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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Jamin Lynch on March 25, 2015, 09:34:17 am

Title: Buying TH118's
Post by: Jamin Lynch on March 25, 2015, 09:34:17 am
I'm about to pull the trigger on 4 new TH118's...sight unseen. Buying solely based on what I've read here.

 Please convince me I'm doing the right thing.  :)
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John Penkala on March 25, 2015, 09:48:22 am
I'm about to pull the trigger on 4 new TH118's...sight unseen. Buying solely based on what I've read here.

 Please convince me I'm doing the right thing.  :)

When you say sight unseen are you buying them used or new? What is your current subwoofer setup?
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Rick Powell on March 25, 2015, 09:58:18 am
When you say sight unseen are you buying them used or new? What is your current subwoofer setup?

He said "new" so I assume he meant "new". 

I bought my TH115's sight unseen too.

I will say that the 118's seldom come up for sale used, and the last pair I saw was offered at around $3300.  Assuming they will fit the intended purpose (assuming it is providing 150+ peak dB of fairly directed sound from 30 to 100 Hz as a group of four) the primary negative I can see is a "rider friendly" situation where customers aren't sure if they are acceptable substitutes for JBL, EAW or what have you.  This unfamiliarity should dissipate over time, especially with the high profile Danley installations at Lambeau Field, LSU, Iowa State, etc. and the familiarity of the products with the users of this LAB and other forums.

I said "fairly directed sound" as in, most of the energy from this cabinet goes forward.   I don't hear a lot of low end leaking backward on stage when we play outdoors.  OTOH, we did an outdoor show last year where a provider had four EV MTH-1's (center clustered) and the backwash on stage was deafening.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Jamin Lynch on March 25, 2015, 10:06:10 am
When you say sight unseen are you buying them used or new? What is your current subwoofer setup?

I'm buying new only.

When I said "sight unseen" I mean never heard them live before.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Nick Reese on March 25, 2015, 10:09:55 am
I've seen it talked about before on the forum but was curious, what are the prices (new) for the TH118? I'm also considering buying sight/heard unseen (as well as the SM80) based off of all the talk here on the forum. I live in small town Nebraska, so practically no opportunity to demo these products without a very lengthy drive.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John Penkala on March 25, 2015, 10:10:49 am
He said "new" so I assume he meant "new". 

I bought my TH115's sight unseen too.

I will say that the 118's seldom come up for sale used, and the last pair I saw was offered at around $3300.  Assuming they will fit the intended purpose (assuming it is providing 150+ peak dB of fairly directed sound from 30 to 100 Hz as a group of four) the primary negative I can see is a "rider friendly" situation where customers aren't sure if they are acceptable substitutes for JBL, EAW or what have you.  This unfamiliarity should dissipate over time, especially with the high profile Danley installations at Lambeau Field, LSU, Iowa State, etc. and the familiarity of the products with the users of this LAB and other forums.

I said "fairly directed sound" as in, most of the energy from this cabinet goes forward.   I don't hear a lot of low end leaking backward on stage when we play outdoors.  OTOH, we did an outdoor show last year where a provider had four EV MTH-1's (center clustered) and the backwash on stage was deafening.

The reason I asked the question is that sometimes "new" doesn't mean brand new. It means new to the buyer.  I wouldn't have any apprehension buying factory new Danley speakers "sight unseen". If he is buying used, I would verify that the correct drivers are installed. +1 on the "rider friendly" comments. Additionally, the Danley subs are also popular in the DJ/EDM market.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on March 25, 2015, 10:12:06 am
I'm buying new only.

When I said "sight unseen" I mean never heard them live before.
I did the same and have been really happy.  The form factor is really nice - they go up my ramp into my cargo van very easily, and being a vertical box, there's no awkward tipping in the truck like with subs that have casters on a long side.

I've been powering mine with an ITechHD12000, and since I'm an amp short for my Vertec stuff, have been contemplating getting a couple PowerPlate modules and an external DSP, since that's less money than another ITechHD12K.  In any case, I don't think there's a better mid-sized portable sub out there.  Danley's bigger stuff can put out more SPL per cu. ft than the TH-118 so for large shows a different box may be better, but for mid-sized stuff, the logistics of the TH-118 are unbeatable.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjśr on March 25, 2015, 10:16:54 am
Well, since we're still just voices on the Internet, I can tell you my personal philosophy about choosing gear solely based on what you hear on the Net:

There are about as many opinions as there are people and sometimes someone will praise a product you personally loathe and sometimes vice versa. So how do you know when you can trust an opinion? Sometimes even a friend whom you trust to have "good taste" (ie. taste that's similar to yours ;o)) will screw up and fall in love with something that you find appalling.

Personally, I've never thought the passioned intense hate there is online for the AKG C1000S is deserved. Sure, it's not the greatest mic there is, but it really gets more than its fair share of flaming, I think.

And personally there's one particular, very well-known, brand of speakers at the very top level of the business, that I've never understood why so many people like (due to my affiliation with Danley Sound Labs I will leave this unnamed). All other manufacturers "in the best league" make some very nice speakers - except this one brand IMO.

BUT! Every now and again, there are products that no one seems to really diss and all reviews and opinions are quite favorable. One example could be the Great River preamp in studio world. Nobody dislikes that. There may be better ones for a particular purpose and so on, but overall it seems everyone agrees that this one is at the very least quite good.

My philosophy is that those rare few products are probably ok to buy just on hearsay.

How/if this applies to the TH-118, I'll let you be the judge on. Google it (like you haven't already ;o))
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John L Nobile on March 25, 2015, 10:53:01 am
I'm about to pull the trigger on 4 new TH118's...sight unseen. Buying solely based on what I've read here.

 Please convince me I'm doing the right thing.  :)

I would have been a little less nervous had I had the chance to audition my Danley system before buying it. Especially after all the "pro" advice I got to not get it. Hard to argue with "But you've never heard it". My only argument was that I wasn't happy with anything I've heard yet.
But I like horn loaded systems and I totally bought into the Synergy horn concept. The system showed up and totally blew me and the soundco away.
I wound up with 2 SBH218's. If I had the chance to hear TH118's I may have gotten 4 of them instead. I hope to hear them one day but I'm totally happy with the SBH218's. I've never had lo end like this.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Jamin Lynch on March 25, 2015, 02:43:52 pm
More details:

Most of my jobs have been country/Texas country with a little classic rock thrown in and church events. Mostly indoors. Haven't really needed chest thumping subs.  Up to 500 would be considered a pretty large event. My current subs have been more than adequate.

The problem is most of these gigs don't exactly pay very well. I'm getting more calls for Tejano, which is large in my area, and some EDM/rap events. The Tejano bands pay a lot better but require it to be really loud with big thumping subs.

I did a show for a Tejano band last week for about 300-400. They loved the quality of the sound I was putting out but they wanted more chest thump and my subs were just about at their limit. I thought it was way too loud, but that's the way they like it. The crowd...not the band. :o

I didn't measure it because once you hit "way too loud" who cares what the meter says. :)

I feel if I'm going to be doing more of these types of shows I will need to step up to better subs.

Meeting rider requirements isn't really an issue for me. Most shows I do don't have riders.

I am considering the TH118's mainly due to their output and sound quality (from what I've read on the forums) but also the size. I only have so much room in the trailer and a bunch of double 18's won't fit.

Any input from actual  users would be greatly appreciated.

Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Dave Barker on March 25, 2015, 02:46:58 pm
I have 8 of the TH-115 and they are one of the best buys I have ever made.  Had them for  6-7 years now.  Nothing but compliments on the sound of them and I have never not had enough low end for a show.  From rock to hip hop indoors, outdoors they just pound day and night.

Also just a note I have never had a problem with a single driver either.  I drive them with a QSC PL380, used to be PL6's.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Mark McFarlane on March 25, 2015, 04:02:11 pm
I'm about to pull the trigger on 4 new TH118's...sight unseen. Buying solely based on what I've read here.

 Please convince me I'm doing the right thing.  :)

Considering the cost of 4 TH118s, a plane ticket from Texas to Georgia may be worthwhile to put you at ease.  Maybe you can negotiate a deal with Danley to split the ticket of you buy the subs.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Jamin Lynch on March 25, 2015, 04:12:13 pm
Considering the cost of 4 TH118s, a plane ticket from Texas to Georgia may be worthwhile to put you at ease.  Maybe you can negotiate a deal with Danley to split the ticket of you buy the subs.

Didn't I make that same recommendation to someone else not long ago?  :o

I should try to go....just no time.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Stu McDoniel on March 25, 2015, 06:53:25 pm
I'm about to pull the trigger on 4 new TH118's...sight unseen. Buying solely based on what I've read here.

 Please convince me I'm doing the right thing.  :)
There is a smaller Jazz fest in town here every Sept  outside in a large park on the river and the company that does SR for it uses Bag End Crystals /3 per side hung and a single TH118 per side.   Pretty dam impressive subwoofers with nice low extension.   The 5 string bass guitar really stood out on low notes.   I think you will be quite happy with them.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Tim Weaver on March 25, 2015, 11:45:25 pm
Do it Jamin. They are really killer subs. I think you will love them.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Tim Weaver on March 25, 2015, 11:46:41 pm
I for one, have been spoiled because I have heard the TH812. Just once, but that was enough. I want that sub at every show now. I just have to find someone that will pay for it!
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Robert Piascik on March 26, 2015, 01:26:47 am
My first experience with Danley subs was when a church in my town was selling four TH115. I, too, had read all the praise here about Danley speakers and I auditioned them against my EAW SB750 dual 18" subs (that I thought were great). ONE Danley TH115 blew away my dual 18"! I got an offer to sell my entire EAW system and so bought those subs. I was so happy I then bought two SM80 and two TH118 SIGHT UNSEEN from another forum member. I COULDN'T BE HAPPIER with this system. I then added two more SM80 and six more TH118 thinking I would sell the four TH115 (but I haven't yet cause I still find uses for them!) For my level of events (small festivals, community concerts, hotel ballrooms, country clubs) they are perfect! I can't imagine you would be disappointed. Have you heard ANYONE here say they were NOT happy with these subs? BUY THEM, YOU WONT EVER LOOK BACK! (And if you DON'T like them, I bet someone on this forum would happily buy them from you.) I got my new stuff from a forum member not my local dealer. PM me for info.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Scott Carneval on March 26, 2015, 09:25:16 am
More details:

Most of my jobs have been country/Texas country with a little classic rock thrown in and church events. Mostly indoors. Haven't really needed chest thumping subs.  Up to 500 would be considered a pretty large event. My current subs have been more than adequate.

The problem is most of these gigs don't exactly pay very well. I'm getting more calls for Tejano, which is large in my area, and some EDM/rap events. The Tejano bands pay a lot better but require it to be really loud with big thumping subs.

I did a show for a Tejano band last week for about 300-400. They loved the quality of the sound I was putting out but they wanted more chest thump and my subs were just about at their limit. I thought it was way too loud, but that's the way they like it. The crowd...not the band. :o

I didn't measure it because once you hit "way too loud" who cares what the meter says. :)

I feel if I'm going to be doing more of these types of shows I will need to step up to better subs.

Meeting rider requirements isn't really an issue for me. Most shows I do don't have riders.

I am considering the TH118's mainly due to their output and sound quality (from what I've read on the forums) but also the size. I only have so much room in the trailer and a bunch of double 18's won't fit.

Any input from actual  users would be greatly appreciated.

To add to what everyone else has already said, buy them!  I just installed 4 TH118's in an EDM nightclub and was really impressed.  I've never heard bass like that before from ANY system.  I happened to be in Atlanta yesterday so we stopped by Danley HQ.  They spent about 3 hours talking to us about the various speakers and subs, why each one is designed and shaped the way it is, and just talking shop.  Some of the stuff there is absolutely amazing!  Even the little SH-Mini's are damn impressive.  Overall they're a great group of guys and their support is top notch.  You won't be disappointed. 
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: David Hoover on March 26, 2015, 11:20:18 am
I'm about to pull the trigger on 4 new TH118's...sight unseen. Buying solely based on what I've read here.

 Please convince me I'm doing the right thing.  :)
4 TH118 subs with propper power will have a lot of output.  I run two up against a wall pushing 90 to 95dBA probably 105dBC with lots of punchy subs and never touch the -20dB light on the XTI6000.  They sound more real than any front loaded sub.  They have real texture and dynamics, which has always been my complaint with dual 18" subs.  You need the dual 18" subs for output, but they always just make noise to me. Even high end expensive dual 18's. objectively the TH118's have less distortion than any brand I have compared including Meyer, Turbo, EV, JBL, etc.  The actual horns from Danley such as the BC415 or the DBH in my opinion sound even cleaner with even less distortion.  Folded horns typically are clean.  We just installed two BC415 subs in one of our rooms and they are so clean that they don't interfere with the mix really at all above their crossover point. Cost wise, if you need a lot of output, the TH118 is a great choice.  It's cost per output and low frequency extension are priced the same as their large cabinets.  For example, equivalent TH118 subs in quantity VS like a BC sub match up in price pretty close.  I think Danley knew that and wanted you to get the best sub for YOU and not have everyone getting the cheapest per output box.  Just my two cents!!!

Regards,
David

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II

Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: David Hoover on March 26, 2015, 11:24:18 am
PS if you get a Danley EDA 12000 amp it will properly power 4 TH118 subs and you would be numbers wise in the BC415 ballpark for output!

Regards,
David

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II

Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Caleb Dueck on March 26, 2015, 01:52:18 pm
As long as you have plenty of amp power, you'll love the TH-118's.  I'm partial to DBH218's with Powersoft power, but the TH-118's aren't far behind. 
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John L Nobile on March 26, 2015, 02:50:33 pm
As long as you have plenty of amp power, you'll love the TH-118's.  I'm partial to DBH218's with Powersoft power, but the TH-118's aren't far behind.

Dick, I'm curious as to the difference between 4 TH118's and 2 SBH218's. I have 2 SBH218's but after reading all the rave reviews of the TH118's I'd like to see some feedback from someone who has tried both.
Plus I'm being asked to look into a sytem for a couple of theaters and the SM80/TH118 or SBH218 combo is what I'm going to suggest.
BTW, the SM80/DBH218 pairing is great. The SH96HO'DBH218 pairing is like having giant studio monitors.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Jamin Lynch on March 26, 2015, 03:17:57 pm
As long as you have plenty of amp power, you'll love the TH-118's.  I'm partial to DBH218's with Powersoft power, but the TH-118's aren't far behind.

The DBH218's look very impressive, unfortunately I wouldn't have any way to transport them. A little too big and heavy for me. One man show here most of the time.

I was going to use ITech's to power them. Not sure which one yet. 5000HD or 9000HD.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 26, 2015, 05:46:45 pm
Dick, I'm curious as to the difference between 4 TH118's and 2 SBH218's. I have 2 SBH218's but after reading all the rave reviews of the TH118's I'd like to see some feedback from someone who has tried both.
Plus I'm being asked to look into a sytem for a couple of theaters and the SM80/TH118 or SBH218 combo is what I'm going to suggest.
BTW, the SM80/DBH218 pairing is great. The SH96HO'DBH218 pairing is like having giant studio monitors.
A "rough comparison between the TH118 and the DBH218 is as follows.

If you compare 2 TH118s to a single DBH218-The TH118 will have more down low, and the DBH218 will have more up high (like above 60hz or so).

So the DBH218 will have more "punch and impact, while TH118 will have more deep lows.

The drivers are the same in both situations-so powering them up will be the same.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John L Nobile on March 26, 2015, 07:29:28 pm
A "rough comparison between the TH118 and the DBH218 is as follows.

If you compare 2 TH118s to a single DBH218-The TH118 will have more down low, and the DBH218 will have more up high (like above 60hz or so).

So the DBH218 will have more "punch and impact, while TH118 will have more deep lows.

The drivers are the same in both situations-so powering them up will be the same.

I'm confused. Seems to be a normal state for me.
The specs you have show the - 3db points as 34 for the DBH218 and 40 for the TH118. I see (and hear) where the 218 has more "punch",  but I don't understand why the 118 would have more "deep  lows".
Keep in mind that I've never heard the 118 and that myself and everyone in the cast loves the 218s. And that our previous subs were a pair of Meyer 650's which they never noticed.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 26, 2015, 07:55:44 pm
I'm confused. Seems to be a normal state for me.
The specs you have show the - 3db points as 34 for the DBH218 and 40 for the TH118. I see (and hear) where the 218 has more "punch",  but I don't understand why the 118 would have more "deep  lows".
Keep in mind that I've never heard the 118 and that myself and everyone in the cast loves the 218s. And that our previous subs were a pair of Meyer 650's which they never noticed.

THe 40Hz is incorrect on the "simple specs.  I am not sure where it came from-but I will get the  IT guys to change it.

This is a good example of where the "simple numbers" can not tell the whole story.

My statements are based on what I have measured in a side by side setup.

I don't think I saved the graphs-and this is from memory.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on March 26, 2015, 08:40:20 pm

THe 40Hz is incorrect on the "simple specs.  I am not sure where it came from-but I will get the  IT guys to change it.

This is a good example of where the "simple numbers" can not tell the whole story.

My statements are based on what I have measured in a side by side setup.

I don't think I saved the graphs-and this is from memory.

Just for the sake of conversation - What is the correct 'simple number'?

My experience playing with Art's keystone project has me GAS'ing hard for the real deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Buying TH118's-reading specs
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 26, 2015, 08:51:47 pm
Just for the sake of conversation - What is the correct 'simple number'?

My experience playing with Art's keystone project has me GAS'ing hard for the real deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just "being picky" it is the number that YOU come up with using the provided freq response graph-both in sensitivity and freq response.

Different people can look at the same graph and come up with different "simple numbers".

That is EXACTLY the reason we provide the actual response graphs provided by the measurement system (not something "redrawn" for a spec sheet)-so people don't have to guess as to where the "simple numbers" may have come from.

If you don't have the actual response graph-WITH associated SPL number (NO, 0dB on the scale DOES NOT count-unless the 0dB is defined and associated with a specific dB SPL), then you have no idea where they came from.

For example-If the sensitivity number is increased (which it could "still be correct") then the low freq corner would ALSO have to increase.

IF the low freq is DIRECTLY tied to the SPL number.  That is THE ONLY LEGIT WAY to do it.

If you don't "tie them together" then you can simply "make up" whatever number you want-and they don't have to mean anything.

For example we could state the sensitivity as 114dB (which IS noted on the spec sheet), since the speaker WILL produce this level with 2.83V input.

But that is not real useful when looking at sub freq.  But most manufacturers that only give "simple numbers" do not say where they come from.

One VERY FAMOUS manufacturer actually rated one of their 2x18" subs having a "20-20K sensitivity" at the level that was produced around 1800Hz.  Not exactly in the sub range-but still in the "audio freq range"-so for some people this "counts".

So the real answer is "it depends".  Sorry.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John L Nobile on March 26, 2015, 09:39:02 pm
I see where the 218 is hotter above 60 hz but between 30 and 40 hz they both look the same while the 218 is 10 db hotter at 20 hz.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's-reading specs
Post by: TJ (Tom) Cornish on March 26, 2015, 10:09:06 pm
Just "being picky" it is the number that YOU come up with using the provided freq response graph-both in sensitivity and freq response.

Different people can look at the same graph and come up with different "simple numbers".

That is EXACTLY the reason we provide the actual response graphs provided by the measurement system (not something "redrawn" for a spec sheet)-so people don't have to guess as to where the "simple numbers" may have come from.

If you don't have the actual response graph-WITH associated SPL number (NO, 0dB on the scale DOES NOT count-unless the 0dB is defined and associated with a specific dB SPL), then you have no idea where they came from.

For example-If the sensitivity number is increased (which it could "still be correct") then the low freq corner would ALSO have to increase.

IF the low freq is DIRECTLY tied to the SPL number.  That is THE ONLY LEGIT WAY to do it.

If you don't "tie them together" then you can simply "make up" whatever number you want-and they don't have to mean anything.

For example we could state the sensitivity as 114dB (which IS noted on the spec sheet), since the speaker WILL produce this level with 2.83V input.

But that is not real useful when looking at sub freq.  But most manufacturers that only give "simple numbers" do not say where they come from.

One VERY FAMOUS manufacturer actually rated one of their 2x18" subs having a "20-20K sensitivity" at the level that was produced around 1800Hz.  Not exactly in the sub range-but still in the "audio freq range"-so for some people this "counts".

So the real answer is "it depends".  Sorry.
So which "it depends" number are you going to put on the spec sheet?
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Caleb Dueck on March 26, 2015, 11:54:19 pm
To my ears, the DBH is more accurate in the time domain.  It's based on how a folded horn works vs a tapped horn, Ivan or Tom Danley can explain the physics better than I can. 

On level ground, a DBH isn't bad for one guy to move. 

Since it's a folded horn, when used in quantity (4+), the frequency response dip of a folded horn down low "fills in".  Four DBH's together will wake you up.

In our installs, we use DBH subs in some quantity more than any other model.  Second is TH-118.  Even for small projects, the efficiency and extension of a 118 work well, if really small we'll use a smaller amp.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Frederik Rosenkjśr on March 27, 2015, 02:33:49 am
On level ground, a DBH isn't bad for one guy to move. 


How about laying it down/standing it up, putting it on and off its wheels?
Title: Re: Buying TH118's-reading specs
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 27, 2015, 07:55:04 am
So which "it depends" number are you going to put on the spec sheet?
Here is where I come up with the numbers for the spec sheet.

First I measure the subs outside-free of reflections at a distance of 10M-with an input of 28.3V.

This distance reduces the errors that can come with actually measuring at 1M.  If we did measure at 1M we would come up with HIGHER sensitivity numbers (that look great on a spec sheet and would be "correct"), but I feel the spec sheet should give an accurate representation of how the loudspeaker performs for a large area-not just a test signal/situation.

Once I have the trace I look at it and use MY OPINION of what I FEEL is the "average sensitivity" that "best describes" the performance of the sub (or main) within its intended pass band.

For subs this means below 100hz and often below 80Hz.

Let's say that I choose 100dB as my opinion of the "average".

TO get the -3dB point, I simply go down 3dB (ONLY-NOT +/-3dB which is a 6dB window for "flat", and then ANOTHER 3dB down to get the "so called -3dB" point-like some manufacturers do :(  ), and whatever that freq is we call it the -3dB point.

On some of our products I choose to use -4dB, because of a "ripple" in the response, I feel that the -4dB may give a better overall idea of the actual response.

Again-that is where having the ACTUAL RESPONSE GRAPH and READING IT comes in.  Without it, the person who put the "simple numbers" on the spec sheet can put whatever they want-and don't have to have anything to back it up.

Our numbers are directly traceable to the SHOWN response graph.

Unless of course the IT guys making up the spec sheets make an error on the numbers I give them. :(   Yes it happens.  But we correct them when we find them.

We could claim the maximum peak output as 149dB and still be "correct" because the cabinet WILL produce 149dB peak.  BUT NOT in the intended sub range.

So we would be "giving the correct answer" but NOT to the question you asked. (what is the maximum I can get out of the cabinet)-as you think you wanted.

But this does not stop some manufacturers from putting those numbers on the spec sheets.

THey are not lying-but they CERTAINLY are not telling you the truth-as you would like it (or expect it) to be told.

That is why side by side tests and real world experience with products trumps spec sheets.

It depends on what the spec sheet is for.  I believe it is to provide USEFUL data to the user to help them choose a proper product.

Others believe it is to "put some pretty numbers on it so we can sell more product".

That is the difference between engineering and marketing.  Our spec sheets come from the engineer department, and the marketing guys have NO say so in the numbers-only the "verbage" that describes the product.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 27, 2015, 08:02:59 am
How about laying it down/standing it up, putting it on and off its wheels?
I cna lay the DBH218 down (and get it up) by myself (but it is easier with another person).

PUtting a second DBH218 on top is easier than getting the first one down.

Simply lay it over and push it up..

The TH118s are much easier.  I can stack 3 high by myself.  But again-a second person makes getting the 3rd on e up easier.

But it also takes more of the TH118s to equal the output of the DBH218s.

Overall the TH118s is a more "portable/useful" box for most people
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: David Morison on March 27, 2015, 10:40:49 am
THe 40Hz is incorrect on the "simple specs.  I am not sure where it came from-but I will get the  IT guys to change it.

This is a good example of where the "simple numbers" can not tell the whole story.

My statements are based on what I have measured in a side by side setup.

I don't think I saved the graphs-and this is from memory.

Actually, looking at the graph it does look like 40Hz is the -3dB point (Nominal sensitivity is given as 108dB, entirely consistent with the 50-100Hz part of the graph).
You would only get the lower corner if you go to a -4dB spec for this one (and to be fair, the spec sheet does clearly say -4dB next to the 35Hz figure).
As I haven't heard the box, I can't say how valid that is, of course.
David.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on March 27, 2015, 12:42:13 pm
Actually, looking at the graph it does look like 40Hz is the -3dB point (Nominal sensitivity is given as 108dB, entirely consistent with the 50-100Hz part of the graph).
You would only get the lower corner if you go to a -4dB spec for this one (and to be fair, the spec sheet does clearly say -4dB next to the 35Hz figure).
As I haven't heard the box, I can't say how valid that is, of course.
David.
And as you can see by looking at the graph (GOOD FOR YOU) that the response gets flat just below 40Hz.

So in this case a -4dB point makes more sense in "trying to describe" the performance in a couple of numbers.

If it just rolled off-then I would have chosen the -3dB number-because -4 would only be a Hz or so lower.

Just relying on the "simple numbers" is like listening to a guitar amp in a music store that has a volume pot in which all of the gain in in the 1st half of the pot.  You never turn it up in the store, and just "assume" that when you take it home it will continue to get louder-which ti doesn't.

But THAT is EXACTLY what the designers were going for-to fool you into buying something when you "hoped" it was something else.

It depends on what is important-selling something that really works and will be around for a long time, or trying to convince somebody that something is good by using "salesmanship".
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John Rutirasiri on March 30, 2015, 04:10:28 pm
Please convince me I'm doing the right thing.  :)

You're doing the right thing.

I have 16 of them but never had to use more than 8 indoor or outdoor.  They do justice with everything from jazz and rock to hip hop and EDM.  Want to hear individual notes and resonance of the bass strings?  Check.  Want to peel paint and shake the building?  Check.  Very low distortion so it's really clean sounding.  Great box for EDM and DJ applications -- punchy and crazy hot from 125Hz to 140Hz.  It just does everything well.

I run four 8-Ohm boxes on one IT12000HD.

Having said that, a few EDM promoters who never of Danley have given me grief for the fact that it has a single 18" instead of dual 18s.  I have lost bids based on that fact.   What they don't know (or care to lsiten) is that one TH118 will run circles around just about any double-18 sub in existence, and in many cases, outruns TWO double-18 boxes. 

Go for it; you will have the best 1-man movable, minivan-transportable sub money can buy and never look back.

If you will be in the Chicagoland area, give me a shout and stop by to listen.

Best,
JR
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Rick Powell on March 31, 2015, 12:27:35 am
Having said that, a few EDM promoters who never of Danley have given me grief for the fact that it has a single 18" instead of dual 18s.  I have lost bids based on that fact.   What they don't know (or care to lsiten) is that one TH118 will run circles around just about any double-18 sub in existence, and in many cases, outruns TWO double-18 boxes. 

Hopefully, EDM providers like Pure Groove, and the events they provide for, will help spread the word and knowledge of what these boxes will do to the EDM market.  There's a whole big pile of Danley boxes down in Miami for Miami Music Festival, including my SM80s that were rented as well as a whole bunch of TH 118s and other subs and top boxes from Danley.  I'd use this event as a reference if this issue comes up for you again.

http://puregroovesystems.com/news-events-2/
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John Rutirasiri on April 01, 2015, 01:37:36 pm
Hopefully, EDM providers like Pure Groove, and the events they provide for, will help spread the word and knowledge of what these boxes will do to the EDM market.  There's a whole big pile of Danley boxes down in Miami for Miami Music Festival, including my SM80s that were rented as well as a whole bunch of TH 118s and other subs and top boxes from Danley.  I'd use this event as a reference if this issue comes up for you again.

http://puregroovesystems.com/news-events-2/

Thanks for the info, Rick.  I've mentioned Pure Groove to promoters.  They are well-known in CA, FL and East Coast, but not the midwest (yet.)

Just my luck that the venue I was doing at SXSW -- with (4) SH46 and (8) TH118 -- got shut down the day before Wiz Khalifa was to perform...

Best,
JR

Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Jeffrey Knorr - CobraSound.com on April 02, 2015, 10:26:04 am
I'm about to pull the trigger on 4 new TH118's...sight unseen. Buying solely based on what I've read here.

 Please convince me I'm doing the right thing.  :)

Hi Jamin,

We've been happy DSL users and dealers for quite a while now.  I've been lucky to have SH50's, SH46's, SH96HO's and SM80's with TH115's and TH118's pass through our shop.  The TH118's are excellent for portable live sound use.  As has been described in this thread, their output, sound quality, price point, and portability are hard to beat. I don't think that you'll be disappointed with their performance.  We've used them for everything from Bluegrass to EDM and always been thrilled!  We've also sold quite a few boxes (including to other forum members here) which have also been happy with their purchases.  Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help you get exactly what you need.

Thank you,

Jeff
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Doug Fowler on April 02, 2015, 10:55:15 am
This might float yer boat:

Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Mike Maly on April 02, 2015, 11:33:23 am
So what is an average selling price of a TH118?


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Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Ted Christensen on April 02, 2015, 11:51:02 am
This might float yer boat:

I hope there are barricades to protect those fancy speakers. I could see a large drunk crowd getting those very messy.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John L Nobile on April 02, 2015, 12:06:25 pm
I hope there are barricades to protect those fancy speakers. I could see a large drunk crowd getting those very messy.

You may not be able to get close to those when they'e pumping or light a cigarette lol
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Doug Fowler on April 02, 2015, 12:13:31 pm
I hope there are barricades to protect those fancy speakers. I could see a large drunk crowd getting those very messy.

Only bike rack.  Sigh.  Yeah, sometimes you have to retrieve things from the innards.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Jamin Lynch on April 02, 2015, 12:19:09 pm
This might float yer boat:

Not sure if those will fit in my 5 x 8 trailer. I'll try though. :o
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Doug Fowler on April 02, 2015, 12:32:38 pm
Not sure if those will fit in my 5 x 8 trailer. I'll try though. :o

The killer small setup is 2x TH-118 on their sides with an SM80 in the side pole mount.  This is pretty nice as well :-)

Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Doug Fowler on April 02, 2015, 01:16:40 pm
Sorry for the thread hijack, last one, I promise....

BC-415s in endfire tuned to 50 Hz, 2x2 SH46 above.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Scott Carneval on April 02, 2015, 01:24:01 pm
Doug who's the guy climbing the truss?  Is that a punter or a stagehand? Haha


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Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Doug Fowler on April 02, 2015, 01:33:04 pm
Doug who's the guy climbing the truss?  Is that a punter or a stagehand? Haha


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It's Miami EDM.  Stagehands and Punters are interchangeable.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John Rutirasiri on April 02, 2015, 01:34:22 pm
This might float yer boat:
Now that's what I call an EDM machine.  DAS what?
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 02, 2015, 01:36:08 pm
It's Miami EDM.  Stagehands and Punters are interchangeable.
Go ahead and through "DJ's" into that mix as well.

Most people have a thumb drive in their pocket-just waiting for the "off chance" they can "make it to the desk"-------------
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John L Nobile on April 02, 2015, 01:45:36 pm
This might float yer boat:

I love the look of those speakers , no grill and painted. I have to stay with black but I've been thinking of taking the grills off. That way I don't have to try to explain what a horn is to people.Just point up.
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Tim Weaver on April 02, 2015, 02:06:15 pm
Ugh. No grills=lots of shop time removing beer cans, underwear, and condoms.....damhik
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John Rutirasiri on April 02, 2015, 02:39:58 pm
Ugh. No grills=lots of shop time removing beer cans, underwear, and condoms.....damhik
A guy urinated (I kid you not) on one of my TH118s because he didn't want to lose his spot by the stage.  Thank God no acoustic foam on the grill...

JR
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: John Roesli on April 02, 2015, 05:50:14 pm
All I can say is I have two of these and they are fantastic!!!  All science aside...the thrust of the sound is forward so good news when we mix side stage...it's like standing behind a piece of fixed artillery.  That said, at  more normal audio levels they also sound very warm and rounded, with SH60's on top I get the Cheshire Cat smile every time I mix with the system.   
Title: Buying TH118's
Post by: Roch Lafleur on April 05, 2015, 11:24:02 pm
I bought 4 used TH118 from a forum member a couple weekends ago. Drove 8hrs (one way) to get them. I finally got to try them yesterday, and compared them to a friend's SB1000's. We both agreed that it would take approx 1.5 SB1000 to keep up to 1 TH118 with the Danley sounding better, fuller, rounder. We somewhat expected this but we're still skeptical until we heard. It's not just hype. They do sound amazing. He just messaged me that his 8 SB1000's are for sale and he's likely replacing them with 4 DBH218. And the little SM80 did keep up with 3 x TH118!!! Mind is still blown. Can't wait for summer festivals to start.

After a couple of hours, we just had to try all 4 subs with 1  SM80. Video starts at 100' and moves back to 300'. Just iPhone mic, but gives you an idea if you listen with good headphones.

http://youtu.be/PftZODVHak4
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Nils Erickson on April 06, 2015, 12:13:34 am
Buy 'em Jamin.  I have 4 Th115s, and 3 Th118 (hope to get another this year), and a pair of TH minis.  Amazing. And very portable; I can move them easily by myself.  I do sound for a lot of bands at events (weddings, corporate, parties, etc.).  Typically I use one SRX725 over one (or two) sub per side and it kills.  The system doubles up very easily for bigger shows.  Last weekend I had two SRX over one TH118 per side(for coverage), and truthfully I could not use all the low end I had available in the venue.
 I am never pushing the subs all the way and don't feel like I am missing low end either. 
Hope that helps...
Nils
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Corey Scogin on April 06, 2015, 09:47:10 am

I bought 4 used TH118 from a forum member a couple weekends ago. Drove 8hrs (one way) to get them. I finally got to try them yesterday, and compared them to a friend's SB1000's. We both agreed that it would take approx 1.5 SB1000 to keep up to 1 TH118 with the Danley sounding better, fuller, rounder. We somewhat expected this but we're still skeptical until we heard. It's not just hype. They do sound amazing. He just messaged me that his 8 SB1000's are for sale and he's likely replacing them with 4 DBH218. And the little SM80 did keep up with 3 x TH118!!! Mind is still blown. Can't wait for summer festivals to start.

After a couple of hours, we just had to try all 4 subs with 1  SM80. Video starts at 100' and moves back to 300'. Just iPhone mic, but gives you an idea if you listen with good headphones.

http://youtu.be/PftZODVHak4

Apparently Ivan or someone else at Danley liked your video. They posted it to Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=822019551167513&id=126113687424773
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Steve Garris on April 06, 2015, 09:39:02 pm
Apparently Ivan or someone else at Danley liked your video. They posted it to Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=822019551167513&id=126113687424773

 I did too - that's effing amazing! I think I just blew up my computer sub listening to that!
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Tom Roche on April 06, 2015, 10:37:59 pm
After a couple of hours, we just had to try all 4 subs with 1  SM80. Video starts at 100' and moves back to 300'. Just iPhone mic, but gives you an idea if you listen with good headphones.

http://youtu.be/PftZODVHak4
Very impressive!
Title: Re: Buying TH118's
Post by: Ivan Beaver on April 07, 2015, 07:31:19 am
I did too - that's effing amazing! I think I just blew up my computer sub listening to that!
Listening on headphones is almost always the best way to get the closest to what recordings sound like.

WHen you play them back through "other speakers" the recording "takes on the sound" of the new speaker system.

Basically it is called "generation loss", which is an older term for testing quality of tape decks, but still is very relavent to loudspeakers.

If you REALLY WANT TO BE AMAZED, try it with your speakers (whatever they are) and see how QUICKLY you can't even recognize the song any more.


Play a track through a single speaker with mic in front of it.

Then play the recording back through the same speaker (and mic) and record it.  Now play the new recording back through the speaker. Repeat as needed until you start to laugh-OR get really MAD----------------

This is a good way to get an idea how accurate the loudspeaker is.  The more accurate it is, the less coloration it will add each time.

If it is bad-you will really hear it after just a couple of times.

Most headphones (even cheap ones) are much better than stand alone loudspeakers.