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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => Installed Sound/Contracting => Topic started by: Jordan D. Hadwen on September 12, 2014, 11:43:11 pm

Title: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Jordan D. Hadwen on September 12, 2014, 11:43:11 pm
Hello there,

This is my first post on the forums, thank you thank you.

I am a free lance contractor and was approached by a golf club to look over their in-house sound system. They use a 70V PA amplifier run through wall mounted volume controls. One of these wall mounted volume controls has ceased to work. Upon inspection, the previous installers wrote "35w" on the volume control. Would there be harm done if I were to replace the volume control with a 100 watt rated volume control?

Thank you in advance,
Jordan D.
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 13, 2014, 02:39:37 am
Hello there,

This is my first post on the forums, thank you thank you.

I am a free lance contractor and was approached by a golf club to look over their in-house sound system. They use a 70V PA amplifier run through wall mounted volume controls. One of these wall mounted volume controls has ceased to work. Upon inspection, the previous installers wrote "35w" on the volume control. Would there be harm done if I were to replace the volume control with a 100 watt rated volume control?

Thank you in advance,
Jordan D.

Jordan, please change to your real name as noted when you sign up and post.  You won't get anything until you do that and the thread is locked.

I will tell you that you need some educating on how tapped transformer constant voltage systems work. 

Change your name please.

Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 13, 2014, 11:22:47 am
Hello there,

This is my first post on the forums, thank you thank you.

I am a free lance contractor and was approached by a golf club to look over their in-house sound system. They use a 70V PA amplifier run through wall mounted volume controls. One of these wall mounted volume controls has ceased to work. Upon inspection, the previous installers wrote "35w" on the volume control. Would there be harm done if I were to replace the volume control with a 100 watt rated volume control?

Thank you in advance,
Jordan D.
There is a difference between a regular 35watt L pad and a 35watt transformer tapped volume control.

Without knowing more information, we have no way of knowing where the "volume control" is located in the chain.

It could directly in the 70V line (in which it would be a stepped transformer) or it could be after the 70V stepdown transformer and directly controlling the level going to the 8 ohm speaker.

You said it has "stopped working".  Are sure it is the control?  and not a wiring issue?

What caused the volume control to stop working?  Did it just "break" or was it overpowered?

Whenever I look at a repair, I try to figure out what CAUSED the failure-NOT just fixing it and going on.

Sometimes you cannot figure out why, but it is always a good thing to try to understand.
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 13, 2014, 09:46:37 pm
There is a difference between a regular 35watt L pad and a 35watt transformer tapped volume control.

Without knowing more information, we have no way of knowing where the "volume control" is located in the chain.

It could directly in the 70V line (in which it would be a stepped transformer) or it could be after the 70V stepdown transformer and directly controlling the level going to the 8 ohm speaker.

You said it has "stopped working".  Are sure it is the control?  and not a wiring issue?

What caused the volume control to stop working?  Did it just "break" or was it overpowered?

Whenever I look at a repair, I try to figure out what CAUSED the failure-NOT just fixing it and going on.

Sometimes you cannot figure out why, but it is always a good thing to try to understand.

It is also important to note that if the volume control (L-Pad) contains the transformer (which is my guess with the very specific rating) then the 35w is not a rating specification but the amount of current tapped from the available current on the line.  Constant voltage systems use transformers to "tap off" specific amounts of power depending on the area to be covered, driver type etc.

To repair something you must first understand how it works.
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Jason Lavoie on September 14, 2014, 04:37:29 pm
Hello there,

This is my first post on the forums, thank you thank you.

I am a free lance contractor and was approached by a golf club to look over their in-house sound system. They use a 70V PA amplifier run through wall mounted volume controls. One of these wall mounted volume controls has ceased to work. Upon inspection, the previous installers wrote "35w" on the volume control. Would there be harm done if I were to replace the volume control with a 100 watt rated volume control?

Thank you in advance,
Jordan D.

No other model # or info on the volume control?
35W is a pretty typical value, and if it is indeed just a 70V volume control then yes replacing it with a bigger one is fine.
but as others have said, volume controls also come in versions that have a 70V input and 8ohm output so you need to either know exactly what you're replacing, or know what the load impedance is (you do have an impedance meter?)

Jason
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Scott Carneval on September 15, 2014, 07:26:17 pm
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that it's an Atlas AT35 as they're pretty common and the white decora finish would suit a golf clubhouse well.  If this is the case, then 35 watts is just the max power handling of the volume control.  A larger control would handle more power, but it will still work.  The AT35 is around $20-$30 though, so why not just replace it with the same? Assuming it is, in fact, an Atlas AT35...
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 15, 2014, 08:30:59 pm
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that it's an Atlas AT35 as they're pretty common and the white decora finish would suit a golf clubhouse well.  If this is the case, then 35 watts is just the max power handling of the volume control.  A larger control would handle more power, but it will still work.  The AT35 is around $20-$30 though, so why not just replace it with the same? Assuming it is, in fact, an Atlas AT35...
And assuming it is defective.

I wonder if it has been tested for proper operation or not?

Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Jordan D. Hadwen on September 16, 2014, 07:48:07 am
Thank you everyone, I did not realize that there was so much to constant voltage systems. I have been googling, searching and talking to as many people as I can about these systems and realize experience is key and of which I have none....

The volume control has no distinctive markings other than "Taiwan" and "RED - INPUT" "GREEN - OUTPUT" "BLACK -COMMON"

Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Jason Lavoie on September 16, 2014, 09:16:02 am
Thank you everyone, I did not realize that there was so much to constant voltage systems. I have been googling, searching and talking to as many people as I can about these systems and realize experience is key and of which I have none....

The volume control has no distinctive markings other than "Taiwan" and "RED - INPUT" "GREEN - OUTPUT" "BLACK -COMMON"

If there are no jumpers or settings then it is likely just a 70V volume control.
You should be pretty safe to remove the volume control and connect the speaker wires straight through to see if the speakers come on at full volume. if they do, then replace the control. if they don't then put it back and start looking for other problems.

Jason
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Lee Douglas on September 16, 2014, 09:16:11 am
And assuming it is defective.

And assuming is was properly sized for its load to begin with.  Perhaps that's why it may have failed.
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 16, 2014, 08:30:23 pm
Thank you everyone, I did not realize that there was so much to constant voltage systems. I have been googling, searching and talking to as many people as I can about these systems and realize experience is key and of which I have none....

The volume control has no distinctive markings other than "Taiwan" and "RED - INPUT" "GREEN - OUTPUT" "BLACK -COMMON"
Actually 70V systems are much easier to deal with than "normal" speaker systems.  All you need is simple simple addition to figure it out-no division as with "normal" systems.

So easy even a 5th grader could do it----------------------

How about a photo of the control?

That would go A LONG way-MUCH further than simply stating the colors.  Colors could be anything-while a photo will instantly tell what it is.

With only 3 terminals it could a normal L pad or a 70V transformer control.

Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC on September 18, 2014, 05:16:53 pm


So easy even a 5th grader could do it----------------------



Dunno about that with the "new math" and all.

-Hal
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Jordan D. Hadwen on September 23, 2014, 03:57:48 pm
Hello there,

This is my first post on the forums, thank you thank you.

I am a free lance contractor and was approached by a golf club to look over their in-house sound system. They use a 70V PA amplifier run through wall mounted volume controls. One of these wall mounted volume controls has ceased to work. Upon inspection, the previous installers wrote "35w" on the volume control. Would there be harm done if I were to replace the volume control with a 100 watt rated volume control?

Thank you in advance,
Jordan D.
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 23, 2014, 06:36:18 pm

That would be a 70V level control
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 24, 2014, 02:17:50 am
So use the same wattage, it is not the capacity of the speaker but the engineered coverage and original current budget design.

The idea is each xformer taps a certain amount of wattage for that speaker/s



Sent from my To Be Filled By O.E.M. using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC on September 24, 2014, 10:35:08 am

Shoulda done that in your first post, would have had your answer days ago.

AT-35 70 volt level control manufactured by Atlas and others.  Connect the speaker wires straight through temporarily to see if the speakers come up to full volume. Not saying it can't happen but I doubt the control is the problem, those are pretty bullet proof. Sometimes the switch becomes intermittent.

-Hal
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Ivan Beaver on September 24, 2014, 12:47:11 pm
Shoulda done that in your first post, would have had your answer days ago.

AT-35 70 volt level control manufactured by Atlas and others.  Connect the speaker wires straight through temporarily to see if the speakers come up to full volume. Not saying it can't happen but I doubt the control is the problem, those are pretty bullet proof. Sometimes the switch becomes intermittent.

-Hal
And some fast twisting of the knob could "restore" the connections-which can become corroded over time and the "wiping" of the contacts can often clean them-for awhile anyway.
Title: Re: Golf Club Audio Installation
Post by: Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC on September 24, 2014, 07:50:40 pm
And some fast twisting of the knob could "restore" the connections-which can become corroded over time and the "wiping" of the contacts can often clean them-for awhile anyway.

Yup.

-Hal