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Title: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Steve Hurt on April 15, 2015, 06:45:09 am
Looks like Yamaha is finally replacing the LS9 level mixer

And they did iPad and iPhone apps (10 users!)


http://yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/product_detail.php?prodID=1167
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on April 15, 2015, 07:39:15 am
Very interesting.

The TF1 looks like a replacement for the venerable 01V96 also with 16x16, AND DCAs also. A Dante card, built in USB I/O for recording and playback. Very nice.


Edit: Ok, after watching the video I like what I see. I love the touch screen controls for the EQ and dynamics, I love the way you can drag the channels and scroll left and right, I love the look of the new StageMix app and I love the iPhone integration for personal mixing.


Edit 2: There's a slightly different video, albeit with the same info, over at the Yamaha Pro Audio website: http://yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/product_detail.php?prodID=1167
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: David Parker on April 15, 2015, 08:32:09 am
Ok, so now my LS9-16 just took another big cut in value!
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on April 15, 2015, 08:34:01 am
Pricing Please! I was eyeing an Si Performer but now this looks very interesting!

This would be a long shot fantasy but they would hit big if they price it ala x32.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Scott Helmke on April 15, 2015, 08:44:27 am
No idea what the pricing will look like, but this definitely looks like a push into the budget market.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on April 15, 2015, 09:02:38 am
No idea what the pricing will look like, but this definitely looks like a push into the budget market.
They haven't announced any new stageboxes, so I assume your choice for a digital snake is still Rio, which even if the surface is reasonably priced, means a digital snake solution is still going to be a bunch more than X32 or GLD.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on April 15, 2015, 09:10:15 am
They haven't announced any new stageboxes, so I assume your choice for a digital snake is still Rio, which even if the surface is reasonably priced, means a digital snake solution is still going to be a bunch more than X32 or GLD.

I think they just updated their page, but they are showing a Tio1608-D which is a 16x8 stagebox. Wonder how much that will cost also.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on April 15, 2015, 09:14:00 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNAmwI73Co (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNAmwI73Co)

Someone speculated $3000 USD for the TF1.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Lee Buckalew on April 15, 2015, 09:20:04 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNAmwI73Co (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNAmwI73Co)

Someone speculated $3000 USD for the TF1.

TF1 retail is $2950.00  MAP $2499.00

TF3 retail is $3500.00  MAP $2999.99

TF5 retail is $4200.00  MAP $3599.99

Don't know if they forgot the .99 on the MAP for the TF1 but those are the prices that I have from earlier this morning.


Lee
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on April 15, 2015, 09:20:15 am
I think they just updated their page, but they are showing a Tio1608-D which is a 16x8 stagebox. Wonder how much that will cost also.
Wow - that was really buried - it's way down in the product description.  They show Spring 2016 availability!?  Taking a page from Behringer's book there.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Lee Buckalew on April 15, 2015, 09:34:02 am
Wow - that was really buried - it's way down in the product description.  They show Spring 2016 availability!?  Taking a page from Behringer's book there.

It's in the new product announcement but, since it's 1st quarter 2016 they are not highlighting it yet.  Also the NY64-D Dante Interface Card was announced.  Same availability.  It's the new NY card series/form factor with 64x64 available in a single card slot.

Lee
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Scott Bolt on April 15, 2015, 09:37:28 am
TF1 retail is $2950.00  MAP $2499.00

TF3 retail is $3500.00  MAP $2999.99

TF5 retail is $4200.00  MAP $3599.99

Don't know if they forgot the .99 on the MAP for the TF1 but those are the prices that I have from earlier this morning.


Lee
Seems like a bit of a tough sell at nearly 2x the price of some of its competitors. 
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on April 15, 2015, 10:24:42 am
Seems like a bit of a tough sell at nearly 2x the price of some of its competitors. 

Si Expression is using the same pricing. They're selling pretty well considering their featureset on expandability.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on April 15, 2015, 10:43:21 am
TF1 retail is $2950.00  MAP $2499.00

TF3 retail is $3500.00  MAP $2999.99

TF5 retail is $4200.00  MAP $3599.99
This is the same MSRP that I was told this morning as well. My vendor has quoted me $3,200, $2,600, and $2,200 respectively for the TF series. Considering that the 01V96 was MAPed at $2,400 until just recently I think it's a competitive pricing structure.


Yamaha is already accepting orders and should begin shipping in May. I was hoping to hear that the TF1 was going to come in under two grand. But I'm sure we'll see a price reduction after they remove their hard pricing floor in a year, or maybe bundled with the TIO rack.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Stephen Kirby on April 15, 2015, 01:46:48 pm
Automotive designers are learning that touch screens are highly distracting and take a lot of attention to manipulate.  And are thus returning to discrete controls for many functions.  The pinch eq curves are great visual feedback on what you are doing, but will probably lead to more and more "head down" mixing.  Just my $.02
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Samuel Rees on April 15, 2015, 02:25:10 pm
The no dedicated EQ knobs is weird.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Luke Geis on April 15, 2015, 03:22:15 pm
It's not gonna be an LS9 replacement that's for sure. It looks more like a competitor to the Behringer X32, Midas M32 and Allen & Heath GLD line. It looks like it's made with lower quality parts. Even complete with combo inputs and RCA connections. No AES/EBU, no SPDIF, no digital in's or outs including options for external clocking and looks to be utilizing pre amps ( head amps ) borrowed and modified from their MG mixer line. The pricing seems about right. I would throw down on the TF1 if the price came down to 2k. I hate to say it, but the X32 compact and Rack versions are hard to beat at $1,200-1,700 respectively. With the Soundcraft Expressions getting down in the sub 2k region and A&H's QU series about the same, they have some work cut out for them. 
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jordan Wolf on April 15, 2015, 03:22:31 pm
Automotive designers are learning that touch screens are highly distracting and take a lot of attention to manipulate.  And are thus returning to discrete controls for many functions.  The pinch eq curves are great visual feedback on what you are doing, but will probably lead to more and more "head down" mixing.  Just my $.02
This is my concern as well - it's nice to see what the EQ looks like, but it's very easy to lose focus on how it actually sounds.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on April 15, 2015, 03:36:44 pm
Brochure's up on the page.

I just noticed that the max mix/input capacity is only 48, and they have a picture where they run 3 of the Tio1608-D's. Wonder if they can do fader flip on the GEQ's, might've missed that one...

Automotive designers are learning that touch screens are highly distracting and take a lot of attention to manipulate.  And are thus returning to discrete controls for many functions.  The pinch eq curves are great visual feedback on what you are doing, but will probably lead to more and more "head down" mixing.  Just my $.02

There's always the "Touch & Turn" knob...
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Scott Helmke on April 15, 2015, 05:48:05 pm
The no dedicated EQ knobs is weird.

I think it's proof that the Touch & Turn knob is a successful design element.

And yeah, there wasl a fair bit of "head down" mixing back in the analog days, to make sure I grabbed the correct knob. Or even "crouch down" mixing when I had to go for one of the monitor EQ's in the bottom of the rack.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Samuel Rees on April 15, 2015, 05:49:24 pm
Touch to turn is pretty slick I'll give you that - I admit I end up using touch to turn for EQ pretty frequently on my GLD, even with 8 EQ encoders on the surface.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 15, 2015, 06:05:00 pm
This is my concern as well - it's nice to see what the EQ looks like, but it's very easy to lose focus on how it actually sounds.

I don't have to look up to listen, but I may be in the minority.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Tim Weaver on April 15, 2015, 06:24:45 pm
I don't have to look up to listen, but I may be in the minority.


Yup. I can mix no matter where my head is pointed. Hell I even saw a blind guy mixing once. I wonder how he ever did it!
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on April 15, 2015, 06:35:58 pm
I don't have to look up to listen, but I may be in the minority.
What?! You're talking crazy talk there. Everyone knows that if you can't see something, then you can't hear it. Just ask every college lighting design professor.  ::)
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Cristian Good on April 15, 2015, 07:18:10 pm
Does anyone know if it will include the fade times for scene changes? Does the QL series have fade times?
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Stephen Kirby on April 15, 2015, 08:18:23 pm
Pros know what they need from the sound coming off the stage.  And can tweak a graphic or find a center frequency on a strip often without looking at it.  Or at least not staring at the panel for 60 seconds.  But I see a lot of folks in clubs entranced with digital board displays and completely unaware of what's going on on stage.  Anything that gets them to look up (or spend less time looking down) so I can get their attention is a good thing when my muso's hat is on.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on April 15, 2015, 08:40:40 pm
Maybe they'll offer a stripped down version without all the manufacturer tuned presets for those of us that know what we are doing, and save us a few bucks on the price too...  ::)
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Scott Bolt on April 15, 2015, 10:27:02 pm
Si Expression is using the same pricing. They're selling pretty well considering their featureset on expandability.
Just to put the pricing in context:

MIDAS M32R - $3000.00
Yamaha TF1 - $2500.00
Soundcraft Si Expression 1 $2500.00
Qu-16 - $2000.00
X32 Compact - $2000.00
X32 Producer - $1500.00

I think that both the TF1 and Si Expression are very close to the M32R in price.  Hard to justify not spending the extra $500 for a MIDAS console.

I do like several things about the TF line.  The combo plugs I think are actually a nice touch.  LCD scribble strips are very nice as well.

It just seems like Yamaha have put themselves in a tight market position...... nearly as expensive as a MIDAS mixer, and almost double the lower priced X32 Producer .... both rivals can be put into a 19" rack while the Yamaha doesn't appear to be able to do so (please correct me if I missed something here).

It appears this mixer will compete with the Si Expression and appeal to some of those would be buyers.  With its recording ability and LCD scribble strips, it actually has some advantages over the Si Expression.  Unfortunately, from where I currently stand, the Si Expression still enjoys a usability rating at the top of any of these consoles .... including the new TF.

Competition is good for the consumer.  I look forward to hearing how these new consoles sound out in the wild ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on April 15, 2015, 10:33:13 pm

Just to put the pricing in context:

MIDAS M32R - $3000.00
Yamaha TF1 - $2500.00
Soundcraft Si Expression 1 $2500.00
Qu-16 - $2000.00
X32 Compact - $2000.00
X32 Producer - $1500.00

I think that both the TF1 and Si Expression are very close to the M32R in price.  Hard to justify not spending the extra $500 for a MIDAS console.

I do like several things about the TF line.  The combo plugs I think are actually a nice touch.  LCD scribble strips are very nice as well.

It just seems like Yamaha have put themselves in a tight market position...... nearly as expensive as a MIDAS mixer, and almost double the lower priced X32 Producer .... both rivals can be put into a 19" rack while the Yamaha doesn't appear to be able to do so (please correct me if I missed something here).

It appears this mixer will compete with the Si Expression and appeal to some of those would be buyers.  With its recording ability and LCD scribble strips, it actually has some advantages over the Si Expression.  Unfortunately, from where I currently stand, the Si Expression still enjoys a usability rating at the top of any of these consoles .... including the new TF.

Competition is good for the consumer.  I look forward to hearing how these new consoles sound out in the wild ;)

At the bottom of the product page or in the brochure, they show a TF1 rackmounted.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Scott Helmke on April 15, 2015, 10:40:35 pm
Pros know what they need from the sound coming off the stage.  And can tweak a graphic or find a center frequency on a strip often without looking at it.  Or at least not staring at the panel for 60 seconds.  But I see a lot of folks in clubs entranced with digital board displays and completely unaware of what's going on on stage.  Anything that gets them to look up (or spend less time looking down) so I can get their attention is a good thing when my muso's hat is on.

Those people would mix just as badly on an analog rig.  Don't blame the tools.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Tim McCulloch on April 15, 2015, 10:59:16 pm
Pros know what they need from the sound coming off the stage.  And can tweak a graphic or find a center frequency on a strip often without looking at it.  Or at least not staring at the panel for 60 seconds.  But I see a lot of folks in clubs entranced with digital board displays and completely unaware of what's going on on stage.  Anything that gets them to look up (or spend less time looking down) so I can get their attention is a good thing when my muso's hat is on.

Why would you need my attention?  I'm mixing your house sound.  Unless the stage is on fire I probably don't need to see you.

Monitors?  We hire a person to do that. ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: John L Nobile on April 15, 2015, 11:03:59 pm
Why would you need my attention?  I'm mixing your house sound.  Unless the stage is on fire I probably don't need to see you.

Monitors?  We hire a person to do that. ;)

I like to watch the performance. Other people have to pay for that.
And I'd much rather watch a bad act than hear them lol.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Scott Bolt on April 15, 2015, 11:07:59 pm
Those people would mix just as badly on an analog rig.  Don't blame the tools.

Thanks!  It seemed like it might be small enough to rack mount if you removed the plastic molding on the sides.  That makes a great deal of sense.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Steve Hurt on April 15, 2015, 11:18:39 pm
If you're mixing on one of these, you're doing monitors.   
(someone else to mix monitors, what a concept.  You are spoiled! LOL)


And its always good to watch the stage, Otherwise you won't know till it's too late when Mr Shouty-pants and Miss Whisper switch mics, with one disappearing and the other one blowing up your tops.

(yeah I know, you have limiters too.  Tops are safe, just not the audience)


Why would you need my attention?  I'm mixing your house sound.  Unless the stage is on fire I probably don't need to see you.

Monitors?  We hire a person to do that. ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on April 15, 2015, 11:56:03 pm
And its always good to watch the stage, Otherwise you won't know till it's too late when Mr Shouty-pants and Miss Whisper switch mics, with one disappearing and the other one blowing up your tops.
If you are watching the stage, how do you keep up with your cues in the script?



Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Tim Padrick on April 16, 2015, 01:12:32 am
An X32 (the big one) can be had for under $2300 (+ shipping) ($2600+ shipping with case).  Hard to beat that for function or value.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Craig Leerman on April 16, 2015, 01:15:21 am


MIDAS M32R - $3000.00
Yamaha TF1 - $2500.00
Soundcraft Si Expression 1 $2500.00
Qu-16 - $2000.00
X32 Compact - $2000.00
X32 Producer - $1500.00

Don't forget the QSC TouchMix-16 - $1300

The Yamaha seems to offer presets and "simple" settings for novices and advanced (unlocked adjustment) settings for sound folks, very similar to what the QSC offers.

I like the "touch and Turn" concept. Roland's consoles also use a similar feature for adjustment.





Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Tim Weaver on April 16, 2015, 01:41:07 am
Don't forget the QSC TouchMix-16 - $1300

The Yamaha seems to offer presets and "simple" settings for novices and advanced (unlocked adjustment) settings for sound folks, very similar to what the QSC offers.

I like the "touch and Turn" concept. Roland's consoles also use a similar feature for adjustment.


I do however like the fact that the presets are for different microphones instead of "Kick", "Snare", "Male Vocal" etc.... I find myself using similar eq settings for a certain mic on a wide range of instruments rather than the other way around....


Not that I would ever need or want the presets, but at least it's a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Bob Leonard on April 16, 2015, 03:31:45 am
Where were all of these options when my feeble old mind went digital? Oh, that's right. They didn't exist.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Craig Montgomery on April 16, 2015, 04:13:36 am
I think it looks freaking awesome.  I would imagine these ideas are going to move up to some higher market level products too.

https://youtu.be/LRBjefV5koU
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Steve Hurt on April 16, 2015, 07:33:25 am
I've never worked with cues and a script so I really hadn't thought of that.  We do live in different worlds. 

I work with bands that often work without set lists and change up on the fly in order to work the crowd.  If I don't watch, they'll do something that basically pulls my pants down in front of the crowd.  I have to watch.

(and I was confused and thought I was replying to the Presonus thread as well!)


If you are watching the stage, how do you keep up with your cues in the script?
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Geri O'Neil on April 16, 2015, 08:25:13 am
What?! You're talking crazy talk there. Everyone knows that if you can't see something, then you can't hear it. Just ask every college lighting design professor.  ::)

I may be all wet here since I retired, but I always did like keeping my eye on that crazy lead singer that tended to run in front of the PA the second I had to look at an FX rack.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on April 16, 2015, 08:57:59 am
Don't forget the QSC TouchMix-16 - $1300

The Yamaha seems to offer presets and "simple" settings for novices and advanced (unlocked adjustment) settings for sound folks, very similar to what the QSC offers.

I like the "touch and Turn" concept. Roland's consoles also use a similar feature for adjustment.


Not to be nitpicky, but I wouldn't call the QSC Touchmix a true digital board, more of Digilogue because the gain/trim/HA is still manual like the DL1608 & SL.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Rob Spence on April 16, 2015, 10:26:33 am
It looks great.

Earlier in this thread there was a mention of May 2016? Was that a typo?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jeff Carter on April 16, 2015, 11:19:56 am
Earlier in this thread there was a mention of May 2016? Was that a typo?

Desks ship in Spring 2015, stage boxes and NY-64 card in Spring 2016.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: (Brian) Frost on April 16, 2015, 12:44:20 pm
one knob eq and one knob compressor is listed as a feature... I consider this a strong hinderance.  hopefully that 'feature' can be disabled for a more traditional big boy approach. 

It looks like an odd mix of prosumer and pro level desk at a price thats in between both as well.  Im a big ls9 fan but I dont see buying this.  QL looks worth the extra money.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on April 16, 2015, 01:11:15 pm
one knob eq and one knob compressor is listed as a feature... I consider this a strong hinderance.  hopefully that 'feature' can be disabled for a more traditional big boy approach. 

It looks like an odd mix of prosumer and pro level desk at a price thats in between both as well.  Im a big ls9 fan but I dont see buying this.  QL looks worth the extra money.

If you watched the videos or read the brochure, you can turn off the 1 knob feature and use the touchscreen or "Touch n Turn" knob to adjust full parameters.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Luke Geis on April 16, 2015, 01:56:49 pm
This is a digital version of the MG line. It has the preamps and the 1 knob compression from the MG line of entry level mixers. The touch-n-turn seems like a cool idea, but also seems cumbersome too. Now it takes two hands to do what 1 could do? Select the band, Q, or frequency and then turn the knob, or use two fingers on the tft screen. The touch -n-turn requires that you place your finger on one option while you turn a decoder with the other?
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on April 16, 2015, 02:12:11 pm
The touch-n-turn seems like a cool idea, but also seems cumbersome too. Now it takes two hands to do what 1 could do? Select the band, Q, or frequency and then turn the knob, or use two fingers on the tft screen. The touch -n-turn requires that you place your finger on one option while you turn a decoder with the other?
You can do it with the same hand, bouncing back and forth from the touch screen to the Touch-n-Turn knob.


I usually have my left hand on the faders or some other option and use my right hand for the TnT knob. This is what I do on the CL5. I find it faster and than using the on surface controls for things like basic EQ and compression settings. I really, really like the Touch n Turn feature of the CL5 and I think it will be great on the TF series.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Samuel Rees on April 16, 2015, 02:37:27 pm
I like that I can keep similar touch memory in my hand between digicos and GLD and etc because everyone has the T2T knob the right below the screen. So I can get on board with this I think. There are still those UD encoders.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on April 17, 2015, 11:19:29 am
Sweetwater's got official pricing.

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/musikmesse-2015-yamaha-tf-series-mixers/
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on April 17, 2015, 11:26:07 am
Sweetwater's got official pricing.

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/musikmesse-2015-yamaha-tf-series-mixers/ (http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/musikmesse-2015-yamaha-tf-series-mixers/)
Meh...those prices look like Sweetwater markups to me. I know you can get them for less as the quote that I got was from one of Sweetwater's main competitors.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Matt Lillie on April 17, 2015, 11:37:10 am
I may be all wet here since I retired, but I always did like keeping my eye on that crazy lead singer that tended to run in front of the PA the second I had to look at an FX rack.

RETIRED??!

And you may wanna 'splain to the young-uns on here what an "FX rack" is! :^)
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Mike Pyle on April 17, 2015, 11:54:58 am
Meh...those prices look like Sweetwater markups to me. I know you can get them for less as the quote that I got was from one of Sweetwater's main competitors.

It is MAP pricing. Like all of us, Sweetwater cannot ADVERTISE it at a lower price.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Stephen Kirby on April 17, 2015, 12:17:11 pm
Even more common than folks switching mics or lead singers climbing the stacks, are bands that can't mix themselves.  Especially at the club level.  Everyone playing at the same volume all the time.  So you have to watch what's going on and follow their on stage cues to bring up soloists and drop others down.  Not to mention constant more-me arm waving for the lounge lizards amongst us who don't get to have a dedicated monitor guy up there.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on April 17, 2015, 04:22:43 pm
It is MAP pricing. Like all of us, Sweetwater cannot ADVERTISE it at a lower price.
It's been my experience with Sweetwater that their retail prices are the same as their MAP prices. Part of the reason I stopped buying from them.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Samuel Rees on April 17, 2015, 08:17:27 pm
The all touch interface is a little line6 ish
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Bob Leonard on April 17, 2015, 10:55:40 pm
It's been my experience with Sweetwater that their retail prices are the same as their MAP prices. Part of the reason I stopped buying from them.

I can't think of anyone who hasn't had just the opposite experience. I spend a LOT of money with Sweetwater and they have always given me discounts that compete with anyone. All you have to do is ask. Two weeks ago I spent a grand on a pair of DI's for acoustic guitars. I called them at 3pm est, and had them the next morning at 10:30am est, no extra charge.

As for the board, good for Yamaha, who now has their own line to compete with Expression. I will say that I like the touch screen, and now I suppose it's time to wish the LS9 and 01V luck in their new purpose as door stops.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on April 18, 2015, 11:41:16 am
Manual is up on the website.

Some things I saw:
- No User permissions/security settings
- The assignable knobs can be chosen to control selected channel EQ so as to not wear out the "touch n turn" knob and avoid the touchscreen, in this case: knob 2 can be EQ gain, knob 3 can be EQ freq., and knob 4 be EQ width/Q. IMO I'd do knob 1 for channel HA.
- The GEQ is a mono, 12-band EQ. 31 bands are available but we can only adjust gain up to 12 bands.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Mark McFarlane on April 19, 2015, 07:48:38 am
...
- The GEQ is a mono, 12-band EQ. 31 bands are available but we can only adjust gain up to 12 bands.

An interesting way to stretch processing power, and probably not big negative.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: David Parker on April 19, 2015, 07:55:47 am
An interesting way to stretch processing power, and probably not big negative.
the GEQ on the LS9 were selectable that way, you could double the number of GEQs by using that mode. I used them on monitors and never needed more than 12 cuts/boosts.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Matt Vivlamore on April 19, 2015, 01:25:41 pm
Meh...those prices look like Sweetwater markups to me. I know you can get them for less as the quote that I got was from one of Sweetwater's main competitors.

I've noticed that Sweetwater tends to post higher prices before the product are distributed.  Well I noticed that with the iQ speakers. 
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Scott Bolt on April 19, 2015, 02:58:44 pm
An interesting way to stretch processing power, and probably not big negative.
I agree.  Very clever!
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Steve Hurt on April 19, 2015, 03:25:50 pm
Sweetwater's got official pricing.

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/musikmesse-2015-yamaha-tf-series-mixers/

Speaking of pricing, it looks like the only Cat5 on the mixer is for the router, so a card is going to be required to use Cat5 to feed a digital stage box. 

I'm very curious to know what the card and the stage boxes are going to cost

(if I read right) the stage boxes can be daisy chained, so one card should feed a pair of stage boxes
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Mac Kerr on April 19, 2015, 03:51:43 pm
(if I read right) the stage boxes can be daisy chained, so one card should feed a pair of stage boxes

If they follow the method of the other Dante consoles Yamaha makes you can daisy chain, but you lose the redundant network if you do that. Ideally you would have 2 switches at the stage end and connect them to the 2 Dante network ports on the console. Then you can have multiple stageboxes connected to the primary and secondary networks. There is a limit of 8 stageboxes on the CL series, I don't know if this applies to the smaller TF, or if there is a different limit, the card is 64ch, so I suppose you can use at least 4 16ch stageboxes.

Mac
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on April 19, 2015, 07:53:03 pm
If they follow the method of the other Dante consoles Yamaha makes you can daisy chain, but you lose the redundant network if you do that. Ideally you would have 2 switches at the stage end and connect them to the 2 Dante network ports on the console. Then you can have multiple stageboxes connected to the primary and secondary networks. There is a limit of 8 stageboxes on the CL series, I don't know if this applies to the smaller TF, or if there is a different limit, the card is 64ch, so I suppose you can use at least 4 16ch stageboxes.

Mac

Remember that TF3 & TF5 only can process up to 48 channels while TF1 can do 40.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Mac Kerr on April 19, 2015, 07:58:14 pm
Remember that TF3 & TF5 only can process up to 48 channels while TF1 can do 40.

But they can all access all 64 channels of Dante. Just because there are XLR inputs on your snake doesn't mean you use all of them all the time. With a Dante Controller preset change you could have multiple shows prepatched.

Mac
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Rob Spence on April 22, 2015, 11:44:45 pm
Speaking of pricing, it looks like the only Cat5 on the mixer is for the router, so a card is going to be required to use Cat5 to feed a digital stage box. 

I'm very curious to know what the card and the stage boxes are going to cost

(if I read right) the stage boxes can be daisy chained, so one card should feed a pair of stage boxes

The picture I looked at showed a built in Dante port (I thought) and a mini yga slot?


Edit: just checked. You do need a Dante card for a stage box but at least there is a new one not limited to 16x16 like the old ones.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on April 23, 2015, 01:53:21 am
Edit: just checked. You do need a Dante card for a stage box but at least there is a new one not limited to 16x16 like the old ones.
Not available until Spring 2016 though.  ???
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Steve Hurt on April 23, 2015, 07:12:16 am
Not available until Spring 2016 though.  ???

Stagebox isn't available till then either.  Guess it makes sense that they both are released at the same time. 

Until I know what the stagebox and the card cost, I have no idea what it really costs to own this mixer because a stagebox is not an option for me anymore, it's a requirement.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on April 30, 2015, 02:13:32 pm
The TF Editor is now available (for Windows, Mac version available this summer):

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/mixers/tf/downloads.jsp (http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/mixers/tf/downloads.jsp)
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on May 03, 2015, 03:15:13 pm
Sweetwater video: https://youtu.be/O4rt63bTcuk
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Alec Spence on May 03, 2015, 07:03:12 pm
Sweetwater video: https://youtu.be/O4rt63bTcuk

Only 3 LEDs per channel for the metering - shame on you Yamaha!
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Mac Kerr on May 03, 2015, 07:44:33 pm
Only 3 LEDs per channel for the metering - shame on you Yamaha!

Three LEDs are probably fine for use as a "signal present" meter. for setting input gain, where you may need a higher res meter, look at the channel view screen where there is a higher res meter, as there is on the dynamics screens as well.

Mac
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: brian maddox on May 03, 2015, 08:32:31 pm
Three LEDs are probably fine for use as a "signal present" meter. for setting input gain, where you may need a higher res meter, look at the channel view screen where there is a higher res meter, as there is on the dynamics screens as well.

Mac

i agree, at least kinda.  there's signal there, there's enough signal there, there's too much signal there, are really the three main things we're looking for when we look at meters anyway...

that being said, i do prefer something a little more informative.  but it beats the 01v/96 by having at least Some Kind of input meter LED...

Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on May 03, 2015, 09:14:44 pm
+1  Signal present and overload, is more than enough info... If you are mixing to meters... get more meters, but for finding signals and keeping between the ditches I used to get away with bi-color LEDs...

3 colors is icing on the cake.

JR
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: David Sturzenbecher on May 03, 2015, 09:27:29 pm
but it beats the 01v/96 by having at least Some Kind of input meter LED...

01V's have signal present and overload lights....
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Tim Padrick on May 04, 2015, 01:07:18 am
Need good meters?  Just fire up Studio Manager and select the Meters page.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jonathan Goodall on May 04, 2015, 01:28:34 am
Sweetwater video: https://youtu.be/O4rt63bTcuk

The rippling effect of the leds is a bit hard on the eyes.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjær on May 04, 2015, 02:13:18 am
The rippling effect of the leds is a bit hard on the eyes.

Sorry, if I'm totally missing a joke here, but if by "rippling effect" you mean the constant flashing/varying intensity of all the LEDs on the surface AND you're not being tongue-in-cheek: That's just an effect of the camera shutter. The console doesn't do that to the naked eye.

Again: sorry for potentially destroying a joke, but I felt it needed clarification.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jonathan Goodall on May 04, 2015, 02:28:40 am
Sorry, if I'm totally missing a joke here, but if by "rippling effect" you mean the constant flashing/varying intensity of all the LEDs on the surface AND you're not being tongue-in-cheek: That's just an effect of the camera shutter. The console doesn't do that to the naked eye.

Again: sorry for potentially destroying a joke, but I felt it needed clarification.

Yes, just the effect of the camera I know (tongue in cheek  :) ) but I don't instantly recall seeing any other video for other desks where it has done that.   ???
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on May 07, 2015, 01:17:12 pm
Mixers are now shipping.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Guy Graham on May 07, 2015, 04:12:20 pm
Need good meters?  Just fire up Studio Manager and select the Meters page.

If I were shopping for an inexpensive digital desk, I'd be looking for one that offered an Avid-style monitor output and bracket option - so as to easily access such additional metering displays, plus other information I wanted to enlarge and view without having to dedicate a tablet or laptop as a workaround.

None of these good value digital desks seem to offer what to me seems like an obvious feature, which if added would differentiate that product from similarly-priced competitors.

I've mentioned this before and been told that an X32 (this was given as an example) does not use the type of processor that allows designers to easily tap off a video feed. Hence including that feature on that desk apparently would significantly add to the cost.

Unfortunately I'm not technically qualified to determine this myself. But it would make sense that even if such was easy to implement, such functions would probably form part of feature sets that differentiate products across a broad range, so leaving it off the less expensive products makes marketing sense.

My experience of the larger Qu series Allen & Heath desks is that the little touchscreen included has to cover many bases, hence things get rather crowded. If I were to buy or recommend one, I'd want a dedicated iPad as a necessity - to take the strain off the built-in touchscreen that has to cover everything from scribble and channel strip info, through regular multiple functions, to detailed metering.

If there was a DVI output and optional mounting bracket for the chassis, it would provide a much neater and simpler solution for any display that didn't require touchscreen functionality - metering being one important example.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Chris Edwards on May 07, 2015, 05:55:56 pm
So is there an IOS app available for this mixer yet?  I did a search and only found one for the QL Line.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Robert Lofgren on May 07, 2015, 06:47:40 pm
I've mentioned this before and been told that an X32 (this was given as an example) does not use the type of processor that allows designers to easily tap off a video feed. Hence including that feature on that desk apparently would significantly add to the cost.
While the x32 doesn't have a direct video output feed, the x-edit application have a presentation mode.

In this mode x-edit follows the LCD. This is great as a backup if the LCD should die due to something being dropped on it or similar damage.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on May 14, 2015, 12:46:53 pm
App now available: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tf-stagemix-us/id990714037?mt=8
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on May 25, 2015, 09:46:24 pm
Anyone got the console yet?

- How is the lag on the touchscreen?
- How are the preamps?

Deciding between this (with remote stageboxes) or refurb Performer 3 (with remote stageboxes) OR S21 (damn, $7k for a DiGiCo?!!). I'm a "weekender"/got a day job so the full stageboxes or the S21 might be overkill, but it'd be "nice to have".
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Rob Spence on May 25, 2015, 10:43:20 pm
Anyone got the console yet?

- How is the lag on the touchscreen?
- How are the preamps?

Deciding between this (with remote stageboxes) or refurb Performer 3 (with remote stageboxes) OR S21 (damn, $7k for a DiGiCo?!!). I'm a "weekender"/got a day job so the full stageboxes or the S21 might be overkill, but it'd be "nice to have".

What about the preamps?
And how do you propose measure it? None of the digital desks have a way to listen to the preamps.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on June 02, 2015, 06:38:52 pm
What about the preamps?
And how do you propose measure it? None of the digital desks have a way to listen to the preamps.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Nothing scientific, just from a "weekender" perspective.

There's a playlist from Yamaha detailing the features of the board, though Andy's enthusiasm scares me.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3rjqgoqj7LJLzdKlbYWrjmEzKQiPAHm7
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: soundpad on June 09, 2015, 12:14:24 am
I think it's proof that the Touch & Turn knob is a successful design element.

And yeah, there wasl a fair bit of "head down" mixing back in the analog days, to make sure I grabbed the correct knob. Or even "crouch down" mixing when I had to go for one of the monitor EQ's in the bottom of the rack.


Their ad blurb says" Design meets Intuition"   - rubbish. It is the most non-intuitive of all in that class  and , the "One-Touch" eq thing seems straight out of spinal tap. .. er , yeah, well I have this sound for the kick drum , so , if I need more, i just turn this knob here..... very weird indeed. It would be great if the four knobs were indeed, bass, low-mid, hi-mid, treble boost/cut - now that would be intuitive.
Title: Real names are required
Post by: Craig Leerman on June 09, 2015, 02:36:51 am
soundpad

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real full name as required by the posting rules clearly displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions (http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/board,36.0.html) in the Forum Announcements section.

Thanks
Craig
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Kent Clasen on June 09, 2015, 09:23:03 am
Nothing scientific, just from a "weekender" perspective.

There's a playlist from Yamaha detailing the features of the board, though Andy's enthusiasm scares me.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3rjqgoqj7LJLzdKlbYWrjmEzKQiPAHm7

I did a quick <90sec video overview for those interested. It has a few quirks for sure, some ppl may or may not like. Pro/con the UI is NOT like LS/M7/QL/CL so you have to think differently. I found it easy after going through a typical setup- it has some newbie type features- some handy/quick=libraries/naming, some defeatable=1 knob, mixed with some more pro=DCA spill/custom layer, TF1 can mix 32 mono inputs.  Soon every mixer will have a touch screen- swiping and tapping is much easier than finding a knob.

http://www.msmsystemsinc.com/new/2015/6/6/yamaha-tf-mixer-review-90-secs.html

Full disclosure, we are a dealer, but also for most every other digi mixer...
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Rob Spence on June 09, 2015, 10:25:52 am
I have been unable to find a document that describes the various libraries.
I need to know if ducking is included and also about the capabilities of side chains.

For example, on the LS9, there is ducking but you can only select a subset of the buses for the side chain.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jeff Foster on June 09, 2015, 10:31:13 am
I'm finding that pretty much all the negative towards this mixer is from people who have never touched one, or even bothered to watch the videos about how it works.  There are so many comments about how people don't like the one-knob stuff, but those people don't seem to realize that the one knob is defeatable and you can have full control over all EQ and Dynamics parameters just like on any other console.  The one knob is an option; not the rule.

Further, I have talked to people that thought the mixer wasn't "good enough" or just didn't like it, and then completely changed their mind once they actually played with one for a few minutes.  Admittedly, I had some concerns initially, but after downloading ad playing with the PC editor, I found that this mixer is actually pretty incredible.  The swipe motions are very natural for anyone who has ever used a smartphone or tablet.  There are a few features that it is missing* that you'd have to step up a level or two to get, but honestly Yamaha made a pretty nice mixer at an amazing price point.  Those features would be pretty rarely used at this level of customer anyway.

Soon every mixer will have a touch screen- swiping and tapping is much easier than finding a knob.

This is my view as well.  I think this is just the beginning and we will see this type of touchscreen interface becoming more and more common.  We're already seeing it in some small surfaceless mixers, but I think it's going to become more prevalent, even in the large format stuff.  The large format stuff may retain more physical controls for those who prefer that option, but the touch screen swipe style interface will be there too.  The smaller stuff will continue to go to more screen centered mixing with fewer physical controls.  (Though I don't want to go completely faderless, myself).

*Things like matrices, output delays, and soft patching inputs, for example.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jeff Foster on June 09, 2015, 10:33:05 am
I have been unable to find a document that describes the various libraries.
I need to know if ducking is included and also about the capabilities of side chains.

Rob, I don't remember seeing anything like that in the PC editor.  You can download it for free from yamaha if you want to play with the console settings without actually having a console.

Edit to add:  Just checked, I don't see any side chain options on the dynamics for any of the input channels or output buses.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Rob Spence on June 09, 2015, 11:44:06 am
I'm finding that pretty much all the negative towards this mixer is from people who have never touched one, or even bothered to watch the videos about how it works.  There are so many comments about how people don't like the one-knob stuff, but those people don't seem to realize that the one knob is defeatable and you can have full control over all EQ and Dynamics parameters just like on any other console.  The one knob is an option; not the rule.

Further, I have talked to people that thought the mixer wasn't "good enough" or just didn't like it, and then completely changed their mind once they actually played with one for a few minutes.  Admittedly, I had some concerns initially, but after downloading ad playing with the PC editor, I found that this mixer is actually pretty incredible.  The swipe motions are very natural for anyone who has ever used a smartphone or tablet.  There are a few features that it is missing* that you'd have to step up a level or two to get, but honestly Yamaha made a pretty nice mixer at an amazing price point.  Those features would be pretty rarely used at this level of customer anyway.

This is my view as well.  I think this is just the beginning and we will see this type of touchscreen interface becoming more and more common.  We're already seeing it in some small surfaceless mixers, but I think it's going to become more prevalent, even in the large format stuff.  The large format stuff may retain more physical controls for those who prefer that option, but the touch screen swipe style interface will be there too.  The smaller stuff will continue to go to more screen centered mixing with fewer physical controls.  (Though I don't want to go completely faderless, myself).

*Things like matrices, output delays, and soft patching inputs, for example.

My concerns with the one knob are that you cannot look at the stage while adjusting. Actually the LS9 kinda has that too in that you only have 3 knobs and must select the frequency band.

Another is seeing the display and indicators while outside. You must see it to make changes.

Lastly, touch screens (including this iPad) are a pain if your hand starts sweating in hot weather.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jeff Foster on June 09, 2015, 12:07:56 pm
My concerns with the one knob are that you cannot look at the stage while adjusting. Actually the LS9 kinda has that too in that you only have 3 knobs and must select the frequency band.

I get that.  You also have the User defined knobs which can be set to EQ Gain, Freq, and Q thereby having similar controls to the LS9 or QL series.

Another is seeing the display and indicators while outside. You must see it to make changes.

Lastly, touch screens (including this iPad) are a pain if your hand starts sweating in hot weather.

Totally agree with both those observations.  The LEDs and displays were very bright when I played with one in the store.  They were brighter than I expected.  Though sunlight is always a challenge no matter how bright the indicators are.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Kent Clasen on June 09, 2015, 08:09:13 pm
Obviously these are very new, but does any mfg have cases yet? I need something lightweight for our TF1. I haven't been able to find any.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jeff Foster on June 16, 2015, 09:42:47 am
Okay.  I just took delivery of my new TF3 yesterday.  After playing with it at the house for a couple of hours I have a few initial observations.  Overall, I am very impressed.  This is a great little console and I am eager to use it in the real world.

The preamps sound just fine.  No complaints.  They may even sound better than the preamps in the M7, but until I get some real world mixing on this thing, I don't want to say that for certain.  The stuff I played through them at home sounded very warm and musical instead of the cold, sterile sound I expected form a budget digital mixer.
[Edit 08/14/2015: To add to this, I have since learned that the D-Pre preamps are the same preamps that Steinberg uses in their UR series of recording interfaces.  These preamps are very good and hold their own against any other similarly priced preamp.  These D-Pre preamps are arguably better quality than you'll find in most other budget live sound consoles.
Yamaha is also using these D-Pre preamps in the 3rd gen MG series, however contrary to popular internet opinion, these are NOT the same preamps as previous MG models.  These are much, much better.
I would also add that I continue to find the sound of this console much better than the Ls9 and M7 series, though I know there is likely much more to that than just the preamp itself.]

The touch screen is very responsive.  Changing parameters had no discernible delay.  The layer change buttons do have a delay though.  There is probably a half second delay between hitting the layer change button and when the faders actually change.  Not a big deal, but something I noticed. [ETA: The layer changes between inputs, outputs, and groups are nearly instant.  Layer changes between auxes do exhibit a pause between them.]

The PC editor had more weirdness than I expected.   First, it wouldn't even see the mixer on the network until I realized that you have to actually select which network card you want to use in the software.  My laptop has wired and wireless available, and the editor wouldn't work on whichever was active.  It actually need to be told which one to use.  Secondly, the meters in the editor are practically unusable.  The response is so slow that it might as well not even have them.  I'll try again with a wired connection, but my wireless is MIMO N and plenty fast, so I doubt the wire will make them much faster.

The USB driver seems pretty stable.  No issues connecting to the computer and no crashes.  I was easily able to get audio to/from Waves Tracks Live, as well as Cubase.

The scribble strips... Most of the colors were fine, but there are a couple of colors that are very, very similar.  The yellow and orange are nearly impossible to tell apart, as are the blue and the cyan.  The scribble strips themselves are very easy to read and I'm impressed that you can actually see the status of the gates and comps on the little LCD for each channel.  There's a good bit of info on each LCD, yet it's all very legible and easy to see.

I would like more options for the UDKs.  It's nice having the buttons and knobs, but they seem limited in what they can do.  The most useful stuff (to me) is snapshot controls for the buttons, and gain/EQ parameters for the knobs.  I'd like to have options to control an aux master level from a knob or have a button assigned to select and bring a specific channel's overview to the screen.

As to the main functions of the mixer.  There really isn't much to say.  It's a mixer.  It has all the features you'd expect on a digital mixer currently.  The addition of the presets and one-knob stuff is a time saver, but I can't say if I'll use much of that or keep it in normal mode instead until I get it out in the field.  I will say that the interface is the most un-Yamaha like that I've ever seen on a Yamaha (if that makes sense).  That's a good thing to me.  I never liked the interface on the M7 or LS9.

In the end, I'm very impressed.  It's a good little mixer and I am looking forward to getting the Dante card and the stage boxes.  Now I just need to find a road case.....
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jeff Foster on June 24, 2015, 06:39:23 pm
Thought I'd post an update now that I've had more time to play with it.  There are a few more things I noticed; some good, some bad.

Brightness:  The brightness for the screen, panel LEDs, Scribble strips, and color band (under the scribble strips) can all be adjusted separately.  Yamaha even included two "banks" where you can save different settings for each.  For example, Bank A could be set to fully bright for outdoor gigs, while Bank B can be customized for darker, indoor gigs.  One really cool thing I found is that the panel setting turns on ALL the LEDs if it is set to 9 or below.  All the LEDs are on, but at their lowest setting.  Selected/active LEDs are still noticeably brighter.  I guess this is how they overcome the lack of a lamp connector.  If you have a Steinberg CMC controller, you should be familiar with this type of thing since those controllers also have an option to turn on all the LEDs for dim rooms.

Snapshots: The snapshots recall instantly.  I didnt detect any noticeable lag from pressing the recall button to when the new settings took effect.  This is good.  However, the faders and other panel settings take a full second to change.  So while the new snapshot is running, the settings won't be reflected immediately.  I can live with this.  I'd rather everything be instant, but at least the settings are instant.  This is still WAY better than the delay on the Mackie TT24 where you could count to three before anything happened when changing snapshots.

PC editor:  Meters are slow and pretty much unusable over WiFi.  They are mildly better when using a wired connection.
The PC editor only follows the console in some aspects.  It seems a bit bipolar.  Like it wants to play along, but just can't.  For example, say you have snapshot 1 running on the console and the PC editor also shows snapshot 1.  Then you recall snapshot 2 on the console.  The PC editor still shows snapshot one at the top, though it is now blinking.  The other settings (fader levels, etc) do follow the console though.   So you could glance at the computer and think your snapshots are messed up or that you have the wrong one active.  I'm fairly certain that the same thing happens in reverse.  If you recall a snapshot on the PC, then the console still shows the previous snapshot. (I'd have to double check that to be certain).
Also, the selected channel will follow the console, but won't actually show the detail screens.  For example, if I select channel one, then tap on the console to bring up the gain finder, it will show on the console, but all the PC editor gets is the highlight around strip 1.  If you then try to edit another channel on the PC editor, the selected channel changes on the console.  Again, it's like it wants to play along, but isn't quite able to.  There is an option in the editor to "unlink" the channel select, but like I said, it only seems half linked to begin with.  Guess I'll be keeping it unlinked all the time.
Even when the console is connected, some of the settings are still unavailable such as user preferences and the brightness controls.

RTA:  Apparently, there is an RTA visible when editing any of the graphic EQs on the outputs.  It will show right underneath the graphic EQ itself.  However, there is no RTA for any of the parametric EQ's.  This is odd, because it seems to me it would be more useful to have an RTA on the channel EQ to make it easier for newbies to find and notch out feedback.
[Edit 06/25 to add:  Thanks to Kent Clasen for pointing out to me that there is an RTA available on every EQ screen.  To access, tap the bottom half of any EQ screen in an area that doesn't contain a filter.  i.e. tap somewhere empty.  That will then cycle through three displays - nothing (default), an RTA, and a piano graphic.  The RTA uses the bottom half of the EQ screen, but in actuality, it's really just the bottom quarter.  Since it appears the RTA graph roughly corresponds to the same DB scale on the bottom half of the EQ graph, 0dBFS would be at the 0 mark on the graph.  -10dBFS would be at -10 on the graph and so on.  Since the gain finder pretty much tells you to put your peaks at -20dBFS, that means the RTA is only on the very bottom of the EQ graph.  It is also faded as it approaches the bottom of the screen, so the combination of running so low on the screen and the faded bars makes it really hard to see.  Still, at least it is there.  ...and I checked, the RTA and piano scale displays are not listed in any of the documentation from Yamaha]

General:  I know that Yamaha likes these 8 channel overview screens on their digital consoles, but I always find them annoying and just in the way.  This console is no different.  When you select a channel, it goes to that 8-channel bank on the screen and then you still have to tap something in the channel strip to see the details.  When I press a channel's select button, I want to see details of that channel.  Give me the full channel overview.  I really don't care what the 7 channels next to it are doing.  When I hit that select button, it's because I need to focus on something on that channel.  I'd rather there be an option somewhere to just turn off the 8-channel overview, and use the 'home' button to take me to the channel overview for the currently selected channel.  If you're already in a channel's detail screen and then select another channel, thankfully it doesn't dump you out to the 8 channel overview, and will stay on the corresponding page while now showing the newly selected channel.  i.e. if on the EQ screen for channel 2, when you press the select button on channel 3, it now shows the EQ for channel 3.
In fairness, I've had this complaint about all the M7's and LS9's that I've used too.

Auxes:  Yamaha math. [sigh].  There are not 20 auxes.  There are 14... 8 mono and 6 stereo.  The 8 mono auxes can be linked to create additional stereo auxes if desired.  This linking is per aux pair, so you could use 2 mono auxes as another stereo aux, or all 8 mono auxes as 4 more stereo auxes, or any combination you desire.  The Flexibility is nice.
The 6 stereo auxes can also be repurposed as stereo subgroups and routed back to the main mix.  The 8 mono auxes cannot be routed back to the main mix.  This allows the stereo auxes to function as subgroups, or additional effects sends when using any of the insertable effects units.  All auxes can be set pre/post fader per channel.  In the aux master overview, there is a shortcut to make that aux all-pre or all-post.
There is an additional Sub bus that is set up just like an aux fed sub, but doesn't tie up any of the other 14 auxes.  I suppose a creative person could use it as a 9th mono aux send if they so chose.

Channel colors:  You can customize the channel colors to any of 8 colors (plus off).  This includes all of the outputs.  However, the presets include a particular color scheme and there is no way to change the colors for the different preset types.  If you use the presets, you'll need to get used to Yamaha's color scheme, or plan on changing a lot of colors.
The master bus will change color when in sends on fader mode.  The color will be whatever you have selected for that output bus.

Sends on faders: Typical sends on faders.  Just a couple things to note.  There is no master scribble strip.  Just an LED that lights under the plastic to show "Master" when in sends on fader mode.
ALL the channel select buttons light up when in sends on fader mode.  The selected channel now blinks.  The scribble strip also changes to read "send to Aux *" or something like that.  It's pretty hard to not realize you're in sends on fader mode with this board.

Faders:  They feel decent.  They're obviously not super expensive, but they feel smooth and have a fair amount of resistance.  The fader caps are plastic, and a fairly cheap plastic too.  The contour is reasonably comfortable though.  Oddly, the sides of the fader caps are cut in.  I suppose this helps you see the screen printing beneath the fader.  That isn't really necessary since the scribble strip shows the level during adjustments. 

Scribble strips: As I mentioned in my last comment, the scribble strips show a lot of information.  They are one of the best, if not the best scribble strip I've ever seen because of the info displayed and how legible it is.

Build:  The console itself feels solid and has all metal panels, except for the sides.  The sides are plastic and don't feel like they will stand up to much road abuse.  Hopefully someone will come out with a case for these consoles soon.

[Edit 06/25 to add:  Reading back through, there is one BIG thing that you should be aware of when considering this console.  I thought I had previously mentioned it, but apparently not.  Channels 33-40 are NOT full channels.  They have only 2 bands of parametric EQ and NO dynamics at all.  While Yamaha bills this as having 40 channels plus stereo, only the first 32 channels on the TF3/TF5 are full strips.  Granted, it is still nice to have those extra 8 inputs as long as you are aware of their limitations.  These channels can work fine for things like music playback, outboard effects returns, USB playback from DAW and so on.  The TF1 does not have this issue because it only has 32 mic channels plus the stereo and EFX.]

I still really like this console.  I know I may sound like I don't, but I'm just trying to point out all the nitpicky stuff that I've noticed since I'm sure the upcoming magazine reviews will be typical "rainbows and roses" stuff because no one ever seems to want to write an honest review nowadays.  Still, this is a great little console.

Though there are still a few advanced features that I do miss...
1. no snapshot crossfade
2. unable to route the stereo inputs (and EFX returns) to the sub bus. They pretty much set up the sub bus to function as an aux fed sub without tying up one of the 14 auxes, but then left the stereo inputs and EFX returns out of the routing screen to that bus.
3. I wish Aux masters could be assigned to DCAs
4. I really want to be able to control the effects SEND level and not the effects RETURN level.  As it is, the only way to do that is from each individual channel.  All the master levels are post-effect.  I get that this is aimed at newbies and it's easier to understand the return level, but they gave enough flexibility for advanced engineers in other things, just give me flexibility in this too.
5. The options available on the UDKs are a bit limited. Let me assign a specific aux send level to the user defined knob. Let me use a user defined key/button to bring a specific channel's overview to the screen. As it is, the knobs pretty much just do the Gain, EQ, or Dynamics parameters, the buttons are pretty much for snapshot control. They have other, less useful functions too, but seem pretty limited for the really useful functions. Again, I'm sure this was a marketing decision so as to not overload a novice user with options they wouldn't understand.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: John Brearton on July 15, 2015, 08:02:52 pm

[Edit 06/25 to add:  Reading back through, there is one BIG thing that you should be aware of when considering this console.  I thought I had previously mentioned it, but apparently not.  Channels 33-40 are NOT full channels.  They have only 2 bands of parametric EQ and NO dynamics at all.  While Yamaha bills this as having 40 channels plus stereo, only the first 32 channels on the TF3/TF5 are full strips.  Granted, it is still nice to have those extra 8 inputs as long as you are aware of their limitations.  These channels can work fine for things like music playback, outboard effects returns, USB playback from DAW and so on.  The TF1 does not have this issue because it only has 32 mic channels plus the stereo and EFX.]

I have been reading specs and FAQ and do not see how one accesses the all 40 of the inputs. There are 32 preamps and 2 pairs (4) RCAs so I assume the last 8 would need to come thru an outboard I/O via USB or the yet-to-be released card?
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Rob Spence on July 15, 2015, 11:58:49 pm
I have been reading specs and FAQ and do not see how one accesses the all 40 of the inputs. There are 32 preamps and 2 pairs (4) RCAs so I assume the last 8 would need to come thru an outboard I/O via USB or the yet-to-be released card?

32 + 4 is 36 so only four need to come from somewhere else. There is a slot for an option card which they claim will do 64x64 (the slot that is). There are, I believe, some USB inputs.

So, with a pair of 16ch stage boxes, you could still use 8 local inputs for example.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jeff Foster on July 17, 2015, 08:02:42 am
I have been reading specs and FAQ and do not see how one accesses the all 40 of the inputs. There are 32 preamps and 2 pairs (4) RCAs so I assume the last 8 would need to come thru an outboard I/O via USB or the yet-to-be released card?

By default, channels 33-40 are set to obtain signal from the USB card return.  I can't recall off hand, but I think the USB returns mapped to the channels are USB channels 1-8.  Though they may be different between the TF3 and TF5.  There's a chart somewhere that shows it.  Eventually, those channels should be accessible from the Dante network from what I was told.  Alternately, you can change those channels to duplicate signal from the onboard mic pres.  (inputs 1-8 on the TF5 or 9-16 on the TF3).

The stereo inputs have their own dedicated channels and don't fill up any of the 33-40 channels.  If you want the stereo channels on faders, you need to use the custom fader layer for that.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: John Brearton on July 17, 2015, 02:32:40 pm
By default, channels 33-40 are set to obtain signal from the USB card return.  I can't recall off hand, but I think the USB returns mapped to the channels are USB channels 1-8.

So you could use any 8 ch USB pre I/O to use all 40 input channels?
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jeff Foster on July 17, 2015, 03:22:57 pm
So you could use any 8 ch USB pre I/O to use all 40 input channels?

Not exactly.  You can use those 8 channels for playback from a computer host connected via USB, but you can't go buy an 8 channel USB recording interface and connect it to add 8 more preamps.  The mixer itself is a USB recording interface and needs to connect to a host computer just like any other recording interface.  If you tried to connect a recording interface to the mixer (another recording interface), then you just have two slave devices and no host device.  They wouldn't be able to talk to each other.

Theoretically, you could add an 8 channel recording interface to the same computer that the TF mixer connects to.  Then set up your DAW to route the incoming audio from the 8 channel rack unit to the return channels going back to the TF mixer.  That would technically give you 8 more mic preamps - supposing your computer can have two separate recording interface drivers active simultaneously (which would be rare by itself).  Even if you could get that to work, you would then have to calculate the total latency through the host computer.  It would very likely be far too high to be usable.

All that said, if you really need 40 mic inputs simultaneously, and can't wait until next year when the Dante card comes out, then maybe the TF isn't the mixer for you.  In fact, I'd just flat out say that if you need 40 mic inputs, you need to look at something else since channels 33-40 are limited in DSP anyway.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: David Flower on September 25, 2015, 06:57:56 pm
For theater use, I normally leave the channel on/off button "scene safe", to be used in the event one of the lav mics acts up - turn off that channel while waiting for the mic wranglers to fix it, and being scene safe keeps it off when the next scene is recalled as the show continues. This board has the on/off button and the channel fader on the same scene safe. Posted a request to Yamaha to separate the fader and on/off button. So far the only issue I have found...
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Don Davis on December 18, 2015, 06:14:27 pm
Looks like Yamaha is finally replacing the LS9 level mixer
And they did iPad and iPhone apps (10 users!)
http://yamahacommercialaudiosystems.com/product_detail.php?prodID=1167

Has anyone heard the map on the stage box yet? I'm seriously considering the TF5 but want to know what the Tios and Dante card will cost before deciding.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Tim McCulloch on December 18, 2015, 08:19:34 pm
Has anyone heard the map on the stage box yet? I'm seriously considering the TF5 but want to know what the Tios and Dante card will cost before deciding.

NAMM  is a month away.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Philip Roberts on December 18, 2015, 09:19:46 pm
I saw the area Yamaha rep at a mini trade show thing and he said not at NAMM but before NAB ...

Philip
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Rob Spence on December 19, 2015, 06:05:02 pm
Has anyone heard the map on the stage box yet? I'm seriously considering the TF5 but want to know what the Tios and Dante card will cost before deciding.

The older Dante cards were in the area of $500 for the Yamaha. The one for A&H was about $1000.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Don Davis on December 20, 2015, 11:01:57 am
NAMM  is a month away.
I'll stop by the Yamaha area and see if they have any info.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Don Davis on December 20, 2015, 11:04:49 am
The older Dante cards were in the area of $500 for the Yamaha. The one for A&H was about $1000.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Thanks what I'm hoping, about $500 for the card and hopefully a 16 channel Tio won't cost more than the mixer does.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Kent Clasen on December 20, 2015, 01:51:04 pm
Thanks what I'm hoping, about $500 for the card and hopefully a 16 channel Tio won't cost more than the mixer does.

I was told (not officially) target price around 1750, I believe for card and 16x8.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Don Davis on January 22, 2016, 11:20:06 am
NAMM  is a month away.

I spoke to one of the reps at the Yamaha booth and he said Map on stage boxes is $999 and the Dante card is $499. He said the should be shipping after the show.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on January 22, 2016, 01:26:56 pm
I spoke to one of the reps at the Yamaha booth and he said Map on stage boxes is $999 and the Dante card is $499. He said the should be shipping after the show.
Hope they put it into a bundle kinda like what Soundcraft does with their stageboxes. That or I wished Dante was built-in when the console was released.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jeff Foster on January 22, 2016, 01:59:36 pm
I spoke to one of the reps at the Yamaha booth and he said Map on stage boxes is $999 and the Dante card is $499. He said the should be shipping after the show.

V2.0 of the firmware was also released.  Among other things, it now enables the ST inputs to be routed to the sub bus, you can control the graphic EQs from the faders, as well as the obvious ability to send/receive Dante channels with the card.

Still no output delay.  Still nothing else on my feature request list that I have sent them more than once.  Seems more like an incremental update rather than a whole version change.  Overall, I'm kind of disappointed.  Maybe I was just expecting too much.  The card and stagebox were announced a long time ago and don't seem like that big of an announcement. 
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Thomas Le on February 11, 2016, 12:10:14 am
Sweetwater uploaded the product pages for the $400 card and $1000 stageboxes

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Tio1608D
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NY64D
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Luke Geis on August 01, 2016, 04:07:00 pm
So I got a TF3 for an install I did the sound design for. All in all I am happy with the mixer. There are a few things that bum me out, but from a sound quality and performance standpoint it is awesome.

The Pro's:

-Pretty easy to navigate and find your way around.

-nice touch screen and easy to read the mixer.

-plenty of mix options and outputs.

-The EQ is responsive and the sound quality of the mixer is good.

Con's:

-You have to two touch most all options, which means that it is three taps to get to most any desired parameter.

-No WYSIWYG means you are locked into using screen and remembering what the user defined buttons are.

-No output delays for the main and aux sends ( are you serious ).

- If you send a mix to multiple omni outs there is no independent digital trim for each output. You could just as easily use a Y on the Omni out and have the same control.

- There are 20 aux mixes, but the last 10 are basically stereo only. You really only have 14 auxes.

-While no big deal really, there is no graphic EQ for the " Sub " mix and the matrixes. Also the " Sub " buss only gets a three band parametric. The Sub buss is really limited.

My thoughts:

While I would not bat an eye at using this mixer, it is definitely dumbed down. My biggest gripe is needing to hit many menu options twice in order to get to the window to actually make a change. This makes many functions 3 button pushes away. My other huge issue is lack of output delay and digital trims for each omni out. The Omni outs need to be more about function rather than a link point. If I simply needed to split an output, I would use a Y for that. The FX are plenty good for this level of mixer and it is easy to use. I think however that for the price, it still has to give more. A Behringer X32 is still making this thing seem overpriced. If Yamaha were to release a few more abilities for this thing ( that should just be a part of it anyway ), it would be much harder to pass up. This is a great mixer for a beginner that doesn't know, but holds a power user back a bit.

Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on August 28, 2016, 07:17:31 am
V2.0 of the firmware was also released.  Among other things, it now enables the ST inputs to be routed to the sub bus, you can control the graphic EQs from the faders, as well as the obvious ability to send/receive Dante channels with the card.

Still no output delay.  Still nothing else on my feature request list that I have sent them more than once.  Seems more like an incremental update rather than a whole version change.  Overall, I'm kind of disappointed.  Maybe I was just expecting too much.  The card and stagebox were announced a long time ago and don't seem like that big of an announcement.

I believe the Version 2.5 has delay now. At least on some of the outputs.

https://www.facebook.com/YamahaCommercialAudioJapan/videos/vb.434041853311645/1002273546488470/?type=2&theater

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jeff Foster on September 06, 2016, 02:13:49 pm
TF firmware v3.0 is out now.  Among other features, it adds user account permissions...


Added an Access Permission function via user accounts.
Added a FADER section to the OVERVIEW screen.
Set the [HOME] key function in the PREFERENCE screen to display the FADER section. For detailed information, refer to the TF V3 Reference Manual.
Added an “EQ Band Select” function that can be assigned to the [USER DEFINED KEYS].
Added the following functions that can be assigned to the [USER DEFINED KNOBS].
Selected CH: EQ Band Select
Selected CH: Digital Gain
Selected CH: Send Level (FX, AUX, and SUB)
CH Select
CH Level
Added a “Power Saving Mode” function in the BRIGHTNESS screen.
This function automatically sets the screen brightness to low if no operation is performed during a specified amount of time.
Ensured that the STEREO/SUB Level Link function maintains offsets.
[Notices]
Offset values will also be saved in a Scene. However, Scenes saved via the TF series V2.50 or earlier do not include Offset values. This means that Offset values will not change even if such Scenes are recalled.
Added bus sends from the AUX9/10 – AUX19/20 busses to the SUB bus.
Added a SEND FROM screen to the FX1/FX2 channels.
Added the Matrix1-4 meters in the TOOLBAR.
New Presets have been added to the default Presets of the Channel Library. To add them to the Library list, execute “Initialize All Memory” after updating to V3.0.
Specification changes

Added the threshold link function of the “Multi Band Comp” effect to keep offsets between the Low, Mid, and High parameters. In addition, the Make Up parameter has been removed to avoid a sudden change of volume.
Changed the Input Gain offset link action between stereo link channels to keep the offset value even if the Input Gain is set to maximum or minimum.
The SYSTEM SETUP screen and the USER SETUP screen have been consolidated to the SETUP screen.
Added an Initialize NY64-D screen in the Maintenance screen.
Initializing the NY64-D feature was included in the “Initialize All Memory” function in V2.50 or earlier. This feature has become an independent function from the V3.0 firmware.
Changed the specification to not load the settings of channel selection, fader bank selection, and SENDS ON FADER to the TF setting file (.TFF).
Changed the “Monitor Source Select” operation of the USER DEFINED KEY from simple selection to toggling between selection and off.
Improvements

Improved the volume curve in a muting of internal HA gain control at each 6dB point.
Improved the action of motor faders.
Fixed bugs

Solved a problem in which the Stereo Link function might cause a data loop for the HA Gain control of the Tio1608-D when some TF series units having the HA Control set to on exist in the same Dante network.
Solved a problem in which a TF setting file could not be loaded by a certain operation procedure.
Solved a problem in which the Send Pan parameter set to center when executing the “All Nominal” context menu in the SEND FROM screen.
Solved some minor bugs.
Known issue

A message “Two or More HA Controllers may Cause Conflict” may appear when loading a TF setting file (.TFF) while the “HA Control” option in the Slot Setup menu is off. In this case, the progress bar showing the loading status may disappear. However, the initialization otherwise works properly.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Ray Aberle on July 20, 2017, 03:28:48 pm
So a buddy of mine has a TF1 (at an AVMS property). They are having an interesting quirk where they'll set up a show, and come back 5-6 hours later and the gain structure is off by 10-15dB. This is regardless of power cycling the unit or not. These are using just the built in pre-amps; they do not have a Tio for it yet.

Anyone with TF experience seen or heard of this phenomena, and what might be a solution to stop it?

-Ray
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on July 20, 2017, 03:37:20 pm
So a buddy of mine has a TF1 (at an AVMS property). They are having an interesting quirk where they'll set up a show, and come back 5-6 hours later and the gain structure is off by 10-15dB. This is regardless of power cycling the unit or not. These are using just the built in pre-amps; they do not have a Tio for it yet.

Anyone with TF experience seen or heard of this phenomena, and what might be a solution to stop it?

-Ray

Get a decent mixer instead?
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Don Davis on July 20, 2017, 04:16:04 pm
So a buddy of mine has a TF1 (at an AVMS property). They are having an interesting quirk where they'll set up a show, and come back 5-6 hours later and the gain structure is off by 10-15dB. This is regardless of power cycling the unit or not. These are using just the built in pre-amps; they do not have a Tio for it yet.

Anyone with TF experience seen or heard of this phenomena, and what might be a solution to stop it?

-Ray

I've had my TF5 for months now and not one issue. Have him check with Yamaha.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Ray Aberle on July 20, 2017, 04:38:21 pm
Get a decent mixer instead?
Yeahhhhhhhh well you saw what the company is- and I think you know how those outfits work when it comes to what gear they get to have. So as much as I appreciate the snarkiness of your replies on here, definitely not what I was looking for or something that's feasible! :-)

I've had my TF5 for months now and not one issue. Have him check with Yamaha.
That's definitely the next step. But, wanted to see if anyone had seen this particular issue before. I don't see much chatter about them still, so either they're all working really well or no one has noticed this problem before and it's an inherent design flaw. Heh.

-Ray
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Dave Garoutte on July 20, 2017, 08:13:40 pm
Yeahhhhhhhh well you saw what the company is- and I think you know how those outfits work when it comes to what gear they get to have. So as much as I appreciate the snarkiness of your replies on here, definitely not what I was looking for or something that's feasible! :-)
That's definitely the next step. But, wanted to see if anyone had seen this particular issue before. I don't see much chatter about them still, so either they're all working really well or no one has noticed this problem before and it's an inherent design flaw. Heh.

-Ray

Or not many people here are using that board.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Ray Aberle on July 20, 2017, 08:35:58 pm
Or not many people here are using that board.
That thought had occurred to me as well. But, you always figure that with the wide breadth of experiences on here, there's always a chance that someone's sold one or otherwise dealt with this weirdness. With at least two users (Don, Jeff) on this thread, though, at least there will be some real world hands on experiences.

-Ray
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Nathan Riddle on July 21, 2017, 01:38:26 pm
So a buddy of mine has a TF1 (at an AVMS property). They are having an interesting quirk where they'll set up a show, and come back 5-6 hours later and the gain structure is off by 10-15dB. This is regardless of power cycling the unit or not. These are using just the built in pre-amps; they do not have a Tio for it yet.

Anyone with TF experience seen or heard of this phenomena, and what might be a solution to stop it?

-Ray

I've been mixing on one since Jan every week. And they have 3 between the different campuses.

The one i'm on is dante to tio boxes. The other two are pre's.

No issues that I've heard of except the psu cable issue with the first run of TF series.
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Bob Leonard on July 21, 2017, 03:13:11 pm
Get a decent mixer instead?

Maybe he got the one I saw dropped at GC Mr. Snarky pants.  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha - New Mixer - TF series
Post by: Jeff Foster on August 02, 2017, 07:31:10 pm
So a buddy of mine has a TF1 (at an AVMS property). They are having an interesting quirk where they'll set up a show, and come back 5-6 hours later and the gain structure is off by 10-15dB. This is regardless of power cycling the unit or not. These are using just the built in pre-amps; they do not have a Tio for it yet.

Anyone with TF experience seen or heard of this phenomena, and what might be a solution to stop it?

-Ray

Since you tagged me in one of the posts, I'll chime in. I've never heard of this issue in the TF series.  About the closest thing I've seen on the multiple TF consoles I've used/installed was where the iPad sync would be messed up (playback very "static" filled)  after leaving the console for a while. This was only on one console that I've seen and I never bothered to do extensive troubleshooting to see if it was the console causing the issue or the iDevice itself. 
 
There's a TF user group on Facebook where people ask about random glitches all the time (well, very occasionally since the TF seems to be pretty reliable).  One of the Yamaha designers/staff is a frequent contributor there. You might post about it there to see if anyone has seen that before.