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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Rob Gow on September 01, 2014, 04:16:31 pm

Title: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Rob Gow on September 01, 2014, 04:16:31 pm
RM16AI & RM32AI

http://presonus.com/products/StudioLive-RM-Series

http://youtu.be/8DDYxZua3JU

Presonus StudioLive™ RM32AI Active Integration™ 32x16x3 Rack Mount Digital Mixer

- Fully recallable mixer
- 32 locking XLR inputs with recallable XMAX™ Class A mic preamps and +48V phantom power
- 16 XLR line outputs on the front, mirrored on rear-panel DB25 jack
- 3 XLR main outputs (left, right, mono) with analog trim pots
- 32 LED meter grid
- 32 internal channels
- 25 mix buses
- 16 aux mix buses
- 3 main mix buses (left, right, mono)
- 4 internal FX buses (2 reverb, 2 delay)
- Stereo solo bus
- Fat Channel signal processing on all input channels and all buses, with 4-band parametric EQ, compressor, gate, limiter, and more
- 52x34 direct digital FireWire recording interface
- UC-Surface™ battle-ready, live mixing and control software
- Designed specifically for live sound mixing
- Multiplatform support for Mac®, Windows®, and iPad®
- Windows 8 multi-touch-compatible for large touchscreen mixing
- Contextual-based navigation for quick, intuitive access to all mixing functions
- Compatible with free QMix™-AI personal monitoring control app for iPhone®/iPod® touch
- Complete solution: Includes Capture™ live-recording software and Studio One® Artist DAW for Mac and Windows, and Nimbit® account for online music promotion and distribution.
- USB jack and included Wi-Fi LAN adapter provides wireless control
- 2 FireWire S800 ports, 1 Ethernet control port, and S/PDIF digital output
- Option card slot for future expansion, Thunderbolt, Dante, and AVB cards coming soon
- Up to 96 kHz operation
- Front-panel Mute All button temporarily mutes all inputs and outputs
- Stereo tape input (RCA jacks)
- Headphone output with volume knob and selectable source
- +48V Meters button to display phantom power assignment on the meter grid
- 1x1 MIDI interface
- 4U rackmount
- Extensive library of tutorials and downloads
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 01, 2014, 04:34:12 pm
This is an "I told you so" moment for me.

For all those who wanted motorized faders, I have maintained all along that the better course looking to the future would be a fader-less model.

Here they go.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on September 01, 2014, 04:59:22 pm
When you have a bunch of lemons you need to make lemonade.

I see control surfaces being separate from computing engines, so folks who want WYSIWYG moving faders, and are willing to pay for them can have them.

I have been predicting something like google glass and a game boy glove for a decade.

The cost in a digital console is not the guts but the 1/O and controls.

JR

PS: Love those SOTA class A mic preamps ??? Old transistor radios were class A.

Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: frank kayser on September 01, 2014, 05:16:22 pm
When you have a bunch of lemons you need to make lemonade.
Easy for me to sit on the sidelines, but I would be remiss if I did not hammer them for the choice of Firewire 800 as the default communication protocol.  Really, what has Firewire native anymore?  Apple via Thunderbolt?


Still - a step forward with the recallable preamps. (kind of an obvious response to  a "no buttons" face)
And they do have expansion slots.  Will any of those cards work with UC or Capture?


I hear Apple is coming out with a large-format iPad.  Wonder where that'll take us?
And UC running under Windows 8?  (I assume wireless (no firewire?))


Hmmm...  Might be a candidate for the club instead of the Mackie 1608...


frank
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Bolt on September 01, 2014, 06:17:46 pm
I thought the choice of Firewire was questionable as well.

Interesting move to go entirely fader-less.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Bob Leonard on September 01, 2014, 07:23:21 pm
Blah, blah, blah. So now you only need to worry about bringing a spare interface and backup for your Windows 8 system along with a pair of 27" screens so you can actually use it. Good touch screens are not cheap, cheap touch screens are not good. By the time you've purchased good hardware to use their interface your into any of the boards that already exist. And I applaud their feature set, but you better have plenty of CPU if your going to use most of those features at the same time.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Brian Jojade on September 01, 2014, 07:26:35 pm
Easy for me to sit on the sidelines, but I would be remiss if I did not hammer them for the choice of Firewire 800 as the default communication protocol.  Really, what has Firewire native anymore?  Apple via Thunderbolt?

If you look at the brochure graphics, they use a 2008 (or earlier) vintage MacBook Pro in the graphics.

I find it odd that all of the IO is on the front.  If you're going to rack this unit, it would be nice if the outputs were on the back to patch to the rest of your gear inside the same rack. If you're using powered speakers, I guess having the outputs on the front would be handy. Mirroring the main outputs would have been nice though.

I'm curious to see the price point that they come up with on this unit.  It's a fairly close comparison to the X32 rack, although not as much i/o, and not usable without an external control device.

As things progress, I hope to see more stuff work like the iLive product.  All processing is done in the stage box, but still have the option to have a control surface or multiple surfaces somewhere on the network.  Lose a network connection and things keep going with no audio drop out.  There's no reason for audio signal to go to FOH and back.

While iPad mixing is handy, it is still better to have physical controls.  Much easier to react when there's a knob that you can feel versus sliding on a screen.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: frank kayser on September 01, 2014, 07:31:31 pm
Blah, blah, blah. So now you only need to worry about bringing a spare interface and backup for your Windows 8 system along with a pair of 27" screens so you can actually use it. Good touch screens are not cheap, cheap touch screens are not good. By the time you've purchased good hardware to use their interface your into any of the boards that already exist. And I applaud their feature set, but you better have plenty of CPU if your going to use most of those features at the same time.
Yeah, but Bob, what would we need a 27" screen when we have a perfectly good iPhone 2 (though the screen is a bit shattered...)  As far as spares, just throw a Mackie 1604 in the trunk and you're good to go!  ;D
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Olewiler on September 01, 2014, 08:11:54 pm
Self edit.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Chuck Simon on September 01, 2014, 08:14:34 pm
Well I already mix the majority of my gigs on an Ipad, so I am definitely interested!

It seems like it would be easy enough for Presonus or someone else to design a control surface connected via cat5  for an iLive type interface for those who dislike touch panels.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Thomas Le on September 01, 2014, 08:41:13 pm
Well done PreSonus, great looking unit there, now lets play the price guessing game!

I'm estimating X32 rack? ;)

Edit: Whoops, I've duplicated Brian's post. Sorry!
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Bolt on September 01, 2014, 09:32:29 pm
Well done PreSonus, great looking unit there, now lets play the price guessing game!

I'm estimating X32 rack? ;)

Edit: Whoops, I've duplicated Brian's post. Sorry!

Rumor is $1999.95 for the RM32AI and $1399.95 for the RM16AI.

Close in price to the X32 Rack.

Close enough for many who would never purchase anything from Behringer, but are open to the idea of mixing on a tablet.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Mike Sullivan on September 01, 2014, 09:41:38 pm
This could be a game changer, or it could be less than expected.  Having 32 in's and 16 dedicated mix out's PLUS L/R/Mono outs does open quite a door for them, especially for those bands that have upwards of 8 stereo IEM's. And of course the recallable pre's finally put them up with everyone else.  As long as the new AI DSP is better than the original Studiolive's (When I switched back to my Studiolive after using the X32 and the Performer on shows, the EQ didn't seem to sound as great IMHO) then I think this has a chance in certain markets.  I still think the Studiolive has one of the best monitor control interfaces out of the lower tiers, thanks to the Qmix app.

Now, as everyone has said, the real question is, how hurt is your wallet going to be?  If the price point is reasonable, it may be worth looking at.  Probably still not going to be a rider-friendly board, but a cool toy nonetheless.

Rumor is $1999.95 for the RM32AI and $1399.95 for the RM16AI.

Close in price to the X32 Rack.

Close enough for many who would never purchase anything from Behringer, but are open to the idea of mixing on a tablet.

Any rumors about the UC Surface prices by chance?  Even though the iPad would work fine, the surface does make it look extremely interesting.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Craig Leerman on September 01, 2014, 11:32:06 pm
PreSonus is really stepping up their game. Their new series of speakers (voiced by Dave Gunness and Fulcrum Acoustics) sound fantastic, and the company just brought WorxAudio into the fold. The TrueLine  V5 from WorxAudio is one of the nicest ultra compact systems I have heard.

PreSonus is also getting into Dante in a big way with cards for the consoles and even speakers. I think the FireWire ports won't get used much after the Dante cards get released. You can just hook up a computer running the Virtual Sound card into the Dante network for record and playback.

While I do like faders, I have been mixing on an iPad remotely connected to a console for a while now and have come to terms with the future.  For a bigger display less that a grand buys you an all-in-one desktop computer with a 22" or larger touchscreen. I'm sure those prices will drop by Xmas.

Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Brian Wynn on September 01, 2014, 11:35:32 pm
Well Presonus has done it again!  Came out with another completely useless product.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Brian Jojade on September 01, 2014, 11:41:45 pm
Well Presonus has done it again!  Came out with another completely useless product.

Not useless at all.  AFAIK, this is the only direct competitor to the X32 rack that's been announced.

For bands that set it and forget it, the iPad interface is all you really need.  For anything else, a surface is far superior.  Maybe someone will build a universal surface that can control anyone else's brains.  Then the world will change.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Richard Turner on September 01, 2014, 11:50:57 pm
Battle ready?

What are we supposed to fight with it?


SO where does the magic happen, is this a stand alone piece as in rack box plus ipad and off and running? or does it need a corei7 computer attached to do its thing?
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Chuck Simon on September 02, 2014, 01:24:40 am
Well Presonus has done it again!  Came out with another completely useless product.

You do realize that thousands of people use their "worthless" products  to earn money, or are you completely clueless?
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Brian Wynn on September 02, 2014, 01:38:01 am
You do realize that thousands of people use their "worthless" products  to earn money, or are you completely clueless?

They are worthless to me because.
1  Doesn't have a real surface
2  Im sure it sounds as bad as the other SL mixers
3  It operates on windows 8 so it has to suck
4  All the I/O is on the stage
5  No monitoring at the mix position
6  No front panel controls (when the iPad gets broken at the gig or the battery dies)
Im sure once I put my hands on it the list will grow.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Robert Lofgren on September 02, 2014, 03:19:44 am
Rumor is $1999.95 for the RM32AI and $1399.95 for the RM16AI.

The rm16ai only have 8 auxes this means just 4 stereo iem's and no other monitor outputs so the rm32ai will be the rm16ai biggest competitor.

With only $600 difference (probably less in reality!) most people would probably buy the rm32ai even ift it's an overkill and the rm16ai will have a hard time mostly sitting on the shelfs.

It looks like they've removed the line inputs and inserts so some studio users that uses the other studiolives might become upset.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 02, 2014, 03:25:15 am
They are worthless to me because.
1  Doesn't have a real surface
2  Im sure it sounds as bad as the other SL mixers
3  It operates on windows 8 so it has to suck
4  All the I/O is on the stage
5  No monitoring at the mix position
6  No front panel controls (when the iPad gets broken at the gig or the battery dies)
Im sure once I put my hands on it the list will grow.

1 - Hardly makes it worthless,
2 - Personal opinion (never owned one, used many.  Never had one that sounded worse than the band I was working for)
3 - Have you ever used windows 8 for any length of time?  If you have (especially 8.1) I really doubt you would say this.  It is the most stable and fastest Windows OS ever.  The UI was a big leap but it is clear MS is committed to it and as I said 8.1 huge improvement.  I would never go back to Win 7
4 - I like that, I often use an S16 as a snake and don't even touch the inputs on the x32 (We only have one rack and I don't like using it)
5 - That is a big issue
6 - We need to understand the architecture.  I hope the show goes on even if the surface takes a dump.  What kind of CPU will it really require?  Will you be able to run a Surface tablet as a backup?

As far as good touch screens, they are not cheap but much less than a large format iPad.  And you can update the computer without trashing the display.

The Elo 2740 is a 27" high impact kiosk level touch screen (10 point) for under $800

Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 02, 2014, 04:00:45 am
Just learning the new Win 8 Metro Tapatalk.  Sorry for the second post.

Anyway...I certainly am guilty of not paying attention.

How did we make the assumption that the host processor on the control surface is required for the device to function?

It supports Windows 8, it clearly also supports iPad as they show one.  The Windows 8 multitouch would bring some advantages.  You are free to use what you want.

I am committed to my platform but somebody needed to objectively defend these things.

Announcement videos look cool but it will be interesting to see how the final product fleshes out.  One of the disadvantages to anyone coming late to the party is Behringer has 2 years of maturity in their software.  You can't just go out and but that experience no matter how good your developers are.



Sent from my To Be Filled By O.E.M. using Tapatalk
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Steve M Smith on September 02, 2014, 04:19:16 am
PS: Love those SOTA class A mic preamps ??? Old transistor radios were class A.
Just means you can't afford a second transistor!

Most things are class A - Except VOX AC30 amplifiers - despit their claims!


Steve.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Steve M Smith on September 02, 2014, 04:22:33 am
Blah, blah, blah. So now you only need to worry about bringing a spare interface and backup for your Windows 8 system along with a pair of 27" screens so you can actually use it. Good touch screens are not cheap, cheap touch screens are not good. By the time you've purchased good hardware to use their interface your into any of the boards that already exist. And I applaud their feature set, but you better have plenty of CPU if your going to use most of those features at the same time.

Yes,  That's a lot of technology to replicate moving the position of a contact on a carbon track.

A bit like people who would rather write with a stylus on a touch screen device rather than use a pencil and paper!
 
Steve.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Douglas R. Allen on September 02, 2014, 05:05:39 am
Maybe I missed it but how do you solo a channel and monitor it? Or do any monitoring of any group , L/R , effects etc? Is some audio returned down the cat5 or is no monitoring possible?

Douglas R. Allen
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 02, 2014, 06:09:36 am
It looks to me, since the headphone output is on the stage box that you would have to use and IEM set to take care of that duty.  I thought about doing this with the Mackie DL-1608 but never did it.




Sent from my To Be Filled By O.E.M. using Tapatalk
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Brian Jojade on September 02, 2014, 07:34:43 am
Announcement videos look cool but it will be interesting to see how the final product fleshes out.  One of the disadvantages to anyone coming late to the party is Behringer has 2 years of maturity in their software.  You can't just go out and but that experience no matter how good your developers are.

Actually, Presonus had a product out BEFORE Behringer did.  I can't imagine this is brand new software, but was built upon the software for the existing StudioLive products.  All they did was take the physical controls off of the mixer and package the unit in a 19" rack. (and add digitally controlled preamps)
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: David Parker on September 02, 2014, 08:52:32 am
the new touch control mixers are going to make my LS9 worthless when I get ready to sell it
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: John Penkala on September 02, 2014, 09:00:06 am
If you look at the brochure graphics, they use a 2008 (or earlier) vintage MacBook Pro in the graphics.

I find it odd that all of the IO is on the front.  If you're going to rack this unit, it would be nice if the outputs were on the back to patch to the rest of your gear inside the same rack. If you're using powered speakers, I guess having the outputs on the front would be handy. Mirroring the main outputs would have been nice though.

I'm curious to see the price point that they come up with on this unit.  It's a fairly close comparison to the X32 rack, although not as much i/o, and not usable without an external control device.

As things progress, I hope to see more stuff work like the iLive product.  All processing is done in the stage box, but still have the option to have a control surface or multiple surfaces somewhere on the network.  Lose a network connection and things keep going with no audio drop out.  There's no reason for audio signal to go to FOH and back.

While iPad mixing is handy, it is still better to have physical controls.  Much easier to react when there's a knob that you can feel versus sliding on a screen.

At least with a Behringer X32 Rack if your wireless connection or connected computer go down, you have a set of front panel controls. To me, this is like an X32 rack with a better UI and larger FW I/O capacity. I am curious to see what the channel count is of the Dante card, 32x32 or 64x64?
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on September 02, 2014, 10:19:03 am
Just means you can't afford a second transistor!

Most things are class A - Except VOX AC30 amplifiers - despit their claims!


Steve.

Huh? Most things AFAIK are "not" considered class A. In complex compound circuitry the class of operation is usually describing the output stage as that consumes the most power and characterizes behavior interfacing with the outside world.

If they are using one of the modern digitally controlled mic preamp ICs they are both (TI and THAT) class AB (output stage) AFAIK.

If they are taking artistic license with how they define class A, then all the other manufacturers using those same chip sets are class A too.

This is a minor quibble but revealing of how they think and expect their customers to think.

JR

Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Nick Davis on September 02, 2014, 11:22:42 am
It is in their product brochure- seems to simply be the Ai in rack form - a bit pricey
 http://eadox.com/EAwebPubDocs/PLretail/PreSonus_sep14_retail.pdf (http://eadox.com/EAwebPubDocs/PLretail/PreSonus_sep14_retail.pdf)

Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Tommy Peel on September 02, 2014, 11:55:39 am
It is in their product brochure- seems to simply be the Ai in rack form - a bit pricey
 http://eadox.com/EAwebPubDocs/PLretail/PreSonus_sep14_retail.pdf (http://eadox.com/EAwebPubDocs/PLretail/PreSonus_sep14_retail.pdf)
To save people from having to download the PDF:
(http://i.imgur.com/k8WU1DD.png)
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: brian maddox on September 02, 2014, 12:11:12 pm
the new touch control mixers are going to make my LS9 worthless when I get ready to sell it

you're basically already there.

i just sold two LS9-32s within six weeks of each other.  The first one fetched 4600.  the second 3250.  There were some mitigating factors in that, but it's still a fact that the value of LS9s is plummeting.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Olewiler on September 02, 2014, 01:41:57 pm
Maybe I missed it but how do you solo a channel and monitor it? Or do any monitoring of any group , L/R , effects etc? Is some audio returned down the cat5 or is no monitoring possible?

Douglas R. Allen

Apparently you don't. Just like any other board you leave on stage when you mix exclusively with a tablet.  Seems to me that anyone planning on having a desk at FOH probably wouldn't be looking at this in the 1st place. Target audience is more like DL1608 users looking to expand/upgrade.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Bob Leonard on September 02, 2014, 02:26:18 pm
$2750, maybe $2300 street, plus the cost of the controlling system, and the cost of the touch screen, and all that to beta test a new product. And please, don't say "But I already own the Ipad."
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Tommy Peel on September 02, 2014, 02:47:03 pm
$2750, maybe $2300 street, plus the cost of the controlling system, and the cost of the touch screen, and all that to beta test a new product. And please, don't say "But I already own the Ipad."

Yeah... They seem overpriced to me compared to the x32 Rack. You can get the x32 Rack($1200 list) and an S16($900 list) for quite a bit less than the Presonus 32ch version and at least they've been out a little while.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 02, 2014, 03:06:03 pm
Just got the weekly from B&H and the 32 rack lists for $1999.95 on pre-order.


Personally, I prefer the 36DD rack myself...
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Thomas Le on September 02, 2014, 03:32:27 pm
Confirmed Dick's first post.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1073959-REG/presonus_slrm32_ai_studiolive_rm32ai_rackmount_digital.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1073959-REG/presonus_slrm32_ai_studiolive_rm32ai_rackmount_digital.html)
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Tommy Peel on September 02, 2014, 03:39:18 pm
Confirmed Dick's post.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1073959-REG/presonus_slrm32_ai_studiolive_rm32ai_rackmount_digital.html

Just got the weekly from B&H and the 32 rack lists for $1999.95 on pre-order.


Personally, I prefer the 36DD rack myself...
Well that's a much better price than $2700 and less than the x32 Rack expanded to 32chs. It'll be interesting to see some comparisons when it releases. I like that more companies are making products like this; it should get very interesting if Soundcraft and A&H join the party.
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/02/9362b8ffb01f67d761c393ef00468864.jpg)

Sent from my Moto X (XT1053) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Robert Patch on September 02, 2014, 04:06:00 pm
Just got the weekly from B&H and the 32 rack lists for $1999.95 on pre-order.


Personally, I prefer the 36DD rack myself...

 :) :)
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Steve M Smith on September 02, 2014, 05:07:32 pm
Confirmed Dick's post.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1073959-REG/presonus_slrm32_ai_studiolive_rm32ai_rackmount_digital.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1073959-REG/presonus_slrm32_ai_studiolive_rm32ai_rackmount_digital.html)

Yes, very interesting.  But how about a link for the second part of his post?!!


Steve.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Alec Spence on September 02, 2014, 05:08:26 pm
Er, Android anyone...?
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Tommy Peel on September 02, 2014, 05:12:14 pm
Er, Android anyone...?
Yeah... It seems that all audio companies hate Android. The only mixer with Android mixing is the x32 and it's an unofficial(but quite good) app.

Sent from my Moto X (XT1053) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 02, 2014, 05:17:46 pm
Yes, very interesting.  But how about a link for the second part of his post?!!


Steve.

Google 'em...
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Brian Jojade on September 02, 2014, 06:25:18 pm
Yeah... They seem overpriced to me compared to the x32 Rack. You can get the x32 Rack($1200 list) and an S16($900 list) for quite a bit less than the Presonus 32ch version and at least they've been out a little while.

You're confusing List and MAP.  The prices you see online are the MAP (minimum advertised Price) which is often shown as a discount off of list price.  Nobody outside of government or big business without a clue pays list price for audio gear. :)

The pricing of the Presonus system is extremely comparable to the X32 Rack on all fronts.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Brian Jojade on September 02, 2014, 06:28:57 pm
Yeah... It seems that all audio companies hate Android. The only mixer with Android mixing is the x32 and it's an unofficial(but quite good) app.

Sent from my Moto X (XT1053) using Tapatalk

And that's with good reason.  The iPad has by far and away a much higher marketshare of tablets than everyone else combined.  If you start playing with Android stuff, you either have to pick which devices you're going to be compatible with, leaving out weaker models, or you have to cut your feature set to be compatible with the lowest common denominator.  It's MUCH higher to develop that way, and for a smaller market.  It's no wonder the iPad is the platform of choice.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Bob Leonard on September 02, 2014, 06:30:08 pm
Just got the weekly from B&H and the 32 rack lists for $1999.95 on pre-order.


Personally, I prefer the 36DD rack myself...

That's not the list price Dick.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Cailen Waddell on September 02, 2014, 06:55:37 pm

You're confusing List and MAP.  The prices you see online are the MAP (minimum advertised Price) which is often shown as a discount off of list price.  Nobody outside of government or big business without a clue pays list price for audio gear. :)

The pricing of the Presonus system is extremely comparable to the X32 Rack on all fronts.

I don't know about other governments, but I don't pay map much less list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Tommy Peel on September 02, 2014, 07:15:43 pm
You're confusing List and MAP.  The prices you see online are the MAP (minimum advertised Price) which is often shown as a discount off of list price.  Nobody outside of government or big business without a clue pays list price for audio gear. :)

The pricing of the Presonus system is extremely comparable to the X32 Rack on all fronts.
My bad, thanks for the clarification.

Sent from my Moto X (XT1053) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Tommy Peel on September 02, 2014, 07:28:16 pm


And that's with good reason.  The iPad has by far and away a much higher marketshare of tablets than everyone else combined.  If you start playing with Android stuff, you either have to pick which devices you're going to be compatible with, leaving out weaker models, or you have to cut your feature set to be compatible with the lowest common denominator.  It's MUCH higher to develop that way, and for a smaller market.  It's no wonder the iPad is the platform of choice.

Harder to develop, yes, but it's not impossible. I would say that most apps on the Play Store don't try to cater to low end devices; most devs pick a hardware level they want to support and don't worry about all the crap hardware out there. Just making an app only support Jelly Bean(4.1+) and above you cull out a bunch of old junk devices. I would say that more of a market would appear if they started supporting Android. IMO, Android is much easier to develop for than it was a few years ago. If they really want to weed out older hardware just make it support KitKat(4.4) and above; only very new devices run it at the moment.

Sent from my Moto X (XT1053) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 02, 2014, 08:08:14 pm
Android apps have to be built in the Java IDE if the native app is not java porting it to Android is brutal.  I am not an Apple fan but I do understand.

Supporting the Windows 8.1 tablet environment is a great idea since it is a write once run many across the desktop, Intel binary pads and the RT pads.




Sent from my To Be Filled By O.E.M. using Tapatalk
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Thomas Le on September 02, 2014, 09:04:20 pm
Sweetwater has a unit already for a "first look".

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SLRM32AI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvutmfM7FGc
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Bolt on September 02, 2014, 09:54:16 pm
Android has the majority of the tablet market by quite a bit (not even close):  http://www.statista.com/statistics/273840/global-market-share-of-tablet-operating-systems-since-2010/

When I got my X32 Rack it made me sick to pay $320 for an iPad Mini knowing that there were less expensive and more capable Android tablets out there.

While there are plenty of use cases where this new Presonus mixer will not be very useful, there are plenty of use cases where it will.

In the YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSq8pnXCc7Y&feature=em-uploademail

The software looks quite good.  The usability of the software is going to be the next big battle ground IMHO.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Jeremy Young on September 02, 2014, 10:26:57 pm
the new touch control mixers are going to make my LS9 worthless when I get ready to sell it

and when that happens i'll offer you double! (nothing)

I'll keep using my DL1608, and keep waiting for an "upgrade" that makes sense for where I see my growth heading.  For what it's worth, I'd buy an X32 just to be able to put my hands on some faders and gain some I/O.  Been even thinking about sourcing an 01v96 as a backup to my DL1608, but I've known 3 owners who experienced the "random fader climb" as I like to call it.

From my experiences with Presonus to date, they will never get another cent of my money.  But that's a rant for another day....
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Bob Leonard on September 02, 2014, 11:44:26 pm
The Sweetwater overview is as always well done. I see a very well done interface to the physical unit, and I see plenty of functionality. Nice job Presonus. What I also see is many of the features that I have with my Cubase recording system, Sonar X3 system, and my Expression remote software. Nothing being done here is earth shaking IMO, but well done none the less.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Rob Gow on September 03, 2014, 03:28:41 am
Here's a video that's a little more in depth.

http://youtu.be/GSq8pnXCc7Y
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Chuck Simon on September 03, 2014, 12:43:32 pm
Here's a video that's a little more in depth.

http://youtu.be/GSq8pnXCc7Y

Very nice!
Title: Mackie DLR 32R just announced
Post by: Craig Leerman on September 03, 2014, 02:53:37 pm


Just got this in my mail today from Mackie. Looks like they will intro their rack mount mixer on October 15th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaUDzps61T0&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Thomas Le on September 03, 2014, 04:17:33 pm

Just got this in my mail today from Mackie. Looks like they will intro their rack mount mixer on October 15th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaUDzps61T0&feature=youtu.be

That was quick, conjuring a short video in response maybe? or they had it all along?

There's going to be alot of scrolling on the iPad unless they have buttons to jump between channel sets...
Title: Re: Mackie DLR 32R just announced
Post by: Scott Olewiler on September 03, 2014, 04:26:23 pm

Just got this in my mail today from Mackie. Looks like they will intro their rack mount mixer on October 15th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaUDzps61T0&feature=youtu.be
I saw enough to see that they also put the Inputs/Outputs on the front.  WTF?   That will be a PITA for everyone who leaves their rack mounted mixer always connected to their monitor amps and their DSP in the same rack.  I also leave both my stage snakes hooked up to my mixer as well.  The ensuing rat's nest of cabling in the front of the rack now will be real appealing.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: John Roll on September 03, 2014, 04:29:02 pm
Apparently you don't. Just like any other board you leave on stage when you mix exclusively with a tablet.  Seems to me that anyone planning on having a desk at FOH probably wouldn't be looking at this in the 1st place. Target audience is more like DL1608 users looking to expand/upgrade.

What about using one of these:
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/wireless-headphones (http://en-us.sennheiser.com/wireless-headphones)

or one of the many offerings for IEMs
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: g'bye, Dick Rees on September 03, 2014, 04:31:20 pm
What about using one of these:
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/wireless-headphones (http://en-us.sennheiser.com/wireless-headphones)

or one of the many offerings for IEMs

I'm just beginning to use Sennheiser IEM's.  The headphones are for listening to TV on your couch.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Tommy Peel on September 03, 2014, 04:36:18 pm
I saw enough to see that they also put the Inputs/Outputs on the front.  WTF?   That will be a PITA for everyone who leaves their rack mounted mixer always connected to their monitor amps and their DSP in the same rack.  I also leave both my stage snakes hooked up to my mixer as well.  The ensuing rat's nest of cabling in the front of the rack now will be real appealing.
I imagine they'd have complaints either way... If you're just hooking up the mixer to some powered speakers with xlr cables having the outputs on the front with the inputs is great. The best solution would be to have all outputs mirrored on front and back with the inputs on one side or the other. I like Presonus's idea of putting the aux outputs on the back with DSUB connectors.

Sent from my Moto X (XT1053) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Olewiler on September 03, 2014, 05:24:59 pm
I imagine they'd have complaints either way... If you're just hooking up the mixer to some powered speakers with xlr cables having the outputs on the front with the inputs is great. The best solution would be to have all outputs mirrored on front and back with the inputs on one side or the other. I like Presonus's idea of putting the aux outputs on the back with DSUB connectors.

Sent from my Moto X (XT1053) using Tapatalk

Yeah that's a good point. If was just using powered speakers with built in DSP, I'd at least want the outputs on the front.  And if I was plugging in mic cables or a snake at every show I'd want the inputs in the front. I'm probably in the minority.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Tommy Peel on September 03, 2014, 05:37:04 pm
Yeah that's a good point. If was just using powered speakers with built in DSP, I'd at least want the outputs on the front.  And if I was plugging in mic cables or a snake at every show I'd want the inputs in the front. I'm probably in the minority.

Yeah, there are good arguments for both ways. Be glad you don't have to plug into this setup every week:
(http://i.imgur.com/PVxQpaS.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/VXcZOqs.jpg)

All my connections are facing down so the mixer will fit in my case. My wireing is slightly neater than that now; that's a pic I took a while back. The snake isn't connected either; when it's connected there are 16 xlr connectors hanging down from the connection pod.

I'd love to make a patch panel or mass disconnect but I can't justify the cost. On a side note I hope Mackie doesn't use a ton of TRS connections on their new board; their a PITA when you have an all XLR snake.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: dave briar on September 03, 2014, 06:23:04 pm
What about using one of these:
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/wireless-headphones (http://en-us.sennheiser.com/wireless-headphones)

or one of the many offerings for IEMs
I looked into Senn wireless headphones as possible options for soloing channels remotely while mixing from iPad but the product descriptions have this at the bottom:

note while the sound quaity of these headphones is fantastic for any type of music, they were not designed for use while recording/tracking and monitoring or musical instrument practice (performer wears the headphones while playing).

Senn support confirms that latency is the reason.  Bummer, as it would be a great solution.   IEMs work but are much more spendy.
  ..dave
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Dave Dermont on September 03, 2014, 10:21:26 pm
RM16AI & RM32AI

http://presonus.com/products/StudioLive-RM-Series

http://youtu.be/8DDYxZua3JU

Presonus StudioLive™ RM32AI Active Integration™ 32x16x3 Rack Mount Digital Mixer

- Fully recallable mixer
- 32 locking XLR inputs with recallable XMAX™ Class A mic preamps and +48V phantom power
- 16 XLR line outputs on the front, mirrored on rear-panel DB25 jack
- 3 XLR main outputs (left, right, mono) with analog trim pots
- 32 LED meter grid
- 32 internal channels
- 25 mix buses
- 16 aux mix buses
- 3 main mix buses (left, right, mono)
- 4 internal FX buses (2 reverb, 2 delay)
- Stereo solo bus
- Fat Channel signal processing on all input channels and all buses, with 4-band parametric EQ, compressor, gate, limiter, and more
- 52x34 direct digital FireWire recording interface
- UC-Surface™ battle-ready, live mixing and control software
- Designed specifically for live sound mixing
- Multiplatform support for Mac®, Windows®, and iPad®
- Windows 8 multi-touch-compatible for large touchscreen mixing
- Contextual-based navigation for quick, intuitive access to all mixing functions
- Compatible with free QMix™-AI personal monitoring control app for iPhone®/iPod® touch
- Complete solution: Includes Capture™ live-recording software and Studio One® Artist DAW for Mac and Windows, and Nimbit® account for online music promotion and distribution.
- USB jack and included Wi-Fi LAN adapter provides wireless control
- 2 FireWire S800 ports, 1 Ethernet control port, and S/PDIF digital output
- Option card slot for future expansion, Thunderbolt, Dante, and AVB cards coming soon
- Up to 96 kHz operation
- Front-panel Mute All button temporarily mutes all inputs and outputs
- Stereo tape input (RCA jacks)
- Headphone output with volume knob and selectable source
- +48V Meters button to display phantom power assignment on the meter grid
- 1x1 MIDI interface
- 4U rackmount
- Extensive library of tutorials and downloads

The comprehensive I/O, wireless connectivity, recallable preamps, and auxes by the dozen are really nice. However, as someone who has used a 24.4.2 extensively since it has been available, I am more concerned with how (or even, if) they have addressed the unresponsive EQ, and mediocre-at-best effects and dynamics processing.

The Behringer X32 is appearing in places that would have been unthinkable a year ago. How far that snowball will roll is anyone's guess.

The Presonus has carved out a niche in the mix-the-band-from-stage world, but has not gained much traction with "pro" users, even at entry level. It's simply not that impressive initially, and the warts grow bigger and uglier with each use.

That said, I will probably be behind one this weekend, and the dance floor will be packed with happy customers.

It almost reminds me of the Electronic Keyboard market of the early 80's. 

Almost.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 04, 2014, 12:00:51 am

That said, I will probably be behind one this weekend, and the dance floor will be packed with happy customers.

It almost reminds me of the Electronic Keyboard market of the early 80's. 

Almost.

Yeah, I was sooo glad to not be a keyboard player back then.  At least with these new mixers you won't have to buy 3 new units every year because of "new sounds".
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Tim Padrick on September 04, 2014, 12:19:47 am
A friend was recently quoted $2250 for an X32 console.  Still seems the way to go to me.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Justice C. Bigler on September 04, 2014, 01:27:23 am
How very, very fortuitous. I just happen to be looking for a remotely controlled rack mount digital console with more than 8 inputs.


Maybe in three years when this project goes live, a competing sound company will have a better product on the market. But this will fill the budget place holder for the time being.  ;D
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Holtzman on September 04, 2014, 02:47:12 am
I looked into Senn wireless headphones as possible options for soloing channels remotely while mixing from iPad but the product descriptions have this at the bottom:

note while the sound quaity of these headphones is fantastic for any type of music, they were not designed for use while recording/tracking and monitoring or musical instrument practice (performer wears the headphones while playing).

Senn support confirms that latency is the reason.  Bummer, as it would be a great solution.   IEMs work but are much more spendy.
  ..dave

 I would have posted a naked picture of my wife before I owned that photo (seriously running and ducking)
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Bolt on September 04, 2014, 08:11:52 pm
The comprehensive I/O, wireless connectivity, recallable preamps, and auxes by the dozen are really nice. However, as someone who has used a 24.4.2 extensively since it has been available, I am more concerned with how (or even, if) they have addressed the unresponsive EQ, and mediocre-at-best effects and dynamics processing.

The Behringer X32 is appearing in places that would have been unthinkable a year ago. How far that snowball will roll is anyone's guess.

The Presonus has carved out a niche in the mix-the-band-from-stage world, but has not gained much traction with "pro" users, even at entry level. It's simply not that impressive initially, and the warts grow bigger and uglier with each use.

That said, I will probably be behind one this weekend, and the dance floor will be packed with happy customers.

It almost reminds me of the Electronic Keyboard market of the early 80's. 

Almost.
Dave,

I have had similar comments on the limitations of the SL line and the average efx (specifically the verbs).  My experience does not extend to the new AI mixers though, so it is possible that they have improved the efx.  Have you mixed on the AI as well as the original SL to confirm or deny the quality of the efx in the AI.

I own an X32 Rack and feel that the verbs on it are quite good compared to external verbs I am familiar with (M-One XL and MPX550).

As for Presonus's "Mix the band from stage crowd", I agree that this was their strong point.  The full meter bridge and easily accessible channel faders for all channels made it a great tool when it was introduced (really had no competition at all at that price point).

Presonus also pioneered one of the best remote applications for the SL .... again being years ahead of the competition.

I am thinking that the pickins are't as easy today as they were when the original SL was introduced.  This product seems like a direct competitor to the X32 Rack.  The X32 Rack is a pretty serious piece of gear that can be had for around $1K. 

As you point out, the stain of the word "Behringer" has mostly worn off with respect to the X32 line, but still, I expect there will be some portion of the market that would love this particular work flow without the word "Behringer" on the product (I know a few people that would meet this criteria).  This may well provide a decent number of sales for Presonus.

The new app looks pretty nice.  Hopefully it will be well thought out all the way through.  Presonus certainly has enough experience in this area to come up with a very good app on the tablet.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Jonathan Betts on September 04, 2014, 08:28:40 pm
Anyone know if they improved upon the HPF in the AI series mixers? IMO, 6db  octave(Studio Live series) is pretty useless.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Chuck Simon on September 04, 2014, 10:53:10 pm
Anyone know if they improved upon the HPF in the AI series mixers? IMO, 6db  octave(Studio Live series) is pretty useless.

I agree and that's something SL users have been requesting for a long time.  Hopefully the guys at Presonus will use this as an opportunity to correct that problem.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Scott Olewiler on September 05, 2014, 08:30:57 am

Maybe in three years when this project goes live, a competing sound company will have a better product on the market.

You mean like the x32 Rack? 
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Robert Lofgren on September 05, 2014, 02:51:56 pm
Anyone know if they improved upon the HPF in the AI series mixers? IMO, 6db  octave(Studio Live series) is pretty useless.
In the new mixers it's 12dB/oct.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Jeff Carter on September 05, 2014, 04:18:48 pm
In the new mixers it's 12dB/oct.

That's less useless, I guess.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Samuel Rees on September 05, 2014, 04:31:38 pm
So weird. Even the 18/db ones on the Si desks feels a little shallow to me.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Tim McCulloch on September 05, 2014, 06:29:30 pm
So weird. Even the 18/db ones on the Si desks feels a little shallow to me.

Indeed.  I've gotten used to the 24dB/oct on the AVID Venue desks and really, really like it.  Since this is presumably a firmware thing, I'm not sure why it can't be a configuration option in almost any brand of mixer.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Robert Lofgren on September 06, 2014, 04:28:45 am
Indeed.  I've gotten used to the 24dB/oct on the AVID Venue desks and really, really like it.  Since this is presumably a firmware thing, I'm not sure why it can't be a configuration option in almost any brand of mixer.
Steeper slope means more dsp power needed. Multiply that with all the numbers of channels to process and your dsp might choke or not leave room for other goodies.

They state that the dsp is so powerfull that you now have two fat per channel. I very much doubt that they both are active at the same time but rather a quick snapshop that is recallable and therefor not taking up any dsp power.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Bob Leonard on September 06, 2014, 08:59:56 am
Indeed.  I've gotten used to the 24dB/oct on the AVID Venue desks and really, really like it.  Since this is presumably a firmware thing, I'm not sure why it can't be a configuration option in almost any brand of mixer.

My APB had a 12db per octave HPF and it was more than usable always producing great results. I find the same to be true of the HPF on the SI I own and so now I wonder if, and feel that, frequency response has a much to do with the results as the slope of the filter. I'll also say that design is the biggest factor as both the APB and Soundcraft have outstanding well designed EQ's, some other boards not so much.
Title: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Samuel Rees on September 06, 2014, 06:35:24 pm
12db / octave is fine. It's easy to get attached to the 24db octave workflow though, IMHO. 6db is just nuts :)

Glad to see a somewhat competitive product out of Presonus. Nice to see slightly smaller companies hold their ground, especially when they dropped the ball in the traditional-surface console department these last few years...
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: John Roberts {JR} on September 06, 2014, 07:07:25 pm
In my judgement the slope of the HPF is not super critical. Most of the time this is just taking out the LF garbage from channels not processing LF. Agreed -6 dB/oct is marginal, but I would not over think this.

More poles get more expensive when analog and adjustable, but for digital, not as expensive.   

JR
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Arik Semagin on September 11, 2014, 10:19:04 am
They are worthless to me because.
1  Doesn't have a real surface (So what? The whole concept is built around touchscreen. iPads and iPhones doesn't have keys and buttons either and nobody complains)
2  Im sure it sounds as bad as the other SL mixers (How one can be "sure" without even trying entirely different preamp? Or it has to suck because it has "Presonus" stamped on the front? Is it another variation of "I just can't stand Behringer name…"?)
3  It operates on windows 8 so it has to suck (It is NOT. So far core W8 was as stable as XPe (which runs on every major digital console out there, DiGiCo, Soundcraft/Studer, all AVID desks. BTW I work for Apple full-time, so no personal reasons for me to defend Windows)
4  All the I/O is on the stage (Where else they are supposed to be?)
5  No monitoring at the mix position (How about using FM link (transmitter+receiver, about $30 on eBay? Too complicated?)
6  No front panel controls (when the iPad gets broken at the gig or the battery dies) (Sound will still pass through, iPad/Surface is just a controller. I never heard about "broken" iPad unless physically damaged. If battery dies it's your fault, not iPad's, and nothing prevents you from having a backup iPad (I do)
Im sure once I put my hands on it the list will grow. (as well as list of happy users of Presonus gear who will make money with them day after day)
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: lindsay Dean on September 11, 2014, 03:04:47 pm

Looks like presonus found the nitrous
still kind of a freaky concept
what are the options if your surface fails mid show?
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Bob Cap on September 11, 2014, 05:09:53 pm
Looks like presonus found the nitrous
still kind of a freaky concept
what are the options if your surface fails mid show?

What are YOUR options if YOUR surface fails mid show now?
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: Bob Leonard on September 11, 2014, 06:55:31 pm
I would normally put my spare to work, but my surface isn't a touch screen, and to be very honest I've always bought the best I could afford, stayed away from products with problems, stayed away from being a beta test subject, and stayed away from Presonus based on the other crap they make. At this point I wouldn't give Presonus the same respect I give Behringer's X32, and don't see that changing any time soon.
Title: Re: New Presonus mixers announced:
Post by: frank kayser on September 11, 2014, 08:14:32 pm
I would normally put my spare to work, but my surface isn't a touch screen, and to be very honest I've always bought the best I could afford, stayed away from products with problems, stayed away from being a beta test subject, and stayed away from Presonus based on the other crap they make. At this point I wouldn't give Presonus the same respect I give Behringer's X32, and don't see that changing any time soon.
Ouch! (statement, not a value judgement!)


frank