they do look a lot like one another?

Quote
On the way more expensive end there is RAD's UV-1G system.

Us being based in Barcelona, Spain, I think we can't buy this for now...

I did found some love/hate regarding the DX210... but it seemed that most of the problems people experienced were when other FHSS systems were around. And the Jands article illuminated me a bit on options when out-of-the plenary coverage is needed. Thanks for pointing it all out in previous posts, Pete.

The range on the Tempest was by far the best and the remote progamming was handy.
HME850 is a pain to program.

The Tempest seems to have disappeared from the Clear-Com webpage... The Pro850 is still there though. It's a pain to program, but I do like the 850. But the boss experience is that I'm the only one, though... not complaining about it when returning from a gig.

But I do exercise care in coordinating the 850 frequencies with other RF systems we have for the show,  I reprogram all the belt packs, I run the HME software online on my laptop to compensate and monitor levels between the wired-PL and the 850, etc... And I find the coverage quite good; I can go for a bio-break during a session in most Barcelona venues and still listen to program or the show-caller.

This particular company's director is fine with spending money when value is due, he just wants something that works, with little setup time and no special expertise. The BTR has that.

He's considering the Free-Speak II (which may not be precisely plug-and-play) because it's new (and he likes new stuff - don't we all?) but I don't know much about it...

How is DECT coverage compared to older analog systems. Should we go for the 1900MHz or the 2.4GHz version?

Thank you.

Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Diogo Nunes Pereira on September 01, 2015, 11:28:27 am
FreeSpeak II is the current winner IMO.

Sounds very nearly as good as BTR, all the clever programming features of Tempest and then some. Up to 20 beltpacks and 10 antennae per base station, much more capacity if you use matrix cards.

The downside is, its expensive

Thank you Chris...

I was writing as you posted!

Cheers,

D
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Cameron Stuckey on September 05, 2015, 01:50:10 pm
BTR is discontinued as well as HME  850.  Clear-Com still has some BTR in stock I think if you still want it.

Pete, where did you hear the BTR has been discontinued? I know Tempest was discontinued earlier this August but haven't heard anything about BTRs.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Henry Cohen on September 05, 2015, 08:14:38 pm
Pete, where did you hear the BTR has been discontinued? I know Tempest was discontinued earlier this August but haven't heard anything about BTRs.

Tempest is not being discontinued: Clear-com is simply not distributing it any longer. Coach Com is still manufacturing and selling it. 
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Cameron Stuckey on September 05, 2015, 08:58:11 pm
Tempest is not being discontinued: Clear-com is simply not distributing it any longer. Coach Com is still manufacturing and selling it.
Thanks Henry, that's more information than I got from the Clear-Com announcement. I read "Clear-Com is discontinuing sales and marketing of the Tempest product line." and took it to mean EOL.

Still curious about the BTR.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Henry Cohen on September 05, 2015, 09:34:20 pm
Thanks Henry, that's more information than I got from the Clear-Com announcement. I read "Clear-Com is discontinuing sales and marketing of the Tempest product line." and took it mean EOL.

Still curious about the BTR.

AFAIK, Bosch has not issued an EOL for the BTR 700/800 . . . yet. But they have only a limited amount of certain orphaned parts left.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: amos bokobza on September 26, 2015, 05:42:39 am
What is better telex 800 or telex 80n

Thanks


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Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Henry Cohen on September 26, 2015, 09:20:06 am
Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Pete Erskine on September 26, 2015, 10:30:32 am
Thanks Henry, that's more information than I got from the Clear-Com announcement. I read "Clear-Com is discontinuing sales and marketing of the Tempest product line." and took it to mean EOL.

Still curious about the BTR.

No definitive info on BTR discontinued - just an industry rumor.

Another good possibility is the New HME DX-410 system shipping in a month or 2.  It is similar to the DX210 systems except with double the audio BW, 2 real 4 wire connections, and smaller (if that's possible) beltpacks.

Of note: the 2 wire and 4 wire can work simultaneously.  This means it can serve as a hybrid on your matrix system to 2 wire as well as interfacing itself.

It can have 15 BP on one base with same limitation of 4 talking at same time.  Still is in 2.4 band but of all the 2.4 comm systems (Tempest, etc) it works the best in congested wifi. 

See press release  HERE (http://www.bubblesqueak.co.uk/clear-com-launches-dx410-2-4ghz-digital-wireless-intercom-system/)

Freespeak II would be even better as long as you are not a rental house - permanent install only.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Andrew Broughton on September 26, 2015, 04:46:11 pm
Any idea of pricing yet on the DX410?
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Chris Johnson [UK] on September 28, 2015, 09:31:31 am
Freespeak II would be even better as long as you are not a rental house - permanent install only.

I respectfully disagree with this.

Several major events have recently involved large amounts of FS II (Baku, Comm. Games, to name but 2), and I quite regularly deploy it on a rental basis. It works very well indeed.

As with everything RF, you need to know your environment, but I wouldn't rule it out of a rental environment.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Andrew Broughton on September 28, 2015, 11:54:35 am
Thanks, Pete! with the pricing the same as the 210, is there any reason to not go for the 410 system?
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Pete Erskine on September 28, 2015, 11:55:51 am
What is better telex 800 or telex 80n

I often have both on a job.  The 80N doesn't sound quite as good as the 800.  Additionally the 80N, since it is more software controlled, is harder to use.  On the 800 buttons select what interface and what gain to use. on the 80N you do it through menus.

You would think since the 80N is more software oriented, you could program it from a computer.  Amazingly it cannot.

On the beltpack there are many more settings which get in the way of normal use.  On an 800 it takes only a few button pushes to chane freq the 80N over 10 to do it and get out of the menu.

Personally I don't like the 80N.  My favorite UHF comm is the HME Pro850.  Unfortunately it has reached end of life and is not available any more.

Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Pete Erskine on September 28, 2015, 11:56:45 am
Thanks, Pete! with the pricing the same as the 210, is there any reason to not go for the 410 system?

NO.  Haven't tested the 410 yet though....
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Pete Erskine on September 28, 2015, 02:52:45 pm

Any idea of pricing yet on the DX410?

Slightly more than the DX210. With 4 bp
and headsets they are around $10,200


Pete Erskine
917-750-1134
peterskine@aol.com
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Andrew Broughton on September 28, 2015, 03:05:46 pm
How does that compare with the pricing of the UV-1G?
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Pete Erskine on September 28, 2015, 03:15:10 pm
I respectfully disagree with this.

Several major events have recently involved large amounts of FS II (Baku, Comm. Games, to name but 2), and I quite regularly deploy it on a rental basis. It works very well indeed.

As with everything RF, you need to know your environment, but I wouldn't rule it out of a rental environment.

I agree, for the most part it works well, as long as you can do a site scan in advance and determine that the DECT spectrum is safe. 

Wait until you come across a venue with DECT phone service.  It will barely work then.  That is why I say for a rental house it is dangerous.  Of the dozen events we have used it on only 1 was a problem.  The DECT phone system prevented using FSII except for 4 beltpacks.  Luckily we had a full BTR system with us as well or the job would have been a failure.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Pete Erskine on September 28, 2015, 03:20:14 pm
How does that compare with the pricing of the UV-1G?

Maybe Henry Cohen can provide a cost for the UV-1G.  I am sure it is more expensive.  Designed to be a 6 beltpack system the base is more.  The audio quality of the UV-1G is vastly superior to the DX410 even with the 7k BW.  Additionally UHF/VHF penetrates your venue well where as 2.4GHz does not.

But to compare the DX410 price was for 4 Beltpacks, Base, double batteries, charger with light weight headsets.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Henry Cohen on September 28, 2015, 07:39:38 pm
Maybe Henry Cohen can provide a cost for the UV-1G.  I am sure it is more expensive.  Designed to be a 6 beltpack system the base is more.  The audio quality of the UV-1G is vastly superior to the DX410 even with the 7k BW.  Additionally UHF/VHF penetrates your venue well where as 2.4GHz does not.

But to compare the DX410 price was for 4 Beltpacks, Base, double batteries, charger with light weight headsets.

MSRP for a six drop UV-1G system with rechargeable batteries and charger is about $33k.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Henry Cohen on September 28, 2015, 07:50:37 pm
I agree, for the most part it works well, as long as you can do a site scan in advance and determine that the DECT spectrum is safe. 

Wait until you come across a venue with DECT phone service.  It will barely work then.  That is why I say for a rental house it is dangerous.  Of the dozen events we have used it on only 1 was a problem.  The DECT phone system prevented using FSII except for 4 beltpacks.  Luckily we had a full BTR system with us as well or the job would have been a failure.

The 1.8/1.9GHz unlicensed PCS frequency band in Europe is quite different from that in the US, both in terms of allocated bandwidth (20MHz for the UK vs 10MHz in the US) as well as those adjacent channel spurious emissions spilling over into this unlicensed PCS band (ETSI standards versus FCC). As a result, the user experience and usability of FSII in the UK, and Europe on the whole, is probably significantly less troublesome, propagation issues of this high a frequency range and co-channel EMI/RFI (courtesy of your friendly neighborhood video department) notwithstanding.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Elliot Carroll on November 22, 2015, 06:37:18 pm
Wait until you come across a venue with DECT phone service.  It will barely work then.  That is why I say for a rental house it is dangerous.  Of the dozen events we have used it on only 1 was a problem.  The DECT phone system prevented using FSII except for 4 beltpacks.  Luckily we had a full BTR system with us as well or the job would have been a failure.


Pete, where was the venue that had the DECT interference you experienced?  Just curious.  Also, anybody else know of any venues they have encountered where DECT phone service was in use and posed a problem for FS II?
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: Pete Erskine on November 22, 2015, 07:29:13 pm

Pete, where was the venue that had the DECT interference you experienced?  Just curious.  Also, anybody else know of any venues they have encountered where DECT phone service was in use and posed a problem for FS II?

Nashville Convention Center.  Only 4 of our 20 FSII Beltpacks would log on.  As part of my RF San project I have been checking for DECT usage in other venues.  So far The NCC has the only phone system.  Several have had Cell-Com in use but since this is a previous variant of FSII they might co exist.
Title: Re: Wireless Intercom recommendation anyone?
Post by: josh allman on December 12, 2015, 10:53:19 pm
Anyone know if the DX410 is shipping?


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