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Title: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 02:40:13 pm
Hubby's band is playing at a brand new bar this evening - it is the opening weekend and they have entertainment thurs, fri, sat and sun.
Chris dropped by last night to check it out because they had informed us that they provide in house PA………..
Yeah right……. so this is what he found….

The band set up in an area the size of my downstairs rest room. It was a 3 piece band and they were virtually standing on top of each other.

The 'in-house' PA is a small inadequate tannoy system which feeds the whole restaurant. No mixer, no monitors and you have to take a feed to the RCA inputs in the wall.
Well it was a disaster. The band plugged into the RCA inputs and nothing came through. The manager insisted on them not using their own PA so all they had was a JBL eon which they used as a monitor and the only sound the audience heard was  the reflection from it off the back wall.
The manager got upset with the band and kept attempting to turn the master levels up on their mixer. Of course, this made no difference and the band members got a little 'miffed' - as would I !!!

If this hadn't been a short notice gig and there had been more time, we would have cancelled there and then but we are obligated to play this evening - first time with the new agent and all.
Also, not allowed to take lights so dark stage……

I am SO not looking forward to this…...
So i messed around today and tried to get my alt out (mirror of L+R) to adapt to 2 rca cords that I have and the volume was unusable even at full output from the mixer and full gain at the powered speaker. I then switched to an aux out and HUGE difference. Lots of volume…….

I don't know much about 70v systems (if in fact this is what the bar has) but if I can get good gains from my aux out to the RCAs in the back of my speaker, will I be OK doing the same into their RCA panel at the venue??
I plan to use my 2 x DXR15's - (till someone tells me I can't use them - and I know I wont get away with a sub), and use aux out from the mixer adapted cords to RCA - into their panel.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Steven Eudaly on August 07, 2015, 02:52:32 pm
Good call on taking the DXRs regardless. Unfortunately there are so many unknown variables of what is between those RCA inputs and the wall the house speaker system to truly know if you'll get anything usable out of it. Sounds like the owner isn't one to let people do any investigation of their own on the system either.

I was put in a similar situation when a new wedding venue opened in town. They were so proud of their "state of the art" ceiling speaker system, the wouldn't let any vendors bring in their own gear.

My first time working there was to provide audio for a wedding ceremony and again, the owner wouldn't let me bring in my usual speaker system and forced my to tie in. During the rehearsal it very quickly became clear this was not going to work--family members hanging around already commenting how they couldn't hear--coverage was poor and I couldn't get any gain out of the system. Anyhow, after going back and forth for a while with the venue owner, I explained that I was working for my client, the bride and groom, and it was my job to fulfill my contract with them, so I brought in my speakers, which I had waiting in the van because I had a feeling this might happen, and everything went swell.

Next time I worked that room, the "house speaker system only" rule was no longer in place.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 07, 2015, 03:24:27 pm
Un-f***ing-plugged.

Sounds like a job for a strolling accordionist...

DR
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 03:36:28 pm
Un-f***ing-plugged.

Sounds like a job for a strolling accordionist...

DR

Sure does…
So when can you get here ?  ;)
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 03:38:19 pm
Good call on taking the DXRs regardless. Unfortunately there are so many unknown variables of what is between those RCA inputs and the wall the house speaker system to truly know if you'll get anything usable out of it. Sounds like the owner isn't one to let people do any investigation of their own on the system either.

I was put in a similar situation when a new wedding venue opened in town. They were so proud of their "state of the art" ceiling speaker system, the wouldn't let any vendors bring in their own gear.

My first time working there was to provide audio for a wedding ceremony and again, the owner wouldn't let me bring in my usual speaker system and forced my to tie in. During the rehearsal it very quickly became clear this was not going to work--family members hanging around already commenting how they couldn't hear--coverage was poor and I couldn't get any gain out of the system. Anyhow, after going back and forth for a while with the venue owner, I explained that I was working for my client, the bride and groom, and it was my job to fulfill my contract with them, so I brought in my speakers, which I had waiting in the van because I had a feeling this might happen, and everything went swell.

Next time I worked that room, the "house speaker system only" rule was no longer in place.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Yeah I have a bad feeling - unless he lets us use those DXRs….

He just texted the agent with a link to a couple of cables asking if these will work?? Male - yes male xlr to RCA……… oh boy……..
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 07, 2015, 03:57:36 pm
Sure does…
So when can you get here ?  ;)

As soon as the check clears...
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 04:02:31 pm
As soon as the check clears...

I promise to make you my special shepherds pie with the best gravy known to man!!
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: frank kayser on August 07, 2015, 04:04:30 pm
Un-f***ing-plugged.

Sounds like a job for a strolling accordionist...

DR

ROFL! 

Deb,
After last night's disaster, maybe the owner will have had a change of heart.  Here's hoping.  Come prepared.  Bring minimal lights, too.
By time Sunday finishes, I'm sure policies will be different.
frank
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on August 07, 2015, 04:06:20 pm
If it's a 70V don't boost the low bass...

JR
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 04:08:45 pm
ROFL! 

Deb,
After last night's disaster, maybe the owner will have had a change of heart.  Here's hoping.  Come prepared.  Bring minimal lights, too.
By time Sunday finishes, I'm sure policies will be different.
frank

Thanks Frank- the band last night threw up a tree of 4 LEDS and got asked to take them down after the first set…. I am taking 4 LEDS and putting them on the floor around the kit. If I get questioned, I'll swear blind they are only there for some light to read and be able to see the fretboards….
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 07, 2015, 04:20:57 pm
Owners, Agents and Bands

Owner to Agent:

I want live music, but they have to fit into our 30 square foot stage.  No floor space for any lighting stands and must use our X-finity satellite radio speaker system.  I'll pay $500/night.

Agent to Band:

I've got a gig for you.  Pay is $300/night, bring your own lights and small PA.

Owner to Band:

What's all this stuff?  You're already too loud just tuning up.

Agent to himself:

Hee hee hee hee hee.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 07, 2015, 04:23:54 pm
I promise to make you my special shepherds pie with the best gravy known to man!!

I had to cut shepherds out of my diet.  Too bony.

Send gravy.

DR
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 04:53:54 pm
If it's a 70V don't boost the low bass...

JR

What will happen if we do??…….. Chris normally goes direct (bass) but is using  small back line this evening to help with that. Will I just need to keep kick low??
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 04:54:56 pm
Owners, Agents and Bands

Owner to Agent:

I want live music, but they have to fit into our 30 square foot stage.  No floor space for any lighting stands and must use our X-finity satellite radio speaker system.  I'll pay $500/night.

Agent to Band:

I've got a gig for you.  Pay is $300/night, bring your own lights and small PA.

Owner to Band:

What's all this stuff?  You're already too loud just tuning up.

Agent to himself:

Hee hee hee hee hee.

OMG - you just nailed it Dick !! bahahahahaha….
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 04:55:30 pm
I had to cut shepherds out of my diet.  Too bony.

Send gravy.

DR

I find the staff gets caught in my throat also….
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Mac Kerr on August 07, 2015, 04:56:14 pm
What will happen if we do??…….. Chris normally goes direct (bass) but is using  small back line this evening to help with that. Will I just need to keep kick low??

If it is a 70V system the speakers will all have small transformers on them to raise their impedance. Those transformers will saturate early with too much low frequency signal. Usually 70V systems have some LF rolloff built in.

Mac
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 07, 2015, 04:57:52 pm
What will happen if we do??…….. Chris normally goes direct (bass) but is using  small back line this evening to help with that. Will I just need to keep kick low??

I would seriously consider having the proprietor sign a waiver saying he's been informed of the possibility of damage to his system by using it for live music and absolving you of any responsibility whatsoever.

No way I'd hook into that.  Disaster waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Stephen Kirby on August 07, 2015, 05:16:49 pm
Small Tannoy system as in a few stereo speakers scattered around the room?  Small PA speakers?  Ceiling speakers or little cubes?

RCA inputs should be consumer line level.  1V should drive them to whatever limits their home stereo or Radio Shack paging system can manage.

Is there any history of a band successfully using the "house PA"?
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 05:26:02 pm
Small Tannoy system as in a few stereo speakers scattered around the room?  Small PA speakers?  Ceiling speakers or little cubes?

RCA inputs should be consumer line level.  1V should drive them to whatever limits their home stereo or Radio Shack paging system can manage.

Is there any history of a band successfully using the "house PA"?

First gig was last night…..it is a franchise but I don't really want to mention what company. The GM called us personally today and said every bar in the franchise does things this way.  He was very anxious as tonight - like last night should be heaving. 90-120 minutes wait time and no room to breathe…..We were very professional and assured him we will do our best to work with him.

I would much rather use the alt outs to mirror LR - that way if I do need to supplement with my speakers, I'll be able to run both systems  from L and R faders. Problem was I just couldn't get any decent volume from the output when I tried it today. I got plenty from the mix out though. Does that sound right??
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 05:26:46 pm
If it is a 70V system the speakers will all have small transformers on them to raise their impedance. Those transformers will saturate early with too much low frequency signal. Usually 70V systems have some LF rolloff built in.

Mac



So no kick / some kick/ rolled off low frequency kick from the mixer???
Don't make me do it - I don't wanna !!!!
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 07, 2015, 05:28:08 pm
Small Tannoy system as in a few stereo speakers scattered around the room?  Small PA speakers?  Ceiling speakers or little cubes?

RCA inputs should be consumer line level.  1V should drive them to whatever limits their home stereo or Radio Shack paging system can manage.

Is there any history of a band successfully using the "house PA"?

So given the -10 consumer inputs and a Qu-16 feeding them, the 2-track feed should be a match.  Might need a balun in addition, but I always use one anyhow (EbTech Hum Eliminator) when hooking my gear into anyone else's system.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 07, 2015, 05:29:54 pm
First gig was last night…..it is a franchise but I don't really want to mention what company. The GM called us personally today and said every bar in the franchise does things this way.  He was very anxious as tonight - like last night should be heaving. 90-120 minutes wait time and no room to breathe…..We were very professional and assured him we will do our best to work with him.

I would much rather use the alt outs to mirror LR - that way if I do need to supplement with my speakers, I'll be able to run both systems  from L and R faders. Problem was I just couldn't get any decent volume from the output when I tried it today. I got plenty from the mix out though. Does that sound right??

No, it doesn't.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 05:30:32 pm
I would seriously consider having the proprietor sign a waiver saying he's been informed of the possibility of damage to his system by using it for live music and absolving you of any responsibility whatsoever.

No way I'd hook into that.  Disaster waiting to happen.

Probably not going to happen Dick….. the agent will be there too and we want to impress her- first gig through her and hoping for many more !!!
She is completely on board with this and understands the problems inherent with the in house system. She was there last night and witnessed the sham that it was…….She is working with us and so far we have a good relationship with her. 
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 05:33:42 pm
No, it doesn't.

I wondered if the output levels were very different….thia concerns me….Everything is packed up now but can you think why I would have got such low levels  from alt out? I have never even used alt out and a quick check showed the setting at LR. When I tried both configurations, I used the same cables and played the same iPod
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Stephen Kirby on August 07, 2015, 05:56:48 pm
Debbie, can you run the test tone generator and measure the AC voltage at each of the outs at 0VU on the meters?  I don't know the Qu but there may be some pad in there for recording outs into mic inputs or something.  Even if your meter integrates differently, comparing to your main outs would give a clue as to what might be inserted.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 07, 2015, 06:17:01 pm
I wondered if the output levels were very different….thia concerns me….Everything is packed up now but can you think why I would have got such low levels  from alt out? I have never even used alt out and a quick check showed the setting at LR. When I tried both configurations, I used the same cables and played the same iPod

The Alt Out jacks output level has a pot just below the 'phones pot.  Assign L+R as your feed and dial up the outfeed pot.  There's a "0" mark to indicate unity with the Mains fader, but you can dial it down as needed.

For this I'd seriously consider running a fairly stiff comp across the mains bus to avoid sending any surprises to the house.  I f they do this as a rule in their chain, I would suspect they may have something in line to safe the input level regardless of their use of  RCA's.

Good luck.  Don't choke on the staff.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Lee Douglas on August 07, 2015, 06:20:45 pm
If she's running two ALT OUTs, is it possible that she's getting cancellation combining the two of them into a mono 70V system?
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 07, 2015, 06:22:33 pm
If she's running two ALT OUTs, is it possible that she's getting cancellation combining the two of them into a mono 70V system?

That's why I said to choose L+R as the feed instead of LR.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 07, 2015, 06:42:52 pm
Leaving now - thanks peeps…….will try alt out….you guys are the bestest ever ever ever!!!
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 08, 2015, 12:02:50 pm
So...

How'd it go?
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 08, 2015, 12:25:55 pm
Report from last night...

I had some good quality  rca cables already which I connected via 1/4" to rca adaptors. I patched in from alt out and it worked !! (after I had a friend of mine point out a little volume knob for the alt out)…..
It looks like the band the night before did something wrong to patch in. However, the main problem is the fact that the in house system is completely inadequate as a band PA. I knew as soon as I patched in and tested with my iPod that the levels were far too low.
They allow no lights - I mean ZERO….but they don't provide any lighting at all. The band were in total darkness, couldn't read their notes or see their fretboards…….what a bloody mess !

They have these weird looking teardrop shaped speakers hanging from the ceiling - subs and tops.  I had the levels on the mixer in the red just to get some vocal heard but I couldn't get them anywhere near where they should be.

I had the GM turn his amps up to max and the mixer was still in the red. I had to sacrifice quality to get any kind of vocal to come through.  It was ridiculous……Vocals were drowned out the whole night.
The GM is aware of the problem and has some work to do. However, he is limited by Corporate policy and "All the other restaurants use the same system for bands and it works"……….Good news is that the new agent we worked with loved us and wa so happy we knew what we were doing. The GM also thanked us personally and said we saved the day.

AND we get to do it all over again this evening…Chris is standing in at the same place for a local band who we have run sound for many times - I spoke to the singer earlier today and gave her the good news !!!….AAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH……..
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Tim Weaver on August 08, 2015, 12:46:20 pm
This is a situation where a Bose L1 for a "bass rig" would be awesome. Set it on stage and run everything through it and just a taste of the mix in the ceiling speakers.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Scott Carneval on August 08, 2015, 02:46:07 pm
Man this sounds like a nightmare.  I've installed plenty of restaurant systems where I've provided a pair of XLR inputs for a potential band/DJ to use.  But these are intended to SUPPLEMENT the PA, not replace it.  It's more to get sound to the far side of the room, restrooms, patio, etc. and it's explained to the owner/manager.  I would be inclined to turn down any future gigs at this room and explain why.  If enough bands get on board maybe they'll change their tune.  Plus it's just not worth the stress.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 08, 2015, 04:44:50 pm
This is a situation where a Bose L1 for a "bass rig" would be awesome. Set it on stage and run everything through it and just a taste of the mix in the ceiling speakers.
Tim, they are ADAMANT and refuse to let us use ANY PA speakers of ANY kind on the stage - especially subs!. Never heard anything quite so odd in my life.
I also found out that the first band to deal with this on thursday (the one where they couldn't get the house system to work) not only had to use the JBL eon as their only PA all night but had set up a small lighting tree (4 LED slim pars) at the start of the night but were told to take it down after the first set….yeah - really !!
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 08, 2015, 04:49:31 pm
Man this sounds like a nightmare.  I've installed plenty of restaurant systems where I've provided a pair of XLR inputs for a potential band/DJ to use.  But these are intended to SUPPLEMENT the PA, not replace it.  It's more to get sound to the far side of the room, restrooms, patio, etc. and it's explained to the owner/manager.  I would be inclined to turn down any future gigs at this room and explain why.  If enough bands get on board maybe they'll change their tune.  Plus it's just not worth the stress.

Right ….I always thought that these types of in house systems were  made for just that reason - to supplement - not to carry the full PA sound. I'm wondering whether this is the GMs first gig doing this, has just come from corporate training and has got his wires crossed (pardon the pun). Maybe this is the company's intention but he got things wrong….
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 08, 2015, 04:57:41 pm
One more thing - I kinda shot myself in the foot really by getting the patch in to work properly. If it hadn't, we would have had no choice but to use my DXR12 speakers - yeah thought about that after I realized the in house system was inadequate…..
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Tim Weaver on August 08, 2015, 05:13:33 pm
Thats why the speaker is the "bass rig".

Its kinda the same way lots of big acts use a "vaporizer" when the hotel won't allow fog.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 08, 2015, 05:20:52 pm
Thats why the speaker is the "bass rig".

Its kinda the same way lots of big acts use a "vaporizer" when the hotel won't allow fog.

Sorry - missed that. I probably could have put one of the DSR12s on the stage area floor facing out to the side of Chris (bass player). He could then have put his processor rack on top of it and pretended it was part of his rig. If questioned why vocals were coming through, I could have argued it away by explaining that we always run some vocal through the bass rig …mmm ;D
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 08, 2015, 06:11:30 pm
What kind of volume do they get for their playback of background music the rest of the day?

Unless there's some kind of leveler in the chain or there's a mic left open on the emergency announcement circuit, they'll be limiting you to playback volume...which is probably around 80 dB max, if that.

Take the money and run.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Scott Olewiler on August 08, 2015, 06:40:25 pm
Did the GM explain the "No lights" policy? 

I would think the audience would have been complaining all night they couldn't hear or see the band.


I like the secret L1 rig idea. I can just imagine the Gm telling the other bands how your band makes it work.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Tim Weaver on August 08, 2015, 07:25:21 pm

Sorry - missed that. I probably could have put one of the DSR12s on the stage area floor facing out to the side of Chris (bass player). He could then have put his processor rack on top of it and pretended it was part of his rig. If questioned why vocals were coming through, I could have argued it away by explaining that we always run some vocal through the bass rig …mmm ;D

Thats the spirit!

Its always easier to beg forgiveness than it is to ask permission! Lol
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 08, 2015, 10:05:49 pm
Did the GM explain the "No lights" policy? 

I would think the audience would have been complaining all night they couldn't hear or see the band.


I like the secret L1 rig idea. I can just imagine the Gm telling the other bands how your band makes it work.

A story about chains/corporate entities:

Back in '77 I was recruited to play bass in a 5-piece bluegrass band that had landed a "plum" of a gig playing Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights at a downtown eatery/bar owned by a locally based but fairly international hotel/travel chain.  Downtown St Paul pretty much rolled up the sidewalks at the end of the 9-5 shift, so not much was happening, but after several weeks we were packing the place.

After several months of SRO crowds we were let go.  Turns out the corporation was running the chain at a loss for tax reasons to make their over-all balance sheet work out better.  When this particular one got successful in spite of their not having enough help to actually serve the customers, something had to be done.

No more live music...
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Bob Leonard on August 08, 2015, 11:49:44 pm
I had a similar thing happen to me as well Dick. Local bar looking to go chapter 7 that brought us in because we charged the most of all the bands in the area. Didn't work because we packed the place so after a couple of weeks we were out and a really bad DJ was brought in. They lasted another 4 months.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on August 09, 2015, 10:07:04 am
I had a similar thing happen to me as well Dick. Local bar looking to go chapter 6 that brought us in because we charged the most of all the bands in the area. Didn't work because we packed the place so after a couple of weeks we were out and a really bad DJ was brought in. They lasted another 4 months.
Isn't chapter 6 a singing group?

Bankruptcy comes in other flavors (chap 7, 11, 13).

======
I always have a hard time believing a company would try to lose money on purpose, while some sure look like they are trying. The government OTOH is another story.

JR
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Philip Roberts on August 09, 2015, 10:11:33 am
The GM called us personally today and said every bar in the franchise does things this way. 

As some one else mentioned I wonder if perhaps the GM is miss informed. Could you check out another franchise in this chain or get a forum member to do it for you?

Philip
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: frank kayser on August 09, 2015, 10:49:53 am
One more thing - I kinda shot myself in the foot really by getting the patch in to work properly. If it hadn't, we would have had no choice but to use my DXR12 speakers - yeah thought about that after I realized the in house system was inadequate…..
No good goes unpunished...
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 09, 2015, 10:03:22 pm
As some one else mentioned I wonder if perhaps the GM is miss informed. Could you check out another franchise in this chain or get a forum member to do it for you?

Philip

Perhaps - I don't think I should mention the name of the bar though but i'd be intrigued to find out if the GM does have it wrong.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Bill Hornibrook on August 10, 2015, 12:23:43 am
My brother recently moved to Reno, and a few months ago he gave me a tour of the clubs and casinos of the Reno-Tahoe area. There were bands in a lot of them, and they were all set up like Debbie is describing - perched on small stages, minimal lighting, running through quiet installs.

Their purpose was much like the artificial waterfalls that permeated these establishments: provide atmosphere, and not get in the way of the primary activity (gaming). Only two had actual dance floors, and no one was using them.

That said, the bands were all very good - which amazed me since they were playing what in reality was little more than background music.

The rooms were all set up in similar fashion - and it was all very deliberate.

So Debbie's situation was not unique, but I was wondering if (without mentioning it's name) if it was something like this.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Stephen Kirby on August 10, 2015, 12:29:41 pm
Stealth PA!  Reminds me of the day when we plugged the microphones into the 2nd channel of the guitar amps.  Maybe run modelers and everything direct including vocals into a stack of PA speakers, no conventional instrument amps.  So they don't know what is coming from what.  Miniature version of the Grateful Dead wall of sound.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on August 10, 2015, 12:35:39 pm
As some one else mentioned I wonder if perhaps the GM is miss informed. Could you check out another franchise in this chain or get a forum member to do it for you?

Philip

They don't want live music, they want live Muzak.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on August 10, 2015, 03:00:41 pm
They don't want live music, they want live Muzak.

That's elevator music right?…or as we say in the UK…lift music.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: frank kayser on August 10, 2015, 10:06:21 pm
That's elevator music right?…or as we say in the UK…lift music.
Murf and the Magic Tones - Blues Brothers

Hell, you can't blame a band for cashing in.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Bob Leonard on August 10, 2015, 10:18:58 pm
Isn't chapter 6 a singing group?

Bankruptcy comes in other flavors (chap 7, 11, 13).

======
I always have a hard time believing a company would try to lose money on purpose, while some sure look like they are trying. The government OTOH is another story.

JR


Don't make fun of my fat fingers. Fixed it for you.
Title: Re: Tonight's show - miniature scale
Post by: Scott Holtzman on August 11, 2015, 01:22:36 am
Murf and the Magic Tones - Blues Brothers

Hell, you can't blame a band for cashing in.
With fur covered tuck and roll.

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