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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Subwoofer Forum => Topic started by: walter potter on September 15, 2014, 07:46:01 pm

Title: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: walter potter on September 15, 2014, 07:46:01 pm
I'm somewhat new to powered PA systems, but, with that being said, I think I've got some pretty nice gear that I'm trying to upgrade......or at least figure out just what my options are.  Bottom line at this time is this:  I just acquired a pair of Yorkville Unity U15p speakers at a great price.  I own a Cerwin Vega P1800SX powered sub (pawn shop purchase for $200), and I'm wondering if the addition/purchase of a second P1800SX is a reasonable way to go to (pair up on each side as main FOH for our 5 piece classic rock band).  I've found one for $650 new.  We have various powered EVs and Mackies for our monitors.  Really trying to figure out the "correct" subs for the U15p mains.  Asked differently, is there a "correct" sub? 
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 15, 2014, 08:29:10 pm
As per forum rules you MUST use your full real name or the thread will be locked and no body will respond until you do so.
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: Art Welter on September 18, 2014, 03:55:54 pm
I own a Cerwin Vega P1800SX powered sub (pawn shop purchase for $200), and I'm wondering if the addition/purchase of a second P1800SX is a reasonable way to go to (pair up on each side as main FOH for our 5 piece classic rock band).    Really trying to figure out the "correct" subs for the U15p mains.  Asked differently, is there a "correct" sub?
Walter,

If a sub has the frequency response you want, and gets loud enough without too much distortion for your needs, it is "correct".

The P1800SX is rated at -3dB at 38 Hz, but probably is using a fair amount of built in EQ to achieve that response, so it won't get as loud down low as in the upper bass range when pushed to limit. The "peak" rating of the amp also won't last for low bass, figure about 122 dB real world low bass (not 136 dB).

A pair will be 6 dB louder than one, so if you are satisfied with the sound, go ahead and buy another one or three.

Art
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 18, 2014, 08:06:01 pm
You know I see so many guys get wrapped up in one MI level sub over the other.  I did the same thing,  grinding over buying more KW181 or the new EV ETX.

What I have found is the most sub 500 subs all deliver about the same performance.  The 500 to 1000 the same and the 1000 to 2000 the same. 

The physics behind a base reflex box wrt size and power place technical limits as to what you can achieve. 

Heck....Behringer makes a fur covered 18 that sells for under 300.  An aquaintance I really like had bought a pair.  It was very poorly constructed and would not servive frequent transport.  I told him to bring them to my house.

I unloaded them.  Added bracing...glue..better brads and some screws.  removed the crappy xover and rewired and soldered the wiring.  Thay had to be 3 years ago.  He knows now where to set the high pass, doesnt push them and they get the job done,  taking the load off the mains and adding some headroom.

Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on September 18, 2014, 11:30:45 pm
I own a Cerwin Vega P1800SX powered sub (pawn shop purchase for $200), and I'm wondering if the addition/purchase of a second P1800SX is a reasonable way to go to (pair up on each side as main FOH for our 5 piece classic rock band).  I've found one for $650 new.
The BIG problem with "budget" speakers is not sound quality or output SPL.. it's reliability. Turns out it's relatively easy to make a decent sounding speaker that gets reasonably loud, but it's really really hard to make it stay functional for any amount of time when every single component has to be spec'd at just barely adequate margins. So yes they can make it work.. but for how long? As far as where CV fits into the pro audio hierarchy many here will argue it doesn't, personally I have seen very few CV speakers that didn't fail sooner or later, that should tell you something.

  Really trying to figure out the "correct" subs for the U15p mains.  Asked differently, is there a "correct" sub?
There is no one correct sub but a good option would be one of Yorkvilles own offerings like the LS800p, that box costs a lot more than the CV but it has a very good track record, it gets very loud, sounds good with some processing, and is about as close as it gets to being bulletproof... I don't remember ever hearing about anybody having an issue with one. To put things into perspective the driver in this box would cost about $300 if you were to try and buy one, and you would find a similar level of components in those U15s.
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: walter potter on September 26, 2014, 06:33:10 am
I'm somewhat new to powered PA systems, but, with that being said, I think I've got some pretty nice gear that I'm trying to upgrade......or at least figure out just what my options are.  Bottom line at this time is this:  I just acquired a pair of Yorkville Unity U15p speakers at a great price.  I own a Cerwin Vega P1800SX powered sub (pawn shop purchase for $200), and I'm wondering if the addition/purchase of a second P1800SX is a reasonable way to go to (pair up on each side as main FOH for our 5 piece classic rock band).  I've found one for $650 new.  We have various powered EVs and Mackies for our monitors.  Really trying to figure out the "correct" subs for the U15p mains.  Asked differently, is there a "correct" sub?


Is a pair of LS700p Yorkvilles enough?  Is $700 a good price for them (I think yes)?  Thank you.
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on September 29, 2014, 10:16:15 am
Is a pair of LS700p Yorkvilles enough?  Is $700 a good price for them (I think yes)?


Yes that may be a good price for the pair but they're not a good match for your U15's or your intended use in my opinion, a good match would be a pair of LS800p's.
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: walter potter on September 29, 2014, 06:17:08 pm


Yes that may be a good price for the pair but they're not a good match for your U15's or your intended use in my opinion, a good match would be a pair of LS800p's.

That's what I thought......just not up for hauling 125# plus boxes.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: Guy Graham on September 29, 2014, 07:26:50 pm
That's what I thought......just not up for hauling 125# plus boxes.

...then either increase your budget, or limit your expectations!
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on September 30, 2014, 11:46:53 am
That's what I thought......just not up for hauling 125# plus boxes.  Thank you.

Oh I hear that.. the LS801 was suggested just because it's a Yorkville and is well known to be capable of very high output levels so you could explore the full output potential of the speakers you have already purchased. But that's not the only solution out there, the QSC KW181 and JBL PRX718XLF are also very reliable, good sounding powered subs that are significantly smaller and lighter than the LS801.
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: walter potter on October 01, 2014, 09:20:59 pm
Oh I hear that.. the LS801 was suggested just because it's a Yorkville and is well known to be capable of very high output levels so you could explore the full output potential of the speakers you have already purchased. But that's not the only solution out there, the QSC KW181 and JBL PRX718XLF are also very reliable, good sounding powered subs that are significantly smaller and lighter than the LS801.
I am now considering going all JBL PRX.  Tops either 712 or 715.  This would mean I would sell the Yorkville U15P pair.  There are quite a few nice PRX rigs on CL around the country, and I've inquired about a few of them.  I'm thinking maybe the 90+ pound Yorkvilles might be a little much in the weight department, and thinking I can get what we need out of a PRX matched system.

Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: walter potter on October 02, 2014, 05:15:53 pm
I am now considering going all JBL PRX.  Tops either 712 or 715.  This would mean I would sell the Yorkville U15P pair.  There are quite a few nice PRX rigs on CL around the country, and I've inquired about a few of them.  I'm thinking maybe the 90+ pound Yorkvilles might be a little much in the weight department, and thinking I can get what we need out of a PRX matched system.

Today here locally a pair of like new PRX 715 xlf subs popped up on CL.  After the exchange of $1,100, I am going to be the proud owner of them tomorrow morning.  I'm thinking they aren't enough for the U15P's, but I sure have read some good stuff about them.  May sell either if the price is right.
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: walter potter on November 22, 2014, 07:12:22 am
Today here locally a pair of like new PRX 715 xlf subs popped up on CL.  After the exchange of $1,100, I am going to be the proud owner of them tomorrow morning.  I'm thinking they aren't enough for the U15P's, but I sure have read some good stuff about them.  May sell either if the price is right.

I've decided to let the U15p pair go for $1700.....basically a 2 for 1 price.  Let me know if you are interested.
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: chuck clark on December 05, 2014, 01:05:43 am
  personally I have seen very few CV speakers that didn't fail sooner or later, that should tell you something.

uhh,...what?  I know a guy who has been beating the crap out of 16 Cerwin-Vega T-36 earthquakes for about 18 yrs. now. He finally had a failure last week when a new tech took all the compressors off the mix.  oops! 
     In MY experience you start having reliability issues when there are chinese parts involved.
Chuck 
Title: Re: Cerwin Vega P1800sx question(s)
Post by: Paul G. OBrien on December 05, 2014, 09:59:20 pm
uhh,...what?  I know a guy who has been beating the crap out of 16 Cerwin-Vega T-36 earthquakes for about 18 yrs. now.
Congrats to that guy but statistically those results are irrelevent. Go look for used CV subs online and invariably most you find will have blown or non original drivers. These things should not be that fragile but they are marketed to DJs who as a customer segment are well known for abusing equipment, but CV has to take some blame for advertising them as a 30hz box which is a full 20hz below tuning.
In MY experience you start having reliability issues when there are chinese parts involved.
My experience with CV extends back over 30yrs when chinese components weren't a factor and even then you would be hard pressed to find a CV fullrange cab with intact high frequency drivers.