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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 03:02:14 pm

Title: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 03:02:14 pm
So someone told me to look at D&B stuff instead of just L-Acoustics and I believe I have read that the J-Sub (not the infra) from D&B needs an entire D12 Amp just for itself, is that correct?





Thanks in advance
James Richmor
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 24, 2014, 03:08:20 pm
So someone told me to look at D&B stuff instead of just L-Acoustics and I believe I have read that the J-Sub (not the infra) from D&B needs an entire D12 Amp just for itself, is that correct?

Thanks in advance
James Richmor

Why do you continue to post noob questions in the professional section of the Forums?
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 03:09:43 pm
Why do you continue to post noob questions in the professional section of the Forums?

Because you guys are professional's and therefore would be able to answer them since at least some of you have most likely worked with that sub
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 24, 2014, 03:16:14 pm
Because you guys are professional's and therefore would be able to answer them since at least some of you have most likely worked with that sub

The info you seek is available from the manufacturer website.  Since you are NOT a sound professional, you should be posting in the Lounge.  The answers you get will be just as valid.

Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 06:28:31 pm
Alrighty so now that this has been moved can some one please answer?
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Spenser Hamilton on September 24, 2014, 06:44:50 pm
Alrighty so now that this has been moved can some one please answer?

http://www.dbaudio.com/fileadmin/docbase/J-SUB_Manual_1.4EN.PDF

Yes, to take advantage of the different processing options you need two channels of amplification.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 06:55:57 pm
http://www.dbaudio.com/fileadmin/docbase/J-SUB_Manual_1.4EN.PDF

Yes, to take advantage of the different processing options you need two channels of amplification.

Beautiful Thank you
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 24, 2014, 07:12:11 pm
Beautiful Thank you

As I said, the info was readily available on the d&b website.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Tom Roche on September 24, 2014, 07:40:46 pm
As I said, the info was readily available on the d&b website.

Yes, but it would have been easier for him if you just answered his question.  ::) 
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 24, 2014, 07:45:35 pm
Yes, but it would have been easier for him if you just answered his question.  ::)

I did answer the question.  I told him exactly where the info was.  If he's too damned lazy to Google the site and wants to be spoon-fed, that's not my problem.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 09:37:24 pm
I did answer the question.  I told him exactly where the info was.  If he's too damned lazy to Google the site and wants to be spoon-fed, that's not my problem.

I was looking under the product brochure for the j-series rather then the individual manual for the J-sub, that's why i didn't find it. looks like i'll have to get around 20 amplifiers just for the subs...........
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 24, 2014, 09:53:55 pm

I was looking under the product brochure for the j-series rather then the individual manual for the J-sub, that's why i didn't find it. looks like i'll have to get around 20 amplifiers just for the subs...........

For what?  Your imaginary partners imaginary event in the imaginary venue?

This seems to be a continuance of your first thread where you trolled and fabricated for pages and pages. 
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Bob Leonard on September 24, 2014, 10:07:53 pm
And Tina sang, trolling, trolling, trolling on a river.....
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 10:11:47 pm
For what?  Your imaginary partners imaginary event in the imaginary venue?

This seems to be a continuance of your first thread where you trolled and fabricated for pages and pages.


My goodness there was no trolling there and there is no trolling here everything i posted was correct with the exception of the partner. The venue is very real i was there on Sunday checking the windows thankfully they're double paned in the lobby and as for that door we're going to attach fiber glass panels like this http://www.zoro.com/i/G6558964/?category=4458  on the inside and outside of the doors since they claim to reduce 35db 
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 24, 2014, 10:22:25 pm

My goodness there was no trolling there and there is no trolling here everything i posted was correct with the exception of the partner. The venue is very real i was there on Sunday checking the windows thankfully they're double paned in the lobby and as for that door we're going to attach fiber glass panels like this http://www.zoro.com/i/G6558964/?category=4458  on the inside and outside of the doors since they claim to reduce 35db

We?  I assume you are using the "royal we"...

Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 10:23:52 pm
We?  I assume you are using the "royal we"...

We as in Me (The LD, Promoter,Spec'ed the PA,) and my friend who is just putting in a small amount of money
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 24, 2014, 10:32:41 pm
We as in Me (The LD, Promoter,Spec'ed the PA,) and my friend who is just putting in a small amount of money

Sorry, but "a small amount of money" won't buy the knobs for the 20 amps you imagine you need for your imaginary system for your imaginary event.

As to the fiberglass "sound reduction panels" you linked, you can imagine that 1" thick material will reduce  the LF leakage from your imaginary venue, but you would be very, very mistaken.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 24, 2014, 10:46:41 pm

My goodness there was no trolling there and there is no trolling here everything i posted was correct with the exception of the partner.

You fabricated the partner (read "lied") in 31 posts over 8 pages.  And you claim not to be a troll...
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 10:51:18 pm
Sorry, but "a small amount of money" won't buy the knobs for the 20 amps you imagine you need for your imaginary system for your imaginary event.

As to the fiberglass "sound reduction panels" you linked, you can imagine that 1" thick material will reduce  the LF leakage from your imaginary venue, but you would be very, very mistaken.

Thats why i plan on using 4 layers of those panels on the inside and outside that should at the very least reduce the high and mid frequency's. as for the cost of the PA i am well aware that this will cost a lot, so far without front fills & a mixer i am at around $10.2k
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 24, 2014, 10:59:32 pm
Thats why i plan on using 4 layers of those panels on the inside and outside that should at the very least reduce the high and mid frequency's.

Those are exit doors.  You can't compromise them by putting enough panels to make an actual difference without violating fire and safety codes.

But i'm not afraid you'll cause any damage as this whole thing is still a trollish fantasy. 
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 11:08:09 pm
Those are exit doors.  You can't compromise them by putting enough panels to make an actual difference without violating fire and safety codes.

But i'm not afraid you'll cause any damage as this whole thing is still a trollish fantasy.

Those Panels are fire rated to ASTM E-84, now i'll admit i have no idea what exactly that means but im sure it means something. I understand that LF is extremely difficult to control but with those panels my idea was to reduce the MF and HF that would be most easily annoying to the hotel imo. This event will happen It's only a matter of when. Maybe 1 year from now, perhaps 2 years but it will happen.

Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 24, 2014, 11:10:19 pm
Those are exit doors.  You can't compromise them by putting enough panels to make an actual difference without violating fire and safety codes.

But i'm not afraid you'll cause any damage as this whole thing is still a trollish fantasy.

I am peeing myself right now !!!
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 24, 2014, 11:20:44 pm
I am peeing myself right now !!!

TMI, DD, TMI.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 11:26:56 pm
Forget everything you've been thinking.  You don't have enough height in that room to effectively deploy a "line array".

If the promoter wants something brown and French, I'd suggest truffles.

That's a personal favorite of mine......anyways yeahh fiber glass
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 24, 2014, 11:30:58 pm
When you're in a hole……….
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 24, 2014, 11:33:20 pm
That's a personal favorite of mine......anyways yeahh fiber glass

Merde!!!

(also brown and french)
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 24, 2014, 11:38:12 pm
What i've learned so far is the venue is horrible for my use. You can't just ask some one how far apart an array should be spaced, Exit's can not be compromised by fiber glass panels (but they will be) , PA systems cost lots of money, the concrete walls might block out some of the MF & HF but not really the LF , This event will not happen anytime remotely soon/
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 25, 2014, 04:41:57 am
If your daddy or some other wealthy person that is vested enough in you to give you a quarter of a million bucks to simply go away and amuse yourself actually exists then I would fly out to the west coast just to watch the fiasco of someone who has never done this before implode.

What possibly chemical substances could cause you to be so deluded that you think you are qualified to execute on any facet of this production?

Participating in your fantasy is a bit of voyeuristic fun.




Sent from my To Be Filled By O.E.M. using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Chris Tsanjoures on September 25, 2014, 11:48:05 am
so far without front fills & a mixer i am at around $10.2k

*snort*

You will be lucky to find a used d12 for under 4k. And you need how many? d&B is a real company, so unless you have real money....nothing to see there....move along.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 11:59:11 am
*snort*

You will be lucky to find a used d12 for under 4k. And you need how many? d&B is a real company, so unless you have real money....nothing to see there....move along.

This is a rental not a purchased system. the rental house has racks of 3 D12's for $225 Each
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 12:14:46 pm
If your daddy or some other wealthy person that is vested enough in you to give you a quarter of a million bucks to simply go away and amuse yourself actually exists then I would fly out to the west coast just to watch the fiasco of someone who has never done this before implode.

What possibly chemical substances could cause you to be so deluded that you think you are qualified to execute on any facet of this production?

Participating in your fantasy is a bit of voyeuristic fun.


Sent from my To Be Filled By O.E.M. using Tapatalk



I actually do not have money to pay for this event currently which is why i do not go to some one who actually knows what they are doing since i can only imagine they would want to be paid for they're help. As for you flying out i would love to have you out here I think it would be great for some one to have a front row seat and be able to report everything they see back to the forums. About me being qualified, i am not. the reason i am putting together a D&B system is because i can not go to an L-acoustics rental house and ask them to put together a quote for something where the venue is not confirmed and i have no money to pay them. With D&B i can ask for the rental price of each individual item and using that info i can just fill out the quantity's and do the math to figure out how much it will cost.
 


Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 25, 2014, 12:26:12 pm
It just gets better and better.  Where is Alan Funt?

Popcorn and soft drinks are available in the lobby.... ;)
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 12:29:06 pm
They're actually available stage right and left inside the hall
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 25, 2014, 12:33:28 pm


I actually do not have money to pay for this event currently which is why i do not go to some one who actually knows what they are doing since i can only imagine they would want to be paid for they're help. As for you flying out i would love to have you out here I think it would be great for some one to have a front row seat and be able to report everything they see back to the forums. About me being qualified, i am not. the reason i am putting together a D&B system is because i can not go to an L-acoustics rental house and ask them to put together a quote for something where the venue is not confirmed and i have no money to pay them. With D&B i can ask for the rental price of each individual item and using that info i can just fill out the quantity's and do the math to figure out how much it will cost.
Since you admit you don't know what you are doing-exactly what "MATH" are you going to use to figure out how one system compares to another?

How do you know what parts/models to use?

I a line array from brand A won't fit-then what makes you think a line array from brand B will fit?  I guess it is part of the "math"???????????????

BTW-Since money is an issue you are going about it TOTALLY WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you rent a whole system from somebody who will come set it up-tune it-run it and tear it down, it will be WAAAAYYYYYY cheaper than renting individual pieces.  And if you rent it yourself-how do you know how to put it together-tune it etc?

There is generally no cost to go talk to a REAL sound company and at least get an idea of what it would cost for them to do the gig.

All it costs you is a little bit your time-which you seem to have plenty of by trying to come up with ideas that either won't work or don't make sense.

Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 12:40:59 pm
Since you admit you don't know what you are doing-exactly what "MATH" are you going to use to figure out how one system compares to another?

How do you know what parts/models to use?

I a line array from brand A won't fit-then what makes you think a line array from brand B will fit?  I guess it is part of the "math"???????????????

BTW-Since money is an issue you are going about it TOTALLY WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you rent a whole system from somebody who will come set it up-tune it-run it and tear it down, it will be WAAAAYYYYYY cheaper than renting individual pieces.  And if you rent it yourself-how do you know how to put it together-tune it etc?

There is generally no cost to go talk to a REAL sound company and at least get an idea of what it would cost for them to do the gig.

All it costs you is a little bit your time-which you seem to have plenty of by trying to come up with ideas that either won't work or don't make sense.

The Math i am doing is nothing more then finding out how much the PA will cost the numbers i am using are

x24 D&B Audiotechnik J-12 Element's         
x10 D&B Audiotechnik J-8 Front Fill's       
x24 D&B Audiotechnik J-Sub-woofers         
x4  D&B Audiotechnik M2 Monitor's           
x4  D&B Audiotechnik Amp Rack (Array only) 
x8  D&B Audiotechnik Amp Rack (Subs only)
x2  D&B Audiotechnik Amp Rack (Front Fill) 
x1  D&B Audiotechnik Amp Rack (Monitors)   

I would hire a sound engineer to tune the system. In the last thread pretty much everyone said it was going to cost at least 10k which is the number i am at right now without front fills and a mixer and an engineer, so more or less its the same cost and im not comparing the systems at all I am simply just filling out numbers of what i think i will need based on what i've been told by you guys and what i've read. looking at it now i may have too many subs but you guys say its pretty normal to have lots of subs for edm.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Robert Piascik on September 25, 2014, 12:56:53 pm
OOOh! OOOh! Hire me! Hire me to be engineer! I have NO experience with this system either!!
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 25, 2014, 12:58:13 pm
The Math i am doing is nothing more then finding out how much the PA will cost the numbers i am using are

x24 D&B Audiotechnik J-12 Element's         
x10 D&B Audiotechnik J-8 Front Fill's       
x24 D&B Audiotechnik J-Sub-woofers         
x4  D&B Audiotechnik M2 Monitor's           
x4  D&B Audiotechnik Amp Rack (Array only) 
x8  D&B Audiotechnik Amp Rack (Subs only)
x2  D&B Audiotechnik Amp Rack (Front Fill) 
x1  D&B Audiotechnik Amp Rack (Monitors)   

I would hire a sound engineer to tune the system. In the last thread pretty much everyone said it was going to cost at least 10k which is the number i am at right now without front fills and a mixer and an engineer, so more or less its the same cost and im not comparing the systems at all I am simply just filling out numbers of what i think i will need based on what i've been told by you guys and what i've read. looking at it now i may have too many subs but you guys say its pretty normal to have lots of subs for edm.
I will ask ONE MORE TIME (trying to keep it simple with just a single question)-what makes you think this system will fit when the other would not?
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 12:58:29 pm
OOOh! OOOh! Hire me! Hire me to be engineer! I have NO experience with this system either!!

Yeah.....i don't know about that
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Thomas Le on September 25, 2014, 01:03:08 pm
So... just tuning? Who's running the system? You?

/s
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 01:07:02 pm
So... just tuning? Who's running the system? You?

/s

It is an EDM show and at every show i've been in FOH the sound engineer more or less just stands/sits there  (no offence to anyone who's worked them)
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 01:09:38 pm
I will ask ONE MORE TIME (trying to keep it simple with just a single question)-what makes you think this system will fit when the other would not?

The Other system would have worked fine i am sure as i said the only reason im considering this system is because i can find out exactly how much it will cost me without having to contact the rental house about this. As it was Once said on this board "The K2 is the answer to the J-12" i was fortunate enough to have some one send me a sound vision screenshoot of the venue with a 12 box a side K2 rig and it looks pretty good to me
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 25, 2014, 01:09:45 pm
It just gets better and better.  Where is Alan Funt?

Popcorn and soft drinks are available in the lobby.... ;)

This started with a thread in the Big
boy section, was locked and re-posted in the Lounge.  It has now gained enough downward momentum to be headed for the Basement.

Beyond that...GEARSLUTZ.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Thomas Le on September 25, 2014, 01:10:24 pm
It is an EDM show and at every show i've been in FOH the sound engineer more or less just stands/sits there  (no offence to anyone who's worked them)

Not exactly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4iBGI4O2Ck&list=UULU5LoeyT9q2F4txMcrvUnQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4iBGI4O2Ck&list=UULU5LoeyT9q2F4txMcrvUnQ)
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 01:13:05 pm
Not exactly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4iBGI4O2Ck&list=UULU5LoeyT9q2F4txMcrvUnQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4iBGI4O2Ck&list=UULU5LoeyT9q2F4txMcrvUnQ)

Lol i've actually seen that video many times i was looking at using a Leo System for this show. The thing about that show is they have a much large PA then i plan on using and it's out doors
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 25, 2014, 01:25:30 pm
James...

Bless you for your even keel and good humor.  Enjoy your dreams and try not to go into debt for them.  If you ever raise enough money to do a real show, hire everything done for you.  Please don't try to DIY.

Good luck.  Write if you get work...
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 01:41:29 pm
James...

Bless you for your even keel and good humor.  Enjoy your dreams and try not to go into debt for them.  If you ever raise enough money to do a real show, hire everything done for you.  Please don't try to DIY.

Good luck.  Write if you get work...

This show will take place i can promise it and i will indeed hire everything except the lighting design.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 25, 2014, 02:02:50 pm
This show will take place i can promise it and i will indeed hire everything except the lighting design.

Having read all the posts here, I just want to say this:

The main thing I have learned over the years is to know when I am out of my depth and not to be afraid to ask for help. The most successful businessmen in the world learned to delegate very early on in their carreers.

We cannot all be experts at everything and networking is a wonderful resource available to us all allowing us to put each skill set in the right hands. 

Please do not let your pride prevent you from taking the appropriate steps to do this right.
 
That way, you can handle the lights, the sound experts can handle the sound and the show is a success…ta da..
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 25, 2014, 02:10:04 pm
It is an EDM show and at every show i've been in FOH the sound engineer more or less just stands/sits there  (no offence to anyone who's worked them)
Agreed.  I usually try to catch a nap-walk around to other stages etc.

Depending on the artist there is not usually much to do.

This will piss off many-but that aspect I REALLY enjoy about the EDM shows.  No set changes-no line checks every hour-no monitors to deal with (The DJs have their own level control and no mixing)

No running around trying to get gear back from bands that are trying to walk off with mics/stands/cables/dis etc.

Generally once the show starts, there is nothing to do-except keep an eye on the amps and limiters etc.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 25, 2014, 02:11:23 pm
The Other system would have worked fine i am sure as i said the only reason im considering this system is because i can find out exactly how much it will cost me without having to contact the rental house about this.
Why are you SO AFRAID to contact them?  They get calls all the time about gigs that they don't do.

It should not cost you anything-unless you are embarassed to do so----------
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 25, 2014, 02:39:13 pm
Why are you SO AFRAID to contact them?  They get calls all the time about gigs that they don't do.

It should not cost you anything-unless you are embarassed to do so----------

Ivan, et al...

Contacting a sound company about realizing your pet dreams runs the risk of injecting reality into the situation.  There is a very real danger of losing the hope inherent in dreams when the dreams are realized.  You're left with reality and there is often a very shocking gap between the two.

Yet one may take some satisfaction in the effort.  But in the end the dream is gone...

Edit:

Go to YouTube and find the movie "Shirley Valentine".  start at 1:00:00 and watch for 6 minutes.  Great treatment of dreams culminating with Tom Conti's line, "Dreams...they are never where you expect them to be."
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 08:38:33 pm
Why are you SO AFRAID to contact them?  They get calls all the time about gigs that they don't do.

It should not cost you anything-unless you are embarassed to do so----------

I do not want to contact the rental house because the venue itself has not even been approached by me for this event
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 25, 2014, 08:51:07 pm
I do not want to contact the rental house because the venue itself has not even been approached by me for this event

 ???
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 08:52:55 pm
???

Exactly but the great news is that PA system i was working on spec'ing is only $14,575.50. that's a bit more then 10k
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 25, 2014, 08:55:20 pm
I do not want to contact the rental house because the venue itself has not even been approached by me for this event
SO if you have not been approached-it seems as if you are doing a lot of planning and work for something that apparently you have no voice in.

As others have said-it seems like a pipe dream on your part.

If I was the person putting on the gig-I would feel better hiring somebody who knows what is going on and who does this for a living.  A lot of money can be riding on these types of events.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 25, 2014, 08:57:08 pm
Exactly but the great news is that PA system i was working on spec'ing is only $14,575.50. that's a bit more then 10k
Did you include all the speaker and line level cables?

Does it include a power distro?  How much feeder cable do you need

And so forth-----------
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 25, 2014, 08:59:55 pm
I do not want to contact the rental house because the venue itself has not even been approached by me for this event

So the way to approach potential production companies is like this:

"Hi, I'm James and I'm putting together an estimate for a (fill in nature of event - EDM, concert, family reunion etc).  The system will need to cover about XXXX Sq FT/meters, expected attendance is XXXX, the venue is TBD but could be (name your venue and a couple alternates).  Date is also TBD but anticipated to be xx/xx."

If you did that with me, I'd ask you some other questions about the expected artists and any special needs they might have, whether or you or I contract the needed stagehand labor, how the insurance will be handled, etc and then based on those answers, generate a quote that is valid for 15 days.

I expect any professional supplier would do the same.  You're not promising anything and they're not out the time and effort to advance a show that may not happen.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 09:04:00 pm
Did you include all the speaker and line level cables?

Does it include a power distro?  How much feeder cable do you need

And so forth-----------

Uhhhh It has the price of speaker cables but not Line Level cables and no distro...........or feeder...perfect
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 09:09:18 pm
So the way to approach potential production companies is like this:

"Hi, I'm James and I'm putting together an estimate for a (fill in nature of event - EDM, concert, family reunion etc).  The system will need to cover about XXXX Sq FT/meters, expected attendance is XXXX, the venue is TBD but could be (name your venue and a couple alternates).  Date is also TBD but anticipated to be xx/xx."

If you did that with me, I'd ask you some other questions about the expected artists and any special needs they might have, whether or you or I contract the needed stagehand labor, how the insurance will be handled, etc and then based on those answers, generate a quote that is valid for 15 days.

I expect any professional supplier would do the same.  You're not promising anything and they're not out the time and effort to advance a show that may not happen.

I will do exactly this in fact i'll copy and paste it if you don't mind, now i just have to wait to acquire more money because as it is now i have literally less then 1k so the event is pretty far away from happening as you may imagine and i do not want to approach the sound company with so little money that i couldn't even take a guess as to when the event would happen.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 25, 2014, 09:11:36 pm
Uhhhh It has the price of speaker cables but not Line Level cables and no distro...........or feeder...perfect
How are we supposed to know what was included in the quote-since you didn't list items.

When renting pieces-it is REAL easy to forget important things LIKE A POWER DISTRO AND FEEDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A real sound company will have that on the truck and has a lot more flexibility for dealing with situations that come up.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 25, 2014, 09:13:53 pm
...as it is now i have literally less then 1k...

Wanna buy some magic beans?
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 09:17:06 pm
How are we supposed to know what was included in the quote-since you didn't list items.

When renting pieces-it is REAL easy to forget important things LIKE A POWER DISTRO AND FEEDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A real sound company will have that on the truck and has a lot more flexibility for dealing with situations that come up.

It is indeed easy. If i used a lighting type distro like this one http://www.motionlabs.com/download/1300-400A-18-2-XX.pdf Would that work? and i didn't include feeder cable because i don't expect that to cost major amounts of money so i left it out
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 25, 2014, 09:17:25 pm
Wanna buy some magic beans?

Not really
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 25, 2014, 09:24:54 pm
I will do exactly this in fact i'll copy and paste it if you don't mind, now i just have to wait to acquire more money because as it is now i have literally less then 1k so the event is pretty far away from happening as you may imagine and i do not want to approach the sound company with so little money that i couldn't even take a guess as to when the event would happen.

James, you're not grokking the concept as presented.  The idea is that if you take the approach I outline, you're not obligating anyone (including yourself), you're getting estimates to determine the viability of this proposed gig.

We do this shit every day - getting quotes to promoters and venues so they can assess the potential of a proposed show.  You won't be burning bridges if you're up front about the nature of your RFP or RFQ inquiry.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 26, 2014, 12:21:56 am
James, you're not grokking the concept as presented.  The idea is that if you take the approach I outline, you're not obligating anyone (including yourself), you're getting estimates to determine the viability of this proposed gig.

We do this shit every day - getting quotes to promoters and venues so they can assess the potential of a proposed show.  You won't be burning bridges if you're up front about the nature of your RFP or RFQ inquiry.

Hummm alright Tim, i am going to email a Sound company i hope they react as you expect them to.


EDIT: i've sent an email off to the obvious people who carry L-Acoustics in the LA area.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 26, 2014, 12:55:26 am
They are "just standing there" to protect the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gear from improper operation.


Sent from my To Be Filled By O.E.M. using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Michael Gorecki on September 26, 2014, 01:43:56 am
I never saw motors mentioned once in either thread. That's one hell of a ground stack. ;D



Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 26, 2014, 01:50:52 am
@ Scott i do understand that and i meant no offence with my comment

@ Michael I think it was mentioned only once in the original thread that the venue's ceiling can not support the weight of the array's so we will build scaffolding towers for the Arrays to be flown in and the venue has their own rigging company which provides motors
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 26, 2014, 02:13:47 am
@ Scott i do understand that and i meant no offence with my comment

@ Michael I think it was mentioned only once in the original thread that the venue's ceiling can not support the weight of the array's so we will build scaffolding towers for the Arrays to be flown in and the venue has their own rigging company which provides motors

James, the word is offense and you can't offend me.  As I mentioned this is entertaining.

Now that you admitted that this is somewhat of a fantasy the requirement for line arrays is in your head.  Especially if you don't have structural support why not consider a ground stack?  The Danley gear is economical and would stun your attendees with the quality.

Why is this venue so critical?  It sounds like you are forcing a square peg into a round hole.

You can't be emotional about this, it's not a chance for you to play with gear or say you have promoted an event.  If you get emotional it's much harder to walk away from something that doesn't make sense.  The decision needs to be risk vs reward, that's it. 

Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 26, 2014, 07:38:12 am
It is indeed easy. If i used a lighting type distro like this one http://www.motionlabs.com/download/1300-400A-18-2-XX.pdf Would that work? and i didn't include feeder cable because i don't expect that to cost major amounts of money so i left it out
I have no idea.

Getting power to the distro is pretty standard and common.

HOWEVER the DISTROBUTION side of it varies fro company to company-depending on how their racks are setup/wired-what amps are being used-at what voltage-with what connectors.

While there are some "common" ways-there are a good number of them and each distro is usually unique-unless you are just talking about regular edison plugs.  But you will need A LOT of them.

There is a reason it is called A SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is because it is designed to work TOGETHER.

Distro is a very common term-but I bet if you asked for a description of everybodys distro  here-it would be different.

Sure you need a transmission for your car-but exactly what engine do you have?  They don't all fit-but basically do the same thing.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 26, 2014, 11:55:06 am
James, the word is offense and you can't offend me.  As I mentioned this is entertaining.

Now that you admitted that this is somewhat of a fantasy the requirement for line arrays is in your head.  Especially if you don't have structural support why not consider a ground stack?  The Danley gear is economical and would stun your attendees with the quality.

Why is this venue so critical?  It sounds like you are forcing a square peg into a round hole.

You can't be emotional about this, it's not a chance for you to play with gear or say you have promoted an event.  If you get emotional it's much harder to walk away from something that doesn't make sense.  The decision needs to be risk vs reward, that's it.

A quick google search and i can not seem to find any Danley gear over here in LA. The venue is critical because there is nothing else around here that has a 5k person capacity and is wide enough for me to use, there's an option to use a warehouse but i would imagine getting permits for that would be very hard and it would cost more than using a venue that already has permits. Pretty much what i mean by that is If i where to get a warehouse i'd have to bring in my own restrooms, ticket takers , concession stand staff, and generators.

About getting emotional The risk is high of course but the reward is just as high. There is no option to walk away.

Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 26, 2014, 12:00:12 pm
I have no idea.

Getting power to the distro is pretty standard and common.

HOWEVER the DISTROBUTION side of it varies fro company to company-depending on how their racks are setup/wired-what amps are being used-at what voltage-with what connectors.

While there are some "common" ways-there are a good number of them and each distro is usually unique-unless you are just talking about regular edison plugs.  But you will need A LOT of them.

There is a reason it is called A SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is because it is designed to work TOGETHER.

Distro is a very common term-but I bet if you asked for a description of everybodys distro  here-it would be different.

Sure you need a transmission for your car-but exactly what engine do you have?  They don't all fit-but basically do the same thing.

I suppose i will worry about that later then
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Mark Cadwallader on September 26, 2014, 12:21:48 pm

(Snip)

There is no option to walk away.

If that is really the case, then it appears that you have a non-business reason for your plans. (Which could be entirely reasonable; you might have promised a loved one you will do this event. I make no value judgment.)  Best wishes on your endeavors.  Mark C.

p.s.  The particular model of distro you listed is designed to use with 19 pin socapex connectors. That's a common lighting connector, but not commonly used for audio gear. 
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 26, 2014, 12:29:01 pm
If that is really the case, then it appears that you have a non-business reason for your plans. (Which could be entirely reasonable; you might have promised a loved one you will do this event. I make no value judgment.)  Best wishes on your endeavors.  Mark C.

p.s.  The particular model of distro you listed is designed to use with 19 pin socapex connectors. That's a common lighting connector, but not commonly used for audio gear.

I actually do have a business reason for doing this and i was thinking i could just use twist lock breakouts for the amps
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Guy Graham on September 26, 2014, 01:05:15 pm
Is this not a well executed, perfectly crafted and highly amusing practical joke being played out?

Either a strait jacket has come loose, or one of our peers is pissing their proverbial pants at the collective reaction to the ramblings of the invented idiot currently representing their surreal cause here.

I say well played that man (or woman) - you seem to have everyone fooled ... and successfully amused! Now time to own up...
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Debbie Dunkley on September 26, 2014, 01:09:52 pm
Is this not a well executed, perfectly crafted and highly amusing practical joke being played out?

Either a strait jacket has come loose, or one of our peers is pissing their proverbial pants at the collective reaction to the ramblings of the invented idiot currently representing their surreal cause here.

I say well played that man (or woman) - you seem to have everyone fooled ... and successfully amused! Now time to own up...

I am uncertain as to which side to jump...
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Thomas Le on September 26, 2014, 01:13:46 pm
Is this not a well executed, perfectly crafted and highly amusing practical joke being played out?

Either a strait jacket has come loose, or one of our peers is pissing their proverbial pants at the collective reaction to the ramblings of the invented idiot currently representing their surreal cause here.

I say well played that man (or woman) - you seem to have everyone fooled ... and successfully amused! Now time to own up...

I think so, since OP mentions he has no money...  We're all playing into his big fantasy.

I actually do not have money to pay for this event currently which is why i do not go to some one who actually knows what they are doing since i can only imagine they would want to be paid for they're help. As for you flying out i would love to have you out here I think it would be great for some one to have a front row seat and be able to report everything they see back to the forums. About me being qualified, i am not. the reason i am putting together a D&B system is because i can not go to an L-acoustics rental house and ask them to put together a quote for something where the venue is not confirmed and i have no money to pay them. With D&B i can ask for the rental price of each individual item and using that info i can just fill out the quantity's and do the math to figure out how much it will cost.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Guy Graham on September 26, 2014, 01:24:26 pm
I am uncertain as to which side to jump...

Look before you leap ;)
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 26, 2014, 01:51:00 pm
Unbelievable.....Look there is no joke here i am very real. The concept to do this event is also very real, I am utterly dumbstruck as to how you guys refuse to believe that i actually want to put on an EDM show.

Definition of Fantasy "the faculty or activity of imagining things, especially things that are impossible or improbable."

Now I can imagine most of you guys have worked very large events and if you have then you will know nothing in this business is impossible its simply a matter of how much it will cost to do.

Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Michael Gazdziak on September 26, 2014, 08:16:29 pm
Unbelievable.....Look there is no joke here i am very real. The concept to do this event is also very real, I am utterly dumbstruck as to how you guys refuse to believe that i actually want to put on an EDM show.

Definition of Fantasy "the faculty or activity of imagining things, especially things that are impossible or improbable."

Now I can imagine most of you guys have worked very large events and if you have then you will know nothing in this business is impossible its simply a matter of how much it will cost to do.

Nothing is impossible:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ruthblatt/2013/11/30/why-roadies-are-our-best-bet-for-typhoon-haiyan-relief-in-the-philippines/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/ruthblatt/2013/11/30/why-roadies-are-our-best-bet-for-typhoon-haiyan-relief-in-the-philippines/)
“Mr. President,” said former roadie and production manager for The Police Charlie Hernandez in April 2011, taking a pen out of his pocket, “I can get this pen anywhere on Earth in 72 hours.”

But not impossible is not cheap. 

Doing shows is business and businesses need to make money to remain being businesses. 

How this usually works: A promoter (you're in SoCal, so Goldenvoice is a good example you might have heard of) makes an investment/takes a gamble, and books a show.  They buy a band, rent a venue, rent lights, sound, video, whatever other production is required, hire labor, catering, etc.  Then they advertise the show and hope that enough people buy tickets, beer, and merch so that the promoter can cover their expenses.  If the expenses aren't covered, then the promoter won't be a business too much longer, and hopefully everyone else got paid in advance. 

What you seem to be doing doesn't correspond with this business model.  You might get lucky and sell a bunch of tickets and break even or maybe make money.  But probably this is a money pit. 

Have fun!  Make sure you have enough money to pay all the vendors or they probably won't unload the trucks the morning of, and then you definitely won't have a show.  As Tim said, they won't mind telling you how much money that will be even if you don't have a date or venue yet. 

Which French brown box supplier are you talking to? Rat? US Audio?
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 26, 2014, 08:38:25 pm
Nothing is impossible:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ruthblatt/2013/11/30/why-roadies-are-our-best-bet-for-typhoon-haiyan-relief-in-the-philippines/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/ruthblatt/2013/11/30/why-roadies-are-our-best-bet-for-typhoon-haiyan-relief-in-the-philippines/)
“Mr. President,” said former roadie and production manager for The Police Charlie Hernandez in April 2011, taking a pen out of his pocket, “I can get this pen anywhere on Earth in 72 hours.”

But not impossible is not cheap. 

Doing shows is business and businesses need to make money to remain being businesses. 

How this usually works: A promoter (you're in SoCal, so Goldenvoice is a good example you might have heard of) makes an investment/takes a gamble, and books a show.  They buy a band, rent a venue, rent lights, sound, video, whatever other production is required, hire labor, catering, etc.  Then they advertise the show and hope that enough people buy tickets, beer, and merch so that the promoter can cover their expenses.  If the expenses aren't covered, then the promoter won't be a business too much longer, and hopefully everyone else got paid in advance. 

What you seem to be doing doesn't correspond with this business model.  You might get lucky and sell a bunch of tickets and break even or maybe make money.  But probably this is a money pit. 

Have fun!  Make sure you have enough money to pay all the vendors or they probably won't unload the trucks the morning of, and then you definitely won't have a show.  As Tim said, they won't mind telling you how much money that will be even if you don't have a date or venue yet. 

Which French brown box supplier are you talking to? Rat? US Audio?

about the Business model you have put out i have the Lighting covered, there will be no video because i dont want the event to seem very American, i have the staging costs, the only production number i do not have is the PA Cost. Besides that i have most of the rest of the productions aspect covered.

The only thing i don't have is a venue, money or artists.


As for your last question who ever they are they seem to want to speak over the phone about this and im not interested in doing such a thing
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 26, 2014, 09:10:00 pm

The only thing i don't have is a venue, money or artists.



NOW I am REALLY confused.

You start out asking about a specific venue-with a specific ceiling height, with specific posts and you want to choose a different model line array because the other one won't fit.

And NOW you say you don't have a venue?

This just gets stranger as we go.

I could be wrong but I also thought there was a reply that said nobody had contacted you about actually providing for the gig.

This looks more like a dream every post-sorry.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 26, 2014, 09:14:57 pm
On page 6 of this thread i mentioned that about the venue, I was looking at another line array because at this rental house near me they have individual prices for everything that i could easily just ask for the individual items i think i would need and then do the math to calculate the cost of everything together, Not sure what you mean by not one has contacted me about providing for the event. As i mentioned the Lighting has already been taken care of that's usually a pretty easy thing to work on.

It seems like the only one who actually understands the full situation of this is Tim.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 26, 2014, 09:37:12 pm


This just gets stranger as we go.



This looks more like a dream every post-sorry.

I called troll on this yutz in his first (now locked) thread hashing this "subject".

See also my posts in this thread regarding dreams and dreamers.
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: James Richmor on September 26, 2014, 09:52:41 pm
I called troll on this yutz in his first (now locked) thread hashing this "subject".

See also my posts in this thread regarding dreams and dreamers.

why dick why...you cause me such mental trauma it hurts my spleen
Title: Re: Dedicated Amp for the D&B J-Sub?
Post by: Mac Kerr on September 26, 2014, 10:01:33 pm
why dick why...you cause me such mental trauma it hurts my spleen

James, please don't start another thread till you have real questions about professional audio. This endless blue skying about a non-existant event in a non-existant venue with no performers is not going to continue here.

This is not a support group for your production dreams.

Mac
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